Speaking with Iran and Iraq should have been the first response of a CHRISTIAN nation.
You people only know GOD when it is time to ask for money or life partner or some other fluff rubbish, as if your soul would die without money or someone to have legal sex with until death do you part.
You don’t ask GOD for discernment, forgiveness, tolerance, kindness – or even to see HIS face- anything that requires OUTPUT on your part.
THE CHRISTIAN Today is a whining me, me baby! YOU SHOULD have led the world to redemption after 9/11. Instead, you imploded, and imprisoned yourselves, trusting in man-made security instead of GOD.
I am sick of the lot of you

When I first heard about the event, I was upset, and I still have concerns, but when I read the have a modified concern. I should say that I grew up in the Mennonite Church, but some of these kinds of issues, led me to find fellowship elsewhere. My bottom line concern is that a lot of what I saw in how parts of the Mennonite Church have responded to “social issues” seems to be rooted in the fact that a lot of the leaders now, came of age in the 60′s, and seem to have rejection of authority at the root of theology. I was caught in that initially and am grateful that I was able to move on. If a person does not recognize that man outside of Christ is evil at the core, then it follows that we can think that dialogue will help cause a to change his mind and be nice to the Jews or Christians. Ahmadinejad is committed to the destruction of Israel in the same way Hitler was and if we had just talked to Hitler, we probably would have lost 7 or 8 million of God’s Chosen people. Some people would probably agree to meet with the anti-christ and try to bring ‘peace.’ I should mention that part of my motivational gifting is being a peacemaker, so do not think I am a out to stir up trouble. Blessings, Joe

Ahmadinejad’s speech at Columbia was in September 2007, not “earlier this year”. More importantly, if letting him speak on campus was so bad, wasn’t interviewing him on nationwide TV (Larry King has an interview with him this week) even worse? Why single out Columbia, where Ahmadinejad was subjected to “hard questions” just as Rev. Lynn advocates?

Let me see if I can sum up what I’m hearing Rev Lynn say: “Bush lied, People died.” Wow, doesn’t that ever get old? It’s amazing how someone is continually called a liar without a bit of proof.
“War God”. I don’t believe that God is happy and pleased when nations go to war, but the implication by Rev Lynn that God is opposed to war or that He doesn’t use it to carry out his purposes (Read the OT sometime) is not accurate. One of the most common names given to God in the Bible is the “Lord of Hosts” or more accurately the “Lord of Angel Armies.”
“war God” no. God of war and everything else, yes.

A God who thinks war is some kind of diplomacy or a good way for his favored people to take land that doesn’t belong to them is the kind of God dreamed up by ancient, backward, nationalistic, superstitious animal sacrificing primitives. As long as people believe in this kind of God there is no hope that we can bring and end to all wars forever on this planet. Only when atheists are in the majority in the world will there be an end to war and man’s cruelty to man.

I think the real issue here is not the meeting. The meeting would bother me if it were actally Christian leaders meeting. Not everything that calls itself Christian, is Christian. Notice that the Iranian prez….who stands firm on his only one way(even though it is wrong) is meeting with so called Christians who each have their own way(which most are wrong). Duh.So once again…..my concern is not the meeting…it’s who is representing the Christians.Christians are sinners that are bought by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. These are they who have made that trip to the altar and confessed they were sinners..TO GOD…….NOT A PRIEST. And have repented(turned away from there sins and went in the opposite direction). Are these Catholics? I THINK NOT. Are these Jehovah Witnesses? I THINK NOT. Are these Lutherans? I THINK NOT. Why you might ask………because they (among others) have their own way.It is not a game of picking what way suits you the best……it is going God’s way. His plan is lined out in His Holy Word. The KJV Bible. NOT the NKLV, or the NIV, or the NLT, or whatever else satan has put out there. If the “BIBLE THUMPERS” are the ones meeting with the Iranian prez…..then I will worry……but if you are sending any of the other above mentioned…..I sense no danger…………they don’t even know what they are talking about. I say these things with love…..even if you don’t believe it. To many times we are worried about being politically correct instead of that poor soul that is on it’s way to Hell. If these people that are in jail are true Christians…….they understand their fate and why it must happen. Once again……it’s in the instructions mentioned above The Holy KJV Bible.If these so called religious leaders were actually Christians…..the would understand that if Christians are in jail……they still have already been set free by believing in Jesus Christ. These religous leaders need to be concerned about the ones still in the bondage of sin…they ones who don’t know Jesus as their personnal Savior.

This kind of comment reflects the kind of good ole American cultural prejudice and willful ignorance American Christians are famous for:
Concerned Christian said: His plan is lined out in His Holy Word. The KJV Bible. NOT the NKLV, or the NIV, or the NLT, or whatever else satan has put out there.
FYI there Concerned Christian, the Bible didn’t just drop out of the sky in 1611 written in Old English. The Old Testament happened to be written in Hebrew and the New Testament in Koine Greek. What you are claiming is that all the people who live in foreign countries who have Bibles not written in English don’t have real “Holy Bibles.” The highly regarded and vastly superior translations to the KJV, the NJB, NRSV and other Catholic Bibles aren’t “Holy Bibles.” What you are really trying to say that if people don’t speak English they can’t be Christians. People have to be good KJV Bible thumping Americans to be Christians in your eyes don’t they?

That is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is that……I have sat under and also done research on how the KJV came about…..the very long process…..the scrapping of translation if it was not agreed upon by the ones translating.If you have the original scripture in Greek and Hebrew and you can read it….more power to ya. But the KJV is the only version translated from those scriptures in English. You can not take a NIV and say it is the same thing…it’s not. There is not power….try it…..set them side by side and read scripture for scripture.There are some 6000 words less in the NIV than in the KJV. There are some 2000 words less in the NKJV than the KJV. Does that not tell you something?Don’t even get me started on the Catholics. Hello the Veil was torn from TOP to BOTTOM when Jesus died on the cross. That means that I no longer need a priest to approach GOD….I can do it myself. The TOP to BOTTOM means that GOD Himself tore it….not man. There is no Purgatory….if you die unsaved, you go to hell it’s pure and simple…..no one can pray you out.The original translation of the scriptures…..the KJV pretty much clears that up. This is not some arguing ground…this is Heaven or Hell…is that not serious to anyone? Satan has , like with everyting else, taken the fear out of hell. People now say…..well if I’m going there at least my friends will be with me….yep they will…they will probably be the ones gnashing their teeth on ya. You are correct….I talk about things that a lot of people think are gibberish…..but that is exactly what Jesus said would happen. He said He would use the weak to confound the wise and that the spiritual things I speak of would be foolish to the world. God did not look at the KJV and ok it, only to have the NIV come along and say….oh…that’s right too. Along with everything else that calls itself Christian.GOD is Holy, He never changes….never. His standards have not changed. He is an AWESOME GOD. SO many people say…..if God loves me, He wouldn’t want me to give this up or that up. YES He Would……HE says “BE YE HOLY…….FOR I AM HOLY” Friend we need make sure that we are fully understanding the Creator’s instructions! I guarantee that is you accept a watered down Gospel……you are not getting what GOD intended…and GOd is no respecter of persons….He expects Everyone to get the same thing.

Concerned Christian,
You said: That is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is that……I have sat under and also done research on how the KJV came about…..the very long process…..the scrapping of translation if it was not agreed upon by the ones translating.If you have the original scripture in Greek and Hebrew and you can read it….more power to ya.
Boris says: First of all there are no original copies of any “scriptures.” We don’t have any copies of them either. All we have is copies made several centuries after the originals were written so no one has a clue what the originals even said. Second I can read both the Hebrew and Greek Bibles and I can tell you that the KJV isn’t the worst translation but it is very far from any kind of accurate translation. It was made from part of a tenth century Greek manuscript and the rest was taken from the Latin Vulgate. None of the KJV is taken from the Hebrew OT but only the translated Greek and Latin.
You said: But the KJV is the only version translated from those scriptures in English. You can not take a NIV and say it is the same thing…it’s not. There is not power….try it…..set them side by side and read scripture for scripture.There are some 6000 words less in the NIV than in the KJV. There are some 2000 words less in the NKJV than the KJV. Does that not tell you something?
Boris says: Yes, it tells us about all the words added by the KJV translators to distort what the Bible actually says in the original languages. Thankfully future translators eliminated these words and phrases. The NIV OT is taken from the Hebrew and the KJV is not. Justify that.
You said: Don’t even get me started on the Catholics. Hello the Veil was torn from TOP to BOTTOM when Jesus died on the cross. That means that I no longer need a priest to approach GOD….I can do it myself. The TOP to BOTTOM means that GOD Himself tore it….not man.
Boris says: Sure. There isn’t a shred of evidence that there even is a God or that Jesus Christ ever existed, because he didn’t. It’s all a bunch of misinterpreted mythology.
You said: There is no Purgatory….if you die unsaved, you go to hell it’s pure and simple…..no one can pray you out.The original translation of the scriptures…..the KJV pretty much clears that up. This is not some arguing ground…this is Heaven or Hell…is that not serious to anyone? Satan has , like with everyting else, taken the fear out of hell. People now say…..well if I’m going there at least my friends will be with me….yep they will…they will probably be the ones gnashing their teeth on ya.
Boris says: There is no Purgatory nor is there any hell or heaven either. There are no mentions of hell in any OT manuscripts but the KJV mentions hell 30 times in the OT. There are no mentions of hell in any NT manuscripts dated before the fifth century either. Those were all quite obviously added by the church forgers…I mean church fathers. Besides, humans are a species of ape, biological organisms, and there is no such thing as a soul that can fly off to a magical happy-land after we die. That is a life-avoidance and escapism Christian fantasy for which there isn’t shred of evidence – just like everything else the Christians try to believe in.
You said: You are correct….I talk about things that a lot of people think are gibberish…..but that is exactly what Jesus said would happen. He said He would use the weak to confound the wise and that the spiritual things I speak of would be foolish to the world.
Boris says: You talk a lot of gibberish all right. That’s because you haven’t got a clue when it comes to science and the real world. You’ve twisted your brain into a 2000 year-old pretzel trying to believe things written by ancient backward superstitious animal sacrificing primitives. No person of sense takes anything people like you say seriously. You don’t know what you are talking about.
You said: God did not look at the KJV and ok it, only to have the NIV come along and say….oh…that’s right too.
Boris says: Oh please. When exactly did God look at the KJV and give it His stamp of approval. Does the Bible say “This book approved is by God Himself?” Rather it should have a warning label that says “Warning: this book is full of fairy tales and barbaric myths. Keep out of the hands of children.”
You said: Along with everything else that calls itself Christian.GOD is Holy, He never changes….never. His standards have not changed. He is an AWESOME GOD.
Boris says: Well our standards here on earth HAVE changed considerably. Most of us now realize that all wars are evil and unnecessary. Therefore we cannot bow to an imaginary God who uses war as his principle way to get things done diplomatically.
You said: SO many people say…..if God loves me, He wouldn’t want me to give this up or that up. YES He Would……HE says “BE YE HOLY…….FOR I AM HOLY” Friend we need make sure that we are fully understanding the Creator’s instructions!
Boris says: No, people like you want us to follow YOUR instructions, which you claim come from a magic oracle from God. That claim cannot be supported and you know it NOW, if you didn’t before.
You said: I guarantee that is you accept a watered down Gospel……you are not getting what GOD intended…and GOd is no respecter of persons….He expects Everyone to get the same thing.
Boris says: If God wanted the Bible written in English then why did he have it written in two languages that He knew would die and not be spoken anymore? There was no English language when the Bible was written. Languages evolve, the Bible evolved, Christianity evolved from Paganism, and Protestantism evolved from the true Christianity Catholicism and Greek Orthodoxy as an illegitimate idiot child. Any religion based on a literal interpretation of the Bible automatically falsifies itself because the Bible is simply not true in any sense of the word.

I am a Christian woman…..and I pray for you. I thank you for your comments, they only confirm what I said. The world will call the things of God foolish. Confirmed. Science and Bible are not the same. Science is not determining age…..it’s determining whether or not fungus grows faster on white bread or wheat. I have sat under preaching…hard preaching, and my three kids and husband also. I have witnessed my 6 year old boy recognize that he is a sinner and understand that he needs forgiven. I have been on drugs…..I have been an alcoholic…..I have looked for the answers of life in the things of this world…..they are not there.They are in Christ Jesus. See….The problem is not that you don’t understand…..the problem is that you DO understand.I know that when I lay my head down at night….if I don’t wake up here….I will wake up in glory.I have peace. My friend…..you don’t have peace….and you know it.I could sit here and tell you all the things God has done for me…….and HE has been awesome….but I don’t need to prove GOD. He can take care of that himself and I believe He has already attempted with you. I just really have a problem with someone who has never read God’s word and wants to argue there is no God. In a Godless world what is there? What…..your born…….you die. Do you even understand how many things that have to be absolutely for this planet to sustain life? And you think that is by chance? In a Godless world, tell me……….How do YOU, and I’m saying YOU personally know that you should not kill someone? You would not know that unless God put it there. People who live in the remotest jungles know THOU SHALT NOT KILL. How does that happen sir? By chance? Because we were once soup….then goop? You would rather believe that millions of years ago nothing exploded then soup was formed from rocks then through lots of “Evolution” we got here RATHER than there is a Almighty Creator that made us and loves us and wants to fellowship with us while we are here…..THEN when we die He wants to invite us into an ETERNITY of Heaven? I know that this word is profound….and overused, but DUH!Satan has you and he is loving every minute of it. God is trying to reach out to you as you read these words. God created in each one of us the longing to be with Him. You long for that also…..you just have hardened you heart to it. It does not take faith to believe what you see, but to believe what you can’t see but feel. A little boy got saved…..and went to the get his hair cut. He told the barber he got saved and had Jesus living inside him. The barber told him to be quiet because he had a headache(hangover im sure)then later the little boy said it was true and that Jesus was living inside of him because he could feel Him…..so the barber said prove it…..and the little boy didn’t know what to say, so he thought. Just as bold as he could he said to the barber….do you have a headache? he said yes and the little boy said how do you know? and the barber said I can just feel it….so the little boy said prove it.This is not rocket science sir……God has made it pretty simple.You have to make you own decisions…..all I can do is pray for you. How many people who “didn’t believe in hell” are actually burning there now? I would say a pretty good portion.Have you ever made a decision and right at that split second…..you wished you had made the other choice? That’s what it will be like at that split secong between here and hell…..I promise.You will remember every aspect of event when someone spoke to you about Jesus Christ. These words will haunt you for an Eternity. Not 100 years…..not 1000 years not 1000000 years…….. ETERNITY. Have you ever been burnt? How bout that feeling from head to toe…….for ETERNITY. There is no end to it. EVER. What’s worse…….Do you have kids? Grandkids? If they have no direction…..not teaching of Jesus Christ….they will be right there next to you wondering why. DOES THAT NOT SCARE YOU TO DEATH? I would rather live like there is no God(which there is)and find out there isn’t one(once again which there is )than to live like there isn’t and find out there is!Please sir…..search….I fear for your soul.

