This sect reminds me of the Taliban. My understanding of the treatment of young men is that they are not just groomed to become abusers and child rapists, they are also driven out of the sect at a young age so that they will not be competition with the old men for the favors of 13-year olds. Classy.

This shows some of the dangers of closed societies and of children not going to public (or at least official) schools where such abominations would become known much sooner.
And I hope a lot of people spend a long time in jail for this.

I read elsewhere tonight that Merril Jessop (spiritual husband of Carolyn Jessop) who is in charge of this huge Sect’s Compound has his lawyers busy on this abuse he feels that is happening to him. The authorities have taken all the cell phones at the Compound that they can find today, and he’s worried that the women and children aren’t being taken care of. Let’s all laugh together!! They at least are not being starved, beaten, raped, waterboarded, and wondering which one of the spiritual wives the husband will order to his bed tonight. Carolyn Jessops book, Escape, mentions nothing about young men marrying young girls; it does mention that if this was suspected the young women would be fast given to another older man, as they are the most prestigious, have the most money, and makes the parents of the girl advance in importance in their community. Merrill has seventeen wives at this point.

I wonder how much therapy the children, male and female, will have to have in order to join the “outsiders” world, as functioning human beings one day. It is going to take a lot of time and patience. Hopefully the babies will be adopted by loving parents, if they are taken away from their biological mothers. So much to do.

This is one of the times I agree fully with nnmns. This group may call itself the church of Jesus Christ, but the Jesus Christ I know never sanctioned anything like this. In fact, He condemned those who would put children in danger, especially for their own sexual satisfaction.

Yes, WC, this is certainly not “religion” at it’s best…but totally at it’s worse. nnmns is certainly right. This group has nothing to due with any “religion.” It is a cult.

Gee, the RRRers have been saying for a long, long time that if gay marriage is legalized, it will lead to child marriages, incestuous marriages and polygamous marriages. Seems all those things are already extant in America, and under the auspices of a church, no less.
Looks like somebody got the order of things way wrong.

On Larry King tonight there were three other ex-members of Polygamist families, and they shared their opinions on this subject. One mentioned that the men are probably cheating the government out of millions of tax money they are not reporting, along with all the other laws they are breaking. Lots going on here that needs stopping it seems.

So far, this is a textbook example of a cult gone seriously wrong. I hope they will document everything and add that to the training for agents dealing with these cases. It seems that lessons were actually learned after Waco and other disastrous cult events.

w

cult: adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
I sympathize with you who want to deny this has anything to do with religion and I do not know how much supernatural belief was involved in keeping those women and girls in service to those old men. But to the extent they used supernatural beliefs in keeping this going religion was involved. And if that religion somehow got into the majority (and I’m not worried about that yet) what they did would become the new morality.

Interestingly enough, The Today Show interviewed the man who prosecuted Warren Jeffs this morning, and he also compared the Fundamentalist LDS ‘Church’ with the Taliban, just as I did above.
Here’s what I don’t understand. This prosecutor said the marriage age in Texas is 14, yet presumably Texas also has laws against sex with underage girls. Huh? Does this mean that only children under 18 can marry each other, or will this give the elderly men of the FLDS Church a way of avoiding responsiblity for their monstrous actions?
I hope the state of Texas prosecutes the Hell out of these evil, sick pedophiles and abusers.

nnmns, in many ways all religions could be considered a “cult”, as folks who belong are adherents of an exclusive system of beliefs and practices. It is the WAY that the beliefs and practices are carried out or practiced that sets them apart. Some religions are less controling than others. The FLDS (and some others) being the extreme, vs the UU”s.

A cult is a segment separate from but still part of a larger religion or denomination. Otherwise, as pagansister wrote, all religions are cults. It comes from the word for room, as in a cult is a small room (specific group) off a larger room (religion or denomination), like a meeting room off a larger office area or a study room off the larger slace of a library. With kids, I talk about a room off a cafeteria. A sect would be the jocks, geeks, or popular kids table inthe cafeteria, and the cult would be the key club, the anime group, or simply a gathering of disctincly identified kids in a room off the cafeteria – but everyone is there for “lunch”.

