Good for him, and for them. Clearly there must be or will be chaplains that are not Christians and why should they have to wear symbols for beliefs directly contrary to what they believe?
Now let’s sit back and wait for squeals and whines about “taking God out of everything”.

I love it! A Lutheran minister turned atheist? Anyhow, he certainly did something that should have been done earlier. Why is it assumed that ALL chaplains are Christian? (or that the police force is all Christian?) Taking the cross off the official badge was the right decision by the court, IMO.
Yes, nnmns, there will most certainly be “squeals and whines about “taking God out of everything.” Isn’t life tough?

“A Lutheran minister turned atheist?”
I predict it happens a lot more than people realize. A thoughtful minister has occasion to regularly be thinking about his or her beliefs and their foundations, and that should be a good way to walk into doubt which should often lead to disbelief.

This doesn’t make any sense to me.
In the military, Christian chaplains wear crosses, Jewish chaplains Stars-of-David, Buddhists Mandalas, and so on – very recently, Wiccan chaplains have begun to wear Pentacles.
The insignia are clear that the officer wearing them is a chaplain, and give a rough-cut as to the minister’s religious tradition. And military chaplains of any stripe do minister to all persons of “all faiths and non-faiths” (other than liturgically, I assume), regardless of their religious affiliation, or they are not doing their job.
I don’t see why a police or fire department’s chaplains’ insignia (or responsibilities) must, or even might, differ from that.

This is the inverse Law at work! We get more upset about the little things and allow the BIG things to slide on by. Who really cares what emblems the chaplains wear? I think it is appropriate, for identifications sake, that all prison/jail employees wera the same badge, with other identifying pins, patches or tattoos to single them out.
People are hungry and homeless, the economy is demonstarting the Corialis effect as it heads for the drain, military folks are dying for one fmaily’s private war, the environment is changing faster than the American electorate changes its mind, and we are worried about badges! WE DON’T NEED NO STINKIN’ BADGES!

Sorry, jestifyl, but we do need stinkin’ badges if we are in a chain of command like police, fire, military or correctional bodies. This does matter and, although you are welcome to make jokes, do take a moment to notice that in these case, one’s insignia is a necessary identifier of one’s proper involvement in areas of confidential information, protected liberties and personal security. Who cares what insignia the chaplains wear? EVERYBODY BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT. Why not each tradition wear its own? Because, apart from the military, there is usually only one chaplain on duty at a time, often only one or two for a department. Their tradition should not matter; their presence should and it should be as standard, consistent and regular as the organization can possibly make it.

Why worry about the little things? Because the religious right will use them to justify their push of the big things. The second paragraph of your comment represented a lovely red herring logical fallacy, however you are correct in saying we don’t need any stinking badges.

If you all want to take god out of all government agencies, be my guest, but I will say this:
This country was founded on God and Religion. Making snide comments about people who do believe in God and his divine roll in this country’s formation is rude and it shows disrespect for others who do not share the same beliefs as you.
I do not for one second believe that anyone should have religion or non-religion forced upon them, but I also believe that attacking others for their stance is wrong. I respect your opinions and would appreciate that you would respect others opinions as well.

If a person was injured and lying on the ground and a man in uniform was bending over him I would think it would give a feeling of confidence in that person if he were wearing a badge that identified him as a Chaplain, because you would feel a person of character was attending to you. For myself I wouldn’t care what his religion was, but for others another pin ID of Religion above or below the Chaplain pin would be appropriate.
PS, I wondered why after 30yrs. he left being a Lutheran Pastor, too, but life has done a number on him and he chose to do this for whatever reason. It feels funny to hear you say he should have done it earlier, because I love my relationship with God and Christ Jesus. I don’t love my relationship, however, with the organized religion as it is now. I would never stop my beliefs about God because I didn’t like what Doctrine is doing to the teachings of God and Jesus, as I understand them.

“I respect your opinions and would appreciate that you woudld respect others opinions as well.” faithful29
It’s called discussion and most folks I have had discussions with on this and many other posts, do respect the opinions of others, but are free to disagree with them, thus expressing their opinion. (or agree with also).
BTW, this country WASN’T founded on God and religion. That is a myth, encouraged by ….yes, by folks who think everyone should believe in a god or divine being.

Henrietta:
Saying he should have done it earlier meant that if he had had as many doubts as he seems to have had, perhaps in his last few (or many) years as a minister he was not doing his job as a minister of the Lutheran faith. Did that make sense?

Gottcha, PS. It probably took 30 yrs. for him to come to his decision. It would be interesting to hear what it was that caused his decision, just like it’s interesting to hear everyones opinions about all these religious subjects. There’s always a new way to understand where a person is, when they communicate.

I AM A CHRISTIAN AND HAVE BEEN FOR 26 YEARS AND SO IS MY HUSBAND! HOW DISGUSTING THAT WE ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO “BOW THE KNEE” TO THESES “FALSE gODS” OF ATHEISM!!
GOD SAID TO “BOW TO NO ONE BUT HIM, THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY” AMEN!!!
HOW THEN, CAN A COUNTRY THAT DECLARES TO BE “GOD-FEARING” DO THIS BOWING OF THE KNEE? HOW VERY VERY SAD!!!