To all here, as a Catholic, I say to you, thank you for reading the new testament–The Roman Catholic Fathers of the Church(apostles, etc) wrote it for all Christians. Also, the Jews thank you, as they wrote the old testament for you. None of the other new denominations that have appeared since Martin Luther in the 1400′s can make this claim.
Does this make all Catholics correct? Of course not silly, there are many paths to God, through Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, with the example of the angels and saints.
Again, thank you for reading his book that we wrote for you. Be careful how much you change the words of the original Catholic Bible. Be careful how you translate it. Peace be with you

Barry – I’m calling you out on the meme you reiterate that Palin said that the Iraq war is God’s will, as opposed to asking people to pray that it is God’s will. As a supposed clergyman, I would think you know what a prayer like that means.

Concerned and now very worried Christian,
You said: Do you even understand how many things that have to be absolutely for this planet to sustain life? And you think that is by chance?
Boris says: Science has very plausible explanations for the universe and everything in it. Life developed because of the right environment as we can see that it does all over the planet. Life adapts to its environment, not the other way around. You are a victim of the backwards thinking caused by your religious.
You said: My friend…..you don’t have peace….and you know it.
Boris says: I do have peace and anyone can see by your post that it is you who has no peace. You don’t know me or the first thing about atheism. Atheists decline to be as miserable as believers tell us we should be and that just tortures you doesn’t it? You just cannot face the truth that atheists are happier and more well-adjusted than Christians.
You said: DOES THAT NOT SCARE YOU TO DEATH?
Boris says: No it doesn’t scare me or any atheists because we know it isn’t true. But it scares YOU and that is the ONLY reason you are a Christian. It is an open question whether any behavior based on fear of eternal punishment can be regarded as ethical.
You said: How do YOU, and I’m saying YOU personally know that you should not kill someone?
Boris says: It doesn’t take some kind of revelation from a deity to logically think about what kind of world we would have if people killed or stole from other people. A short moment of philosophical reflection is all any person needs to decide what is right and what is wrong. Modern morality is derived from Greek and Roman sources, not from Christianity. How is it that people who don’t believe in any God have such vastly superior morals than those of believers like you?

You are correct…the thought of hell used to scare me, but it doesn’t anymore.
Let me get this straight…..There is recorded history of Jesus Christ written down…..and you don’t believe it. Right? That is what you said…..you don’t believe. There is recorded history of Abraham Lincoln, do you believe in him? What I CAN’T figure out is……why do you keep responding to me? See, I know why why I want to respond to you. I have Morals AND Values…..and I value human souls. I want to talk to you about Jesus. That’s why I want to talk to you. BUT if I were talking just plain nutty and you fully believed that, you would stop. But you can’t. There is no proof that this world just came to be……they can prove nothing. They write things in our textbooks for school and pass it off as facts. There has been a reward waiting of $125,000, to anyone who could prove evolution was true….no one has claimed it. Why because they can’t. These people that you speak so highly of with morals and values put in our childrens textbooks that they come from monkeys, which in turn makes themact like animals coming to schools and shooting there teachers and friends!Moral person…person with values?I think not!If you tell someone long enough that they come from an animal…..they will start acting like one. This world has come so far from what God has created,
because of sin that you are willing to pass off the right to kill a partially born baby and label it MORAL! God spoke to the church of Laodecia and told them that He wished that they were either hot or cold because the lukewarmness was making Him want to puke, well you sir my friend took care of that……you have proved your coldness and coldness does not prove MORALITY.You do need a deity to tell you what to do! You need THE DEITY!!You were put here for HIS glory. It is so sad to live in a world that never wants “a boss”.Never wants any kind of authority to be over them……….sounds moral to me. Are you honestly telling me you want to go to a person……a PERSON from Greek sources or Roman sources to tell YOU personaaly what is moral? A PERSON? The same flesh as you kind of person? Come on….you can come up with something better than that. I am honestly tired of this conversation with you……..but I feel accountable to you.

You said: Let me get this straight…..There is recorded history of Jesus Christ written down…..and you don’t believe it. Right? That is what you said…..you don’t believe. There is recorded history of Abraham Lincoln, do you believe in him?
Boris says: There are actual historical documents that prove Abraham Lincoln exited. We have actual quotes from Lincoln like this one: “It will not do to investigate the subject of religion too closely, as it is apt to lead to infidelity.” Yep not only do we know honest Abe existed we know he, as his law partner testified, was an avowed atheist. See, the stories about Lincoln aren’t riddled with dialog between people in a dramatic setting, tales of the supernatural including angels, demons and Satan or any other obvious elements of fiction. There is not one mention of Jesus Christ in anything that could be considered a real historical document.
You said: What I CAN’T figure out is……why do you keep responding to me? See, I know why why I want to respond to you. I have Morals AND Values…..and I value human souls.
Boris says: Well I value human LIVES, not magical boogy spirits that don’t exist.
You said: I want to talk to you about Jesus. That’s why I want to talk to you. BUT if I were talking just plain nutty and you fully believed that, you would stop. But you can’t. There is no proof that this world just came to be……they can prove nothing. They write things in our textbooks for school and pass it off as facts. There has been a reward waiting of $125,000, to anyone who could prove evolution was true….no one has claimed it. Why because they can’t.
Boris says: Can you explain why every CHRISTIAN college and university in the world that teaches science teaches evolution and common descent? Every last one, Baylor, SMU, Stanford, Notre Dame, Brigham Young, TCU – all of them! It’s not just the public schools dear, it’s also the ENTIRE CHRISTIAN ACADEMIC COMMUNITY! Scientists aren’t in the business of offering dogmatic proofs of anything. Second there is a much bigger reward for anyone who could disprove any part of evolutionary theory. Anyone who could do this would win a Nobel Prize for science and become a multi-millionaire for sure. But this hasn’t happened has it? How do you explain THAT may I ask? ROFL! When has science ever had to revise one of its theories in the face of claims from Bible believers? You people have denied every scientific discovery ever made ever since there was a Bible. Your anti-evolution nonsense is the same as your predecessors insistence that the earth is flat, never moves and is orbited by the sun just like the Bible clearly says it is. You lost that battle and you’ve already lost the war on evolution too, 150 years ago. Wake up.
You said: These people that you speak so highly of with morals and values put in our childrens textbooks that they come from monkeys, which in turn makes themact like animals coming to schools and shooting there teachers and friends!Moral person…person with values?I think not!If you tell someone long enough that they come from an animal…..they will start acting like one.
Boris says: Evolution does NOT say that humans came from monkeys! You don’t know the first thing about evolution yet you somehow feel qualified to tell people evolution isn’t a valid explanation for the diversity of life on Earth. Humans are dignified animals, too dignified to start acting like lower animals.
You said: This world has come so far from what God has created,
because of sin that you are willing to pass off the right to kill a partially born baby and label it MORAL!
Boris says: You think that an unborn fetus has rights that supersede the person carrying it. Rights must be considered as a whole and there can be no rights that infringe on another person’s rights. You people want to turn women into breeding pigs with the government controlling their bodies. That proves your morals and ethics are inferior and very dangerous to a free society.
You said: You do need a deity to tell you what to do! You need THE DEITY!!You were put here for HIS glory. It is so sad to live in a world that never wants “a boss”.Never wants any kind of authority to be over them……….sounds moral to me.
Boris says: No you need me to believe in your deity so you can tell me how to live and what to think based on its supposed authority.
You said: Are you honestly telling me you want to go to a person……a PERSON from Greek sources or Roman sources to tell YOU personaaly what is moral? A PERSON? The same flesh as you kind of person? Come on….you can come up with something better than that. I am honestly tired of this conversation with you……..but I feel accountable to you.
Boris says: You let people tell you that the Bible was true. So YOU are the one who gets their ideas from other PEOPLE, not me.

Im gonna make this game easier on myself:
1. I have actual quotes of Jesus Christ, they are the RED LETTERS in the KJV.
2. What does it prosper a man if he gains his life, but loses his soul.
3. There is no actual proof for your science creation of the world only theories….you used the word theories yourself.Give me proof.
4.I said in the very first comment I made on this sight….There are “Christian Colleges” that teach evolution among other satanic things because EVERYTHING THAT CALLS ITSELF CHRISTIAN IS NOT CHRISTIAN!!I attend a Christian University that does not teach evolution. Surprise.
5.Yes evolution does teach we come from monkeys among other lower life forms.I have textbooks from public schools sitting right here in my very presence.
6.An unborn fetus does have the SAME rights as the woman carrying it. If you choose to kill something that is human YOU HAVE NO MORALS OR VALUES. It’s still human whether or not it can talk for itself.Don’t tell me you have the right to kill a human and then tell me your values and morals are superior to mine.
7. I don’t need you to believe in God for me to act the way I want. I will serve God whether or not you want to….but in the end when you are facing Jesus at Judgement and He says to you “Depart from Me ye worker of iniquity, I never knew you” I will be there and I will judge with him. I am not your judge here but I have been promised a seat In the HIGH COURT right next to Him.
This last thing is just a bonus really…….since you like rolling on the floor laughing…..I got one for ya. So this scientist says to God, “God we don’t need you anymore….we have figured out how to create human life ourselves” so God says”Really? Show Me” So the scientist gathers dirt to form life, and right away God says…(this is where it gets good)” NO, NO, NO,…….GET YOU OWN DIRT!!!!!” ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!That’s funny I don’t care who you are.hehe

Boris, It has been real talking to you, but you have wasted enough of my time. Jesus told His disciples that if they went somewhere to teach the Gospel and they were not accepted….to dust the dirt of that place off their feet and not look back, because it will be better for Sodom and Gomorrah than for them. Sir…I brush you as dirt off of my feet. I can’t understand why you were even on this site to begin with. You are not spiritual and this whole ordeal was about spiritual things.The whole thing.The article, the comments.I may never meet you face to face here, but I will see you at your court date. Till then.

Concerned,
It was real talking to me, a little too real for you no doubt. You have no words of Jesus in red letters. You have words writers put on the lips of a mythical figure. Most modern scholars agree with me. The word theory means an explanation of the facts, not a guess about something. We have atomic theory to explain the behavior of atoms. Scientists can’t see atoms but they know they are there. We have cell theory to explain the complexity of cells and how they work. No one doubts the existence of cells. We have evolutionary theory which explains the facts of common descent. No real scientists doubt the existence of evolution or the validity of evolutionary theory any more than they doubt cell theory or atomic theory. The only people who doubt evolution are Bible believers – the same people who doubt cosmology, geology, anthropology, archaeology, chemistry, physics, astronomy and the rest of science as well and always have.
You may attend a Christian university but it doesn’t teach science. What is the name of your school?

Boris,
Thanks for being a shining beacon of clarity and wisdom in a world far too stuffed with superstition and dogmatism. I enjoyed reading your contributions here.
Concerned Christian,
You said (to Boris): “Sir…I brush you as dirt off of my feet.”
I’m disappointed by this example of your self-claimed superior morality.
Please learn more about the things you claim to already know. One common trap of learning is to think you’ve finished the process. You cannot. You claim to know what evolution is. You don’t. You claim to understand where the Bible came from. You don’t. You claim to know what the Bible’s God wants. You don’t. You react to things as though you are being personally attacked. You aren’t.
Please consider the difficulty you yourself would have when talking to a person of faith from any of the tens of thousands of other religions which you yourself realize are false. As some of the 2/3 of the world’s people who are not Christians, how can we even begin to penetrate the thickly applied and highly refined defensive systems that believers of your religion have developed without causing you to feel offended?

