And so Benny the “Pit Bull” increases his pack. I hope George’s (O great, another George!) orthodoxy does not drive more from the pews and parishes. Then again, as a church that often welcomes those who have been cast off, set adrift, and simply tossed overboard, maybe we should be glad. It is always good to have new members!

Sounds like a winner to me! Just what the RCC needs, another dude to keep the church in the Dark Ages. Guess Benny needs more dudes in his little club to make him try and look good. Sorry folks, no forward movement here.
It is even sadder that George has a past of NOT handling abuse cases in a timely manner. That is REALLY sad. Can we say the learning curve in some of the higher positions in the RCC is really slow?

The last few (or more) popes have left people in power who will apparently do all they can to keep the RCC back several decades or more ago. Unlike one side of you, j, I hope this drives a lot of people out of the church; maybe eventually the cold light of economics will force them to modernize some of their important policies.

Bishop William Skylstad, who is ending his term stands out with his comments on the war, etc. in Iraq, like a rapid transition out of that country. I imagine the new Bishop will have much the same opinion, as Pope Benedict has, too. Here’s something we can all agree on, maybe.

Yes, Henrietta, it’s encouraging he’d say that. I hope they shout it. And I hope the opposite of “very rapid withdrawal” is not “keep troops there a long time or forever!

Agreed, Henrietta, and the sooner out the better.

Just read an article on the net about Gary Bauer, and his drumming up the conservative evangelicals for an ‘Islamicfascist’, new emphasis on the war on Terrorism in Iraq. Did you read it nnmns? (Advocate). Rudy is using the terms, and the other Republican runners, too. They are of the opinion that Christianity is in jepordy, and it is a war of religions, not terrorism. Vote Republican, and continue the blood, and distruction it sounds like. Anything to get into office!!

“George won overwhelmingly in a vote at the fall meeting of the nation’s bishops.” This means Pope Benedict had nothing to do with his elevation to the position. Rather, he was “overwhelmingly” elected by his fellow American bishops (sorry if that rains on anyone’s anti-Benedict parade).

I haven’t seen it Henrietta, but it plays along with some of the ideas we’ve seen on here. Probably popular with some types of Christians and some others.
I think “Islamicfascist” is a terrible term. It suggests to the sloppy thinkers that Islamic and fascist go together, which of course they don’t. But the bunch that was willing to gain political advantage by splitting the US through demonizing liberals in time of war certainly won’t hesitate to demonize the Muslims for political gain.
There’s not much that’s too low for those people.

Michael:
Don’t you find it interesting that the fellow has the same backwards ideas that Benny has? Means that the old dudes in the RCC are living in the past, and have elected someone who will stay with the outdated ideas. Also, George has a past of not handling molesting priests rapidly. That is not good. He is in the same age group as Benny. Is this why he can’t think about updating the “true church”? Married priests, women priests, equal rights for women in the church, allowing divorce without the need to call Benny for permission and I could go on.
Did Benny elect George? Not directly, but there is definately the influence of Benny.

I have been pondering my thoughts for hours now.
I still find this disgusting!
How they could have elected this man to be pres of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference is beyond me. As recently as last year his diocese was still engaging in the practice of allowing priests acused of molesting children to continue working with children….as well as the practice of covering up these accusations. Who knows…it may still be happening in Chicago.
My heart goes out to every priest who has molested a child. My heart goes out to every child who was molested. As far as the church authorities such as Cardinal George who enabled these actions….I have nothing but disdain.
I have often wondered why they did not get counseling for these kids…why they did not get counseling for the priests….the only answer that I come up with is they were more worried about protecting their image than they were about the individuals.
I find the election of this man to be noting short of disgusting.
With a profoundly sad heart….Peace!

Michael,
I hope you don’t think that Ben does not influence the inner working of the American Roman Catholic Church! This has his finger prints, epithelials and maybe even body fluids all over it!!
That Ben and I agree on the bloodshed in Iraq is simply good thinking on his part. OK, I’m being arrogant – so sue me!
That George was slow to surrender a pedophile priest is a very bad sign.
Gary Bauer is as tmely and beneficial as yesterdays fish wrap. His poor philosophical hygiene (as in his thinking stinks) is quickly becoming obvious to anyone who gets near it. I think he will find himself speaking to empty rooms. It is fear-mongering and any candidate who falls into that trap is likely to smell as bad. That Rudy is rolling himself in the same rotten wrap simply confirms why I would never vote for him.

