Man created the Anglican Communion. So, I highly doubt God cares that some Anglicans want to take their prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry and found their own communion with other like-minded bigots.
As an Episcopalian, I think it would be better if all memebers continued to commune. However, if practicing bigots wish to leave….they are certainly free to do so.
Peace!

It’s a whole lot easier to toss around words and phrases concerning bigotry then to actually look at the sin in homosexuality. Sin is usually easier to default to, that’s what makes sin so pleasurable and popular.
These Uganda’s Anglican may just be aware of the danger of sin, of which clearly stated in the Bible we Christians use for the foundation of our faith. I personally don’t blame them and in a large sense agree with them on the unnecessary added danger of homosexual leadership in the church. Homosexuality is a dangerous practice; in the San Francisco area recently a new infection was discovered in the homosexual community and if this happened in a area like Uganda there is no telling the harm it would cause.

It’s hard to believe that such ignorance exists in supposedly intelligent and educated people, however other Christian Churches exhibit the same mind-set as well, not just some Episcopalians. As long as Churches preach aganist Homosexuality murders will occur such as the 14 yr. old boy in Ventura CA at a Jr. High who murdered a classmate of 15yrs., because he came to school wearing feminine clothing, and it upset the boys in the class. He was probably transgendered or a cross-dresser, and nobody explained this to the children in class. We need to grow-up in this country and handle this part of life as adults and stop breeding hate and confusion in our children. This is not under the heading of religion people, it is filed under Science and Physiology.

“This is not under the heading of religion people, it is filed under Science and Physiology.”
One way or another, everything is under the heading of religion; God doesn’t make things if they don’t matter to Him.
God bless.

Your’re right Joey, and for parents and friends of GLBT who loved their little babies, toddlers, and grown children who were born gay, and if they were Christian were christened, and given to God as they were, too; they are very much loved and approved by God. To do other wise is is to put asunder, and then disrespect, abuse and murder is encouraged by the Churches inability to understand the findings of Scientists, and Doctors. In doing this it portrays a very bad picture of supposedly religious people, and I would think saddens God greatly.

One way or another, everything is under the heading of religion.
I don’t think Atheists would agree with that, I don’t think I do either. All things have an element of spirituality, but not religion.

“We need to grow-up in this country and handle this part of life as adults and stop breeding hate and confusion in our children.”
Another, less popular viewpoint is that we need to stop telling our children that morality doesn’t matter. We have bought into the lie that is normal. (by definition, it cannot be, so it therefore must be re-defined)
Also note that this criticism comes from somewhere other than inside the borders of the USA. Just because we are (arguably) the most powerful nation on the planet does not give us the right to tell everyone else what to believe. Nor does it mean that we should not pay attention when someone less powerful calls us on the carpet.

Although God indeed loves people He does not make them and has not created anything after creating Eve.
People create people and the sin in our lives have an definite effect on how our creations turn out, just as pollution and other elements both tangibles and intangibles on earth have effects on how our creations/kids turn out. Often when there is a homosexual murder it is the homosexuality in the murder that is speaking in act. There is no such thing as transgenders that is an impossibility, it all falls under homosexuality and how it acted out and spoken.

should be “the murderer that is speaking”

There is no such thing as transgenders that is an impossibility, it all falls under homosexuality and how it acted out and spoken.
Oh, are you some sort of scientist to make grand pronouncements like that? What are your credentials?
Often when there is a homosexual murder it is the homosexuality in the murder that is speaking in act.
I’m sure we could draw some sort of corollary to lynching.

Often when there is a homosexual murder it is the homosexuality in the murder that is speaking in act.
“I’m sure we could draw some sort of corollary to lynching.’
I am confident you could and no doubt would.

Obviously the Ugandan Episcopal church has issues with homosexuality. If they can’t accept all of their god’s children as they are with all that that incompasses, then “bye”. Wouldn’t want to have too much Christian acceptance of all of “GOD’S Children!” (and who they make love to).
cknuck, how is it that you know that God didn’t create anything after Eve? Adam and Eve must have had some incestuous behavior (or homosexual behavior) since they only had 2 boys, Cain and Able, and Cain killed Able.
Cknuck: “Often when there is a homosexual murder it si the homosexuality in the murderer that is speaking in act.” What the heck does that mean!

