I can’t think of one Pastor in my life that I would like people in my life to liken me to, why should Obama be compared in every way to Pastor Wright? There isn’t anything wrong with Wright he spoke his truth as he has lived it in his life. Who was the instigator that put these old sermons together and tried to put a suspicious finger on Obama? That is more disturbing. Don’t think it worked, but they’ll try again and again, plenty of time before fall.

As the Rev. McMickle says “it is inappropriate to assume that Wright’s words would also be Obama’s simply because he sits in a pew in his church.” I agree.

If you read Obama’s autobiography, it is pretty clear that he has an axe to grind against one half of his ancestry, the white one, and it was appalling to me the way he appeared to divorce himself from whites in general. There is a fine line between recognizing institutionalized racism and coming to the conclusion that if you are white, you are evil.
Many blacks jump that line when it is convenient and if Obama embraces that attitude and perpetuates it, it will be a shame.
And I say this believing still that he is the best candidate running for president.

It’s no doubt more truth than some people can handle. I hope that’s not too large a number of people.
Having said that, it’s a selective truth like so many are; it’s just that he’s selected parts of the truth white America rarely hears and of course won’t enjoy hearing. But we’d be a better country for being more aware of it.

God help any of the people who are held accountable for what I have preached in any of my congregations over the years. I have not had the nerve – or the encouragement – that Rev. Wright had to preach so boldly. I may not even agree with everything he said. But no one can say he does not have the same energy, conviction, and Spirit that any of the conservative preachers that have been the source of many media quotes, from whom we have heard far too much over the last couple of decades. Are their congregations accountable for their words? Of course not. That is the cost and joy of a free, unregulated( by civil authorities at least) pulpit.
Rather than condemn Wright for a couple of snippets, listen to a couple of his whole sermons. Even better, watch and entire service (a good sermon is tied to the whole of the service). You may discover some uncomfortable but unassailable truth. Or you might get totally p*ss*d off, but you will not forget what he said.

I watched what this so called preacher and what he had to say on my local news here in Chicago lastnight. the news actually had a question poll on this subject lastnight, asking if Obamma should take the blame for what this so called preacher had to say. first of all, I don’t think that Obamma should be blamed for someone elses stupidity and arrogance. second of all, how do you call yourself a preacher when your standing in a church preaching racism and hatred? I understand that there was slavery in America at one time, and there is still racism in this world on both sides of the fence. isn’t that racism itself when your standing in a church calling out white people and blaming them for all of the problems in the world? when are people going to stop playing the race card all of the time? when can we figure it out that we are all God’s children? when are we going to quit fanning the flames? why does it always have to come down to this, and are we ever going to be able to get past this?

I’m happy C. that you think Obama is the right one for President. Have faith in him and not make scenarios of gloom, that’s what the people who dug up the firey sermons of Wright want all of us to do. We should all be asking harder who started all this.

“I don’t think that Obamma should be blamed for someone elses stupidity and arrogance”
Good. I don’t either.
“isn’t that racism itself when your standing in a church calling out white people and blaming them for all of the problems in the world?”
I’m guessing he doesn’t blame them for all the problems but in that pale-skins have the most power and have benefited from it we might be expected to take the majority of the blame.
But there’s talking truth about blame and there’s beating it into the ground. Just blaming whites for the problem (and I don’t know whether that’s all he does) would not lead to a solution of anyone’s problem. I hope he’s also proposing solutions and that his church is doing positive things.
cknuck, where are you on this?

Hey nnms, it’s nice to see us partially agreeing and not always argueing on something. I can say that I have never heard any of his other sermons, but I would hope that they are all not full of hate mongering like this one is. there are problems on both sides of the fence, and thats the thing that I think all of us need to realize. I don’t think that it helps to have people like Jesse Jackson out there either. He says that he speaks for the opression of all of the black people in this world, but all he really does is make a name and a profit for himself. most of the black people that I know have a hatred for him and people like him, and feel that he just makes the whole situation worse every time he opens his mouth.