Hey Boris, nice to speak with you again…seriously.
“There is not one mention of Jesus Christ in anything that could be considered a real historical document.”
The Antiquities of the Jews by the Jewish historian Josephus mentions Jesus of Nazarath as a real person.
Also, the Bible is an excellent, accurate and very detailed history book…especially from an archaeological perspective. Check it out:
http://www.bib-arch.org
There are plenty of legitimate cases where the texts from the Bible pointed modern-day archaeologists to many discoveries.
“Can you explain why every CHRISTIAN college and university in the world that teaches science teaches evolution and common descent? Every last one, Baylor, SMU, Stanford, Notre Dame, Brigham Young, TCU ”
Beause those schools mentioned are not Christian anymore. Maybe they had roots in Christianity, but those were dug up a long time ago. Here’s a couple of real Chrisitian universiries that exist today: Messiah College, Liberty University, Wheaton College…

James,
You said: The Antiquities of the Jews by the Jewish historian Josephus mentions Jesus of Nazarath as a real person.
Boris says: A more brazen forgery was never perpetrated. For more than two hundred years, the Christian Fathers who were familiar with the works of Josephus knew nothing of this passage. Had the passage been in the works of Josephus which they knew, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Origen an Clement of Alexandria would have been eager to hurl it at their Jewish opponents in their many controversies. But it did not exist. Indeed, Origen, who knew his Josephus well, expressly affirmed that that writer had not acknowledged Christ. This passage first appeared in the writings of the Christian Father Eusebius, the first historian of Christianity, early in the fourth century; and it is believed that he was its author. Eusebius, who not only advocated fraud in the interest of the faith, but who is know to have tampered with passages in the works of Josephus and several other writers, introduces this passage in his “Evangelical Demonstration,” (Book III., p.124), in these words: “Certainly the attestations I have already produced concerning our Savior may be sufficient. However, it may not be amiss, if, over and above, we make use of Josephus the Jew for a further witness.”
Everything demonstrates the spurious character of the passage. It is written in the style of Eusebius, and not in the style of Josephus. Josephus was a voluminous writer. He wrote extensively about men of minor importance. The brevity of this reference to Christ is, therefore, a strong argument for its falsity. This passage interrupts the narrative. It has nothing to do with what precedes or what follows it; and its position clearly shows that the text of the historian has been separated by a later hand to give it room. Josephus was a Jew–a priest of the religion of Moses. This passage makes him acknowledge the divinity, the miracles, and the resurrection of Christ–that is to say, it makes an orthodox Jew talk like a believing Christian! Josephus could not possibly have written these words without being logically compelled to embrace Christianity. All the arguments of history and of reason unite in the conclusive proof that the passage is an unblushing forgery.
You said: Also, the Bible is an excellent, accurate and very detailed history book…especially from an archaeological perspective. Check it out:
Boris says: No history book is written with word for word dialog between people in a dramatic setting, tales of the supernatural, stories involving angels, demons, Satan, talking animals, impossibly old people, archaic moralizing and bad poetry. Those are all the elements of fiction, not any kind of history.
You said: There are plenty of legitimate cases where the texts from the Bible pointed modern-day archaeologists to many discoveries.
Boris says: “Archaeological data have now definitely confirmed that the empire of David and Solomon never existed.” – Biblical Archaeological Review 31, no. 1 (January/February 2005): 16-17.
Explain that please.
You said: Beause those schools mentioned are not Christian anymore. Maybe they had roots in Christianity, but those were dug up a long time ago. Here’s a couple of real Chrisitian universiries that exist today: Messiah College, Liberty University, Wheaton College…
Boris says: Texas Christian University not a Christian college? Are you kidding me? None of those colleges you mentioned even have a microscope or a telescope let alone any kind of science department. They are seminaries, not real universities. You just made my point and drove it home.
This post of mine makes some very good points and very damaging claims against Christianity. many of these kinds of posts have been erased by whoever moderates this blog. Christians are still trying to silence their critics any way they can. It just proves how damaging a little free inquiry into this religion really is.

Concerning the Historicity of Iësous, Tacitus, writing in the 1st Century (born ca. 50 A.D./ Chr’n Era), in “Annals of Imperial Rome,” mentions “Christus,” sometime leader of Christians, whom he derides as probably being culpable for the fire in Rome
(cited by F.F. Bruce in “The New Testament Documents — are they reliable?” published by the Wm. B. Eerdmans pub’g Co. in Grand Rapids, MI, reprinted 1994, paperback).
   Boris said, “Had the passage been in the works of Josephus which they knew, [early Christians] would have been eager to hurl it at their Jewish opponents in their many controversies.”
_ _ The Jews already acknowledged Jesus’ existence. The Talmud (compiled by Akiba, who was executed in 135 C.E.) speaks of “Jesu ben Pantere,” i.e., a son of bastardy (a modification of “parthenos,” i.e., “virgin”)
(-Babylonian Talmud, opinion of the Amorian, cited by Josh MacDowell in “Evidence That Demands A Verdict,” as well as by Bart Simpson).
The Talmud consigns him to be cooked in boiling excreta in Hell. The reason for that condemnation was his claim to be God, and because anyone who defied the Sanhedrin (supreme court) deserved to die
(-Robert A. Morey [www.FaithDefenders.com], D.Min., Comparitive Religion, conferred by Faith Theological Seminary, founded by Francis A. Schaeffer, et al., an offshoot of J.G. Machen’s Westminster Seminary, now in Philadelphia, PA).
_ _ A Professor of Apologetics at Trinity Graduate School, Craig S. Hawkins [www.ApologeticsInfo.org], who may be heard via the Salem Communications Corp. {radio} [http://salem.cc]) lists books of Christian Apologetics.
   Boris says: “`Archaeological data have now definitely confirmed that the empire of David and Solomon never existed.’ – Biblical Archaeological Review 31, no. 1 (January/February 2005): 16-17.”
_ _ I read in Christianity Today (circa 1993 – 2002) that more fragments of a stone inscription about David were found. His apparent existence is a reason to maintain that what the Jews wrote about him may have occurred. How can somebody assert that item X did not exist? E.g., in order to prove that there is no gold in China, oneself needs to know that there is none in each subset of China – under stones, in shops, on teeth, etc.

“Boris says: Texas Christian University not a Christian college? Are you kidding me? None of those colleges you mentioned even have a microscope or a telescope let alone any kind of science department. They are seminaries, not real universities. You just made my point and drove it home.”
- TCU is affiliated with the Diciples of Christ denomination which have denied the virgin birth of Jesus, participated with other liberal denominations in undermining the accuracy and authenticity of the Bible, and supported gay marriage. Just because the name “Christian” is in the title, doesn’t equate it to Biblical Christianity.
The other schools I mentioned can legally give thier students BS and BA degrees which are honored in the US professional workplace. I’m not sure how or why you wouldn’t call them official colleges or universities. They have majors in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Engineering, Mathematics, etc.
I mention this one first to prove that what is stated in your posts are not always fact. You stated:
“None of those colleges you mentioned even have a microscope or a telescope let alone any kind of science department. They are seminaries, not real universities. You just made my point and drove it home.”
This is clearly not true based on their current websites:
http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6908
http://www.messiah.edu/academics/
http://www.wheaton.edu/acad/
No matter how educated, smart or well-researched your posts are, you’ve now blatantly smeared the truth in this one. Because of this, every post you type cannot be considered trustworthy.
Many of your posts are clearly emotional. I don’t believe you when you stated you’ve had no offenses in your past regarding Christians. It’s clear (based on your many posts) there are issues of unforgiveness and bitterness in your life. There is also much fear. What you’re reading right now is probably offending you. It’s not meant to, however.
I really don’t want to debate. All it does is create angst, bitterness, frustration, etc. You’re going to believe what you choose to believe…truth or lie…doesn’t matter. Belief is a choice. What I’m concerned with is how much your bitterness, unforgiveness and fear have consumed your life. I used to be the same way and I know many, many people just like you (including myself) that have been freed from that junk. It’s possible and it makes life much more joyful.
It may be something you’ve heard a million times, but this time will be different. Jesus can bring you the joy and peace that is missing from your life. Through Him, you can love people unconditionally…even your enemies.
Let me tell you something: My wife, whom I love dearly, was sexually, physically and mentally abused by her father for years when she was young. When we met and got to know each other, we fell in love. When I heard about all the junk that her father did, I pretty much decided that I would never like him, let alone love. I didn’t even acknowledge him as her father. She had already forgiven him years ago, but not me.
About 2 years after we married, he called her from a homeless shelter. He had $50, no job, no place to live, and was quite sick. She wasn’t sure if he should come live with us and I was vehemently against it. There was no way I would EVER let that man set foot in my house. All that stuff he did to MY wife? No way.
That night, I asked Jesus what to do. The answer? Let him come. So, with that $50, he bought a bus ticket to our city and lived with us for 2 months. During those 2 months, I began to develop a deep love for that man. I couldn’t understand or explain it. He didn’t even thank us for helping him out. There was absolutely, positively no reason for me to love him. None, but it happened regardless.
Now, 2 years later, we have a wonderful relationship. He has embraced my love and has reciprocated. He was such a hard man, full of bitterness, guilt, hate…but now he’s as gentle as a dove.
This is how I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is real. He change me from a hater of my enemies to a lover of them.

You said: – TCU is affiliated with the Diciples of Christ denomination which have denied the virgin birth of Jesus, participated with other liberal denominations in undermining the accuracy and authenticity of the Bible, and supported gay marriage. Just because the name “Christian” is in the title, doesn’t equate it to Biblical Christianity.
The other schools I mentioned can legally give thier students BS and BA degrees which are honored in the US professional workplace. I’m not sure how or why you wouldn’t call them official colleges or universities. They have majors in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Engineering, Mathematics, etc.
You said: I mention this one first to prove that what is stated in your posts are not always fact. You stated:
“None of those colleges you mentioned even have a microscope or a telescope let alone any kind of science department. They are seminaries, not real universities. You just made my point and drove it home.”
This is clearly not true based on their current websites:
Boris says: These colleges you mentioned do NOT teach REAL science. “Creation in Biology” the text book they use for biology is NOT in any way a science book but a book full of religious dogma and nonsense.
You said: No matter how educated, smart or well-researched your posts are, you’ve now blatantly smeared the truth in this one. Because of this, every post you type cannot be considered trustworthy.
Boris says: You don’t trust anybody or anything except for the paper idol you worship. You know I’m right about everything I posted so we now know it is you who can’t be trusted don’t we? ROFL!
You said: Many of your posts are clearly emotional. I don’t believe you when you stated you’ve had no offenses in your past regarding Christians. It’s clear (based on your many posts) there are issues of unforgiveness and bitterness in your life. There is also much fear. What you’re reading right now is probably offending you. It’s not meant to, however.
Boris says: Christianity is an offense to every independent thinker in the world.
You said: I really don’t want to debate. All it does is create angst, bitterness, frustration, etc. You’re going to believe what you choose to believe…truth or lie…doesn’t matter. Belief is a choice.
Boris says: You already lost this debate and very badly too. I crushed you lack of knowledge concerning the forgeries in the work of Josephus. Belief is NOT a choice. I CANNOT choose to believe things that I know are not true. I KNOW that the stories in the Bible are pure nonsense and so does anyone else with any decent education are a bit of common sense.
You said: What I’m concerned with is how much your bitterness, unforgiveness and fear have consumed your life. I used to be the same way and I know many, many people just like you (including myself) that have been freed from that junk. It’s possible and it makes life much more joyful.
Boris says: I am as happy as a person can be. You are just angry because atheists refuse to be miserable the way you tell us we should be.
You said: It may be something you’ve heard a million times, but this time will be different. Jesus can bring you the joy and peace that is missing from your life. Through Him, you can love people unconditionally…even your enemies.
Boris says: Blah, blah blah. I do love people. Love the Christian hate the Christianity is what I say.
You said: This is how I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is real. He change me from a hater of my enemies to a lover of them.
Boris says: Since I’ve never been a hater I clearly don’t need to believe in Jesus then do I? Your beliefs changed you.

Tom R. I’m going to shoot down your claims also. You people really haven’t done your homework on these supposed mentions of a historical Jesus.
You said: Concerning the Historicity of Iësous, Tacitus, writing in the 1st Century (born ca. 50 A.D./ Chr’n Era), in “Annals of Imperial Rome,” mentions “Christus,” sometime leader of Christians, whom he derides as probably being culpable for the fire in Rome
(cited by F.F. Bruce in “The New Testament Documents — are they reliable?” published by the Wm. B. Eerdmans pub’g Co. in Grand Rapids, MI, reprinted 1994, paperback).
Boris says: In the “Annals” of Tacitus, the Roman historian, there is another short passage which speaks of “Christus” as being the founder of a party called Christians–a body of people “who were abhorred for their crimes.” These words occur in Tacitus’ account of the burning of Rome. The evidence for this passage is not much stronger than that for the passage in Josephus. It was not quoted by any writer before the fifteenth century; and when it was quoted, there was only one copy of the “Annals” in the world; and that copy was supposed to have been made in the eighth century–six hundred years after Tacitus’ death. The “Annals” were published between 115 and 117 A.D., nearly a century after Jesus’ time–so the passage, even if genuine, would not prove anything as to Jesus. The name “Jesus” was as common among the Jews as is William or George with us. In the writings of Josephus, we find accounts of a number of Jesuses. One was Jesus, the son of Sapphias, the founder of a seditious band of mariners; another was Jesus, the captain of the robbers whose followers fled when they heard of his arrest; still another Jesus was a monomaniac who for seven years went about Jerusalem, crying, “Woe, woe, woe unto Jerusalem!” who was bruised and beaten many times, but offered no resistance; and who was finally killed with a stone at the siege of Jerusalem.
The word “Christ,” the Greek equivalent of the Jewish word “Messiah,” was not a personal name; it was a title; it meant “the Anointed One.”
You said: The Jews already acknowledged Jesus’ existence. The Talmud (compiled by Akiba, who was executed in 135 C.E.) speaks of “Jesu ben Pantere,” i.e., a son of bastardy (a modification of “parthenos,” i.e., “virgin”)
(-Babylonian Talmud, opinion of the Amorian, cited by Josh MacDowell in “Evidence That Demands A Verdict,” as well as by Bart Simpson).
The Talmud consigns him to be cooked in boiling excreta in Hell. The reason for that condemnation was his claim to be God, and because anyone who defied the Sanhedrin (supreme court) deserved to die
(-Robert A. Morey [www.FaithDefenders.com], D.Min., Comparitive Religion, conferred by Faith Theological Seminary, founded by Francis A. Schaeffer, et al., an offshoot of J.G. Machen’s Westminster Seminary, now in Philadelphia, PA).
_ _ A Professor of Apologetics at Trinity Graduate School, Craig S. Hawkins [www.ApologeticsInfo.org], who may be heard via the Salem Communications Corp. {radio} [http://salem.cc]) lists books of Christian Apologetics.
Boris says: The Talmud says Jesus ben Pantera had only five disciples. It isn’ the person you wish it was. I’m a Jew, I have the Talmud, I would know. You wouldn’t. The fact that such a thing as apologetics even exists clearly demonstrates the weakness of Christian arguments. Arguments are NOT evidence and all Christians have is arguments that there is or was evidence, not any hard evidence they can actually point to.
You said: I read in Christianity Today (circa 1993 – 2002) that more fragments of a stone inscription about David were found. His apparent existence is a reason to maintain that what the Jews wrote about him may have occurred. How can somebody assert that item X did not exist? E.g., in order to prove that there is no gold in China, oneself needs to know that there is none in each subset of China – under stones, in shops, on teeth, etc.
Boris says: Scholars at Tel Aviv University have proved the Tel Dan inscription is a fake. An inscription with ‘beloved’ on it isn’t evidence that anyone lived especially a giant killer. You claims of evidence for Jesus Christ are really pathetic. And they clearly show that the case against a historical Jesus is a slam dunk. Jesus Christ never existed. You and James just proved it with your own presentations of nothing.

