It sure seems like the school authorities did everything well and the case is closed. Now the student (and the adults who are sure to be surrounding him) want to make the case based on abstractions and philosophy. I am glad the court did not choose to go this route.

You could argue that it will set some kind of legal precedent or something (I’m no lawyer here, correct me if I’m wrong), but other than that, yeah; the rule was changed, the case seems fairly moot.
God bless.

Waste of court time and the Fed.’s did the right thing tossing it.

The best thing here is that the anti-harassment training for students is now in place abd being taught. This should educate the students and stop the bickering about how some religious students feel about Gay fellow students.

Homosexual groups seek to gain strength in the promotion of their lifestyles, “recognition as an extracurricular group” and at the same time muzzle any opposition to their homosexual philosophy.
It’s not hate, phobia or unkind to express your views on homosexuality after all even with science it’s all conjecture, except for the word of God.

Christian groups have also sought to promote their “lifestyles” by being recognized as an “extracurricular group” in some high schools. Would that be OK with you, cknuck? Or is it just gay and lesbian groups that shouldn’t be allowed?
Morrison wasn’t harmed by going to the anti-harrassment training. Some businesses require their employees to undergo the same training and high school students certainly could use it too. The fact that he couldn’t do what his religion “requires” him to do…put down homosexuality, means he will just have to wait until he is out of school and off school property. Then he can condemn those who aren’t heterosexual that I assume he is. Actually, his right to speak stops when it harms someone else.

Cknuck,
It is hateful to go out of your way to “express your views”. It is as much the right of the other students to have a peaceful high school experiance. It is nobodies right to tell them how to feel or believe. They shouldn’t be forced to listen to religious claptrap from anyone. If they want that they can go to church.
Anti harassment training covers many topics. The young man in question seriously needs it.
Saying it all is Conjecture just shows that you could use the training as well. It’s not all about the “word of God” for everyone. Keep your God in your church and out of the schools.
Besides what I have seen from my inner city “church going” students is that they don’t have a clue about what is taught in the church. All they seem to know is fighting, lying, and general rudeness towards anyone trying to teach them. Yeah that makes a good christian.

I was going to comment, that as a gay man, I thought every student, gay and anti-gay should have the free space to express their opinions.
But pagansister’s unbelievable statement:
“Actually, his right to speak stops when it harms someone else.”
caught in my throat. THis is anti-free expression at its core.
If I say, “pagansister has no concept of the 1st Admnendment.” This may harm her, but I’m perfectly free to say it.
If I say, “pagansister has absolutly no understanding of the Constitution.” This may harm her, but I have the right to say it.
If I say, “pagansistger did’nt read the main article carefully and misrepresents it in her answer.” This may harm her, but….
Goddess bless the right to free speech.

Yes, sinsonte, you have the right to say anything you want and you did, as to harming me…it hasn’t. But if I came up to you and said that your being a gay man is wrong and your going to hell (which I don’t believe, BTW)it’s possible that that could harm you…one way or another. Yes, it’s free speech but it can be harmful, especially in a high school setting. I am well aware of the 1st Amendment, and the right for free expression and all the stuff you mentioned above. However I personally don’t think anyone should have no thought for other’s feelings when it comes to what they say. (in some cases) And may the Goddess bless the right to free speech. Guess I was thinking of the emotional aspect of the situation, speaking against the rights of gay and lesbian students in a high school setting. Teenagers have enough to deal with, and those who are discovering their sexuality have perhaps even more.

“even with science it’s all conjecture, except for the word of God.”
The very existence of any god is conjecture and the existence of a particular god, say the one cknuck worships, is so improbable as to be virtually impossible.
As for free speech vs the feelings of people, that’s sticky. For adults I say let speech be free and let people toughen their feelings as needed. For minorities, be they blacks or gays or whatever, if people are using that particular property to make their life hell I say they deserve some protection. Probably that protection should be strong when they are starting school and weaken as they reach graduation. In college I’d like to see protection against organized bigotry but I’m not sure how to accomplish that. Bigots can be very hateful people and the best thing is to try to retrain them when they are young, which I presume that school program tries to do.

