Jay,
As one of the commentators on our blog stated, parent satisfaction does not define whether vouchers have been successful. So while I am sympathetic to parent testimony, it’s hardly a reason for changing my stance.
I have cited and linked to three studies by the U.S. Department of Education specifically looking into the D.C. voucher program and they show without a doubt that this program has come up short. I can also cite studies of the Milwaukee and Cleveland school voucher programs that show students attending voucher schools perform no better in reading and math than kids who stay in public schools. See these studies here and here.
It’s also important to note that the Zelman case only addressed the U.S. Constitution and did not address state constitutional issues. Thirty-seven states have a church-state provision that is even stronger than the U.S. Constitution, and voucher programs have been struck down in some of those states. Most recently, the Arizona Supreme Court struck down two school voucher programs, finding they were in violation of the state Constitution’s “no-aid” provision. This provision prohibits “appropriation of public money…in aid of any…private or sectarian school.”
Jay, voucher programs are only going to make public schools suffer because tax money that would ordinarily go to public schools now pays for vouchers. Taking away precious funding hardly seems like a way to improve our public school system.
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Previous Posts
More to Come
Barry,
It's hard to believe that we've been debating these constitutional issues for more than two years now in this space. I have tremendous respect for you and wish you all the best in your new endeavors.
My friend, I'm sure we will continue to square off in other forums - on n
posted 4:52:22pm Dec. 02, 2010 |
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Thanks for the Memories
Well Jay, the time has come for me to say goodbye. Note to people who are really happy about this: I'm not leaving the planet, just this blog.As I noted in a personal email, after much thought, I have decided to end my participation and contribution to Lynn v. Sekulow and will be doing some blogging
posted 12:24:43pm Nov. 21, 2010 |
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President Obama: Does He Get It?
Barry,
I would not use that label to identify the President. I will say, however, that President Obama continues to embrace and promote pro-abortion policies that many Americans strongly disagree with.
Take the outcome of the election - an unmistakable repudiation of the Preside
posted 11:46:49am Nov. 05, 2010 |
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President Obama is the "Angel of Death"? Give me a break!
Jay, I think you would agree with me that businesses have the right to hire and fire as they see fit. Fox News, per usual, has manufactured a controversy here, and that's all there is to it. But since you mentioned you believe Juan Williams' had the "right to express a thought," I'd like to at least
posted 4:34:02pm Nov. 01, 2010 |
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Juan Williams' Firing: Political Correctness Over the Top
Barry, it's the ultimate in political correctness. Losing your job for being honest - for expressing a feeling - a thought. The problem is that in the case of former NPR journalist Juan Williams, an honest thought - expressing a feeling - about Muslims and 9-11 - cost him his job.
posted 1:18:22pm Oct. 22, 2010 |
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posted August 10, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Sad to say Public Schools could never live up to the standards expected in private/sectarian schools. The reason being, public schools answer to everything, is more money. As a Catholic School graduate, our schools focused on character as well as curriculum. We had more than 48 children in our class,(because of costs) yet not one was left behind, or failed to graduate. Our teachers had no tenure, they had ethics,instead. Whats so sad is, because of our separation of church and state, some children will lose the opportunity for a better education.Many of these voucher schools, inspire children, not by separating them according to their ability,but instead, by teaching them that they all have the same ability to learn. Something every American I believe see’s as valuable.
posted August 10, 2009 at 4:59 pm
One thing that I am always perplexed by is the idea that, when confronted with non-performing public schools, the best course of action is to let a handful of folks simply flee. It seems to me that we still have children stuck at some of these inner-city schools without a plan to correct the deficiency. This seems akin to rescuing your children from a burning building and then simply walking away to leave others to the flames.
I think an important issue is that proposing vouchers is one way to let the government off the hook. If schools are unsafe and under-performing, the government has the responsibility to step in and do whatever is necessary to insure safety and academic progress. If we need policemen in every hall, so be it. If we need extra teachers, so be it. Given the issues of inner city areas, it will cost more to provide quality education in comparison to the suburbs. Shipping some kids off to religious schools does not address the needs of those who can’t afford to go elsewhere.
posted August 10, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Ellie Dee,
What world do you live in? Catholic schools are very much about money, charging up to over $10,000 a year and cutting financial aid whenever they get the chance. Teachers at Catholic schools also have substantially smaller paychecks than their public school counterparts. In addition to that, I know plenty of Catholic school students who have underdeveloped social skills because of the shelter those schools provide from life. it doesn’t serve them in the end because many end up alcoholics, drug addicts, and young parents just like many of their public school counterparts. I fail to see how that translates as better than public schools.
posted August 10, 2009 at 7:27 pm
“As a Catholic School graduate, our schools focused on character as well as curriculum.”
Yep…and any student who was a “problem” was invited to leave. Happens all the time in our local parochial schools. Johnny has a discipline problem…out the door. Jane is caught with cigarettes…out she goes. Mark has a special ed problem…ship him to the public schools.
When you weed out all the defective people, Ellie, you should be able to produce a superior product. Let the public schools do the same and we’ll see how well they can do.
posted August 10, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Rev. Lynn: As Dr. Jay stated previously, parents are not the only people who have expressed their satisfaction of the program, but there was also a statistically significant, scientific research study undertaken to prove the success of the program. These facts should not be left out or distorted. You mention five studies, which is notable, against voucher program, but these still are representative of only three locations within the United States. Therefore, these studies cannot represent ALL voucher programs in America.
People should have the right to select which school they want to attend with government aid if a neutral stance is taken on religion. Furthermore, there has been no research study to validate public schools will improve with more money. Other strategies and targeted areas of improvement need to be utilized. If a private school is better than a public school, can you blame people for wanting to send their children there? Why should public schools that are not up to par be rewarded with more funding?
posted August 11, 2009 at 10:54 am
Barry is continuing to repeat the same nonsense. Even if private schools weren’t better than public schools, they cost about half as much per kid, making them twice as efficient, implying that if we spent the same $12000 per kid for a voucher to a private school, the education would be twice as good!
Hiding the true costs in a socialist system is what the USSR did for 70 years until the whole thing blew up on them Finally they learned to privatize most of those socialist programs.
posted August 11, 2009 at 10:01 pm
I’ve never heard such nonsense. In every instance voucher schools were given a pass in everything from facilities safety to teachers’ credentials — and still they didn’t perform as expected. There is absolutely no reason why my tax dollars should go to support two substandard school systems.
posted August 25, 2009 at 8:14 am
That’s funny, Rev. Lynn. It’s obvious you care little about what parents think about raising their own children! My testimony is that when my firstborn son, Joshua went into public school, his teacher called me and asked to see our SAT test scores. He could not understand why my son was several grades ahead of his whole class in Reading and Vocabulary in the 5th grade!
Evidently Home Schooling is superior to public schooling! Not only that: my kids are better behaved than public school kids. They are friendlier, more polite, more kind and caring citizens, they don’t use profanity, and they have very high moral standards. Besides, during “Little House on the Prairie” days there were lots of home school families. It’s a parent’s God-given and Constitutional choice whether their children will go to drug and gun infested morally depraved public schools, or whether they will go to joyful, positive, outstanding schools of excellence at home!
posted August 25, 2009 at 10:12 am
They are friendlier, more polite, more kind and caring citizens, they don’t use profanity, and they have very high moral standards and they believe the sun orbits the earth because the Bible says so.