“Boris says: I am as happy as a person can be. You are just angry because atheists refuse to be miserable the way you tell us we should be.”
- I’m not talking about ‘happiness’. That’s relative and fleeting. I’m speaking of joy. Big difference. This has nothing to do with atheism. Don’t think you’re so special The fact you have the opinion that Christians believe atheists have to be miserable further proves your resentment, unforgiveness and bitterness. It stems from your past and present experiences. Deny it all you want, but we both know the truth.
I had the same feelings as you, but not any more.
“Belief is NOT a choice. I CANNOT choose to believe things that I know are not true.”
- Sure it is. Just ask someone that has experienced a loved ones’ death. Most people initially choose to believe that they are not dead; and sometimes, it lasts quite some time. Just a small example, but true.
Right now, you are choosing to believe that I want atheists to be miserable. That’s not truth, but you choose to believe it still. In fact, in my last post, I tried to specifically tell you otherwise with a very personal and humbling experience of mine, but you are still choosing to believe otherwise. Belief is a choice.
“Boris says: Since I’ve never been a hater I clearly don’t need to believe in Jesus then do I?”
- I never mentioned that I hated anyone. Disliked, yes. Hated? No. Do you love your enemies? Am I your enemy?

Miriam (a common Jewish name) was the mother of Jesu the Bastard (-Talmud). Is that a coincidence? Let’s see how the Commentaries coincide with the New Testament. According to F.F. Bruce, they say that –
“Jesus of Nazreth was a transgressor in Israel, who practised magic, scorned the words of the wise, led the people astry, and said he had not come to destroy the law but to add to it. He was hanged on Passover Eve for heresy and misleading the people. His disciples, of whom five are named, healed the sick in his name” (p. 101).
Boris says, “The Talmud says Jesus ben Pantera had only five disciples. It isn’t the person you wish it was.”
_ _ The early Talmudic Commentaries do not say that Jesus had ~~only~~ 5 pupils.
Perhaps you have seen Grant Jeffrey’s broadcast on the Trinity Broadcasting Network entitled ~ “The Signature of God.” It alleges that the Dead Sea Scrolls contain fragments from the first chapters of Matthew’s and Mark’s Gospels. Something close to the Angel Gabriel’s description of the Messiah in Luke’s Gospel was found there-in (-Dr. Morey).
Oneself could dismiss as improbable a solitary instance of hazy history. Taken together, extra-biblical ancient sources corroborate the text of Scripture
(although they are few in their earliest manuscripts, which are separated by hundreds of years from their original autographa). In the 1st Century the number of citations was small due to the small number of adherents, a some of whom police reported.
According to the late Presbyterian clergyman D. James Kennedy (via T.B.N.), 19 early pagan writers refer to a Jesus, some of whom were hostile to him. E.g.,
 Suetonius, ca. 120 C.E., in “Life of Nero” (xvi. 2), says, “Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men addicted to a novel and mischievous superstition.”
 Pliny the younger (C. Plinius Secundus), govenor of Bithynia, Asia Minor, 112 C.E. describes to Emperor Trajan numerous, troublesome Christians, who confessed to being “… in the habit of meeting … when they sang an anthem to Christ as God, ….”
 Porphyry
 Epectitus
 Lucian the 2nd Century satirist, in his first book, says that Christians worshiped Christ, of whom he spoke critically.
 Eristetes
 Galenus/ Gallenius?
 Celsus wrote the first great attack
 Lampridius
 Diocasius (misspelled?)
 Emerius
 Le[m?]b[a?]enius
 Emianus
 Marsalinus
 Eunapius
 Zosimus
Mara Bar-Serapion the Syrian, who does not profess faith, refers to the Jews’ “wise King” as an example, with other executed figures, i.e. Socrates & Pythagoras, of wisdom for his imprisoned son. The putative date of the letter is >73 C.E.
» » » Does this Jesus sound like a Myth? « « «

James,
You said: – I’m not talking about ‘happiness’. That’s relative and fleeting. I’m speaking of joy. Big difference. This has nothing to do with atheism. Don’t think you’re so special
Boris says: There’s a big difference between happiness and joy? How so? Do you own a dictionary? If you look up either word the other one is given as a definition for it. How’s this? I’m completely satisfied and I don’t feel special. I’m just one of billions.
You said: The fact you have the opinion that Christians believe atheists have to be miserable further proves your resentment, unforgiveness and bitterness. It stems from your past and present experiences. Deny it all you want, but we both know the truth.
Boris says: I love it when Christians tell me that they know I know what they think they know. It isn’t my “opinion” that I’ve heard countless preachers and apologists claim atheists are miserable and unworthy people. It’s not my “opinion” that I’ve been told that I’m really miserable by supposedly well-meaning Christians.
You said: I had the same feelings as you, but not any more.
Boris says: You don’t know me or have a clue what I think or feel.
You said: – Sure it is. Just ask someone that has experienced a loved ones’ death. Most people initially choose to believe that they are not dead; and sometimes, it lasts quite some time. Just a small example, but true.
Boris says: Rational people don’t choose to believe dead people are still alive. The fact remains that atheists are people who cannot possibly twist their brains into a 2000 year old pretzel and try to believe a bunch of ridiculous fairy tales and barbaric myths that other PEOPLE desperately want them to.
You said: Right now, you are choosing to believe that I want atheists to be miserable. That’s not truth, but you choose to believe it still. In fact, in my last post, I tried to specifically tell you otherwise with a very personal and humbling experience of mine, but you are still choosing to believe otherwise. Belief is a choice.
Boris says: I’ve heard and read too many very personal and humbling de-conversion stories to give any credence to any kind of religious conversion stories.
You said: – I never mentioned that I hated anyone. Disliked, yes. Hated? No. Do you love your enemies? Am I your enemy?
Boris says: The demand to love one’s enemies is absurd. If someone has made themselves my enemy why should I love them or even want to? You are not my enemy. You’re just some guy on a blog that I don’t know.

Tom R.
You said: Miriam (a common Jewish name) was the mother of Jesu the Bastard (-Talmud). Is that a coincidence? Let’s see how the Commentaries coincide with the New Testament. According to F.F. Bruce, they say that –
“Jesus of Nazreth was a transgressor in Israel, who practised magic, scorned the words of the wise, led the people astry, and said he had not come to destroy the law but to add to it. He was hanged on Passover Eve for heresy and misleading the people. His disciples, of whom five are named, healed the sick in his name” (p. 101).
Boris says, “The Talmud says Jesus ben Pantera had only five disciples. It isn’t the person you wish it was.”
Boris says: The Yeshu described in the Talmud had 5 disciples – Mattai, Nakkia, Netzer, Buni and Todah. Yeshu was a very common name in Palestine. These disciples have Jewish names, not any of the Greek names the disciples in the gospels had. Why send me a passage from a book I just told you I owned and especially one which clearly refutes your claims?And why does Jesus the Jew only speak Greek?
You said: _ _ The early Talmudic Commentaries do not say that Jesus had ~~only~~ 5 pupils.
Perhaps you have seen Grant Jeffrey’s broadcast on the Trinity Broadcasting Network entitled ~ “The Signature of God.” It alleges that the Dead Sea Scrolls contain fragments from the first chapters of Matthew’s and Mark’s Gospels. Something close to the Angel Gabriel’s description of the Messiah in Luke’s Gospel was found there-in (-Dr. Morey).
Oneself could dismiss as improbable a solitary instance of hazy history. Taken together, extra-biblical ancient sources corroborate the text of Scripture
(although they are few in their earliest manuscripts, which are separated by hundreds of years from their original autographa). In the 1st Century the number of citations was small due to the small number of adherents, a some of whom police reported.
Boris says: The Dead Sea Scroll contain no such fragments but some of the literature clearly indicates that the themes of the gospel stories were around long before anyone ever heard any stories about Jesus Christ.
You said: According to the late Presbyterian clergyman D. James Kennedy (via T.B.N.), 19 early pagan writers refer to a Jesus, some of whom were hostile to him. E.g.,
Boris says: D. James Kennedy was a shameless liar and an uneducated dunce. For instance he claimed that in 1776 the United States was 99.8 per cent Christian. I mean really. His lies about evolution were just off the charts as far as dishonest. Same with the propaganda his ministry made up about atheists.
You said:  Suetonius, ca. 120 C.E., in “Life of Nero” (xvi. 2), says, “Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men addicted to a novel and mischievous superstition.”
 Pliny the younger (C. Plinius Secundus), govenor of Bithynia, Asia Minor, 112 C.E. describes to Emperor Trajan numerous, troublesome Christians, who confessed to being “… in the habit of meeting … when they sang an anthem to Christ as God, ….”
 Porphyry
 Epectitus
 Lucian the 2nd Century satirist, in his first book, says that Christians worshiped Christ, of whom he spoke critically.
 Eristetes
 Galenus/ Gallenius?
 Celsus wrote the first great attack
 Lampridius
 Diocasius (misspelled?)
 Emerius
 Le[m?]b[a?]enius
 Emianus
 Marsalinus
 Eunapius
 Zosimus
Mara Bar-Serapion the Syrian, who does not profess faith, refers to the Jews’ “wise King” as an example, with other executed figures, i.e. Socrates & Pythagoras, of wisdom for his imprisoned son. The putative date of the letter is >73 C.E.
Boris says: Do you think I haven’t seen this list before? As if a list made long enough could disguise the fact that not ONE of these mentions is even anywhere close to the supposed time that Jesus lived and all from the second century. ROFL! Your “putative date” is just more Christian wish-thinking like the ridiculously early dating of the gospels – books no one ever heard of before 180 CE.
You said: » » » Does this Jesus sound like a Myth? « « «
Boris says: Yes, this Jesus sounds like a myth and the weakness of your case proves it. What historical actual figure, may I ask, has people from one particular religion engaged in a 2000 year long effort to prove they really existed? The fact that so many lies have been told, forgeries been done, hoaxes been pulled, evidence faked and excuses made all to prove this person actually existed is all the evidence one really needs to know for sure they didn’t. Try your lists and wish-based claims with someone who hasn’t seen them all before. They’re nonsense. You’re going to have to do way better than that.

Myth:
You choose to disbelieve in God (and you should choose to believe in God).
Response:
I frequently hear the claim that atheists choose atheism, usually for some morally blameworthy reason like a desire to avoid taking responsibility for their sins. My response is basically the same every time: You may not believe me, but I didn’t choose any such thing, and I can’t just ‘choose’ to start believing. Maybe you can, but I can’t. I do not believe in any gods. Evidence would make me believe in some god, but all the playacting in the world isn’t going to change that.
Why? Because belief itself simply does not appear to be a matter of will or choice. A real problem with this idea of “voluntarism” in beliefs is that an examination of the nature of holding beliefs does not lead to the conclusion that they are very much like actions, which are voluntary.
When an evangelist tells us that we have chosen to be atheists and that we are deliberately avoiding belief in a god, they are not entirely correct. It isn’t true that one chooses to be an atheist. Atheism — especially if it is at all rational — is simply the inevitable conclusion from available information. I no more “choose” to disbelieve in gods than I “choose” to disbelieve in elves or than I “choose” to believe that there is a chair in my room. These beliefs and the absence thereof are not acts of will which I had to consciously take — they are, rather, conclusions which were necessary based upon the evidence at hand.
However, it is possible that a person may wish that it not be true that a god exists and, hence, has directed their research based on that. Personally, I have never encountered anyone who has disbelieved in the existence of a god based simply on this desire. As I myself have argued, the existence of a god doesn’t even necessarily matter — rendering the truth emotionally irrelevant. It’s arrogant to simply assume and assert that an atheist is being unduly influenced by some desire; if a Christian sincerely believes it is true, they are obligated to demonstrate that it is true in some particular case. If they are unable or unwilling, they shouldn’t even consider bringing it up.
On the other hand, when an atheist argues that a theist believes in a god simply because they want to, that isn’t entirely correct either. A theist may wish it to be true that a god exist and this could certainly have an impact on how they look at the evidence. For this reason, the common complaint that theists are engaging in “wishful thinking” in their beliefs and examination of evidence may have some validity but not in the exact way that it’s usually meant. If an atheist does believe that some particular theist has been unduly influenced by their desires, then they are obligated to show how this is so in a particular case. Otherwise, there’s no reason to bring it up.
Instead of focusing on the actual beliefs, which are not themselves choices, it can be more important and more productive to focus instead on how a person has arrived at their beliefs because that is the result of willful choices. As a matter of fact, it is my experience that it is the method of belief formation which ultimately separates theist and atheists more then the details of a person’s theism.
This is why I have always said that the fact that a person is a theist is less important than whether or not they are skeptical about claims — both their own and others’. This is also one reason why I have said that it is more important to try and encourage skepticism and critical thinking in people rather than to try and simply “convert” them to atheism.
It is not uncommon for a person to realize that they have simply lost the ability to have blind faith in the claims made by religious tradition and religious leaders. They are no longer willing to shut away their doubts and questions. If this person then fails to find any rational reasons to continue believing in religious dogmas, those beliefs will simply fall away. Eventually, even the belief in a god will fall away — rendering that person an atheist, not by choice but instead simply because belief is no longer possible.