Free speech goes both ways. If a school allows a “Gay Day of Silence,” then in fairness, they should allow a student to wear a t-shirt that says, “Homosexuality is wrong.” What’s good for the gay goose is good for the straight gander. Yes, gay teenagers have a lot to deal with. And one of the things they have to learn, and quickly, is how to deal with those that find them and their orientation objectionable (for an example, see how I always get the best of cknuck). Nothing good comes from suppressing speech. It did’nt work years ago when gays and lesbians were told to hide themselves; it won’t work to ask the homophobe to do the same. Honest dialogue, however ulgy, is the answer.

I am always conflicted on these issues, but in the end I have to agree with sinsonte. While any talk that is directly abusive or harassing to someone should still be prohibited, we shouldn’t be regulating any kind of speech we find offensive. Talk of politics, abortion, racist propaganda, religious debate & discussion for/against homosexuality should all be allowed. It is perfectly fine for offensive talk to be deemed socially unpopular, but it must always be officially permissible.
“…in their right mind nobody would choose it for themselves or their children.”
No, I wouldn’t choose a gay lifestyle for myself. To be honest, I think the idea of having sex with another man is just…well, gross. But if gay men & straight women want to do it, why should I care? Other people eat foods I find disgusting & have hobbies I find boring, but that doesn’t mean I have to find them immoral or bad.

JohnQ and Ruairi, that is a common mistaken belief that has misguided many believers, there is neither a lack of knowledge nor is it hateful. A person’s personal belief and counseling are two separate things and also a true child of God will stand on the word of God without harming anyone. Our Lord once said the truth will set you free and it will but once a believer falls into the world’s philosophy then they are of the world pure and simple. But people like you would have people think if they don’t agree with you then they must be bad people (can you see that tactic?) it’s not so a true child of God uses the Holy Spirit as a guide not you guys. We are gentle but truthful and direct, for the truth is still the truth.

“for the truth is still the truth” as “we” [you] see it. But calling a thing true over and over doesn’t make it true no matter what Karl Rove claims. (It can, however, win elections unfortunately.)

In the Bible, Jesus Christ never spoke on issues of private morality. He spoke on subjects of public morality — his criticisms were reserved for religious hypocrites, the rich, the uncharitable, and the self-righteous. Over and over again we can read in the gospels about Jesus slamming the rich and self righteous but he never once mentions homosexuality, abortion, or other private matters which the Christian Right obsesses over. This young man’s lawsuit was based on a bad understanding of US law and faulty theology.

Actually Frank your remark is based on poor theology and mistaken information for Jesus spoke much on “private morality.” True he did speak to subjects concerning religious leaders but if you for one moment think that Jesus would approve of abortion or homosexuality then you have not let His word into your heart.
God said I knew you before your mother’s womb.’ And both in the old and new testament is “For this reason a man shall leave his mother and father to be with his wife as one.” Not with another man and if it would be acceptable to Him, he would had mentioned it.
Lawyer loopholes have nothing to do with truth.

“God said I knew you before your mother’s womb.”
I realize that’s as close to a comment on abortion as anti-abortionists can find in the Bible but it misses the mark by a mile. It says nothing about abortion. If your god had wanted to disparage abortion he’d have added “and I don’t want to see you back here till I call you!” or something such.
“and if it would be acceptable to Him, he would had mentioned it.”
See, even you say god or Jesus (same thing, right?) would have talked about a thing if it were important to him.
Of course god and Jesus as reported in your Bible didn’t say anything about either one which must mean, if we assume anything like your religion is correct, god/Jesus/holy spook doesn’t give a twiddle about either one. But you do, so you invent a god in your head that does. Unfortunately for you, you can’t rewrite the Bible to your liking (bet you’ve dreamed about that!) so you have to make silly claims.
The Bible says nothing about abortion and nothing at all clear about homosexuality and Jesus as reported in the Bible says absolutely nothing about either. Too bad about your personal whims, cknuck.

