Mormon Inquiry

Mormon scripture

Monday February 16, 2009

Categories: Interfaith
This is the long overdue second post on Craig Blomberg and Stephen Robinson's How Wide the Divide: A Mormon & an Evangelical in Conversation. [See the first post.] This post talks about the Mormon view of scripture, with reference to the...
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Comments
Clean Cut
February 16, 2009 12:04 PM
http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com

"How Wide The Divide?" was and continues to be a watershed in regards to interfaith understanding. I continue to enthusiastically recommend the book to Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints alike.

Shelly
February 16, 2009 12:34 PM

I absolutely love the book. I have so many evangelical friends and hold them dear to me, yet misguided words can often put a dent in our relationship. I cringe when I hear anyone make fun of or condemn another's intimate faith. It just isn't correct human behavior on many levels. This book is a perfect for explaining the differences, yet showing the sameness as it outweighs the differences.

It is a great book to share with others without fear that you are proselyting or condemning, yet dialog can be made and an appreciation for one another can ensue.

Seth R.
February 16, 2009 9:42 PM

Problem is, Blomberg's qualifications on the Chicago Statement pretty much utterly neuter the idea of inerrancy.

Basically, in order to really judge the scriptures correct, you'll have to know all the facts involved, know the exact original autographs, and then properly interpret them.

In short, you have to pretty much BE omniscient for an inerrant read on the Bible to even be possible. And the Chicago Statement becomes more or less irrelevant.

As Blake Ostler pointedly questioned - "what is left but a pious-sounding noise?"

blooit
February 17, 2009 12:02 AM
http://fairlds.org

There is no denying the differences between Evangelicals and Latter Dy Saints, but those differences are no where near as stark as many would have us believe. If we were to focus more on the similarities (like this article) maybe much of the discord between the two could be bridged.

Great article!

Mark D.
February 17, 2009 12:03 AM

I believe strict scriptural inerrancy (even as qualified by the Chicago Statement) is a minority position among all Mormons with more than a casual familiarity with Church history and doctrine. We call it the doctrine of continuing revelation for a reason.

Of course, that doesn't mean that scriptural inerrancy isn't the working assumption with regard to most passages in actual practice. Innocent until proven guilty, more or less.

Clark
February 17, 2009 3:41 PM

Mark, I suspect "innocent until proven guilty" is the common view among Mormons. I personally think it a wise approach myself.

Your Name
February 17, 2009 4:55 PM

I appreciate the following, I hope to understand the LDS perspective on scripture....have any GA"s come forward (past or present) to flesh out this thought ??


Robinson ties the LDS view of the inerrancy debate to the LDS doctrine of continuous revelation. "For Latter-day Saints, the church's guarantee of doctrinal correctness lies primarily in the living prophet, and only secondarily in the preservation of the written text. This is, after all, the New Testament model. ... [W]hat makes Scripture theopneusos ("inspired," or "God-breathed") is not its written character but its revealed character."

I certainly don't agree with the position, but it explains why a thread on almost anything "biblical" can go 50 to 150 posts, and get nowhere.....lol...or not so loud.....

GERMIT

Brian
February 17, 2009 5:02 PM

Reply to John:
Your argument contains many fallacies that I just had to chuckle to myself. Nowhere in the article above does it say that Evangelicals or Mormons believe in the things you state. The article is discussing belief in the Bible and how can you refute the similarities that both religions believe the Bible to be divinely inspired?
And anyways, you are incorrect on the DNA testing evidence that you claim as fact. The DNA test results are inconclusive and have been unable to track even Jewish people back to their ancestors through the method used.
Perhaps you are the one who is being persuaded by deceitful tactics because I have been to websites like the one you have mentioned above and learned that the creators of websites like that one post items that they themselves know are incorrect to deceive others. Think about who might use some of the tactics you are claiming? You will find many errors that have been acknowledged by Biblical scholars such as Craig Blomberg and others on those websites but the people do not take them down because they simply want to feed the fire.

Troy Wynn
February 17, 2009 5:35 PM
http://somemormonstuff.blogspot.com/2007/08/mormons-and-bible-part-i.html

Stephen E. Robinson is much too willing to push his ideas toward traditional Christianity. He represents only his own beliefs, which would be foreign to many mainstream Mormons like me.