I am a white, gay, American male. As long as the Reverend Wright is NOT a homophobe, I agree with his view on our U.S. government. The African-American community has had ALL their rights trounced upon by racist, “cracker”, bioggots for decades/centuries now! I am embarrassed to be white, whenever some dumb white trash – whether it’s a U.S. citizen, politician, or religious “freak” – speaks about African-Americans in a negative way. I respect all human beings and am more evolved than dumb-dumb white trash.
> How would YOU respond, if YOU were African-American and have been “spit on” for over two CENTURIES? Yea, I’d be mad as all myself! We are all human beings first and foremost: GOD’S CREATIONS! There are many African-Americans doing great things all over America, to better our country. Wake up.

David W-
I have been thinking the same thing for days now. I too am a white, gay, American male. And, I agree with your post…(except for the part about being embarrassed). Although I think the USA is a great country….even as a white guy….I often feel like a second-class citizen because of prejudice-supportive people. I have no doubt it is far worse for blacks….and, even more so for black gays.
friendsaints&angels-
Have you spent much time in Bronzeville or the southside? If not, you ought to drive through a few times. As you do, ask your self how you would feel if you had been forced until the last 15-20years to live in that area. And, believe me….it is far nicer than it was 15-20years ago.
Trinity UCC has been instrumental in turning that area around. Go to their website and check out all the neighborhood ministries they operate. From AA…drug rehab….battered women….GED training….job training…half-way services….assistance and education for single moms….soup kitchen….the list goes on and on and on.
There is racism involved with Trinity UCC and Rev Wright…but, it is not on the part of the church or the fine man of God. It is on the part of prejudice people who keep throwing mud at the church and Rev Wright. I realize some people are doing this unknowingly by simply repeating what they heard someone else repeat from someone else rant. The Hannity’s, Limbaugh’s, O’Reilly’s, and Savages have been ranting on this for months….well, it seems that the number of people willing to mindlessly repeat their nonsense has reached critical mass.
Unless one has actually been to the church to see their ministries and/or attended mass to gain first-hand knowledge…then they are simply repeating someone else’s prejudice!
There is something amazingly ironic to hear white people claiming to be the victims of Rev Wright!
Keep in mind, Rev Wright is from a generation that suffered: church burning with half-a$$ nobody cared investigations….children denied entrace to schools….refusal of hotel rooms…refusal of service in restaurants….and grown men being called boy….all because they were black. Then of course we had to suffer through the likes of Gov George Wallace….Sen Jesse Helms….Sen Trent Lott…Mayor Richard Daily the 1st….and, the list goes on and on. Whats more…those men were not just very powerful…prejudice-supportive bigots…they were a part of and represented government.
So, do you really think that Rev Wright is going to have the same veiw of life in the USA that you do?
Peace!

nnmns-
I too have wondered where cknuck is on this.

JohnQ, thanks for the informed and thoughtful post. It’s quite valuable.

Well said,as usual, JohnQ.

Hey JohnQ, I heard and seen his racist hate mongering speach on the local Chicago news outlet, and it was exactly that. my opinion wasn’t formed by anyone else, I saw what I saw and it’s a damb shame that this man calls himself a preacher when he is preaching racism and hatred inside a church. call it what it is. if it were a white person in reverse it would still be racism, except that person would be fired and have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton picketing outside of his house.

“it’s a damb shame that this man calls himself a preacher”
If you are going to write about religion it’s crucial you learn to spell “damn”.

Hate mongering? Rev. Wright’s anger was for the injustices his race has had to feel in the past. There are some things all of us would have to disagree with, whatever our race is, but he was high on emotion and anyone would recognize this even the ones who are using his indiscretion against him and Obama’s campagin. I heard a lot of hate mongering by the fundamentalist ministers today against GLBT in their churches in a documentary, called “The Bible Tells Me So”. Some day this will be played in all Churches, and the words will seem hardly words that should be coming from ministers of God.