Thanks nnmns you are wonderful in your preaching and you make the Bible very attractive when you talk of it from you atheistic perspective. Thanks for proving my point with you lack of understanding of God’s word. I should be paying you. lol

So self-righteous Cknuck, kick Nnmmns all you want because he is an Atheist, but he has understanding of people and you don’t. God is pleased with much of him, I’m sure.

IMO, the idea of a God or THE God or any God is in the brain/eyes of the worshiper. No one has any idea what He/She is like, if indeed He/She even existes…that too is in the brain of the worshiper. If Jesus did exist, he wasn’t blond and blue eyed I’m sure, since he came from the Middle East. God…long white beard…grandfatherly looking…and most always white.
The Bible? Again written by men, using their imaginations as to what was or wasn’t said and done and translated lots of times, (how accurate were those translations?) updated (with deletions and additions) over centuries. How in the world can anyone think it is the total book on how to live? I’m assuming it is called faith in a book authored by lots of men (not women).
As to abortion and homosexuality? IMO women knew how to abort an unwanted pregancy for centuries. Since people are born with a natural attraction to either the same gender or the opposite gender, homosexuality has been around since humans evolved from their beginnings in the ocean.
Interesting that some folks feel that if it isn’t “mentioned” in the Bible, then it must not be OK…regarding abortion & homosexuality being acceptable. Maybe those guys doing the rewrites missed those paragraphs.

cknuck-
“Our Lord once said the truth will set you free and it will but once a believer falls into the world’s philosophy then they are of the world pure and simple.”
Our Lord may have said that….but, He did not say one word against homosexuality.
“But people like you would have people think if they don’t agree with you then they must be bad people (can you see that tactic?) it’s not so a true child of God uses the Holy Spirit as a guide not you guys.
cknuck, I have no problem what so ever with someone disagreeing with me. I do have a problem when people are limiting my rights….making me and our children into second-class citizens…..using their personal beliefs to promote prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry.
If you and others do not wish to make love with someone of the same gender…fine. If you do not wish to marry someone of the same gender….fine. If you do not wish to adopt children with a partner of the same gender….fine. I have no problem with your personal decisions that effect you. I have an ever increasing problem with people who use their personal beliefs to limit my freedom.
Peace!

cont’d from above
I do not copy you are anyone else on my prayers throughout the day….I hardly think that the Holy Spirit is copying you on the replies.
How you can possibly presume to know my personal relationship with God is beyond me!
Peace!

There are 613 commandments/prohibitions in the Old Testament.
Q-Do you know how a Fundamentalist knows which ones still apply?
A-If it is something they personally are doing…it does not apply….if it is something someone else is doing….it does apply.
The same goes for things not mentioned in the Bible and/or by Our Lord. If it is something they (fundamentalist) support….then even though it is not mentioned in the Bible or mentioned by Our Lord….then, it is something God supports….because after all….if God were against it….it would have been mentioned.
If it is something that they (fundamentalist) are against….then, because the Bible/Our Lord did not mention it…then God too is against it…..otherwise, the Bible/Our Lord would have said something in support.
As a Christian, I am weary of continually being hit over that head with the Bible…..I can not imagine how a non-Christian must feel.
Peace!

JohnQ: “……I can not imagine how a non-Christian must feel.”
Though I cannot speak for other non-Christians, personally having some one quote things to me out of the Bible, to use against me, doesn’t bother me. I don’t accept it as my guide to life. However, you are a Christian, and a devout one and you happen to be gay. You believe in the Bible and it’s teachings, and they are important to you. Having the Bible used against you by those out to get you because you happen to be a gay man, should make you weary. Hang in there.

i am cool with gays and all…but how come so many schools will allow gay-straight alliances yet not allow bible studies to occur? how come gay tolerance is allowed to be professed, yet not traditional Christian values? (by the way, i am no christian, mind you.)
the point is, how come “tolerance” is allowed to be professed on academic grounds, yet not those of traditional or more conservative values?