Hi Boris, Remember me? …I’ve been elsewhere lately. Now that I’m back, I can talk with you to dialog, but I’m not going to be drawn into wasting our time arguing back & forth. Hope you can accept that.
The way I see it, thoughts and ideas are brought to our attention. Then we decide whether to accept or reject them based on the evidence at hand. Some people choose to look at all of the evidence, others – at only part of it, others have only part of it available at the time. Anyway, a CHOICE is made either way you decide to go.
One of the things I disagree with in your statement is that… a Christian is required to have “blind” faith in religious claims.
(1)My belief is not in religious traditions or leaders…it is in God. The God who has shown Himself to be real to me in my life.
(2)THIS GOD does not demand “blind” faith…in spite of what you may believe. HE IS fully able to handle any sincere questions and, as I mentioned to you before, He challenges you to bring your skepticism and critical thinking seeking either find or disprove Him (bring them along with a heart & mind that’s open enough to be willing to change your mind about Him when He proves Himself to your heart as only He can).
I’ve talked with you before and read several of your other posts…it seems very obvious to me that you’ve been deeply hurt by something related to religion. I’m sorry you experienced whatever it was, but don’t let it keep you from finding the real thing behind the organized religion (a relationship with an all-knowing, ever present, all-powerful & loving God who loves you in spite of how hard you work to deny that He exists). As I mentioned before, if you take the challenge & you’re right…you have more substance to back your position, then one day you’ll die & decay. If you’re wrong…you’ll lose an eternity spent in the presence of the God who loves you. It’s a win-win for you…unless you still won’t take His challenge.

Ann,
You said: The way I see it, thoughts and ideas are brought to our attention. Then we decide whether to accept or reject them based on the evidence at hand. Some people choose to look at all of the evidence, others – at only part of it, others have only part of it available at the time. Anyway, a CHOICE is made either way you decide to go.
Boris says: The thing is that I have looked at all the evidence. I went to a Christian college and took quite a few classes on various aspects of the Bible including 3 years of New Testament Greek. Plus I’ve looked carefully at all the scientific data that soundly refutes all the scientific and historical inaccuracies in the Bible. You’ve done neither of these things.
You said: One of the things I disagree with in your statement is that… a Christian is required to have “blind” faith in religious claims.
(1)My belief is not in religious traditions or leaders…it is in God. The God who has shown Himself to be real to me in my life.
Boris says: Your faith is in the people who convinced you too believe that anything that could not be explained logically was automatically God showing himself to you. I’ve studied the mindset of fundamentalists like you also.
You said:(2)THIS GOD does not demand “blind” faith…in spite of what you may believe. HE IS fully able to handle any sincere questions and, as I mentioned to you before, He challenges you to bring your skepticism and critical thinking seeking either find or disprove Him (bring them along with a heart & mind that’s open enough to be willing to change your mind about Him when He proves Himself to your heart as only He can).
Boris says: Okay we know God can feed starving people by sending birds to drop magic food on them, up to forty years at a time. If God answers questions, then ask your God why he doesn’t send the birds to drop the magical food on some of the poor innocent starving children who are suffering in the world today. Let me know what God uses as an excuse for letting all these innocent children starve to death when he could easily save them – after you talk to him.
You said: I’ve talked with you before and read several of your other posts…it seems very obvious to me that you’ve been deeply hurt by something related to religion. I’m sorry you experienced whatever it was, but don’t let it keep you from finding the real thing behind the organized religion (a relationship with an all-knowing, ever present, all-powerful & loving God who loves you in spite of how hard you work to deny that He exists). As I mentioned before, if you take the challenge & you’re right…you have more substance to back your position, then one day you’ll die & decay. If you’re wrong…you’ll lose an eternity spent in the presence of the God who loves you. It’s a win-win for you…unless you still won’t take His challenge.
Boris says: I’ve never been hurt by religion, I’m offended by it and recognize that Christianity is disguising itself as virtue. This is VERY dangerous. You Christians always try to paint your critics as people who are either lunatics or someone who has some special reason to reject your religion. No special reason or far out thinking is necessary for someone to speak out against any religion. My views happen to represent the majority opinion about Christian fundamentalism and it is you science denying religious fundamentalists who are on the fringe, not people like me.

Boris,
So basically you’re trying to separate your beliefs from your own actions. Trying to say your worldview is so true you just believe it by default. As if believing in atheism is like waking up in the morning – you can’t prevent it, you just have to live with it against your will.
We all believe stuff for different reasons – some stuff we just inherited from our culture/parents. Some stuff we inherit though peer pressure. Some stuff we believe because we see ourselves doing it – so it must be ok to do (in psychology, this is called cognitive dissonance and it is resolved subconsciously by believing that our behavior, since we are doing it, is not so bad after all).
A lot of our beliefs do not come from rational thought, but from anger, emotions, traditions, etc. So saying that all his choices were just made for him subconsciously is baloney:
It took choice to see the evidence. It took choice to think about the evidence. It took choice to make a decision one day that you didn’t believe the evidence for Christianity. It took choice to NOT look at alternatives like a good scientist should do. It took choice to continually not reexamine the evidence to make sure you’re still right. It took a choice to throw the baby out with the bathwater and assume that your bad experience with one church group means that all people that are religious everywhere in existence are evil and wrong (this is equivalent to mild racism if the context were race). If you were angry, it took choice to say that you could still make rational logical conclusions in a state of anger. It took choice to believe them.
It took choice to narrow your scope of what was considered evidence. It took choice to believe that you knew it all and that a little humility was not required when determining what was good and bad evidence. It took choice to decide what the rules for determining what evidence was good and what was bad. It took choice to day after day harden your heart against Christianity, thereby polluting the evidence more. It took choice to hang out with other atheists to bring more fuel to your new budding belief system, thus clouding sound judgment and looking at alternative possibilities. It took dedicated daily choice to sharpen your repertoire of arguments against Christianity and study up on it. It took one big choice to one day say it is your goal in life to debunk Christianity.
Yes. For the atheist and people all human beings, what we choose to believe is a series of choices. Belief is a choice.

James,
You said: So basically you’re trying to separate your beliefs from your own actions. Trying to say your worldview is so true you just believe it by default. As if believing in atheism is like waking up in the morning – you can’t prevent it, you just have to live with it against your will.
Boris says: And your point is….? Atheism isn’t something people believe in buddy. It describes a lack of belief in what other PEOPLE say about their Gods. That’s all. When Christians reject their religion as an average of 52,000 adult American Christians do every week, they don’t do it by choice. They reject their religion because they simply CANNOT believe it anymore, not because they don’t want to. This proves that you are wrong beyond any doubt whatsoever.
You said: We all believe stuff for different reasons – some stuff we just inherited from our culture/parents. Some stuff we inherit though peer pressure. Some stuff we believe because we see ourselves doing it – so it must be ok to do (in psychology, this is called cognitive dissonance and it is resolved subconsciously by believing that our behavior, since we are doing it, is not so bad after all).
Boris says: Atheists don’t BELIEVE things though, and they don’t claim to know what they do not know. That is the game theists play. Not everyone HAS a belief system, only religious people have them.
You said: A lot of our beliefs do not come from rational thought, but from anger, emotions, traditions, etc. So saying that all his choices were just made for him subconsciously is baloney:
Boris says: Yes Christians are told to think with their hearts, in other words let their emotions guide their beliefs. Atheists think with their heads and don’t let their emotions guide their thinking. Therefore YOUR statement is baloney.
You said: It took choice to see the evidence. It took choice to think about the evidence. It took choice to make a decision one day that you didn’t believe the evidence for Christianity. It took choice to NOT look at alternatives like a good scientist should do. It took choice to continually not reexamine the evidence to make sure you’re still right.
Boris says: I’ve never seen a shred of evidence that could support the Christian system of dogmatic superstitions and no one else ever has either. You’ve accepted apologetic arguments by CHOICE instead of actual evidence and arguments are NOT evidence. The very need for a thing called apologetics clearly demonstrates the weakness of the Christian position, not to mention the lack of evidence. What evidence have you ever seen with your own eyes that could possibly support Christian superstitions? I can’t wait to see your response to this. It should be hilarious.
You said: It took a choice to throw the baby out with the bathwater and assume that your bad experience with one church group means that all people that are religious everywhere in existence are evil and wrong (this is equivalent to mild racism if the context were race). If you were angry, it took choice to say that you could still make rational logical conclusions in a state of anger. It took choice to believe them.
Boris says: I’m not angry at all and mocking and making fun of religion and religious people is great fun for me. You are trying to characterize me as someone with personal problems because you refuse to face up to the fact that people want nothing to do with your particular religious superstitions. So you have to pretend that your critics are not normal, intelligent and very rational people to make yourself feel better about holding such superstitions. My views about fundamentalist Christianity reflect the majority opinion in the world today. You people are a tiny minority of science hating and fearing religious fanatics that no one pays any serious attention to anymore.
You said: It took choice to narrow your scope of what was considered evidence. It took choice to believe that you knew it all and that a little humility was not required when determining what was good and bad evidence. It took choice to decide what the rules for determining what evidence was good and what was bad. It took choice to day after day harden your heart against Christianity, thereby polluting the evidence more. It took choice to hang out with other atheists to bring more fuel to your new budding belief system, thus clouding sound judgment and looking at alternative possibilities.
Boris says: It took a choice made by you, to vastly widen the scope of what would normally be considered evidence. Tales of the supernatural would not be considered evidence by you on any other subject but just this particular one. I’ve been an atheist since the day I was born and never changed. Atheism is NOT a belief system and is not new to me at all. I don’t choose my friends on the basis of their beliefs or lack of them and have many Christian and Jewish friends. Most atheists will tell you that they have very few atheist friends and that most of their friends are mainstream type Christians. It is fundamentalist Christians who cut themselves off from associating with unbelievers out of fear that they may be influenced by them. Atheists are not afraid to associate with believers.
You said: It took dedicated daily choice to sharpen your repertoire of arguments against Christianity and study up on it. It took one big choice to one day say it is your goal in life to debunk Christianity.
Boris says: Christianity was debunked centuries before I was born. Biblical scholarship and archaeology have proved the Bible is a collection of fairy tales and barbaric myths. It didn’t need any help from me. There are so many things wrong with this religion it’s a wonder everyone can’t see them plainly.
You said: Yes. For the atheist and people all human beings, what we choose to believe is a series of choices. Belief is a choice.
Boris says: I already proved that atheism is NOT a choice. You can angrily type or scream that it is all you want but it simply isn’t true. I CANNOT just choose to believe in things that I already know are not true. No one can. Belief is NOT a choice. What’s it like to see all of your spurious arguments completely destroyed and mocked by an atheist?

Boris,
For someone who doesn’t believe you certainly work very hard at showing your lack of belief. Seems to me all an atheist would have to do is ignore something rather than take claims and refute them. After all if a christian’s claims are not true ignore them. Disproving them does not make yours true.
Remember your own rules. You said your job was to sow skeptism and doubt not convert someone to atheism. That is exactly Satan’s strategy throughout The Bible. Sow doubt, dissatisfaction and distrust and if they believe as Adam, Eve and others did then Satan has achieved his goal.
Ivan

You said: For someone who doesn’t believe you certainly work very hard at showing your lack of belief. Seems to me all an atheist would have to do is ignore something rather than take claims and refute them. After all if a christian’s claims are not true ignore them. Disproving them does not make yours true.
Boris says: What claims am I making exactly? Disproving the claims of Christians certainly does show that these claims are not true an WHY they are not true.
You said: Remember your own rules. You said your job was to sow skeptism and doubt not convert someone to atheism. That is exactly Satan’s strategy throughout The Bible. Sow doubt, dissatisfaction and distrust and if they believe as Adam, Eve and others did then Satan has achieved his goal.
Boris says: Christians can always be counted on to invoke the supernatural and magical beings to try explain the absurdities of their superstitions. How did Noah get penguins, polar bears and kangaroos on the ark when these animals never lived in the Middle East? You’ll say God brought them to Noah to explain away this obvious problem. You need to tell yourself that I am not a clear thinking individual who has arrived at his conclusions because I’ve done the necessary research but rather that the boogyman is influencing my thoughts. There is no such being as Satan.