Not every authority must be doubted and thought to have ulterior intentions. Its very pessimistically naive to think this is the case. We should rather hope for the best while preparing for the worst.

“>Not every authority must be doubted and thought to have ulterior intentions. Its very pessimistically naive to think this is the case. We should rather hope for the best while preparing for the worst.”
You kind lost me with the first part of this. Can you explain.
As far as expectations….I always hope/expect the best.
Peace!

“Don’t you find it interesting that the fellow has the same backwards ideas that Benny has?”
“Backwards” depends on one’s particular perspective. Many Christians, myself included, find the lion’s-share of the ideas which I am assuming you’re referring to as far fom backwards, but rather maintenance of orthodox Christian theology and belief in the midst of an increasingly relativized, secularized [heathen] world. I tend to feel that many Roman Catholics are disengaged from discussing these issues in any significant dialogue with many here because of the repeated condescensions chucked their direction (ex: it’s patently disrespectful to refer to the spiritual leader of the RCC as “Benny”). I know though, not that ya’ll care really.

(ex: it’s patently disrespectful to refer to the spiritual leader of the RCC as “Benny”). I know though, not that ya’ll care really.

“(ex: it’s patently disrespectful to refer to the spiritual leader of the RCC as “Benny”). I know though, not that ya’ll care really. ”
I have great respect for great religious leaders. IMO, the current Pope has done very little if anything to deserve respect as a leader. I repect all people. There is nothing he can do that would cause me not to repect him as a person. But, as a religious leader…he needs to earn my respect. Through his words and deeds I have little more than disdain for him. I do not repect leaders who perpetuate prejudice, discrimination, bigotry, deceit, and ignorance.
There are countless disrepectful terms/names he could and has been called. I hardly think Benny really falls into that category. IMO, any great leader that would be offended by being called Benny is too vain to be a great leader.

“[heathen]”
Ah, the sound of freedom to reason. I’ll happily accept that label.

Heathen, heretic, blasphemer, fool
I have been called these, and far worse. I wear each epithet as a battle ribbon – perhaps proudest of all of “FOOL” – but then, I am a jester!
Until RAT-zinger earns his title, he will remain Benny. It was he who chose to try diminishing any and all other paths of faith, calling his own the only true path. In his arrogance he pronounces all manner of judgments against anyone who simply has different perspectives.
I respect leaders who respect other people. I do not automatically honor authority or authorize honorifics – it must be earned. I do suspect skullduggery and mischief, especially in such a labyrinthine organization.
I guess that is why I am not, and could never be, a Catholic (large or small “c”)

I thought you might, nnmns.
~M~

jestrfyl,
Among other comments, you said “Until RAT-zinger earns his title, he will remain Benny” and you said “I am not, and could never be, a Catholic (large or small “c”).”
As such, for you, it is impossible for POPE BENEDICT to earn his “title,” as you apply zero credence to his title (or his denomination) anyway. With your preconceptions, POPE BENEDICT is innately incapable of respect (by his position and association), thus he will never be able to earn it, at least from you.
I’m left to assume that you are typically in that habit of using dismissive nicknames to all with whom you disagree.

Michael-
I can not help but notice that you seem stuck on the “title” but do not address the substance of the posts. So, let me rephrase the point.
Until Pope Benedict earns his title, I will have no respect for him as a Pope. It was he who chose to try diminishing any and all other paths of faith, calling his own the only true path. In his arrogance he pronounces all manner of judgments against anyone who simply has different perspectives.
Does this make it easier for you to address the points made? I do not know about jestrfyl…but, for me….I could and would respect him as Pope if and when he actually leads the many churches he is responsible for towards following the actual teachings of Christ rather than condeming others and displaying acts that appear very arrogant.
Peace!

