It’s about time that the RR came into current society. No one wants people to get divorced, but it happens. Score 1 point for the Evangelicals.

I’m glad that more legitimate problems in marriages are being accepted, but there is some concern that, as Mr. Grady said, people will think it is okay to get divorced for anything. Hopefully a healthy balance will be the final result.
God bless.

Can’t argue against reality. I wonder how long it will take them to begin to accept homosexuality?

First, the correct teaching on Divorce from God Himself is NEVER! I know that doesn’t seem practical but you can’t argue with the source.
Second, Homosexuality will NEVER be accepted. No matter how many think it should!

Well, regarding divorce and homosexuality, no sin is acceptable to God. Sin is sin. With sin comes judgment and death, and eternal seperation from God. That’s why God sent His son, Jesus, to take our sin with Him on the cross, in order that those who call on Him will be redeemed to God. Only then do we become a “new creation,” (2 Corinthians 5:17) and acceptable to God, totally forgiven and cleansed.
Regarding homosexuality, it is neither genetic nor a choice to be attracted to someone of the same gender. It is a lie—a deception, a false identity of the flesh. The homosexual who receives Christ as savior will inevitably find the sexual identity their creator intended for healthy sexuality.

Hopefully this change will allow more abuse victims a better chance at escaping bad marriages, instead of just being expected to put up with it and hoping for change.

I myself have been through divorce 2 times.Each for reasons that are acceptable in the Bible Adultry both times and abuse with the second one also to the point I had to get out of the state to save my life and that of my 4 children. I have remarried now and dealt with adultry again but with God’s grace we are back together and working things out. I know God disaproves of divorde it is written in the Bible. And He will help those who are willing to heal thier relationships.Marriage has to be looked at as a job we take on–it isn’t easy and never a bed of roses. But I think it is very very sad that we aare setting up future generations to think marriage is something you can try on like a new suit and cast it off when you feel like it. Ot should be harder to get married-and not such an easy thing to walk away from. When you enter into the covenent of marriage with another person-you should know what you are entering into amd it should be a sign to that person of your personal testimony of your truthfilness in your word.
I did find it sad that churches veiwed you unfit to sit in their place of worship-What in the world is a church for–”we all have come short of the glory of God” and should have the right to worship especially in times of true need in conflict. The chuches need to not only rethink the way they treat some of the duvorced people-but utmost they need to rethink the way they council people before the marriage.To stress the importance of being one in Christ and one together as man and wife and that marriage is to be taken seriously.
My father was a Baptist minister-and I know I made poor judgnebt calls in my life-but Dad tought me that NO ONE but GOD can judge us. We are to be supportive and help people out in their times of need-not shun them.

Mark Vilen-
“Regarding homosexuality, it is neither genetic nor a choice to be attracted to someone of the same gender. It is a lie—a deception, a false identity of the flesh.”
As a Christian, I can not condone your falsehoods, prejudice, bigortry, and discrimination.
Sexuality is not a choice….embracing and practicing prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination is a choice.
The prejudice-supportive heterosexual who receives Christ as savior will inevitably find the truth of Christ’s teachings.
As a life-long Christian who actually endevors to practice the teachings of our Lord (as opposed to beating people over the head with the Bible) I can tell you that I am a child of God. And, after years of prayful discernment I can tell you that God loves lgbt people just they way God made them.
Mark Vilen, BTW, I realized that it is not your fault that you are a heterosexual…..God made you that way. However, God did not make you prejudice….that is a choice you have made….and, through Christ you too can overcome this affliction.
Peace!

This was bound to happen.
So many very visible evangelicals are getting divorced…they either had to change their policies…or, continue living as hypocrites.
I have no doubt that as more and more evangelical leaders and their top assistance come out of the closet….they will also change their policies and drop the discrimination of their lgbt brothers and sisters.
Peace!

If one pays attention to Christ’s words in the Bible, it’s quite clear that the real since came with re-marriage. Nobody is saying that one has to stay in an adulterous or abusive relationship. But that does not necessarily give one the right to marry another.