Inerrancy tends to mean that all knowledge needed for salvation is in the Bible. The Chicago statement says, "We deny that any essential element of the Christian faith is affected by the absence of the autographs," and "We affirm that Scripture, having been given by divine inspiration, is infallible, so that, far from misleading us, it is true and reliable in all the matters it addresses."

That is not what Mormons believe. The Book of Mormon says "there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book" (1 Nephi 13:28); "[and the Lord] shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them" (1 Nephi 13:40).

If essential things were not taken from scripture there would be no need of a restoration, which is one of the essential themes of Mormonism.

I have always believed that Bible to be mostly correct (~90%). But that many "plain and precious things" are missing thus hold only to the Bible will tend to mislead.

John
February 18, 2009 11:34 AM
http://www.saintsalive.com

I am sorry to see that you have removed my remarks of yesterday, yet kept a response to it..shame on you.

The book you have reviewed in glowing terms uses word definition manipulations and scripture twisting to make Mormonism seem what it really isn't.. Christian

Dave
February 18, 2009 12:26 PM
http://www.mormoninquiry.com

Shame on yourself, John, for posting rude and off-topic comments. Go read the rules of conduct set by Beliefnet (there's a link next to every comment screen) and abide by them if you want to post at this forum. If you don't, your comments will be delisted -- same rules for everyone. It's not just me -- Beliefnet has comment moderators who browse forums and do their own moderating. And no, I don't have any obligation to go cleanse the entire comment thread of references to your rude and off-topic comments. I have better things to do than clean up your online trash.

And while you're at it, do a Google search and read up on Ed Decker, the founder of your saintsalive outfit. You can start at the Wikipedia post. You'll find the lengthy commentary by his ex-wife quite informative. You'll also find the criticisms of Mr. Decker by other Christian commentators (many of whom are quite critical of Mormonism) rather interesting.

Dave
February 18, 2009 12:34 PM
http://www.mormoninquiry.com

Helen, no you can't just drop in and post ugly, off-topic comments about Mormonism at this site. If you have that sort of message to broadcast to the world, you can do so somewhere else than in my comments. You can, for example, set up your own website and post to your heart's content. Or you could purchase advertising to display your message in the ad boxes on this or other Beliefnet pages.

The comments section is for people who want to discuss the subject of the post and who abide by the rules of conduct for the forum. Few people have a problem understanding that. Sorry you don't get it, but that's not my problem.

GERMIT
February 18, 2009 4:04 PM

this is rather awkward, but I was shocked, and a little offended by the posts of some of my church sibs (using "church" in the broad sense of the word) My , admittedly , weak apology to the LDS audience here, if I were teaching a class in outreach, I would use the posts mentioned as how NOT to do it.... strong convictions do not have to come in that package...in my opinion

thanks, DAVE, for taking out the trash....someone has to

GERMIT

mars
February 19, 2009 2:39 PM

This is an interesting article. But my philosophical mind can't help but wonder something: why should this article presume that the mormon view is consistent? apparently to make a comparison, there must be a consistent view that is compared. but is that presumption justified?

the quote: We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

one can view this as it is presented here, as a reasonable limit, or, it can be viewed less charitably as license to solve doctrinal issues by insisting on a different translation. Some readers may be familiar with the papyrus that was allegedly translated by Joseph Smith to produce the Book of Abraham. Recent translations have found the papyrus to be nothing more than fairly ordinary funeral and burial texts. no mention of abraham or anything else from the book of abraham. therefore, to insist that the bible is correct "as far as it is translated correctly" seems to hold some texts to one standard and other texts to another. The mormon view cannot be both that only correct translations count AND SIMULTANEOUSLY that revelation and inspiration can float free from the text.


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About Mormon Inquiry

This blog is no longer updated and is closed for comments. We welcome your comments about Mormonism in our Latter-day Saints forums.

David Banack is an attorney living in Jackson Hole. He joined the LDS Church at age 15 and later served a two-year LDS mission to France and Switzerland. He has lived up and down the West Coast, as well as in Fiji, Samoa, Sweden, Utah, and now Wyoming. Dave has been running the Mormon Inquiry site discussing LDS and Christian issues since 2003. He is a website editor for Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought and also participates at the LDS weblog Times and Seasons. The views expressed on this blog are his own.

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