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Please note that in discussing political issues, candidates’ positions and political party statements, the Rev. Barry Lynn and Jay Sekulow are offering analysis in their individual capacities as lawyers and commentators. They are not speaking on behalf of Americans United for Separation for Church and State or for the American Center for Law & Justice. Those organizations do not endorse or oppose candidates for public office. Nothing contained in this dialogue should be construed as the positions of the respective organizations.
Your analysis, Mr. Sekulow, is unfortunately erring as to what is actually happening with this debate. First of all, the President is not asking for people to be turned in for disagreeing with the WH. He's simply asking that misinformation (a polite word for lies) about healthcare reform (that it's going to be single payer, there will be boards deciding who gets care, etc.) be sent to him so he can better address those concerns. Nowhere does it say to turn people in for disagreement.
Second of all, Speaker Pelosi did not call opponents unAmerican as you assert. She stated that disrupting the town hall meetings as many have been doing by shouting down Congressmen is unAmerican because it prevents dialogue from occurring. Senator Reid's statement is in the same vein. Quite frankly, the right has a bad habit of misinterpreting what rational people say as the same belligerent name calling they engage in. (Have we forgotten the unAmerican opponents of the Iraq War?)
Mr. Sekulow, I disagree with other bloggers and believe your analysis to be spot on. When it comes to sensitive issues regrading personal liberties I believe it best to err on the side of caution and protect freedom at all cost. The white house website is a slippery slope at best, and a better forum or tool could have been utilize to address misinformation. Some would stereotype those that do not support socialized medicine as somehow irrational. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are shouting at these protest because no one in washington is listening. Some seem to fail to mention the president and his advisers own words concerning organizing supporters from Acorn, etc to be at these townhalls to hold signs and shout down the protesters in an attempt to stir passions. but, somehow this is free speech and the other is "un-american". I choose to stand on the side of freedom. That is why I have flagged myself along with thousands of others that we stand opposed to socialized medicine. Join us...
Mr. Sekulow,
I agree to a point about your concerns over the "reporting" issue. However, I would have found your message much more believable if you had also spoken of the blatant lies and true disinformation that many on your side are spreading about the healthcare proposal.
Do you believe that lies such as those are worthy of Christ?
If people had FAITH, there would be NO NEED for a health care system...
2Ch 16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.
2Ch 16:13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
http://www.discoveringjesusfishing.net
As you have stated before, Dr. Jay, according to the Supreme Court, Americans have the right to petition their government for the redress of grievances. Since one of this country's birthrights is the freedom of speech, Americans should not be harassed and intimidated into silence for fear of being place on a targeted list by the government. Since pro-lifers were unjustly written up on the domestic terrorist watch list by the Department of Homeland Security, which was retracted thanks to the efforts of the ACLJ and the American people, the fear of reprisal is a real and present danger. This method of flagging people is a blatant violation of privacy and the right to voice one's opinion, which obstructs the very Constitutional principles this great nation was founded upon. For hardworking, God-fearing US citizens who love their country and the cornerstone ideologies of which America was established, these socialist behaviors are degrading and atrocious. Shame on you. Will the real domestic terrorists in Washington please stand up?
LeftisLost: I find it rather ironic that you state that one side is spreading lies about the national health plan when you do not even both to mention what one of those lies is. "I would have found your message much more believable if you had also spoken of the blatant lies and true disinformation that many on your side are spreading about the healthcare proposal" - right back to you.
Although it is crazy about this healthcare issue, I dont think the government is trying to silence anyone. What I think the government is doing is trying to find out is "what are the rumors" so that they can at least get the truth out to the American public. As you all know this site as well as others put there own spin on the truth. It's sad that there are so many lies out there. And we meaning you and I help to spread the "lies".
It is never right to sin even when the ends justifies the means. To tell a lie and no you are telling one is sin. God agenda can happen with out God's people having to lie. When we as Christian stoop down to other level and get in the dirt with them that makes us no better than them. Stop the lies everyone, both sides but especially us the Christian.
Silencing would involve cutting off critics' access to the internet, or refusing critics admission to town hall meetings, or denying them publication in the print media, or refusing to give them air time on radio and TV, or shouting over them so they cannot be heard, or even arrest.
None of these things has been done by the government.
In fact, the critics are guilty of some of these offenses themselves. Rep. Scott had the sign in front of his headquarters defaced with a spray-painted swastika. Rep. Pelosi did not say that those who protest the President's health care are un-American, although the liars have claimed that she did.
There are several bills under consideration right now. It will be necessary for the Senate and the House to reconcile the various versions and vote on one version. People are panicking over nonsense.
In fact, the amendment that is misrepresented as euthanasia for the elderly was actually proposed by a Republican politician.
I am fed up with the deliberate lies about health care reform. If these lying folks oppose it, that tells me that it's a darn good plan. It must be good to have them and the health care insurers so riled up and fearful of its success.
It is sad that people spread rumors and people lie about others. I do my best to tell the truth at all times. People have thought I have lied in the past, to the best of my knowledge I do not lie. I tell the truth from my understanding.
Cara
Cara,
I hear the theme from the "Twilight Zone" in my head every time I read your posts.
Oh! Didn't you know that it's okay to lie (aka bearing false witness) as long as you do it for Jeus, Ronlad Reagan and the corporate wallet?