Boris,
“Boris says: Atheists don’t BELIEVE things though, and they don’t claim to know what they do not know. That is the game theists play. Not everyone HAS a belief system, only religious people have them.”
- Believing there is no God is a belief system. It’s not fact, it’s not provable, therefore it is a belief. There is faith involve; there HAS to be. Also, the very word “atheist” means “opposite of theist”. Atheism is a belief system just as much as theism.
Many atheist know this problem, so they are now starting to call themselves the “Society of Free Thinkers”. In reality, it still doesn’t change the fact that Atheism is a believe system one chooses to embrace.
“Boris says: When Christians reject their religion as an average of 52,000 adult American Christians do every week, they don’t do it by choice. They reject their religion because they simply CANNOT believe it anymore, not because they don’t want to. This proves that you are wrong beyond any doubt whatsoever.”
- No, they choose not to based on emotions, experiences, evidence, peer-pressures…many different things. It’s a choice.
And what about the people that are embracing Christianity every week? Is it that they cannot believe in Atheism anymore? Or is it only a one-way street?
“Boris says: Christianity was debunked centuries before I was born.”
They why argue day after day with Christians? Is Christianity not ‘debunked’ enough? It clearly isn’t based on the fact that many, many, well-educated, intelligent, rational, logical, sane, successful, executive people are Christians.
“You people are a tiny minority of science hating and fearing religious fanatics that no one pays any serious attention to anymore.”
- So why all the effort to shut Christian’s mouths in so many ways? Why is everyone so threatened by Christians? And no, Christians are not science-hating. ‘Science’ is: “the study of the physical and natural world and phenomena, especially by using systematic observation and experiment” – Christian’s love the study of this world. We believe it is a creation of God, so it’s something to wonder at. No, Christians are not science haters.
“Boris says: I already proved that atheism is NOT a choice. You can angrily type or scream that it is all you want but it simply isn’t true. I CANNOT just choose to believe in things that I already know are not true. No one can. Belief is NOT a choice. What’s it like to see all of your spurious arguments completely destroyed and mocked by an atheist?”
Nothing has been proven and I’m not the one getting angry. In fact, you can mock all you want. It really doesn’t bother me and I’m not offended at all…really. I’m more concerned with you, actually. This has consumed your life so much, it’s really given me a reality check. Regardless of what you believe, I will be praying for you. For peace, love, joy and hope..seriously.

James,
No explanation as to how happiness and joy are different? I didn’t think so. Funny how you fundamentalists just ignore all the humiliating questions I ask you. Really funny. Really really funny.
You said: Believing there is no God is a belief system. It’s not fact, it’s not provable, therefore it is a belief. There is faith involve; there HAS to be. Also, the very word “atheist” means “opposite of theist”. Atheism is a belief system just as much as theism.
Boris says: Get this: a (no) theist (god belief). I have a lack of belief in God. I don’t claim to know there is no God. Atheism is a LACK of a belief system about any God in any respect. Therefore it CANNOT be a belief system. Give up.
You said: Many atheist know this problem, so they are now starting to call themselves the “Society of Free Thinkers”. In reality, it still doesn’t change the fact that Atheism is a believe
No, they choose not to based on emotions, experiences, evidence, peer-pressures…many different things. It’s a choice.
Boris says: Can you choose to believe in mermaids or leprechauns? Don’t ignore this question. Answer it in your next post. God belief is no different than leprechaun or mermaid belief. Get it now? Atheists don’t need strength in numbers. Atheists don’t get together with other like-minded people once a week and throw their hands in the air and shout, scream and sing about what they believe or don’t believe. That is what theists do and they do this by choice.
You said: definitely not on the kind of emotional experiences that cause conversions. People don’t choose not to believe. And what about the people that are embracing Christianity every week? Is it that they cannot believe in Atheism anymore? Or is it only a one-way street?
Boris says: These people are not adult atheists but are people who already believe that there is some kind of deity. And they are very few in number. The Bible has an apologetic excuse for the fact that many adults reject their religion once they start to investigate it. It says there will be a great falling away from the faith in the last days. As most non-Christians know all too well, Christians have ALWAYS believed they were in the last days for the last 2000 years.
You said: They why argue day after day with Christians? Is Christianity not ‘debunked’ enough? It clearly isn’t based on the fact that many, many, well-educated, intelligent, rational, logical, sane, successful, executive people are Christians.
Boris says: I don’t get on blogs to argue about Christianity. I get on them to read and discuss the subjects that are posted on them that I’m interested in. People like you feel threatened by free thinkers like me so you change the subject and try to convert me or silence me somehow. We aren’t’ talking about the subject of this thread and it’s because of what I just pointed out. I didn’t change the subject – you did. I’m simply replying to posts that you have made. My original posts always have to do with the subject of the thread.
You said: So why all the effort to shut Christian’s mouths in so many ways? Why is everyone so threatened by Christians?
Boris says: Because Christians are determined to force their religion on the rest of the world and do it by any means deemed necessary. Christians are constantly using their religion to try to claim preferred rights as citizens such as special days off from work, acknowledgment of their religion by allowing them to post Bible passages publicly and so on. In other words Christians want to create a religious caste system that puts Christians at the top of this system. These are just some of the minor problems Christians cause. The list of major ones is endless and too obvious to mention.
You said: And no, Christians are not science-hating. ‘Science’ is: “the study of the physical and natural world and phenomena, especially by using systematic observation and experiment” – Christian’s love the study of this world. We believe it is a creation of God, so it’s something to wonder at. No, Christians are not science haters.
Boris says: Sure. You must be kidding. Do you believe in evolution? Do you believe in modern cosmology and the Big Bang Theory? Do you believe geologists when they tell us the earth is about 4.6 billion years old? Do you believe in anthropology, which tells us that humans and other apes share a common ancestor? Do you believe in astronomy, which tells us that there is light coming to us from 13.9 billion years ago? Do you believe in oceanography, which proves that the Noachian flood did not occur? Do you believe archaeologists when they tell us that, for example, that the exodus never happened and that the kingdoms of David and Solomon never existed? Your claim that Christians love the study of nature is refuted by the fact that fundamentalists Christians have denied every scientific discovery that has ever been made, and are still doing this today.
You said: Nothing has been proven and I’m not the one getting angry. In fact, you can mock all you want. It really doesn’t bother me and I’m not offended at all…really. I’m more concerned with you, actually. This has consumed your life so much, it’s really given me a reality check. Regardless of what you believe, I will be praying for you. For peace, love, joy and hope..seriously.
Boris says: Nothing can be proved to a dyed-in-the-wool faith-head. This is because you choose what you want to believe. I don’t.

Thx.4info. Mr. Boris.
The Jewish names in the early Talmud passage[s?] about a Yeshua do not cancel out the admission from their authors. Agreement from an opponent is strong evidence in the Legal-Historical method.
The Talmud could be conflated with the Gospels & the Acts of the Apostles *.
In the previous century, a Rabbi “Sam” did not deny,
(via the radio with the Prot. Walter Martin [...WalterMartin.com])
when confronted by the Talmud’s “Jesu ben Pandere, bastard son …,”
that this means the Christian Christus.
A scientific methodology has been proposed by which to determine the “probable, relative accuracy” of competing theses. The winning Thesis’ set of foundational components (called a Model) predict the most information & requires the least modification by exceptional amendments.
This is less obscurantic than reviling Prot. Apologetics as spurious, invalid or unsound, merely because of its incomplete quality.
I would be interested in any of the putative “scientific and historical inaccuracies in the Bible” that Mr. Boris would adduce. I have a Study Bible and a few, thin apologetics books that you may critique.
I posted from F.F. Bruce’s book excerpts pertaining to the possible early date of the N.T. based on letters from Clement & Ignatius
@ “my” message board, abandoned by Cal. St. Univ., Northridge, where Google ads. load fast,
@ http://dailysundial.proboards30.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=35
________________________________
* — I.e., chapter 1, verse 21, which asserts that people other than the 12 Disciples were associated with the Nazarene.

Boris says: “Sure. You must be kidding. Do you believe in evolution?”
   T.R.: We-e-ell, anything is potentially possible if it is coherent. Why would Mr. Boris believe in what cannot be directly, i.e. scientifically, observed & repeated?

Do you believe in modern cosmology and the Big Bang Theory?
   Science is guess-work (testing of hypotheses). But the expansion of the universe obeys Einstein’s Relativity to a high degree of accuracy (relative error is http://www.reasons.org .

Do you believe geologists when they tell us the earth is about 4.6 billion years old?
   Dr. Ross says it’s 4.5 billion ± 1 or 2 billion. He adheres to the Day-Age Thesis that assigns long periods of time to Days of Genesis.

Do you believe in anthropology, which tells us that humans and other apes share a common ancestor?
   This is not a scientific fact. Cro Magnon skeletons are older than Neanderthal bones. Maybe Neanderthals lived so long that they got Rickets (bowed bones). Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA is much different than human DNA, Dr. Ross says. No one has observed the formation a new species, quoth he.
_ _ “Lucy” has been identified as a Chimpanzee. Bi-pedal primates (Bigfoot /Sasquatch/ Himalayan Yeti, etc.) could be descended from Giganto-pithecus.

Do you believe in astronomy, which tells us that there is light coming to us from 13.9 billion years ago?
   Dr. Ross says that as the early universe expanded, the change of Space’s curvature had a chronological effect.
(Similarly, Matter and Energy can be converted into one another.)
I don’t know what that means. Maybe more time has passed in the outer limits than here.
(A Dr. [Robert?] Anderson * reported that 3 times as much time passed inside a yard-wide sphere than outside of it ["dilation"] and the opposite effect
[3-fold contraction/ suspended animation].)

Do you believe in oceanography, which proves that the Noachian flood did not occur?
   Please elaborate. I don’t have lateral, curly hair extensions whereby I can channel the Akashic Record.
_ _ But seriously, folks — Carl Baugh
(via KTBN-TV, http://www.creationevidence.org)
supposes that a layer of water existed under the crust until a crevice extended across it, thus creating a fountain. The continents drifted, according to Genesis, in the days of Peleg.

Do you believe archaeologists when they tell us that, for example, that the exodus never happened and that the kingdoms of David and Solomon never existed?
   The Canadian, “Naked Archeologist,” Simcha Jacobovici on the History International & History channels (e.g. in his “Exodus Decoded” 2-hour-long show) reveals artifacts in Egypt. E.g. around a Mtn. N.N.W. of Eilat (N. Gulf of Aqaba) called Jebel (=Mt.) Hashem el Tarif (?), travertine (calcium carbonate) exists in a crevice, i.e., a dried up spring, at the top of this putative Mt. Sinai.
_ _ The eruption of Santorini Island is proposed as a cause of movement of water that allowed transit across a Reed Sea N. of the Gulf of Suez.
_ _ Bruce Feiler’s “Walking the Bible” explains the 10 plagues naturalistically.
_ _ S. Jaco. visited an old ruin that may have been, I think, a place for collecting taxes during Solomon’s reign.

Quoth Mr. Boris, “Your claim that Christians love the study of nature is refuted by the fact that fundamentalists Christians have denied every scientific discovery that has ever been made, and are still doing this today.”
   We-e-ell, there can be several explanations for each observation. For example, Dr. Steven J. Gould went to Carl Baugh’s excavation at Glen Rose, TX and kept denying that the co-incident dinosaur & human/ primate footprints were authentic. May the best Model prevail on the level playing field.

James said: “Nothing has been proven and I’m not the one getting angry….”
Boris says: “Nothing can be proved to a dyed-in-the-wool faith-head. This is because you choose what you want to believe. I don’t.”
   To each his own. He who is convinced against his will // Is of the same opinion still (-Rudyard Kipling).
__________________________________
* — i.e., director of a “Time Travel Research” organization, as told via the “Coast To Coast A.M.” radio broadcast, e.g. via KFI-AM, Los Angeles, http://www.kfiam640.com .

Tom R,
You said: The Jewish names in the early Talmud passage[s?] about a Yeshua do not cancel out the admission from their authors. Agreement from an opponent is strong evidence in the Legal-Historical method.
The Talmud could be conflated with the Gospels & the Acts of the Apostles *.
In the previous century, a Rabbi “Sam” did not deny,
(via the radio with the Prot. Walter Martin [...WalterMartin.com])
when confronted by the Talmud’s “Jesu ben Pandere, bastard son …,”
that this means the Christian Christus.
Boris says: So what? Walter Martin doesn’t know any more about the Talmud or this story than anyone else. Who cares what his wish filled claims are? The Talmud is no more a history book than the Bible is. It’s a bunch of nonsense. I’m a Jew. I would know.
You said: A scientific methodology has been proposed by which to determine the “probable, relative accuracy” of competing theses. The winning Thesis’ set of foundational components (called a Model) predict the most information & requires the least modification by exceptional amendments.
This is less obscurantic than reviling Prot. Apologetics as spurious, invalid or unsound, merely because of its incomplete quality.
I would be interested in any of the putative “scientific and historical inaccuracies in the Bible” that Mr. Boris would adduce. I have a Study Bible and a few, thin apologetics books that you may critique.
Boris says: The Bible is full of scientific and historical inaccuracies and you can find hundreds of them on the Internet or in books including around a hundred failed prophecies and accounts involving all sorts of absurd animals like unicorns, fiery serpents, satyrs, giants, dragons, cockatrices, flying serpents and fairy beings like angels, demons, Satan, seraphs – it’s all just nuts.
You said: I posted from F.F. Bruce’s book excerpts pertaining to the possible early date of the N.T. based on letters from Clement & Ignatius
@ “my” message board, abandoned by Cal. St. Univ., Northridge, where Google ads. load fast,
@ http://dailysundial.proboards30.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=35
Boris says: The possible early date? No dice man. There are no mentions of any of the gospels until 180 CE. The early dating of the gospels is just standard absurd and baseless Christian wish-thinking.
________________________________

post-Babel dispersal is in view in Genesis 10:25, not continental drift.