To try to eliminate the commands of the God in the Bible by editing them to ignore the fact that homosexuality is indeed a sin is not Christian JohnQ not to say you are by yourself many do it to satisfy their desire for sin. It’s no different then the sin of gluttony, or divorce, or adultery, but it still is a sin and one that is chosen repeatedly. That is why this and many other kids what to state their views on homosexuality.
Whatever you want to call family is what you what to call family but it is not how God created family, but then again you can just ignore that part of the Bible, and Jesus did also define marriage and family. I don’t remember any definition that included man on man or woman on woman, it seems to me He would have mention it if it meant His approval and He did mention all of the things He changed from the Old Testament but not that one. Because it remains the same a abomination to God. It’s important that Chistians know the right information or else they will look just like everyone else.

“how come so many schools will allow gay-straight alliances yet not allow bible studies to occur?”
This is comparing apples to onions. One is a group of people who want to form a club, likely to help prevent a common bigotry. The other is a group of people who want to form a club to advance one particular religion. I think some schools have classes in which the Bible is studied as an academic study and I and the Constitution have no problem with that.
“how come gay tolerance is allowed to be professed, yet not traditional Christian values?”
“values”? Are you saying it’s a value to be intolerant of some of our fellow humans based on their biology? Happily there are tolerant Christians, some who post here, who put the lie to your implied claim Christianity requires intolerance to gays. Just because some Christians have quoted their Bibles in order to be intolerant to gays and to blacks doesn’t make such intolerance a Christian tradition. It just means those Christians who did such things were/are faulty.
Now you can argue the Bible makes those faults, and some others, easier to argue for (as we see all too often here) and I’d agree the Bible needs to be cleaned up a lot or just replaced. But since that’s unlikely, people just need to be vigilant to be sure such bigotry is pointed out and hopefully eventually stamped out.
Since you aren’t a Christian, |, I take it you are a conservative. So it’s really conservative values to be intolerant to some of our fellow citizens based on an accident of birth you are defending. Well I used to be a conservative and let me tell you, bigots like you give it a bad name. You can win the occasional election by whining about blacks or homosexuals or women but you divide the country and you are no patriot.

cknuck-
The original word for “sin” used in the earliest existing Biblical texts means “missing the mark” or “to miss the mark”.
So, I am not sure it is possible to have “an appetite to sin”. Perhaps one can have an appetite/desire for each of the different things that many people think constitutes “sin”…..such as: an appetite/desire for too much food, to bear false witness, etc….however, I do not think one can have an appetite to specifically go out and commit “sin” for the sake of committing “sin”.
So, what do you think should happen to children that straight people have with abandon and then abandon them? Since, apparently those straight people are not inclined to responsibly care for these children….and, only a male-female can (in your opinion) create a family…what should happen to these children. Should they be told that your biological parents do not love and respect you…there for they do not provide care. So, you must grow up in an institution rather than a family created by two people of the same gender.
Really cknuck, what should happen to the millions of children that are in families headed by two people of the same gender?
Peace!

The rules in the Bible are not the substance of Christianity. Christianity is about love and respect. Not about rules. Over the centuries many, many people have followed Paul’s lead by focusing in on rules and missing the point/substance/heart of Christianity.
Sad, very sad.
Peace!

JohnQ wrote: “Christianity is about love and respect. Not about rules. Over the centuries many, many people have followed Paul’s lead by focusing in on rules and missing the point/substance/heart of Christianity.”
While I agree with your first point, I don’t understand the second at all. Paul is the one who wrote: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” He also wrote: “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[fn1] but have not love, it profits me nothing.” You may also want to read his letter to the Galatians, which is all about Gospel over Law. I don’t understand how you could come to the conclusion that Paul focused on rules over love and gospel.