Funny thing about Jesus lesson on adultery. Recall one of the lessons was directed to the leaders of the Temple and their supporters. In my very humble opinion Jesus was not concerned with the typical marital issues that have been a part of every generation. Instead, I think he used this as an opportunity to teach them they cannot be divorced from God. They may have been lusting after a tarted up Temple, and for that reason left all of their real responsibilities and important relationships behind (love GOD with all your heart mind soul and strengteh and your neighbor as yourself; love justice, do kindness, walk humbly with God; feed the widows, children, and immigrants). Like Hosea and Gomar, the marriage of God and the People was frustrating and shaky. Nonetheless, God is eternally faithful, and even thought the Temple did fall (like a wandering mistress) God was still there.
In terms of the Samaritan woman at the well, Jesus was forgiving first, then he admonished her. And she was a Samaritan! She may as well have been a mixed race lesbian single working mom on assistance or all the support she would get from the “good” folks in Jerusalem!
We need to get past this hovering requirement for rules and multiple ways to exclude folks. God loves us all, and in Christ we are ALL welcome to The Table. If you can’t accept this you may get pretty upset when you discover who is sitting next to you at The Final Feast (O’ How I love to dance to the Apocalypso Tango once in a while)

So, George, you’re saying that it is fine to stay in a marriage that contains violence, hatred, abuse,adultry etc.? Guess your interpretation of marriage and the love that should be in it is different than mine. Mine is of love & respect for on another, and many other GOOD things, not one that containes no love, abuse etc. Your god must have a strange view of marriage if he/she thinks the above mentioned actions (abuse etc) are the way a marriage should be.
Homosexuality will NEVER be accepted? Already has been by your divine being, as she extends her love to all, no matter who they love and want to be with. GLBT people are part of her family and she loves her family. Perhaps it just isn’t accepted by you…your sad choice. As was brought up in a previous post, it isn’t your fault that you were born heterosexual. She made you that way.

I always find it interesting that someone frequently brings up the issue of sexuality for a new article that it not addressing it at all. Of course it is a know subject for causing lots of irritation and argument (kinda like trying to start a “fire” by calling God “she”).

What gender is “God”? No one knows, do they?

Dear anonymous,
FYI, there are more than a dozen references in the Bible to God as the Divine Feminine. Read up on it – you’ll be surprised (though probably not pleasantly so).
As for bringing up sexuality, well, that and abortion and D-I-V-O-R-C-E are the “biggies” for evangelicans, so it is tangential.

God is a masculine entity, it’s very clear in the Bible and in his creation of man first and he created him as heterosexual. As for divorce I don’t believe it was ever intended. Jesus condemned divorce clearly, we just are not careful enough about relationships and our sexual nature, and we discount how precious people are.

cknuck:
Know why God is a masculine entity? MEN wrote the Bible, over, and over and over again. How can the men try and stay in control of religion? Teach that their god is male. IMO a god is what is in the heart of the believer….female or male, what difference does it make?
Also, how do you know a man was made first? Again, because writers of the Bible were men. Do you really think they would say their god made a WOMAN first?? Certainly not.
The church (run by men) tried to make Mary Magdeline a prostitute. She wasn’t. She was an important woman in Jesus’s group. Had influence. But the church couldn’t handle that,and taught that she was a “bad woman”. As far as many churches were concerned, women were only for procreation, motherhood, and to serve men. (what do you think nuns were for?) Sincerely glad that much of that has changed, in many religions, but not all.
You mentioned that your god created man first and that he was heterosexual. Does that mean that no man or woman would ever be anything but heterosexual? Of course not. Men and woman have been on this earth since the “beginning” of time. I expect that wasn’t mentioned in the Bible. But I suspect that your god would say “It is good”. (after all, she created them also)
As to the divorce thing, yes, folks make mistakes in choosing their partners, sometimes. I think your god is understanding and she wouldn’t want that mistake to be continued if indeed there was no solution to a situation. Apparently the evangelicals have come to that realization also , especially since their leaders are getting divorced.

Big correction: 4th paragraph: “Of course not. HOMOSEXUAL men and women have been on this earth since the “beginning” of time.”