Boris,
“No explanation as to how happiness and joy are different? I didn’t think so. Funny how you fundamentalists just ignore all the humiliating questions I ask you. Really funny. Really really funny.”
- If I answered every question you had, I’d be writing a book for each post! Here’s the answer…
Happiness – An emotion or feeling (which is fleeting and unsustainable) as a result of the current situation
Joy – A state of being that is sustainable. It may or may not lead to the feeling of happiness. Joy can be experienced even during difficult times that normally wouldn’t warrant it; because it’s not based on the current situation.
For example: As Christians, if a loved one died that embraced Jesus, we would know that that person was in Heaven. This would bring us great joy. Even though the situation warrants sadness and grief, joy can still be experienced.
Example 2: With the current state of the world, depression and despair are very prevalent and, logically, those states are justified. As Christians however, there is great joy in the hope that Jesus will come and establish His kingdom on earth. No more hurt, no more pain, no more crying, etc. It doesn’t mean Christians are always happy, but they can always be filled with joy.
With that said, let’s talk about a question you’ve avoided:
Why are there many, well-educated, intelligent, rational, logical, sane, successful, executive people that embrace Christianity?
And a new question:
What happened before the Big Bang? Where is the definite evidence of eternity (no beginning and no end) and how has it just always existed?
“Boris says: These people are not adult atheists but are people who already believe that there is some kind of deity.”
- Adult atheists? This is a strange comment. It almost sounds like you’re saying once people mature they will eventually become atheists. If not, they’re just living as immature children. Is this true?
“Boris says: Nothing can be proved to a dyed-in-the-wool faith-head. This is because you choose what you want to believe. I don’t.”
- Since you don’t have a choice to believe in atheism, then you have no free will? Does this mean that no one has free will?
“I didn’t change the subject – you did. I’m simply replying to posts that you have made.”
-Actually, my first post on this section was in response to one of your posts. Don’t try to pin the deviation on just me. It’s a 2-way street.
“Boris says: Can you choose to believe in mermaids or leprechauns? Don’t ignore this question.”
Sure you can. You can choose to believe anything. But, the difference between fairy-tale mermaids/leprechauns and the God of the Bible is credibility, evidence, history, tradition in existence today to support God. This is why there are millions, if not billions of people that embrace Christianity and not mermaid/leprechaun fairy-tales. Trying to compare (and belittle) the God of the Bible to mermaids and leprechauns can be considered an insult to millions, if not billions, but that’s ok, you’re just trying to free our thinking.
“Boris says: Because Christians are determined to force their religion on the rest of the world and do it by any means deemed necessary.”
- Using the words “any” and “never” to over-exaggerate points further supports the offense, bitterness, and anger you harbor towards Christians.
“In other words Christians want to create a religious caste system that puts Christians at the top of this system.”
- If the teachings of Jesus Christ were specifically focused on humility and servant hood, how can you possibly say that Christians would be on the top of any caste system?
From what I’ve read in your posts, atheists are the ones claiming to be the mature ‘adults’ who have to deal with all of the uninformed, unintelligent, uneducated, lowly, naive, pathetic, idiotic people that embrace Christianity (or any god). It sounds to me that atheists would be on the top of the any caste system in existence.
Regardless of all this banter, I’m still praying peace, love, joy, and hope into your life. I’m glad you’re still hanging around here

James,
I’m going to respond to your post but from now on I’m going to stick with the topic of the threads and not respond to questions that have nothing to do with the subject. I didn’t get on this blog to argue the pros and cons of Christianity or talk about science, creationism or the other things many fundamentalists want to steer the conversation toward. I’m on here only because I’m a long time listener to Jay Sekulow’s radio show. I’ve even watched the ‘Logan Show’ a few times. I’m interested in some of the topics on this blog and NOT interested in engaging in the same old tired debates.
You said: For example: As Christians, if a loved one died that embraced Jesus, we would know that that person was in Heaven. This would bring us great joy. Even though the situation warrants sadness and grief, joy can still be experienced.
Boris says: The Christian heaven sounds no better to an atheist than the Christian hell. Where is your evidence for an afterlife?
You said: As Christians however, there is great joy in the hope that Jesus will come and establish His kingdom on earth.
Boris says: Every generation of Christians for 2000 years has believed that Jesus was certain to come during their lifetime because the prophecies in the Bible were definitely being fulfilled by the unfolding of current events. Obviously this is a false hope and a gross misreading of mythology as history.
You said: Why are there many, well-educated, intelligent, rational, logical, sane, successful, executive people that embrace Christianity?
Boris says: Yes but they don’t embrace your particular brand of fundamentalist literal Bible believing Christianity. And when these people actually take a look at the traditions they’ve been handed mostly by their parents they end up rejecting them, 52,000 a week in this country alone.
You said: What happened before the Big Bang? Where is the definite evidence of eternity (no beginning and no end) and how has it just always existed?
Boris says: No one knows the answer to those questions. The law of mass-energy conservation, states that the mass-energy that comprises the universe always existed just in a different form before the Big Bang. There is probably no way to ever know what form that was.
You said: Adult atheists? This is a strange comment. It almost sounds like you’re saying once people mature they will eventually become atheists. If not, they’re just living as immature children. Is this true?
Boris says: Everyone is born an atheist. Then they usually adopt the religion of their patents and their culture as a child, whatever that may be. While the beliefs of Christians are, even according to the New Testament quite childish, that doesn’t mean all Christians live like children.
You said: Since you don’t have a choice to believe in atheism, then you have no free will? Does this mean that no one has free will?
Boris says: No. Just because we can’t believe something that other people do doesn’t mean in any way that we can’t make choices in the other avenues of life that have nothing to do with beliefs.
You said: But, the difference between fairy-tale mermaids/leprechauns and the God of the Bible is credibility, evidence, history, tradition in existence today to support God.
Boris says: There isn’t any more credible evidence, history or tradition in existence today to support God than there is leprechauns or mermaids. But isn’t just God we’re talking about here. It’s a whole slew of unbelievable beings and things like demons, angels, Satan, witches, Jesus, magic, talking animals and a bunch of other absurdities. Where is your evidence for the existence of those things may I ask?
You said: Using the words “any” and “never” to over-exaggerate points further supports the offense, bitterness, and anger you harbor towards Christians.
Boris says: Again, love the Christian – hate the Christianity.
You said: If the teachings of Jesus Christ were specifically focused on humility and servant hood, how can you possibly say that Christians would be on the top of any caste system?
Boris says: How many or what percentage of Christians actually try to live according to the teachings in the gospels though?
You said: From what I’ve read in your posts, atheists are the ones claiming to be the mature ‘adults’ who have to deal with all of the uninformed, unintelligent, uneducated, lowly, naive, pathetic, idiotic people that embrace Christianity (or any god). It sounds to me that atheists would be on the top of the any caste system in existence.
Boris says: Being at the top of the scientific, academic and intellectual communities the way atheists now are doesn’t mean that atheists would ascribe to any kind of a caste system. If society insists on putting us there then so be it. They’ll be better off for it.

Boris,
“Boris says: The Christian heaven sounds no better to an Atheist than the Christian hell. Where is your evidence for an afterlife?”
- The original reason for my example was to show a difference of “joy” and “happiness”. The afterlife is a belief of Christians so it’s an assumption made in my post.
- If the Christian heaven doesn’t sound any better than hell to an atheist, then I’m really not sure what to say.
Heaven = Eternal joy, peace, love, etc.
Hell = Eternal weeping, pain, torment, etc.
Unless you like the latter stuff, I don’t think there’s much of a debate.
“Boris says: Yes but they don’t embrace your particular brand of fundamentalist literal Bible believing Christianity.”
- May I suggest that a “Christian” belief, contrary or not written in the Bible, is not actually “Christian”? Regardless, there are there still many, well-educated, intelligent, rational, logical, sane, successful, executive people that embrace literal Biblical Christianity.
“Boris says: Everyone is born an atheist.”
- Not true. Since people are born with no morals, no judgment, no learned-behavior at all, they haven’t been given the choice to embrace Atheism as a belief system. Atheism is not the ‘default’. No belief in a god is still a belief based on current evidence, experiences and emotions.
“Boris says: How many or what percentage of Christians actually try to live according to the teachings in the gospels though?”
- Now this is a great question. Not many indeed. Hence, why there is so much animosity towards Christianity. Most don’t practice what they preach (clearly we’ve even seen this in this discussion section).
You may call me a ‘fundamentalist Christian’, but I’m only trying to live my life the way Jesus taught.
Thanks for hanging in there. I’m still praying for love, joy, peace, and hope in your life…

James,
“Just consider for a moment what their [the devout's] heaven looks like. Endless praise and adoration, limitless abnegation and abjection of self; a celestial North Korea.” – Christopher Hitchens.
You said: Not true. Since people are born with no morals, no judgment, no learned-behavior at all, they haven’t been given the choice to embrace Atheism as a belief system. Atheism is not the ‘default’. No belief in a god is still a belief based on current evidence, experiences and emotions.
Boris says: I’ll say this AGAIN. Atheism is NOT a belief system. It is the definition of a LACK of belief system about any Gods. No child is born with morals, judgment, learned behavior or any God belief. Therefore since a child has no God belief when they are born that defines them as an atheist. The dictionary backs me up on this and proves you wrong.

Boris,
According to Merriam-Webster’s dictionary, atheism is “a disbelief in the existence of deity” or “the doctrine that there is no deity.” A child is not born an atheist. They may not believe in a god, but they also do not believe there is no god either. (I know I used a double negative.) They know neither. Atheism is not the lack of belief in anything, but rather the belief that there is nothing. So, contrary to what you say, it is a belief system.
To reiterate what the previous said, Atheism is not the default.

Jeff,
You are attempting to distort the language to promote your archaic ideas and false doctrines. A (no) theism (God belief). A newborn child has no God belief and therefore they are all atheists. Atheism is NOT a disbelief it is a LACK of belief. A person who claims there is no God is defined as an anti-theist.
“Atheism can be the naked pursuit of truth, but anti-theism is more often the adolescent joy of upsetting and mocking religious people.” – Jim Rigby, pastor of St. Andrews Presbyterian Church in Austin Texas.
Despite the claims of fundamentalist Christians, no one is born with any beliefs about God. Those beliefs come through indoctrination usually from a child’s parents. One third of the world’s population does not believe in any deity. The rest wouldn’t if they had never been indoctrinated with archaic and absurd superstitions. That is what God belief is – an absurd superstition.

Boris,
On the contrary, you are wrong. The Merriam-Webster’s dictionary says it is a disbelief. You use the dictionary to prove others wrong, when in fact your position contradicts the dictionary. I’m not distorting the language, I just quoted what the dictionary says. Again, the DICTIONARY says that atheism is, AND I QUOTE, “a disbelief in the existence of deity”. That’s not me twisting it, that’s what it says. Subsequently, children are not atheists.
Speaking of absurd, it seems more absurd to think that the universe is a product of random chance. Looking at the complexity of even the most simple of life forms, as well as the most complex, it just isn’t using good judgment to believe it is all random.
Lastly, if I am wrong, I have lost nothing. If you are wrong, you’ve lost everything.

Boris,
“Despite the claims of fundamentalist Christians, no one is born with any beliefs about God. Those beliefs come through indoctrination usually from a child’s parents.”
- False claims of claims…You have already stated many times that I’m what you consider a “fundamentalist Christian”. With that said; I’ve clearly stated in my previous post: “Since people are born with no morals, no judgment, no learned-behavior at all, they haven’t been given the choice to embrace Atheism as a belief system.”
I (a fundamentalist Christian) clearly do not claim humans are born with beliefs in God; or no god for that matter. I said the exact opposite. These false accusations continue to point to your bitterness, offense and anger towards Christians. It’s not only clear here, but also with the Merriam-Webster definitions that Jeff has just pointed out.
Seriously now, don’t you desire to be free of the bitterness and offense that drives you? You may have convinced yourself that you’re ‘having fun’ mocking and ridiculing, but that’s just a camouflage of what’s really happening. It’s entirely possible with Jesus in your life.

“Just consider for a moment what their [the devout's] heaven looks like. Endless praise and adoration, limitless abnegation and abjection of self; a celestial North Korea.” – Christopher Hitchens.
-These types of quotes are grossly out of context. Let me explain: If I were a polemicist and Atheist like Christopher Hitchens, of course I’d equate endless praise and adoration of God (that I didn’t even believe in and had dedicated my life to disprove and oppose) to a “celestal North Korea.” What’s so special about that?
It’s all about context…
As a Christian, the belief in a perfect, agape-loving God; and the ability to spend eternity with Him in a perfect environment as Heaven, is extrodinary. In context, Heaven to Christians is…well, Heaven.

Jeff,
What is absurd is not thinking the universe came about naturally. What is really absurd is thinking that this entire universe was created just for human beings to live in. Everything for hundreds of millions of miles outside of this tiny speck where we happened to evolve after several billion years is extremely inhospitable to any kind of life as we know it. More than two-thirds of the surface of the earth is covered with water and man has no gills. Science gives us very plausible explanations for the universe and everything in it. It explains the unknown in terms of the known. Religion attempts to explain the known with the unknown.
Atheist: A person who does not believe in God – Webster’s Pocket Dictionary and Thesaurus. My 1874 version says: ‘Describes a lack of belief in any Gods.’ I do not believe that any God’s exist. I have a lack of belief in any God. Define that for me.

James,
I’ll say it again: atheism is NOT a belief system. Atheists don’t need strength in numbers to feel secure about not believing what the majority claims to believe. People WITH a belief system must do that. Atheists don’t get together once a week to reinforce what they don’t believe with other unbelievers by throwing their hands in the air and sing, shout and scream about what they believe or don’t believe. That is what people in a belief system do. There is no organized set of unbeliefs in atheism. It simply is a word that describes a lack of belief in any Gods.