nnmns first of all your assault on the mystery poster is unjust and simply an assumption. You also assume because Christians find a particular lifestyle nonproductive and sinful that intolerance is a bad thing, its not it simply says I don’t buy it and will not be governed by your particular belief in it.
Also you claim that homosexuality is a biological preexisting condition cannot be supported as fact, so to insist that all operation out of that unproven notion is unfair. You my friend are practicing bigotry with assumed information.
JohnQ your lack of knowledge of Paul sets the pattern of how you can operate claiming Biblical principals without the Bible. There are hardly any greater expressions of grace, love and respect in the entire Bible then that of the teachings of Christ through Paul. The heart of Christianity is in Paul’s experience.
Yes I do think that homosexuals should not be rearing children and yes it is harmful. I don’t have the answers to abandon children, I was one myself when my mother died and my father abandoned me, I survived a series of foster homes. Most of the foster homes were bad, and their main agenda was the money, but I am confident most homosexual’s have agendas of attempting to legitimize their unions. I’m sure most of the kids much like I need therapy. I’m equally confident that many of these kids in homosexual custody will be encouraged to explore homosexuality when they come to that sexual age of struggle.

“it simply says I don’t buy it and will not be governed by your particular belief in it.”
cknuck, you are in luck! Nobody is trying to govern you by a certain lifestyle. There are lots and lots of lifestyles in the US and we mostly get along. I’d say it’s the other way around; you anti-gays are trying to govern their lifestyle.
And no, I probably can’t “prove” homosexuality is biological from birth (though perhaps it’s been proven) but that’s a much more sensible and reasonable assumption than that it’s a choice, especially given the bigotry homosexuals face in many parts of the US.
“but I am confident most homosexual’s have agendas of attempting to legitimize their unions”
If I were one, I would. If you were one I bet you would, too. But since you are not one (I’ll assume) you get to stand off to the sides and throw stones at them as they try to get the same right everyone else has, one that wouldn’t hurt you at all.

cknuck, I’m glad you survived foster care and have apparently succeeded in your life…after struggles that you have mentioned. That, however, doesn’t mean that all children will grow up to be productive in foster homes, with some that are in it for the money. (as you put it). IMO, and it is well known that you don’t agree, but to me it is much better for a child to be adopted into a home with either one or two loving adults to raise and care for her/him. The gender of those adults makes no difference…single female, single male, or male/female, or male/male or female/female. The point is that the child is wanted and loved and given a good start in live. That to me is preferable to a series of state run homes or foster homes (and I’m sure there are a few good foster homes).
Just because a child is in a heterosexual home doesn’t mean that it is a good one. Stories of mistreatment abound…in all home situations (Fundamentalist LDS for example…lots of heterosexual relationships there!)
Your assumption that just because a child is raised in a family with parents of the same gender will “promote” homosexuality is rediculous. Did it ever occur to you that many homosexual men and women came from “heterosexual” parents??
The Bible is certainly not a place to get advice on families.

cknuck and anyone truly interested, here is a link to another bnet board with a thread entitled “Genes, again” and a discussion of the latest genetic and other medical/psychological research related to sexuality: http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10407
The synopsis is that as with race, specific genes have not yet been identified that switch different sexualities on and off.
Looking at all the results from all recent credible research…the most probable cause for sexuality is that genetics set the stage and then the environment within the womb during gestation…in other words, the hormones that are present during gestation along with the gene present in the fetus determine on individual person’s sexuality.
For the record, no credible medical and/or psychological association in North America supports the theory that sexuality is a choice.
cknuck, I truly do understand why you think sexuality is a choice. As a bi-sexual male I too could have settled down with a female…led a happy life….and, most people would have never known that I also find males attractive. However, for most people (straight and gay) if they wish to live a happy life, the gender of the person they partner with is not a choice.
Having Christians (and/or any other people) ranting at our youth for their sexuality, race, cultural background, etc is cruel.
Peace!

It’s rediculous to suggest that it is healthy for a child to raised in a home with gender conflict

mystery poster:
Gender conflict???? What the H*** is that? If you mean 2 people of the same gender, who love each other and their child, then I so diagree with you. Guess it is better to live in foster homes. (which, of course, would be Heterosexual!)
Or it is better for children to live in heterosexal “normal” families that fight have the “grown-ups” fighting all the time, or worse, beating the kids etc.