Pagansister, have you read Mother God and Father God ? (two books) both by Sylvia Browne? Mother God is about the feminine principle. Very interesting. Also her newest book, The Two Marys, is just out.
Happy Thanksgiving!

Henrietta:
And a HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO YOU AND YOURS ALSO!
Thanks for the book suggestions. They sound interesting. As much as I like the discussions here, I love my books too.

Wisdom and power are the two expressions of God. Wisdom is feminine and power is masculine – not female and male. The whole gender thing lapses into the silly because it is so anthropomorphic. Wsidom and power require each other. It is part of the unity of creation. This is NOT – repeat NOT – to say a man needs a woman or a woman needs a man to be complete. These are expresseions, not actual tangible things.

Jest but the design is that man needs woman and woman needs man that was always God’s intent its people who have gotten it wrong but the design remains the same. And all wisdom comes from God but that has nothing to do with the sex of God.
ps i don’t think man and woman have not been on the earth since the beginning of time and I have never judged Mary Magdalene to be a prostitute neither has any serious scholar I know of personally. Most folk admit they really don’t know too much about her except the region she hails from.
H22, Sylvia Browne? Many would take her seriously but I wouldn’t, but I guess everybody has to have faith in somebody.

cknuck-
“Jest but the design is that man needs woman and woman needs man that was always God’s intent its people who have gotten it wrong but the design remains the same.”
I completely agree that this is the plan for some people. However, it is clearly not God’s plan for all people. It is not God’s plan for me. God’s plan for me and millions of other men….is another man.
Peace and Happy Thanksgiving!

ck
You are still focused on the genital issue and not the genderal one. We need both masculine and feminine in our lives, wisdom AND power. Our genital particularity may mean that one or the other is dominant and that we need to work hard on the lesser aspect. But it is NOT a requirement that Man and Woman need each other. I have discovered that in some hetero couple that if both are powerful and neither all that wise, there are problems. Some healthy couples are composed of a wise man and a powerful woman. Likewise, in homosexual couples one may be powerful and the other wise, and that balance allows for a long, healthy relationship. These were philosophical constructs given anthropological expression. Taking all of this too literally can only lead to confusion.

“the design is that man needs woman and woman needs man”
That only applies to HETEROSEXUAL men and women. Well, SOME of them, anyway.
To quote from the 60s (or was it the 70s?), “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”

These are just a few of the modern attitudes that promote the divorce rate. One simply cannot in their right mind beyond their personal agendas deny that the original design by God is why we are here. Anything else is a flaw produced by sin, not created by God.
Agreed jest concerning God himself it’s not about genitals but concerning man and woman it is and it is very important to God so much so His design “was” flawless. Only a flawless design could survive the conditions of the time, and only a flawed design could take us to where we are now. The flaws are from a spiritual component called sin.

cknuck:
“One simply cannot in their right mind beyond their personal agendas deny that the original design by God is why we are here.”
I must then be out of my mind!
You are free to do what you feel your god’s plan is for you, and others can live as they feel their god’s plan is for them….there is no wrong anywhere with that. Marriage, no matter how is is combined, male to male, female to female or male/female, all are equal in the eyes of the creator. That god/goddess or divine being (whatever he/she is called) wants their children to be happy. That is what is important.
No flaws….

There are many flaws one would have to be blind or in denial to not admit that fact. And if God had created same sex unions then we wouldn’t be here, (flaw,) or if it was His intentions, then SS unions would be able to reproduce.
If there were no sin then there would be no divorce nor homosexuality. Most people have no idea what happy is.