After reading Escape, Carolyn Jessops book of life in a Polygamist family it seems to me that when they, the FLDS members, men, specifically decided to leave the Latter Day Saints Church it was after they were told Polygamy was no longer part of the Mormon Church. They basically believe the same as LDS, but they have added many cultish requirements as they have progressed in number, and money, with no checks on what they were doing from legal authorities, and under cover of Freedom of Religion for many years. In 1953 when their compound, wherever it was, the craziness that has progressed in the last 50 yrs. wasn’t probably going on, but how would we really know? The compound in Texas should be given to the U.S. in lieu of all the taxes that weren’t paid to the country they have been using for their perverted lifestyle. This is the time to stop polygamy and give people a chance to have normal relationships.

When Carolyn J. made her escape at one point she met with Utah’s attorney general, Mark Shurtleff and told him of the abuse and extremism that had taken hold of FLDS, because of Warren Jeffs. She described how women were arbitarily taken from husbands and given to other men. How Warren had terrorized young children by having animals tortured to death in front of them. She told them about the day all the dogs were destroyed and how Warren taught that a society that treated animals humanely was corrupt and had turned away from God. She told him of teenage boys who were dumped on the highway and told never to return. And many more horror stories, true ones.
Elsewhere in her book she tells of visiting one of Warrens wives who had just delivered her first baby by him; she walked in and thought she must have had a bad time because she looked so sick. She asked her if she had time to get to the clinic to have the baby, and the woman said Warren wouldn’t let her go, said she could have it at home. She needed a episiotomy and they used a sewing scissors and then stitched her up with dental floss. Barbaric?

Nothing would please me more than to see all these Polygamist compounds shut down, starting with those of the FLDS church, Henrietta22.
But CNN did a story yesterday about polygamist families that were broken up by the Feds in the mid-1950′s. Most of the children of those families grew up and became polygamists in turn, including the girl children.
The Arizona prosecutor (I think he was from the Attorney General’s office) said on The Today Show this morning that the best way to deal with polygamists may be on a case by case basis. Prosecute those who can be proven to have broken the law, thoroughly investigate all allegations of physical or sexual abuse or child marriage, as well as of welfare fraud. I think there is a lot of wisdom in what he says.
If dealt with on a case by case basis, then the issue is compliance with the laws of the land, laws that were designed to prevent abuse and exploitation, not to impinge on freedom of religion. I also think they should prosecute those who drive teenaged boys out into the desert on child abandonment and attempted murder.

Here’s another thing I wonder – how will Texas social services even begin to deal with 400+ children and over 100 women who are all suffering from Stockhom Syndrome?

Alicia what is Stockhom Syndrome?
One idea has run through my mind about Texas and its caring for the mothers and children is this; They are Latter Day Saints spin offs, and the Mormons understand them better than anyone. Perhaps they will see their way clear to reeducate them and open their homes to the children. The Mormons brought the polygamy with them in their religion and then dropped it and those who continued on with this life style. It has morphed into this terrible perverted mess. There may be some independent families living a fairly normal life somewhere as polygamists, and I feel sorry for them. It would seem that close watch should be maintained over all polygamists from now on. The IRS will have to do more than they have been doing to ascertain if the rest of the American citizens are picking up taxes because of their cheating, as well.

One new thing I read tonight from San Angelo, TX paper; a sixteen yr. old girl told that she has four children she gave birth to and is pregnant with her fifth baby to be. She must have become pregnant at either 12 or 13 with her first. The Feds are involved now. One young looking girl had her husband standing near her when she was asked how old she was, and she asked her husband how old am I? and he said 18. They are trying to get all the marriage records. I was surprised to hear a husband was there with her, I thought the women and children were safe and removed from all the men.

In a NYT article it’s reported the cult members would not give officers a key (?) to the compound ” because they would be aiding or assisting us in the desecration of their worship place,”
So if nothing else religion was used as a cover to hide the evil from sight.