Mystery no Christian, The reason homosexuality is being explained in some schools is because people are born that way, just as we are born heterosexual. Ignorance is only continued by some Christians who want to hang on to “Sin” if a child is born homosexual. Our Medical Society in America, all of the societies, have enough information to qualify that this is an inherent state of being. We have seperation of Church and state that’s why Bibles aren’t allowed in Public schools. Like nnmns has said “apples and oranges”
Love of children is the same of same-gender parents or mixed gender-parents. Families are families. The Gay couples are adopting children who needed families and should be supported for their goodness in doing so. Gay life styles, as people erroneously describe them are not styles; merely who they are just as we do not describe ourselves as straight life-styled people. Some Christians are so immersed in their rigid bible beliefs they refuse to even think about the subject and keep the same opinions about sin, sin, sin. That’s their right, what isn’t their right is to continue to hurt people both straight and gay with their beliefs. Thankfully the educated and true loving Christians are stopping this behavior.

“Thankfully the educated and true loving Christians are stopping this behavior.”
Very well said, Henrietta!

JohnQ I understand your temptation to blend race in with homosexuality but the truth is that there is no relationship at all. Homosexuality crosses all races but race can be identified biologically, (skeleton, genes, hair, skin, DNA) not so with homosexuality so the difference is huge and should not be confused with the longings to explain homosexuality. Much like the misinformation professed by pagan suggesting homosexuality is present at birth; this is unproven information and wishful thinking. I would rather be in a foster home of heterosexuals then spend a lifetime seeing men kissing each other and making sexual innuendos to each other, ill. What does that do to a kid’s head?
Well this is one kid in this article that is making a statement of how this makes him feel, how anyone could ignore that escapes me. Is it a matter of making kids accept your homosexual lifestyle? Hoping to catch them young and influence or convince them?

“Well this is one kid in this article that is making a statement of how this makes him feel, how anyone could ignore that escapes me.”
It makes me think this kid was put up to it by some fundamentalist adult or perhaps he’s swallowed their fundamentalism so much he actually thinks he’s on some holy mission; probably both.
And speaking of the unproven, your whole theology is a wisp of a hypothesis as far as proof. Outside your head there’s no basis for your religious beliefs which you use to excuse your anti-homosexual beliefs.

sinsonte,
“pagansister’s unbelievable statement:
“Actually, his right to speak stops when it harms someone else.”
caught in my throat. THis is anti-free expression at its core.”
The “right” to ‘free speech’ is NOT absolute. You cannot yell “Fire” in a crowded theatre when there is no fire. You cannot say “Barack Obama is a died in the wool sodomite” freely (despite the fact that B’net actually allows it) because it is slander and/or libel. IOW, ‘free speech’ has consequences and costs.
I agree with pagansister’s sentiment. It parallels the old saying that ‘your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose’. IOW, when there is apparent harm. Why is there so much tolerance for this continued bearing of false witness, especially among those who claim Christ???

” Honest dialogue, however ulgy, is the answer.”
Would that it WERE “honest”. As the poste above points out – much of what the RRR says is merely (and undisguisedly) the “bearing of false witness” against god’s gay and lesbian people.
sinsonte, how do you reconcile spreading harmful lies about others with “free speech”?

“We are gentle but truthful” – cknuck
BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

cknuck said, “if you for one moment think that Jesus would approve of … homosexuality then you have not let His word into your heart.
God said I knew you before your mother’s womb.’”
Odd, considering I was “knit” in my mother’s womb as a homosexual child of God, and God KNEW that. I’m not sure how that indicates I have not let God’s word “into my heart”, but I know it’s a lying crock of crap that God does not approve of the way God created me.
Speaking of “lawyer loopholes” … re your selective, out-of-context pull quote: “For this reason a man shall leave his mother and father to be with his wife as one.” THAT was Christ’s answer on whether or not D-I-V-O-R-C-E should be permitted. It has NOTHING to do with homosexuality whatsoever, and it is disingenuous of you to repeatedly claim it has.