Uh, Crystal, this is of more interest to e.g. Jews and Muslims and Wiccans and so forth than to atheists. I don’t think atheists have chaplains though some time we might like some hand-holding and encouragement like anyone else. It’s the other religionists who might be chaplains and not want to be identified with a Christian symbol who have more to worry about here.
Oh, and atheists are the only ones who can have no false gods, as we have no gods at all.
And shouting doesn’t usually help make your point.

No one is making you do anything, Crystal y Miguel. You respect my non-belief I assume, and I respect your Christian belief. I personally don’t bow to anyone. This country isn’t a monarchy or a country of only one religion.(that would be some countries in the Middle East). You are free to bow to your god, and others to their god or goddesses, or have absolutely to believe in no deity at all. Religion in this country is SEPARATE from the government…for many good reasons.

Chrystal,
We would appreciate that your shouting be taken else where. If you want to comment as an adult you might be taken more seriously.
No one makes me bow down to them. Pagansister said it right. You keep your religion where it works for you and I will keep mine. I don’t care what you are but I do care being talked down to by a self righteous individual. I pity you that you must fear your god. Besides, when did this country proclaim the whole country as “godfearing” I must have missed that memo.
The point of the article was that the badge was representing the entire police force and shouldn’t have one faiths symbol represented on it. You would be appalled if they wore a pentacle on the badge I would imagine.
We feel the same about them wearing the cross. It was clearly stated that they were free to wear the symbol of their faith on their lapel.So what is anyone’s problem. Police represent every single person in their neighborhood, not just the christians.

Ruairi: I expect you know that the Wiccan chaplains in the military are now wearing a pentacle on their uniforms. Finally, as the other religions have their symbols on their uniforms.

Anonymous poster after mine
I actually agree that some sort of readily understood form of identification is important in emergency situations, and especially in prisons. (really, I just like quoting movies) For that reason, I think consistency is critical. In a crisis I do not have the presence of mind to sort out just what each emblem and insignia means. So lets keep them all the same. Let them choose whatever other means of distinct id they like and take it from there.
But, come on. This is not the most critical issue of our day. I would expect the warden, the director of prisons, the governor or someone to show some leadership, make a decision, and see to it that it is enforced. Tis amount of time and energy should be otherwise spent on prison reform and prisoner assistance (as in addiction rehab, job skills, etc)

How was a cross on the badge forcing anything on him? On the other hand, one grump is allowed to force his religious beliefs on the entire force. The only reason you liberals don’t see this is that it is going your way; if one Christian forced a large group of atheists to change, you’d have the ACLU there tomorrow.

Tim, as I read the article it’s only the chaplains that have the crosses on their badges so no one is forcing anything on the “entire force”. And why would, e.g. a Jewish chaplain want to wear a cross? If you hate mongers would read the article you’d realize this is not about atheists at all, except that a Lutheran turned atheist was willing to take the hatred that would come from solving the problem.
And the Christians can still wear their crosses, just not as part of the badge. Who’s been stirring you folks up?

If he were truly an atheist, why would he be offended by something that has no meaning? The fact of the matter is, that he, like all atheists, believes himself to be god, and worships at the altar of personal power. He just doesn’t like competition, so tries to eliminate references to it. The fact that a police department would genuflect to his lust for power over it is disgusting and sickening. Whiners, like Ideus, are given way too much leverage in policy making, and wobbly kneed “leaders” like Kirkpatrick need to step down.

“he, like all atheists, believes himself to be god, and worships at the altar of personal power.”
That’s nuts. a) Atheists don’t believe in gods, including ourselves as gods. b) I’m an atheist and I know all too well I’m no god. c) You are apparently not an atheist but you pretend to know how we think.
What else do you pretend to know that you don’t know? And where do you get your fantasies?

“If he were truly an Atheist why would he be offended by something that has no meaning”?
First the ex-Lutheran minister isn’t offended. He is trying to be fair to all religions. The sign of the cross has always been a symbol of help, as in Red Cross, and the Swiss St. Bernards wearing their sign of the cross, and keg of whiskey around their necks, in the mountains. When some Christians hear the word Atheist they immediately see an attack sign hitting them, and an argument begins. We’re living in a time of people listening to each other, and trying to come to a fair conclusion for all, no matter what our beliefs are. What’s the sense to be a Christian and not care about those who aren’t? Back to the St. Bernard in the Alps, I think anyone would be more than happy to see the sign of the Cross around a rescue dogs neck while you they laid on their backs hoping someone would come. However that is not about the cross on “all Chaplains” badges, it’s another situation, entirely.

Henrietta, good points.

As far as Wiccan chaplins I do not know of any. Sacred Well as far as I know is the closest to becoming an endorsing body for military chaplains. Don Larsen switched faiths from Christianity to wicca but was taken out of the chaplain corps due to thier being no wiccan endorsing bodies.
Now could a UU pagan chaplain choose to wear a pentacle mabye but I have never seen one.

Livindesert:
I read that somewhere and I can’t remember where. Also may have remembered it incorrectly. Thanks for the info.

No prob. You were probably thinking of the penticle VA headstone design which just recently got approved.

Livindesert: Right…it was the approval by the VA for the penticle design on the headstones….Thanks.