Oh! Didn't you know that it's okay to lie (aka bearing false witness) as long as you do it for Jesus, Ronald Reagan and the corporate wallet?
How is Pelosi's (admittedly ill-advised) "un-American" comment any different from Mrs. Palin's "real Americans" comment?
"And Senate Majority Leader Reid has accused those speaking out against health care policies of trying to 'sabotage' the democratic process."
And it is. Those people are not "speaking" out; they're shouting out all possibility of any debate whatsoever. It's merely a (very loud) extension of the pervasive conservative/Republican 'response' of nothing other than NO!!!.
Perhaps if they came up with alternatives, they'd actually have a point. They don't. so they shout instead.
This is the very definition of sabotage, Jay.
Leftislost,
Re: "protect[ing] freedom at all cost".
Address for us please the freedom to choose one's own health care insurance plan, yes, even a public one. Why is the 'right' so against that? Especially for those who have no coverage whatsoever.
The phrase, "For hardworking, God-fearing US citizens who love their country and the cornerstone ideologies of which America was established" presumes that people on the left are not hardworking, God-fearing US citizens who love their country and the cornerstone ideologies of which America was established.
Pure and utter B.S.
Husband that is the picture they want to paint that will sway the weak minded people to there way of thinking. I am glad to live in America where I can have different ideas and not be thrown in jail. I remember one time the right was mad because people who were not paying taxes were voting. You vote because you are an American citizen but the right feels you should not be able to. That would silence a group of people but they dont see it that way because it would silence a group that does not side with them. We all need to stop and pray. Let the lies stop now.
Are the birds singing in the air for you, Boris. Great show, I might add. What about God Boris, did you forget about him. The God of the universe who created you? Or have you finally come to your sences and realized that your incredibly designed to the point that your brain is special.
Cara Floyd
Golly, Cara. Just this morning I heard that scientists know... not think, but know... that there are at least one hundred million planets just in our small Milky Way galaxy that are capable of sustaining life similar to ours on earth. Suddenly, my brain doesn't seem quite so special.
Jay, it's very easy to delete the name of the sender before you forward a message to the White House... that is, if you're really worried about a presidential hit list.
Honestly, sometimes people just do not think!
Mary-Lee,
Your brain is still special despite the other parts of the universe. I was only pointing out to Boris that, we are indeed created. Since he is a self-proclaiming athiest, I believe he wrote. The theory of being an athiest is purely impossible at this point, we are too complex of a being with too much capabilities to have been a blog of matter fusing into a regenerating organism with complex molecules which sustain life through blood and oxygen and thinking with reason of mind in tact. Nevermind, it is pointless to point it out to those who want to believe that garbage.
Cara
You creationists can't get it through your skulls that life is designed from the bottom up, simple to complex, slowly by natural selection. It was not designed all at once by the Christian boogyman using human-like top down design. Get over it. There is no God.
Here is what Nancy Pelosi REALLY said, in contextIn the meantime, as members of Congress spend time at home during August, they are talking with their constituents about reform. The dialogue between elected representatives and constituents is at the heart of our democracy and plays an integral role in assuring that the legislation we write reflects the genuine needs and concerns of the people we represent.
However, it is now evident that an ugly campaign is underway not merely to misrepresent the health insurance reform legislation, but to disrupt public meetings and prevent members of Congress and constituents from conducting a civil dialogue. These tactics have included hanging in effigy one Democratic member of Congress in Maryland and protesters holding a sign displaying a tombstone with the name of another congressman in Texas, where protesters also shouted "Just say no!" drowning out those who wanted to hold a substantive discussion.
Let the facts be heard
These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades."
Please note that she did not call the PROTESTORS "un-American" but she did call some of the BEHAVIOR un-American, the behavior in question is SHOUTING down opposing views so that they can't be heard. IOW, using free speech to suppress free speech. And boy, people on the right had NO PROBLEM throwing around the phrase "un-American" when people opposed Bush policies. All those who opposed the war in Iraq were called un-American.
tnxerf
"
There is a God, Boris. I am sorry that you don't realize that your heart and your lungs have to be going at the same time for you to exist. Which just the reason of thinking involved to make resonable decisions for processing information accumulated in your grey matter and stored for memory when needed, is impossible to be simple. You are very complex. Take for instance when you were originally conceived and the sperm hit the egg, notice the complexity of design when the great master designer at work starts processing your DNA into an eye, a brain, a leg, a heart, a nose, an eye. Take for instance your eye. Study your eyes and then get back to me. How light reflects back with an rainbow of colors. You have a sence of what is right and wrong built into you, who gave you that process? Simple, I think not.
Cara
There is a God, Boris. I am sorry that you don't realize that your heart and your lungs have to be going at the same time for you to exist. Which just the reason of thinking involved to make resonable decisions for processing information accumulated in your grey matter and stored for memory when needed, is impossible to be simple. You are very complex. Take for instance when you were originally conceived and the sperm hit the egg, notice the complexity of design when the great master designer at work starts processing your DNA into an eye, a brain, a leg, a heart, a nose, an eye. Take for instance your eye. Study your eyes and then get back to me. How light reflects back with an rainbow of colors. You have a sence of what is right and wrong built into you, who gave you that process? Simple, I think not.
Cara
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