OK, if we are going to get all grammatical, I believe the proper use of the word is this, “it’s a damned shame”, as in the shame has been condemned, which is acutally a double negative so it actually means it is a blessing (the opposite of condemning or damning) – think about it. So, “Friend of S&A” is actually blessing Rev Wright – who would have suspected that?!
When I was a kid and we said a word that was inappropriate, my mother used to make us decline the nouns, conjugate the verbs, diagram the sentence, research the entymology, and explain how our choice of words was inappropriate. And we had to do this before we could leave the house. I can tell you any number of proper uses for improper words. You would be surprised how surrealisticly the “f” word is used once you sort out what a person said.

“When I was a kid and we said a word that was inappropriate, my mother used to make us decline the nouns, conjugate the verbs, diagram the sentence, research the entymology, and explain how our choice of words was inappropriate. And we had to do this before we could leave the house.”
Everyone should wish for a mother like that. Unfortunately not that many parents of either persuasion could do those things now. It’s a damned shame grammar was de-emphasized some decades ago.

Does Reverend Wright or his church forfeit their tax-exempt status when he endorses one cadidate over another, or engages in political activism as he has? If anyone knows where that line is; what the tax law statutes say I would appreciate your sharing it.

Wright is a prophet if you call people like Hitler prophets.
Gail

Hoist with my own pitard!
We had to look up the etymology of the word. Entymology is bug study. Oops. My mother would now require even more work.
Gail, Why is it prophets are demons only when they disagree with us. I think if you read Wright’s sermon you would find he anticipated what has come to pass – that the war wreaks the greatest havoc on the less affluent portions of our population. If you don’t believe me, then ask why does Prince Harry get trotted off to the front – even if only symbolocally, but neither of the Bush daughters has shown even the slightest recognition of what is happening?
Prophetic words are not easy or gentle, especially to the “establishemnt” and ruling parties. Just as itching can indicate healing, stinging words can indicate a philosophical infection.

Well said jestrfyl!

Indeed j, well said.
Gail Rev. Wright’s people (those he has taken it upon himself to represent) have suffered far more than enough at the hands of a white power structure and of individual whites to justify his anger. If you don’t realize that you don’t know enough American history. And if you can compare anyone in America today to Hitler you don’t know world history.

“As the Rev. McMickle says ‘it is inappropriate to assume that Wright’s words would also be Obama’s simply because he sits in a pew in his church.’ I agree.”
Well, I have to wonder, then, why didn’t he stand up and find a pew in another church?
Rev. Wright may be a prophet, but then again, so was Bilaam, who at least had kind things to say.
God bless…

Joey, haven’t you been reading the news on line and in the paper? Obama wasn’t in the church when the sermons being publicized were going on. He didn’t hear them. He also had Rev. Wright for his Pastor for many yrs., and thought of him as an Uncle. Does this give you a better understanding? Barack Obama explained to the U.S. how he felt about his words, and that was; that he didn’t agree with him. You must not like him, am I right? You’re not alone, the people that had to show these church videos to create mistrust also don’t like him, as well as the forwards of Senator Obama doing this, and doing that, even though everything has been explained, over and over. Very childish, mean, underhanded, what you would expect though at this time, and will probably get worse before it gets better. We can see through it though.

Joey:
If you have attended a church or other place of religion, have you always agreed with everything the minister/rabbi/priest said? And according to Henrietta Obama wasn’t sitting in the pews at the time the sermon’s were given. Even if he had been, it doesn’t mean Obama would be in agreement. Obama is distancing himself from Wright. However according to the news tonight, Wright’s sermons are not uncommon in some predominately black churches.
jestrifyl:
Echoing nnmns and Henrietta, well said!