Although I do not feel hate toward those who are in same sex relationships I cannot say that homosexuality is not a sin. If you read your Bible you will find this is true as well in may letters that were written to the Christians after Christ death, burial, and Ressurection. So to me if the Apostles that Christ appointed, as the ones that would teach and care for the early Christians, warned and rebuked the Christians of the time to not have same sex relations the same goes for us. I do not believe that we should, as Christians, change because it has become ok within our society to commit these sins. We have been warned by the prophets of old that we should not change because something becomes popular..That would be like saying that looking at porn was ok (see Matthew 5:28), or that we could say we were tired of one of the Ten Commandments so we should not follow it.
Speaking of divorce now…I agree that we should stay with the teachings in the Bible..If we are true followers of the Gospel we should trust God in the situations that do not constitute divorce as described in the Bible. Christ said, “But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultry. And anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultry.” (Matthew 5:32) I agree that you should protect yourself and your children say a situation of abuse by leaving the individual, reporting the individual, using means lawful to protect yourself..It seems that divorce in marriage have become like breaking up after dating for a while.
Another thing for everyone to remember is that we should love one another and treat one another as we want to be treated. Jesus does not specify any gender or sexual preference in these commandments.
Oh, and do not judge lest ye be judged likewise..
I would like to know where in the Bible God is referred to as a woman? I have not come across this myself.
FYI, The NLT Bible had women on the translation committee for the New Testament.
May God Bless all of you:)

Sin is sin. Jesus made it succinctly clear; “…they are no longer two, but one flesh… Whoever divorces [sends away] his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces [sends away] her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”
“…but I say to you that everyone who divorces [sends away] his wife, EXCEPT FOR THE CAUSE OF UN-CHASTITY, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced [sent away] woman commits adultery.”
Paul states: “But to the married I give instructions, NOT I, BUT THE LORD, that the wife should not depart from her husband (but if she does leave, let her remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not send his wife away.
One must not divorce [send away] an unbelieving spouse, because the unbelieving spouse is sanctified through the believing spouse.
It doesn’t say divorce is okay if one is abusive or if they do not get along or if they are neglectful. NO divorce except for adultery. Period.
Got it? If you divorce for any reason but adultery and marry another, you are living in perpetual unrepentant sin and will be so judged and condemned. If you don’t want to be obedient to what Jesus Christ commands, you have no right to call yourself a Christian. [BTW, he said absolutely nothing about loving relationships between two people of the same gender.]

It says a lot about selfishness and attachment to sin when this tread about divorce in which many have defended homosexuality gets thirty responses and the article on hunger and homelessness gets two. The love of sin is a deep, subtle, and insidious thing.

Certainly is a good thing that the rules in the bible saying that a person marrying a divorced person is doing a bad, unlawful thing, ISN’T followed by the laws of the land. Unreal. A person gets legally divorced but if they want to follow the biblcal law, it says they can’t be remarried? That is unreal. Guess the divorced people who fall in love with some one else should just skip the remarrying part and just live with that person. But, isn’t that supposed to be “wrong” too? My guess is that most folks will just ignore that outdated religious law and remarry. I have many friends who have remarried and are living with that person, happily for over 25 years. Long time sining, huh? AND they are believers in god, and good Christians. So, updating a few biblical rules is a good idea. Many churches realize how out dated and obscure that remarrying thing is as well as the prohibition on divorce (except in cases of adultry. Right!) Sure is alot of happy legal adultry going on.
Think I’ll just stay with secular laws.

cknuck: You mentioned that you don’t think that people have been around since the beginning of time…that is an expression I was using. Obviously people evolved over time,from the ocean, after the earth was formed. That probably took zillions of years, but we, the humans, did achieve life out of the water. What we have done with that? A whole other topic.
As to the flaw siuation and no procreation with same sex relationships…true, but your god had a plan…she/he made folks who were attracted to different genders (for procreation) and those who have an attraction to the same gender. NO problem. Those who can’t physically reproduce together (2 women perhaps) can,if they want a family, have one impregnated without the use of a man, just his sperm, and 2 men who wish a family can adopt or have a woman (again with clinical help) carry a child for them. So families can be made in all cases, if the parties wish. OR not, just like hetersexual families. There are plenty of folks on this planet. Everyone doesn’t have to reproduce. The part in some churches that say “accept all children given by god”? forget it. Birth control is wonderful.

cknuck-
As far as articles on hunger and homelessness….I very seldom comment. I doubt anything I could post would cause anyone to change their beliefs on assisting those in need.
For the record, in RL I do many things to assist the hungry and homeless.
As far as articles on divorce/marriage I regularly comment. I do believe that my posts may encourage others in evaluating their beliefs. Sometimes just taking a stand and stating that I disagree with prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry causes others to think about their words and actions.
The more lgbt people who speak up and live openly….the more people who have supported prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry simply because they always have…and, because those around them always have….examine their hearts.
I believe it is especially important for Christians such as myself to take a stand against prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry.
Peace!