anonymous asked: “how come so many schools will allow gay-straight alliances yet not allow bible studies to occur?”
Because schools are extensions of the State and must, therefor be neutral when it comes to religions.
See how easy logic can be?
Thanx 4 askin’.

cknuck,
“To try to eliminate the commands of the God in the Bible by editing them to ignore the fact that homosexuality is indeed a sin is not Christian JohnQ”
I don’t think you’re calling JohnQ NOT a Christian is very “Christian”, either, ck.
However, it is YOU that is doing the “editing”. Neither in the 10 Commandments nor in the 2 that Jesus left us with is there one word about homosexuality, let alone the alleged “sinfulness” of it.
“many do it to satisfy their desire for sin.”
Actually, most people “do it” because “it” is entirely natural for them – it’s the way God made them. I do not “desire for sin” when I am being intimate with my husband.
“It’s no different then the sin of gluttony”
Gluttony is not in the 10 Commandments (nor in Jesus’s 2) unless you consider it to be the ‘worshiping of a false idol’ (food) and that would be a stretch.
“or divorce”
Odd that MANY here on B’net who constantly harangue gay people are divorced themselves. Odd indeed, considering they still get to call themselves “Christian” despite Christ’s very clear statement on it (that they/you often mistake as being a statement against gay people!!!).
“or adultery”
Adultery is the breaking of a covenant. I assure you I break no covenants in the expression of my God-given sexuality.
“but it still is a sin”
Well, according to YOUR beliefs. Certainly not according to my faith’s tenets. “Let each be persuaded in their own minds” says the Bible, no?
“That is why this and many other kids what to state their views on homosexuality.”
Apart from the grammatically unintelligible syntax, this student wants to state this in school and they do not have the ‘right’ to spout vitriolic, harmful ‘religious hatred’ there. Thank God.
“Whatever you want to call family is what you what to call family but it is not how God created family, but then again you can just ignore that part of the Bible”
There are too many examples in the Bible of “family” being 1 man and several wives (including incestuous examples of such) and men taking “wives” by force to take you seriously, ck. Or are YOU just “ignoring” those parts of the Bible?
“He would have mention it if it meant His approval”
OR, He might have mentioned it if it met with His disapproval. He didn’t. Selective much?
“it remains the same a abomination to God.”
Like eating shrimp???
“It’s important that Chistians know the right information”
Agreed, but they’re sure as heck not getting it from YOU.

“You also assume because Christians find a particular lifestyle nonproductive and sinful that intolerance is a bad thing”
Actually, ck, only SOME “Christians” call other people’s lives “lifestyles” and “nonproductive” [surely you meant 'non-procreative', and of course THAT would lead to a discussion of all the non-procreative heterosexuals and their "lifestyles" - a discussion that no one ever seems to have on these boards!] and “sinful”.
“it simply says I don’t buy it and will not be governed by your particular belief in it.”
No one is asking you to either “buy it” or be “governed by it”. YOU, otoh, are attempting to ensure WE not only are forcibly ‘sold’ your version but also are very much “governed by” your tenets. Why the double standard?
“Also you claim that homosexuality is a biological preexisting condition cannot be supported as fact”
I exist. I am a fact. You can deny it all you like, but I am irrefutable proof. To use your own words, “You my friend are practicing bigotry with assumed information.”
“There are hardly any greater expressions of grace, love and respect in the entire Bible then that of the teachings of Christ through Paul.”
Yeah RIIIGHT! Like, um, “Slaves, obey your masters.” and like, “Women are not to preach or teach.”
“Yes I do think that homosexuals should not be rearing children”
You are entitled to ‘think’ whatever you want. But remember what you said about ‘not being governed by another’s beliefs’???
“and yes it is harmful.”
Again, that is only your ‘belief’. It is also a gross insult to JohnQ who has shown he is a shining example of a good parent. Shame on you.
“I am confident most homosexual’s have agendas of attempting to legitimize their unions.”
No more so than heterosexuals and their agenda of attempting to legitimize their unions.
“I’m sure most of the kids much like I need therapy.”
I can’t speak for “most of the kids”, nor would I presume to.
“I’m equally confident that many of these kids in homosexual custody will be encouraged to explore homosexuality when they come to that sexual age of struggle.”
And I am equally confident that you knkow nothing of which you type.