“I’ll say it again: atheism is NOT a belief system.”
- Anything, and I mean anything that is not fact requires faith; and anything that requires faith, is a belief. Atheism is not fact, therefore it requires faith to believe in. Faith and belief go hand-in-hand. Atheism may not be a traditional religious ‘system’, but it’s certainly a belief that requires a choice to embrace; based on evidence, experiences and emotions.

James,
First the definition of a fact is a widely held observation. So claiming atheism is not fact is ridiculous. Again atheism is a LACK of faith. Most atheists don’t claim there is no God so they have NO faith that there is no God. Why can’t you grasp that simple concept? Therefore it takes no faith to be an atheist. You want atheism to require faith so you’ll insist that it does. But I’m an atheist and you are not. I have no faith. I would know and you definitely would not. If I said that I knew there was no god, that would take faith. But I haven’t said that. You’re the one claiming to know about God so you’re the person of faith, NOT me. Don’t bring this up again. I’ve proved you wrong six times now.

“First the definition of a fact is a widely held observation.”
- Actually, according to Merriam-Webster’s dictionary:
“Fact = a thing done, the quality of being actual”
So, using that definition, Atheism clearly qualifies as not fact. With that said, you are placing faith in something that is not fact. Therefore you choose to believe in Atheism.
“I’ve proved you wrong six times now.”
- Not at all. All you have proven is that you are bitter, have taken offense towards, and angry with Christians…and it’s driving you deeper into bitterness, offense and anger.
Jesus came to set us free from all that stuff. He did it for me and He can do it for you!

James,
Did Jesus Christ really live? Where’s your evidence? What’s your proof? Was there a man named Jesus, who was called the Christ, living in Palestine nineteen centuries ago, of whose life and teachings we have a correct account in the New Testament? The orthodox idea that Christ was the son of God–God himself in human form–that he was the creator of the countless millions of glowing suns and wheeling worlds that strew the infinite expanse of the universe; that the forces of nature were the servants of his will and changed their courses at his command–such an idea has been abandoned by every independent thinker in the world–by every thinker who relies on reason and experience rather than mere faith–by every man of science who places the integrity of nature above the challenge of ancient religious tales.
The scientific definition of a fact is that it is a widely held observation. The scientific definition of a theory is an explanation of the facts. I’m a science minded individual and tend to use the same definitions for words that scientists use. Words have no inherent meaning you see. They can have whatever meaning we give them.

“The scientific definition of a fact is that it is a widely held observation. The scientific definition of a theory is an explanation of the facts. I’m a science minded individual and tend to use the same definitions for words that scientists use. Words have no inherent meaning you see. They can have whatever meaning we give them.”
First you use Merriam-Webster’s definitions to support your arguments in previous posts, but when this source doesn’t support your arugments you go on about ‘scientific’ definitions and that ‘you’re science minded’. It’s always a moving target. Pretty convenient when debating…
“Did Jesus Christ really live? Where’s your evidence? What’s your proof?”
- There is no god? Where’s your evidence? What’s your proof?
Faith, faith, faith…we’ve both got it. The sooner you accept that the less angry you’ll be…especially at Christians.

James,
From the dictionary: something that has actual existence b: an actual occurrence 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
First of all your claim that atheism is not a fact is disproved by the above definition. Atheism exists, there are atheists, therefore atheism is a fact. I didn’t say that there is no God so I have nothing to prove and absolutely nothing to have faith in or not in. There could be a God but I haven’t seen any evidence for one and I don’t care whether there is a God or not. You believe there is a God and you care very much about this. So you are a person of faith and I am NOT. Case closed.

“There could be a God but I haven’t seen any evidence for one and I don’t care whether there is a God or not.”
So, if you believe that there COULD be a God, then you also must believe that Christianity MAY be truth. Good.
What will it take for God to show you He is real? Seriously, I’m really curious.

James,
If there is a God it isn’t the Christian God. That God has been definitely proved NOT to exist. The hypothesis of a God who selected out a huge desert tribe as his chosen people and communicated the law to them while they wandered in the Sinai Desert is falsified by the absence of evidence required by that hypothesis. The Christian God comes with way too much unbelievable baggage like demons, angels, Satan, heaven, hell, talking animals, absurd fairy tales and a bunch of other crazy nonsense. Proof that Intelligent Design is a strictly Christian hoax is the fact that all the ID promoters are also fundamentalist Christians who believe in angels, demons, Satan, Jesus, an afterlife and the rest of that crazy stuff. How does their Intelligent Design “theory” explain all that nonsense may I ask?

Ok, lets try this, since you believe there is a possibility of God, how would you define what ‘god’ is?

James,
Well that’s the problem James. I don’t think there is a God so how could I define something that I don’t think exists? Christians don’t know anything about any God either but not only do they claim to KNOW there is a God but also claim to know the attributes of this God and what this God supposedly wants from us. These claims are all nonsense because there is no evidence to back them up.

“Well that’s the problem James. I don’t think there is a God so how could I define something that I don’t think exists?”
- But as you already admitted, you don’t think there is not a God too; which leaves room for an actual God to exist via your chosen belief system. So, again, since you leave room for the possibility of God, how would you define what ‘god’ is?

James,
First, I don’t HAVE a belief system. Just because you Christians have a belief system and you base your entire worldview on this dogmatic close-minded system doesn’t mean that the rest of us live like that. I can’t imagine any kind of god existing at all. Science gives us very plausible explanations for the universe and everything in it. So I think we can safely assume no god exists. So I can’t define what God is except to say ouk esti theos – God isn’t.

“Science gives us very plausible explanations for the universe and everything in it.”
- As you have already admitted, there is no explanation as to where things ‘began’. To just assume everything just ‘popped’ into existence is what you consider plausible explanation?
And let’s not forget the most important question…Why?
“So I think we can safely assume no god exists.”
- Are you now stating that you don’t believe in the possibility of a god?

- As you have already admitted, there is no explanation as to where things ‘began’. To just assume everything just ‘popped’ into existence is what you consider plausible explanation?
Boris says: First of all, scientists aren’t the ones claiming the universe just popped into existence. That is the claim you Creationists make. We have no evidence that mass energy appeared ex-nihilo; and we have well-confirmed empirical observations that mass-energy CANNOT appear ex-nihilo. If we adhere rigorously to the scinetific method therefore, we are led to one conclusion: Our universe of mass-energy, in one form or another, always existed. The explanation for the current state of the universe is called the Big Bang Theory.
And let’s not forget the most important question…Why?
Who says that is an important question? The problem is that we ask the wrong questions. Asking why, as in ‘Why are we here?’ is like asking why does 5 equal 5? But we ask it anyway. The fact that life has no inherent meaning means that we each get to give our own lives whatever kind of meaning we want. What could be better than that?
- Are you now stating that you don’t believe in the possibility of a god?
Boris says: I said that it is possible that some kind of God exists but I see no evidence of any God so we can safely assume there isn’t one. I will state flatly that the Christian, Muslim, Jewish or any other God described in an ancient holy book does NOT exist.

“Who says that is an important question?”
- Besides the program I just watched on PBS? Just about everyone. I realize this is not important to you as it would severely question your belief system if you truly asked it.
“Our universe of mass-energy, in one form or another, always existed.”
- And that’s it? We all just accept that it just always existed without any idea as to how or why? That’s a huge, irresponsible (and very convenient) assumption.
“I said that it is possible that some kind of God exists but I see no evidence of any God so we can safely assume there isn’t one.”
- How can you say there isn’t a God if you clearly admit in the same sentence that there possibly IS one? It sounds like you’ve already made a choice not to believe in a god.

- Besides the program I just watched on PBS? Just about everyone. I realize this is not important to you as it would severely question your belief system if you truly asked it.
Boris says: If billions of people ask a foolish question, it’s still a foolish question. Again, YOU are the person who has a belief system, NOT me. I’m interest in in HOW things happen which when we find these things out usually leads to WHY they happen.
- And that’s it? We all just accept that it just always existed without any idea as to how or why? That’s a huge, irresponsible (and very convenient) assumption.
Boris says: Your explanation is that God always existed. And that’s it? We all just accept that God just always existed without any idea as to how or why? That’s a huge, irresponsible (and very convenient) assumption. Perhaps you should question your own absurd assumptions James.
- How can you say there isn’t a God if you clearly admit in the same sentence that there possibly IS one? It sounds like you’ve already made a choice not to believe in a god.
Boris says: I didn’t say I knew there was no God. I said I don’t think there is a God.

“Boris says: I didn’t say I knew there was no God. I said I don’t think there is a God.”
- Not realy. You said: “so we can safely assume there isn’t one.” In reality, that’s a NO.
Based on this “NO” answer, you are clearly of the Atheistic (nontheistic) belief system…denying the existence of a god.
“Your explanation is that God always existed. And that’s it?”
- So we both are making assumptions? Correct. It’s called faith. We BOTH have it.
“YOU are the person who has a belief system, NOT me.”
- Based on your previous answers, you clearly have belief system too.

You said: Not realy. You said: “so we can safely assume there isn’t one.” In reality, that’s a NO.
Based on this “NO” answer, you are clearly of the Atheistic (nontheistic) belief system…denying the existence of a god.
Boris says: You are distorting what I said because you can’t admit that you have been proved wrong. I never denied the possibility that some kind of God may exist. There are no logical or even sane arguments against atheism so you have to try to redefine it in order to attempt to argue against it. But your arguments are empty strawmen.
You said: So we both are making assumptions? Correct. It’s called faith. We BOTH have it.
Boris says: There is a very profound difference between faith and religious faith. I know what it would take for me to change my mind about things I happen to think may possibly be true. You claim nothing can change your mind about your beliefs. Therefore you have religious faith and I do not. Again you are wrong no matter how you may try to twist the language around to claim you aren’t.
You said: Based on your previous answers, you clearly have belief system too.
Boris says: I just proved I have no belief system. Don’t tell me what I have or what I believe. You have no idea what you are talking about or who you are talking to.

“There is a very profound difference between faith and religious faith.”
- Ahh, now rules change again. Very convenient for debate. In many previous posts, you have stated that you don’t have faith, but not you state you do, but it’s a ‘different’ kind of faith…scientific faith I presume?
Faith is faith. If I were presented with solid evidence that no god existed, I would certainly pursue that. In fact, I didn’t believe in a god for a long period in my life. So I have gone from not believing to believing. I still had faith in both situations, however; just as you do now.
“You claim nothing can change your mind about your beliefs.”
- I’ve never claimed that in any post on this site. You made that one up and I clearly addressed this statement above.

Boris,
What is your take on this?
“Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.(4Barnes, Thomas, ICR Technical Monograph #4, Origin and Destiny of the Earth’s Magnetic Field (2nd edition, 1983))Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth’s magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the molecules necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth’s entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.”
This was taken from Dr. Carl Baugh.

Jeff,
1. The earth’s magnetic field is known to have varied in intensity (Gee et al. 2000) and reversed in polarity numerous times in the earth’s history. This is entirely consistent with conventional models (Glatzmaier and Roberts 1995) and geophysical evidence (Song and Richards 1996) of the earth’s interior. Measurements of magnetic field field direction and intensity show little or no change between 1590 and 1840; the variation in the magnetic field is relatively recent, probably indicating that the field’s polarity is reversing again (Gubbins et al. 2006).
2. Empirical measurement of the earth’s magnetic field does not show exponential decay. Yes, an exponential curve can be fit to historical measurements, but an exponential curve can be fit to any set of points. A straight line fits better.
3. T. G. Barnes (1973) relied on an obsolete model of the earth’s interior. He viewed it as a spherical conductor (the earth’s core) undergoing simple decay of an electrical current. However, the evidence supports Elsasser’s dynamo model, in which the magnetic field is caused by a dynamo, with most of the “current” caused by convection. Barnes cited Cowling to try to discredit Elsasser, but Cowling’s theorem is consistent with the dynamo earth.
4. Barnes measures only the dipole component of the total magnetic field, but the dipole field is not a measure of total field strength. The dipole field can vary as the total magnetic field strength remains unchanged.
Texas “man track” enthusiast Carl E. Baugh claims to have “degrees in theology” as well as advanced degrees in science. Baugh’s “man track” claims have been evaluated and refuted on the basis of the physical evidence alone [1,2], but an examination of his claimed credentials is warranted as well, since by claiming them, Baugh has linked their validity to his scientific credibility and integrity. The issue not is whether Baugh should have a particular degree, but whether the claimed degrees are legitimate and have been represented accurately. There is no evidence that Baugh has even a undergraduate degree in any field of science.
Not having science degrees is no crime; however, misrepresenting one’s credentials is another matter. Baugh’s alleged science degrees appear to be as dubious as his “man track” claims, and ought to be of serious concern to his fellow creationists.
Google ‘Dr. Baugh’s fake credentials.’ Then tell me why you listen to frauds like him instead of real scientists.

Even if you ask Mr. Ahmadinejad (notice I don’t address him by President because in reality, with voter fraud in this year’s election, he probably isn’t the president) tough questions, most likely, people are not going to change his mind on the issues, especially since he is the “puppet” for extreme Islamic clerics. Since we all know what he would say, why invite him? I am shocked that the Mennonites support him as a speaker knowing their anti-war, peace-promoting stance. I am not criticizing their position, as one of my best professors in seminary was Mennonite and I learned a lot from her in the sense that peace should always be the first, second, third, etc. alternative. I modified this view to exercise war as the last resort since I am not a pacifist. What I mean is that Mr. Ahmadinejad certainly will never be a candidate for the Nobel Laureate Peace prize anytime soon or even in his lifetime, although he might win a trophy from Satan for killing the most Christians. Despite your comments Rev. Lynn, I still give him a thumbs down for speaking at any event that promotes peace via religion since this is an oxymoron for this controversial, religious extremist figure.