Casey.
“It doesn’t say divorce is okay if one is abusive or if they do not get along or if they are neglectful. NO divorce except for adultery. Period.” HAS GOT TO BE THE STUPIDEST THING i HAVE EVER HEARD!!!! If you want to live your life being beaten or downtrodden you go right ahead and do it, but no way are you going to convince most people other than other robot christians that that is what a caring God wanted for the people. Why should an individual suffer because of the bad choices made by their partner?
You are the kind of person who makes christians look like fools. You are the type that I will continue to turn from and why I shook off the bonds of that religion.
A Christian is a man like JohnQ who knows how to follow the actual desires of the word rather than the words of other men

cknuck,
Please correct me if I’m wrong; but I thought you’ve posted in the past that you are divorced?

No sinsonte you are not wrong I did suffer divorce before I came to Christ there was a painful marriage in which not only adultery but others sins cause us to seek divorce. I am sad about it but I’ve also moved on. I don’t know how much happiness one can recoup after such a thing has happened in one’s life but the grace of God through Christ is one of “go and sin no more.”
I feel from my understanding of the word that the sin of divorce can much like homosexuality be a ongoing sin, a purposeful sin, and a sin that grieves the Holy Spirit. I’ve repented and I pray daily that it is not my case. Sin is sin, but there is grace, I just don’t know how much.

cknuck-
“I’ve repented and I pray daily that it is not my case. Sin is sin, but there is grace, I just don’t know how much.”
This comes across as very arrogant. Something that I do not usually equate with your posts. Is your faith in God so weak…or, are you suggesting that you are so important that your earlier choices are so severe that the grace of God would not apply to you.
While we have often disagreed on topics…..I have great respect for you, you have often impressed me with your humbleness and I have a sense that your faith in God is quite strong.
Peace and God Bless!

chnuck-
It occurs to me that while God has already forgiven you….you have not forgiven yourself.
No offense…but, again this seems very arrogant of you.
The grace of God is with You!

John I’m sorry you presume me arrogant I would hope that’s not the case; I just assume I could not command or demand grace from God but that I may always seek it and if it is His will I might have it.
I also cannot reply to your indication of my faith being weak, it may be at any given time and I even doubt sometimes, but my weakness is helped by seeking God even in what I assume as His silence. The primary direction of my faith is in God I don’t always get it right like in my divorce but I love Him and follow Him and although not all of the time but more times then not I have complete faith in Him

cknuck-
I do not presume you arrogant. That was my point. Nor, do I doubt your faith. Most of us have times when we feel a deeper faith and other times when our faith does not seem so strong.
My main point…is that you know of God’s grace…it is your choice whether or not to accept it. None of us is worthy….that is the point of the grace.
Again, peace and may God bless!

What a most excellent place to end this discussion – grace. Like it or not, God forgives us all, even weak kneed, stiff necked, slacker, blurry eyed jesters. Ii’s greater than we can imagine and far more than we deserve. But then, I guess that is why God alone can really offer it – and sometimes even insist on it. So enjoy the gift, get up, dust off, and move along – there is stuff to be done, people to be welcomed, songs to sing and stories to tell.

I believe sexuality was tossed into the mix because it is another major point of argument in the RR community.
Here we see that they have chose to relax a previously held major religious belief about Divorce (something even Jesus spoke directly against), yet they maintain strict policies on other beliefs that were never mentioned by Jesus at all – like abhorrence for GLBT people, whom self-described Christians here have revealed in abundance.
So… where do they draw the line when it comes to selectively editing what they will and will not adhere to? If Divorce is now okey-dokey, what’s next?
Personally I just find this latest move to be another example of the hypocrisy in this particular community. “Do as I say, not as I do” or, “I follow all the rules that don’t apply to me, and erase the ones that do.”