“I would rather be in a foster home of heterosexuals then spend a lifetime seeing men kissing each other and making sexual innuendos to each other, ill. What does that do to a kid’s head?”
Then I have the perfect heterosexual couple to recommend for you and all like you – Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo.
Have fun.

ex pentecostal quote “THAT was Christ’s answer on whether or not D-I-V-O-R-C-E should be permitted. It has NOTHING to do with homosexuality whatsoever, and it is disingenuous of you to repeatedly claim it has.”
How could you miss that it has everything to do with the value Christ holds concerning marriage, and that homosexuality holds absolutely no value at all to Him, He refers to one man, one woman as His acceptable standard. Loopholes and false doctrines are covered also. And ex just because He knows you heart does not mean the heart is right or He approves of what is going on in it. Your lifestyle is a direct indicator of that.

These conversations about Gay peoples lives and heterosexual lives is so sad. Sad because Jesus stands for love and compassion and the Biblists stand for words and interpretations that can be twisted every which way, instead of recognizing the truth that children are born just the way they are, if you need explanation with intelligence the Medical Community is there waiting to help you. I realize there are some biblist doctors, etc. you may find to agree with you, life isn’t perfect here on earth. Rigid extreme fundamentalist views of religion have been let out of “Pandora’s Box” by Bush and his religious right and they have caused a lot of hate, confusion, teens taking their lives, and many dark events. Things are coming into perspective finally and these voices will never be gone, but they will recede eventually, and happiness will take their place.

Henrietta:
Your statement that those who need answers to explain homosexuality with intelligence should have those in the medical community help, is totally wasted on those who need it. They have already made up their minds that the Good Book cannot be changed at all…after all…God himself inspired those men to write accurately and without mistakes. The fact that 2000 years have passed and bunches of translations means nothing. After all “It is Written” and cannot be changed (even though it already has been, many, many times). Scary.
IMO, those who think the Bible is totally accurate have missed the whole point that you make, Henrietta, and others on this post…that Jesus stands for love and compassion. They are too rigid and scared to think that there are places in the Bible that are not only out of date, by 2000 years, but just plain inaccurate. Their version of love and compassion only includes SOME people, not all of God’s creations.

JohnQ:
Thanks for the synopsis of the article…I just read your post. Interesting.
cknuck:
Misinformation is in the brain of the reader. I stand by my statements…but then I’m for believing the medical community and not the Bible when it comes to a person’s sexual perferences.

You cannot say “Barack Obama is a died in the wool sodomite” freely (despite the fact that B’net actually allows it) because it is slander and/or libel. IOW, ‘free speech’ has consequences and costs.
I’m going to assume this was posted on a blog. Some blogs are monitored by the bloggers themselves rather than staff. If a complaint is sent to the community mailbox, a staff member will look into it. If you see something you feel should be investigated, please email us.
community@staff.beliefnet.com
Thank you,
Beliefnet_Tiger
Community Monitor
Beliefnet.com

if god is so dead set against homosexuality, why in the world did he make so many?

Excellent question, gzuckier. Wonder if someone has already asked the “Big Guy” or “Big Gal” and is still waiting for an answer…or they already have the answer and didn’t like it.

God didn’t make homosexuals that is a mistaken assumption He didn’t make transvestites or transsexuals or lesbians he made man and woman both heterosexual period. The rest is the work of sin.

Glad to see nothing has changed,cknuck, you knowing just what your God did or didn’t do during the “creation” phase of Her/His work. Amazing knowledge. I expect all the medical evidence to the contrary is a “mistaken assumption” also. I tend to believe the medical evidence, not the revelations in a book about a supposed creator. (but you know that too.)