In response to your questions:
1.) It seems strange to me that, given there were at least a few sermons like these, Obama was never there for any of them. Even if he hadn’t been, if Obama was really as close to Wright as he says he was, I find it very odd that he could have not been aware of Wright’s views. I know when my uncles are crazy.
2.) No, obviously one does not have to agree with every single position one’s pastor says; but the fact is, these particular views were very insulting, and seem to have been a pretty big part of the church’s beliefs, especially given the motto right outside their doors. You shouldn’t have to agree with your pastor on everything, but surely there has to be something bad enough to make you leave.
3.) Whether Obama actually agrees with Wright is actually kind of beside the point; the fact is, either way, he chose to attend Wright’s church. Even if he disagreed with some of the more racist things Wright said, the fact is, he didn’t disagree strongly enough to leave; even if he doesn’t think this country is the “U.S.K.K.K.,” fact is, he’s still willing to attend the church as he runs to be our country’s Grand Wizard. That may not make him a jerk, but it makes him a bit of a coward.
God bless.

I can take OB at his word that he does not agree with his pastor in these statements, but that makes him look stupid for not only does he have someone in his camp that thinks that way and he didn’t know it but he is unknowingly is in their camp too.

I hope Obama can explain this, especially his explanations. It would be one thing to make a stand on the values in this church and neighborhood, which sound quite good. It would be another thing to decide, perhaps in a panic, that the simplest thing to do is deny knowledge of it, knowledge that it does seem hard to deny.

Obama isn’t running for “Grand Wizard”, he’s running for President of the U.S.. Why should he leave his church, the minister isn’t the church, United Church of Christ is in charge of their churches. He’s been in Washington DC as a Senator he isn’t in his church from sunday to sunday like a normal go to work Joe that’s Christian. Why don’t you all just stop reaching for some deep dark sinister movement? Your judging is showing.

So far the score seems to be even: Clinton has Ferraro, Obama has Wright, and McCain has Hagee & Parsley (who barely count as a half wit together).
I am almost longing for another primary simply to get from this non-topic to the next non-news item.

There’s a fascinating article in Salon about Obama’s history in Chicago and the area he represented and some of the people he knew. Probably everything in it will be twisted and used as campaign fodder by Republicans if he becomes the nominee, possibly earlier.
You may have to pass through an advertising page first, to get there.
The article makes me think even more that he’s the kind of person we need for president. I’d be happy with Hillary but I’ve come to prefer Barack.

The artilce from Salon was interesting. As a representative of the wildly liberal United Church of Christ, I am honored by the characterizations being made about us as a group. We do care and encourage our congregations to “extravagantly welcome” outcasts, outsiders, and anyone who has felt left behind by their church-of-origin. Some of this may find its way into my Easter message, too.
I am sure that both Clinton and McCain have the same number of “difficult” friends and mentors. Would it benefit to ferret all of them out. Or is this the worst/best that anyone can find on Obama? If this is their trump card, they ave played it way too early. I am sure, given the dearth of political news for the time being, this will play out for a while.
I wonder if this sudden awareness of the UCC will generate any more interest from church shoppers. We certainly could not have paid for this amount of attention!

From the report I read, Obama gave an inspiring speech on race and racism today. I’ve not read the text yet but here it is.

nnmns
Thanks for the link. I read the speech. I think he nailed the point. It seems that only the most insipid and impotent commentators will continue to flog the argument. As he said, It is time to move on.

I’ve read it now and I find it to be excellent. He gave the background of Wright’s comments and explained where they are wrong. He rejected some of Wright’a statements but explained why he could not reject Wright. He explained in broad strokes what we as a nation need to do to improve the situations that lead to racism of all kinds. And he was eloquent.
It was a speech you couldn’t conceive of George Bush or probably John McCain giving or Hillary Clinton writing nearly as well.
Bill, maybe but Barack’s background is much broader than Bill’s, “black” as Bill is considered by some. And anyway, Bill can’t run.
I look forward to a president with wisdom rather than bullheadedness and eloquence rather than incoherent, one whom we don’t need to be afraid will shame us every time he speaks.

Read before you post; it’s so simple. Let me do that last paragraph again:
I look forward to a president with wisdom rather than bullheadedness, eloquence rather than incoherence. I look forward to a president we don’t need to be afraid will shame us every time he or she speaks.

I heard parts of the speech on a radio talkshow, and then read it on the site nnmns suggested. Most certainly will written and well presented. Will have to see if this will stop the harsh criticism of Obama and his relationship with Wright.