Hi, Henrietta22. I hope you are still lurking — I don’t have internet access after I leave work so I didn’t see your question until this morning.
Stockholm Syndrome was first noticed in hostage situations, I think perhaps even airline hijackings (before those hijackings turned into suicide missions). As best I understand it, a hostage becomes psychologically dependent upon the perpetrators, not in a normal way but in the way that a helpless infant is dependent on an adult.
This sometimes establishes a bond between victims and perpetrators, which can lead the victims to have very confused feelings about what has been done to them. The bond can also go the other way, possibly leading the perpetrators of the hostage situation to greater feelings of empathy or responsiblity for their victims.
My thought about this situation was that at least some of the victims must have very confused feelings towards the men in their community. It seems to me that Texas social services needs to take this into account when they are attempting to help these women and children. In a very real sense, I think, these women and children are still hostages, and I don’t mean hostages of Texas social services. It’s a very complicated situation, and challenge for our civil society,

Thanks Alicia for explaining. I had heard that term before in conversation and didn’t know what was meant by it. Patty Hurst and the Liberation Militant members that kidnapped her in the 70′s and after they used her in their group. She had to do some time for it, but then it was proved it was the Stockholm Syndrome. I suppose some Pimps and prostitutes also could be put in this group.
I’ve been away from TV and all today so don’t know what is new about the women and children. Have to click into the news chs. to check it out.

For anyone still here, here’s some recent news.

nnmns-
Thanks for the link.
This is a great example of what happens if one person can get enough other people to buy into a line of philosophy without actually thinking.
Peace!

This article is so far back everyone has forgotten about it, except me.
If you go to http://www.newspaperlinks.com/voyager,cfm you can click on any states newspapers. You probably already know this, but if you don’t it’s very interesting. Click on Texas, and find The Standard in San Angelo, TX where this is going on and you can keep up with it all.

I find it disturbing that none of the Beliefnet bloggers appear to have any interest in this story.
This week, I have been racing through Carolyn Jessop’s book, “Escape,” about how she got out of the FLDS church and away from her husband, Merrill Jessop while managing to get custody of her 8 children. When Carolyn told her story to the Utah Attorney General, he said he thought the FLDS church had the potential to be another Jonestown or Jonestowns. It seems to me that this story is of a seriousness that merits more attention by Beliefnet than is in fact occuring.

Alicia, Flora Jessop, cousin to Merrill Jessop the head of the Ranch in Texas, escaped at sixteen from one the FLDS families in CO, she has helped 84 woman and children to escape since 1986! Her website is http://www.childpro.org. Carolyn Jessop was married to Merrill.
I watched several other FLDS women who left the Polygamists on Larry King last week: Laurie Allen who wrote a book called: “Banking On Heaven”, and Dorothy Allred Solomon who wrote: “Daughter of the Saints” . I may have reversed their names with books, not sure. Barnes and Noble could order these for us. Another two left that were there or mentioned: Pennie Peters and sister Ruth Stubbs. There was a young man also, but didn’t get his name.
I agree with you the subject should be brought up to date on Beliefnet.
It is the biggest child abuse case in the history of the U.S.

Thanks for this information, Henrietta22. As horrific as Carolyn Jessop’s story is, I am also finding it inspirational. I left a situation of abuse and exploitation in the early 90′s, and can testify how hard it was for me to do that, but I wasn’t born into it, and it lasted only about six years. Stories like Carolyn’s and Flora’s remind me how fortunate I am. I will definitely add the books you mentioned to my reading list.

Six years is a long time Alicia, I’m so happy you are free of it. The sad thing about so many of the women caught in the FLDS sect is they have been made to believe that the abuse they take will make God love them more. Self-esteem is a term that they probably haven’t heard of, and if they naturally feel abused they probably think they are being bad to feel that way. It’s pathetic brain-washing by the men who have set themselves up as little Gods, with women servants.

Alicia, I echo Henrietta, am glad you are free from the abuse you endured for 6 years. Personally I’ve never had to deal with that kind of horrific situation. My future daughter-in-law spent her childhood being abused. She has come a long way to healing, and is a strong woman now, but it has left scars.
I can’t imagine what the 416 children in the FLDS are feeling now. Some are probably scared to death, and depending on age, some might be relieved. Who knows?

Thanks for your support, Henrietta and pagansister.