Michael:
Benny earns his title of leadership when he proves to me that he recognizes other religions as equal to the RCC, not while continuing to put them down, as in his statements in the past of the RCC as being “the only true church”. I don’t predict this happening in his lifetime. Leaders have to EARN their titles. “W” hasn’t earned my respect either. The office of President I respect, but not the man in the office now. Folks have to live up to their titles.

pagansister-
Somehow you are not sounding like a devout Catholic nor, a dyed-in-the-wool Republican. What has come over you?
Peace!

Michael,
I have great respect for some of the Popes; John 23 comes to mind – and I (and many others) had great expectations for John Paul 1. These are people who honored, respected, and acted on the papal role as pastor to the people. I believe that ben16 has taken too literally his role of theological Rock – as in Peter – and uses his office as a bludgeon to command fear and demand obediance. So far I have seen nothing pastoral in the man or in the way he employs his office. I think his pointy hat and red shoes are too tight and that he uses the shepherds crook as a club. He manipulated his own election as surely as he manipulated this one. So Benny he is and Benny he will remain for me, until I see his hat loosen and his orthodoxical edge chipped by a pastoral presence.
As to employing nicknames – would you expect anything less from a person who identifies himself by a pseudonym? Surely, it is a mechanism to deflate the gassy and inflate the inauspicious.

JohnQ:
What has come over me? “I’ve seen the light” (said with the proper evangelical preacher voice)
Blessed Be

Just to make sure I have it right – unless the Pope abandons orthodox Roman Catholic teaching, and subscribes to post-modern moral relativism, he is not worthy of any respect. To my way of thinking that’s intollerance at its finest.

mnwillems:
What makes really old, outdated rules written in the dark ages correct? When those “beliefs” were written, times were certainly different, folks weren’t educated and the church ran their lives. If I remember correctly (and I’m not sure I do) even the RCC allowed priests to be married. Why they changed that, who knows?
It is the man, Benny, that I have no respect for. His lack of tolerance for other religions, following the archaic belief that the RCC is the ONE TRUE church is a perfect example of intolerance at its finest. I know that is a basic belief of the church, but this is 2007, and there is no ONE TRUE church. Each church is the 1 true one for the believers in it.

pagansister-
In the original church permitted priests to marry. St. Peter, claimed by the RCC to have been the first Pope, was married. As were a few other Popes.
Here is an iteresting site that outlines the history of marriage by Popes and priests within the RCC:
History of Marriage in the Roman Catholic Church
I have come across most of this info several times in several books unrelated to this site. So, overall I believe this info to be correct. Some of the dates, etc on this site are in dispute….I contend that even if some of the info is inaccurate…it does not lessen the validity of the rest of the info.
BTW, you do realize that the Pope is head of many other churches besides the RCC….16-18 I think. And, at least of few of those permit priests to marry.
Pax!

mnwillems
I don’t agree that the Pope, whoever he is, has to abandon the distinctly Roman Catholic voice. In fact, I have learned a great deal and been insopried tremendously by many of the voices within Roman Catholicism.
HOWEVER,
I also believe the Pope (whoever it is) has to honor some of the Gospel commands, like “When I was hungry you gave me food – etc…” or form the prophets “Love justice, do kindness and walk humbly with your God”. Ben has not shown any inclination toward this. He seems to prefer uniformity at the costof humanity, obediance and the cost of earnest questioning, and loyality at all costs. That is no way to run a religion or any intrnational enterprise.
The shepherds crook is a symbol of the pastoral task, which does inclde protecting and defending the flock. But it also symbolizes the caring and willingness to get right with the flock, rather than bopping a few fleecy heads from a distance. Moral relativism is simply a formal and distant way to say that rules take precedence over humanity. Life is messy (and so are sheep – hence the analogy) and no rules can do much to neaten it. Giving prefence to rules over the messiness of life is no way to model ministry.
It was obvious that John R was manuevering and manipulating the Vatican machinery long before JP2 has drawn his final breath. It sure looks like the machinery still works and that is has components in the US as well. No surprise.

Thanks, JohnQ for the information on the popes. Wish the RCC hadn’t changed their minds on the priests and marriage. Wonder what the church would be like if the priests could marry?