I’m apparently in the minority believing that the condonement and/or acceptance of divorce is one of the major contributing factors in the family breakdown plaguing our country.
This in itself has led to many societal problems – as most of us are now witnessing on a daily basis (Self gratification has become the norm!).
Biblical bending is now in vogue by Evangelical leadership in order to passify the growing liberal masses & keep the money train rolling!
What kind of message does this convey to upcoming generations?
The children of tomorrow will pay an extreme price for the acceptance of divorce – ask yourself, where will the line be drawn – what to bend next?

ck,
“And if God had created same sex unions then we wouldn’t be here, (flaw,)”
The only “flaw” there is in your ‘logic’. Your hypothesis would only ring true if God in Her Infinite Wisdom, (I beleive the term is Sophia Pistis) had created ONLY homosexuals. She didn’t. Just like She created more than just roses – we also have daffodils, and tulips, and hyacinths, etc. I’m not sure who let you in on “God’s plan” for other people, but from my observation of the world and the universe, it seems God’s plan is variety, and lots of it.
“or if it was His intentions, then SS unions would be able to reproduce.”
You border on idolatry of procreation. And you (always) seem to forgget that not even all heterosexuals reproduce.
“If there were no sin then there would be no divorce”
So how come there’s so much of it in the heterosexual community?

ck,
You said, “The love of sin is a deep, subtle, and insidious thing.”
So you agree that divorce is a sin? Why are the people who commit this particular sin still allowed to get married again (Catholics excepted, of course; we all know they can never remarry civilly, eh?)?
Or, is the sin of divorce simply a lesser sin that is okay to ignore and make exceptions for, like, say, allowing thieves to marry. Or liars to marry. Or the covetous to marry.
This sin thing that so many heterosexual divorced, covetous, lieing thieves seem to “love” (your word) – you’re right it is subtle and insidious for society.

Rusiri,
You said to Casey, “It doesn’t say divorce is okay if one is abusive or if they do not get along or if they are neglectful. NO divorce except for adultery. Period.” HAS GOT TO BE THE STUPIDEST THING i HAVE EVER HEARD!!!! If you want to live your life being beaten or downtrodden you go right ahead and do it, but no way are you going to convince most people other than other robot christians that that is what a caring God wanted for the people. Why should an individual suffer because of the bad choices made by their partner?”
Actually, Casey is correct, The Bible DOES say that. I think he was simply pointing out to the “robot Christians” that sometimes we, as a society, make exceptions to Biblical rules. We do it because, as you observe, sometimes the Biblical “rules” ARE stupid. Like the one that says women shouldn’t be allowed to preach or even teach (there goes the Sunday School system as we know it, eh?), or the one that says we should put the victims of incest to death, or the one that says disobedient children should be put to death, or the one that calls eating lobster an “abomination”.
You are correct that people should NOT have to put up with an abusive partner, but the Bible omits that. I think we, as a society, made wise choices to turf out some of the Biblical “rules”. After all, we are not nomadic tribal folk wandering in the dessert for 40 years without electricity or refrigeration who need to rely on procreation or die out(the probable reason for most of the Levitical laws).

In the time the Matthew was written there was a period of betrothal and during this period of bethrothal if a woman was unfaithful to her promised husband while he was preparing a place for her then we was not required by the Jewish law to marry her. A person is not married until they concemate the marriage. The day that the couple concemated the marriage and were concidered truely married the father of the bride would take the sheet from the marriage bed in order to prove that she was a virgin when married. This way the husband couldn’t divorce her saying that she was not a virgin. During the betrothal period that has not been done which is why the term un-chastity is used. Even though they were not married biblically in that time once you were betrothed to someone in order not to marry them you still had to issue them a certificate of divorce. Therefore in the text mentioned above by many God does not give any reason at all for Divorce.
We must all make sure we do not take God’s word out of context. There is no exception clause God is a God of restoration not of distruction.