Pagan, There is no record of any other creation by God after Eve, but there is record of Cain encountering other people.
I am surprised that you do not understand the second statement.
Scott, you don’t have to be a scientist or doctor to know that it is impossible for man to change people’s gender.
I don’t know how the Ugandan Episcopal church regard homosexuals but I read that they don’t accept a person involved in the activity as leadership material when it comes to things holy.
I also thing when considering the act, (I won’t go into detail) they hardly think of it as “making love.”

cknuck-
“I don’t know how the Ugandan Episcopal church regard homosexuals but I read that they don’t accept a person involved in the activity as leadership material when it comes to things holy.”
Yes, that is why the terms prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry apply.
BTW, The article is slightly slanted. The Ugandans also have a major problem that we have a female clergy, female bishops, and worst of all…..a female presiding bishop. So, besides being prejudice against lgbt people….they also believe that females are inferior to males.
“I also thing when considering the act, (I won’t go into detail) they hardly think of it as “making love.””
Well, when one shares pleasure with someone they love….it is indeed “making love”. BTW, as I would think you already know….there is nothing that two men do in bed that straight/mixed couples do not do.
Peace!

cknuck:
Sorry, cknuck, but that 2nd statement makes no sense to me. Maybe it is just to late to think.

I dare say there are some more enlightened people in Angola but it will take some time for enlightenment to spread there as it does here. I hope not too many people suffer seriously in the meantime.
And life is really quite good without Christianity. If Christianity doesn’t accept you as you are think about that.

cknuck:
I just thought, if Cain met other people, then someone or thing had to have created them…or given birth to them. If your god didn’t make them, where did they come from? That’s why the whole creation story makes no sense. Evolution does, as people evolved over much time. Or how could Cain find other people after bumping off his brother?
Bet there were some homosexuals then also, that means that a god created them also or they evolved like the rest of us.

nnmns-
“And life is really quite good without Christianity.”
I am happy that life is good for you without Christianity! From your posts……I can tell you are a wonderful person and the people around you must benefit greatly to have you in their lives.
“If Christianity doesn’t accept you as you are think about that.”
Christianity accepts me just the way I am. Christianity accepts every individual just as they are. It is some prejudice-supportive Christians that have problems with the acceptance of some other people. They are still Christian…but, their actions are not.
Peace!

If the Ugandans want to break away from a apostate church in the Anglicans, then more power to them! The Anglicans have fallen away from Biblican teaching and made up their own to fit with the times. They will fade away into history just like the rest before them.

“They will fade away into history just like the rest of them.”
Probably not. Many churches have survived a break….the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox church for instance. They have survived for a long time apart, and they have different views on things. The Baptists have differnt parts, as do the Presbyterians, so I expect the Anglicans will also. Not a problem.

“I’m sure we could draw some sort of corollary to lynching.’
I am confident you could and no doubt would.
I certainly would when it would appear that those who were lynched would happily do the lynching at first chance.
Your words illustrated that perfectly.

There is absolutely NO difference between the civil rights struggles of the American black and the civil rights struggles of the American gay person.
I am proud to know that Jews took a leading role in the first and are taking a leading role in the second.

“There is absolutely NO difference between the civil rights struggles of the American black and the civil rights struggles of the American gay person.”
I agree.
Bayard Rustin and Correta Scott King thought the same.
Peace!

Brother cknuck saith, “Sin is usually easier to default to, that’s what makes sin so pleasurable and popular.”
Brother ck, if this is true then you have not been sinning very well.
Has anyone noticed who is complaining in this article. I believe the Ugandans have a whole bushel of struggles to deal with, and probably have little time for American squabbles. Human rights comes to mind. Homosexuals are only a portion of the gigantic troubles in Uganda. Maybe if they got a better sense of what “human rights” means they might not be so quick to launch into an attack that means little coming from them. If nothing else, there are a couple of churches in Falls Church and Fairfax, VA that might want to bond with the Ugandans.

Man may make the bodies our souls are in, but God delivers our souls to our bodies Cknuck, and believe it or not that is the essence of who we are heterosexual or homosexual. Nobody should take a chance on contributing to the distress of another. So many Christians are because of trying to prove sin. Think about it. Like Buddha said, “With our thoughts we make the world”.

Scott, to say the Jews took the lead in the civil rights struggle is inaccurate and shows your cultural bias and lack of knowledge. You obviously weren’t there and easily make assessments you know nothing about.
So it is easy to see why you would make cultural judgments on the Ugandans in such a glib and superior fashion. It’s called subtle bigotry. No group has a spotless history when it comes to violence and injustice, and no group is totally guilty or evil.

cknuck-
I agree that “No group has a spotless history when it comes to violence and injustice…..”
I think the Ugandans (and, others) are demonstrating that even today.

SRB-
“Am I the only one who’s disturbed by the condescending, patronizing tone that many posts are taking towards the (black) African churches? The comments that they are less enlightened, more subject to prejudice and bigotry, and less concerned with human rights than we (white) Westerners strike me as more than a little prejudiced themselves. But I guess one only needs to listen to voices from other cultures when they agree with what you already believe…..”
I for one have been at least as vigilant in pointing out prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry in churchs here in the USA. The high court of the Presbyterian Chruch of the US has just shown the same type of prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry.
Prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry know no skin/eye/hair color, no race, and no sexual orientation.
Peace!

“Am I the only one who’s disturbed by the condescending, patronizing tone that many posts are taking towards the (black) African churches? The comments that they are less enlightened, more subject to prejudice and bigotry, and less concerned with human rights than we (white) Westerners strike me as more than a little prejudiced themselves. But I guess one only needs to listen to voices from other cultures when they agree with what you already believe…..”
In this case the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

JohnQ I love the way you choose only a partial quote to comment on and used it to slam the Ugandans. Pattern? The rest of the quote read “no group is totally guilty or evil.”

cknuck-
I whole heartedly agree that “no group is totally guilty or evil”!
My point was addressing the first part….which I quoted. That is why I quoted only that part. The last part which you have quoted in your post in no way changes the first part of the quote…nor, does it change my point.
I will take the above sentiment even further, not only is no group totaly guilty or evil…..I do not believe that no individual is totally guilty or evil.
I still think it unfortunate that some of the Ugandan Anglicans have choosen prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry over the love of God.
Peace!

I think it is unfortunate that you would presume to judge their culture.

Ugandans have chosen the love of God…by following his Word.

JohnQ:
“I still think it unfortunate that some of the Ugandan Anglicans have chosen prejudice, discrimination,and bigotry over the love of God.”
Totally agree.
Blessed Be

“Uganda’s Anglican church threatened Monday to secede from the rest of the 77-million member fellowship unless U.S. clergy condemn homosexuality.”
Hmmm. Now let’s juxtapose some words and see how valid such threats are…
America’s Anglican church threatened Monday to secede from the rest of the 77-million member fellowship unless Ugandan clergy condemn bigotry.

It’s called a schism, and it happens all the time. As a matter of fact, most denominations and sects of Christendom in existence today were born of schisms.
It’s better to separate to keep the peace than to forcibly remain together in contention. There is nothing inherently wrong or overtly intolerant about Uganda’s adherence to Christian Orthodoxy. The GLBT Community ought to feel great relief that these adherants to Orthoxy have decided to go their own way, leaving gay believers to worship freely and unemcumbered by their constraints and convictions. The GLBT Community can’t make Orthodox believers stay in congregations where the accepted practices bring them condemnation. The Orthodox members of Christendom will never go against their beliefs that homosexuality is anything but an abomination cardinally forbidden by God, no matter how much they love people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered.
The Bible says that we are to pluck out or cut off the thing that offends, to preserve the unity of the brotherhood. So, all that is happening here is that the orhtodox body of believers are plucking up themselves from offending this particular reformation, allowing GLBT members to sanction the ordination of gay clergy without the offensive intolerance of orthodox teaching offending the GLBT members fo this denomination. And, that’s not a bad thing. The Bible says that one who is not condemned by eating meat should not push the eating of meat on one who is convicted by a belief that eating meat is necessarily wrong. Just substitute meat with whatever offense commonly separates believers, leaving GOD to judge in the end.

I’m not Anglican/Episcopalian, but I have friends that are. Many of them feel that the debate is drowning all the other efforts the communion has always done (and it seems to have reopened the debate about women clergy to a degree). Personally I keep reading articles where the African churches say they’re going to leave. So leave already, quit talking about it. That seems to be what this denomination does a lot: they talk a lot, they fight with each other, and at the end of the day they agree to disagree while all sides sit uncomfortably together for the sake of trying to live according to Jesus’s teachings. I hear some of them talk about their church almost like it’s supposed to be like the Catholic church where everyone gets along and they are ordered by some leader. But whenever you dare mention that if they want to do that that they should give more authority to the Archbishop of Canterbury they immediate recant and talk about how they don’t want a Pope. It’s so confusing. It’s like they want to be like the Congregationalists and yet they also want to be like the Catholics. Or maybe I’m just misunderstanding the Communion altogether.