We can admire the love an compassion that Bene16 and many Catholics display by wanting the very best for Jewish people believing that what would be best is for all Jews to convert to Catholicism.
I always prefer to see the best in people.
I realize to many that Bene16 appears to be trying hard to show compassion and understanding. And, to many others Bene16 looks like a bumbling fool who continues to misstep.
Sadly, I suspect that this is less an example of love and true compassion or the continued missteps of a bumbling fool…..and more of an example of sheer arrogance and self-righteousness.
Peace!

Yes, one person’s compassion is another person’s intolerable interference in their life.
As long as they only pray it will have no effect. Unfortunately some people a couple beads short of a rosary might decide they need to do more than pray. And there’s the forced conversions of Jews that have happened through a lot of history, which I think some Jews are very aware of. So the RCC has a lot of reason to be circumspect, it just seems this Pope can’t.

The prayer was no problem after Vatican II said it was OK to do Mass in the local language. Then along came Benny 16 to dig up the old Latin Mass, and start the controversy. His revision still has the same intent…convert the Jews. As JohnQ said, there is arrogance and self-rightousness involved here. The RCC hasn’t figured out that the Jewish people are doing just fine without the “Savior” in their lives. Can’t the RCC leave well enough alone? How about just taking out all reference to the “enlightening” the Jews. I think the RCC needs “enlightening.”

You would think that b16 was a government operative. Making a change that is in actuality no change at all is the path of a beauracrat. It is either that or he is being hypocritical, praying without any expectation that the prayer is genuine and from the heart. That or he still does not appreciate or understand the concern Jewsih people have.
In any case b16 does not come off looking good to anyone outside his fan club.

I still don’t understand why all the hubub about a spiritual leader expressing confidence that his is the right way and he hopes others will find it.
Arrogance is false pride. I’m sure many of us feel damn sure that ours is the right way and would love to see others take our exit off the religious highway.
Catholics, including Benny, have the right to worship, including in prayer, as they see fit as long as they aren’t impeding on the human rights of other noncatholics.
I know you may say, “But this attitude has led to impeding on the rights of others” but those actions are a separate issue.
Let Catholics worship without harassment. Tolerance doesn’t mean you have to agree with their viewpoint, just respect it.

“I know you may say, “But this attitude has led to impeding on the rights of others” but those actions are a separate issue.”
Perhaps to the prayor, but to the prayee it’s not. Anyone who’s paying any attention knows all religions have a kook wing and some of them take what’s said either way too seriously or too literally. So anyone who influences those people has some responsibility to take that into account. I see no evidence recent popes have done it and clearly some of the wacko protestant end-time declaimers don’t do it.

An interesting mix of Orthodoxy and Political Correctness. The prayer in question is in no way inconsistent with what the first members of the Christian Church (converted Jews) would have also prayed for. So in this sense, the pope is apparently simply being true to his church. Likewise, the people offended by the prayer, identified in the article as “conservative Jews”, are being true to their beliefs by rejecting Jesus as their Christ and rejecting any prayers aimed at convincing them otherwise. The difference today is that political correctness can be used as a weapon for those who choose to use it to get their way. How would Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, or other groups react to demands that they stop praying for things that are apparently fundamental to their beliefs?
I think we need to examine the intent of the prayer. Its not as if the prayer is asking for the demise of the Jewish people. The ultimate aim of both Christians and Jews is salvation. In today’s world of hatred and conflict, the fact that one group disagrees with the other’s chosen road to salvation yet still prays for the salvation of that other might actually be cause for celebration.

Why would a Jew want to become a Catholic? Perhaps, because they heard that the Catholics worship a Jew, or they want to please somebody because they married a Catholic or they have a sudden urge to look at the Crucifix? Some Catholics become recovering Catholics and then may even convert to Judaism. Oh my G-d! Oey Vey! The “Church,” Catholic, ie, has been loosing members and most likely money for many years. Why wouldn’t they want Jewish members.
Do the leaders in the Catholic Church understand that Jewish people do not believe in idolotry or putting any G-d’s before G-d and that there is only one G-d. The literal meaning of Messiah is a messenger. Could a Rabbi, then be a messenger? That is what Jesus is said have been called. Jesus was a Rabbi which means teacher. Jesus was the son of G-d? We are all children of G-d and are made in God’s image.
The visual effects of the idols in the Catholic Churches are frightening for an outsider, especially a Jew. Passion Plays protray blaiming the Jews for killing Jesus but I think the Roman’s had something to do with it. It was P. Pilot who wanted him dead because Jesus was said to have been “The King of Kings” which was frightening for the Roman Empire. Pilot tried Jesus and called for the crucifixion. The Roman empire fell anyway and G-d may have had something to do with that. Because there are no more Roman’s around, I guess that they have to blaim killing Jesus on the Jews because the Italian’s or Greek’s are not going to claim that any of their ancesters may have played a role in the dastardly deed.
Hebrew, Greek, Latin, what difference does it make what language you are reading the bible from as long is it is understood. Our motto in Latin Class was: “Latin is a language at least it used to be, it killed off all the Roman’s and now it’s killing me.” Why don’t they try reading the Torah in the original Hebrew text and then you can read all the commentaries of all the Rabbi’s who discuss the meaning of the text and then discuss it with your peers and then maybe you may understand what the original text truely tells us depending on your own interpretation.
Perhaps the Pope should revisit the prophesy. “When the Messiah comes, there shall be Peace on Earth.” When has that ever happened? Are we still waiting for the Messiah, who knows? We would like world peace and we would like to have people live more peaceful healthful lives worldwide. Probably not in my lifetime. It is the nature of the beast.
Shalom Brothers and Sisters

Ah, now we’re getting somewhere Sue! You’re starting to talk about reaching out to each other from a position of informed understanding. It has to work in both directions though. You are absolutely right, it would benefit every Catholic to read the Torah, for that is the origin of their faith. Even better if they had access to a good Rabbi. Likewise, if a Jew or anyone else is sincerely interested in understanding Catholicism, they should find a Catholic source such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church and/or a “good” Catholic. Even if it is for merely understanding simple things like the difference between icons and idols. Peace would be possible if we could all seek understanding of each other out of genuine interest or love of others rather than out of defending our own self-interests.
Shalom!

So, then, Catholics and many other Christians believe that salvation lies in Christ. Jews and many other religions believe that not to be true. I believe it is hypocritical to let on like you believe other than you believe. To refuse to pray for the salvation of the Jewish people would be the height of hypocricy if you believed that it was your duty to do so. The alternative is to let political correctness strike fear and hesitancy in your hearts so that you can’t even stand for you own beliefs.
Also, seeing extremism and vindictiveness and arrogance in any of this is just plain ignorance. Many of the self-appointed pundits and critics need to deal with their own hypocrisy and arrogance. Hypocrisy because they speak of tolerance while practicing intolerance. Arrogance because they believe that their own opinion is…well, hey, it’s my opinion so it’s the right opinion…right! But nobody else is entitled to think that their opinion is right, so there!! Arrogance shown in their mocking tone and cutesy jabs. Hypocrisy in claiming to want to see the best in people in one breath, and then accusing (judging?) someone of being and arrogant, self-righteous, bumbling fool and devoid of compassion and understanding, but just trying to come across thataway…. Oh, yes…then tossing in the ubiquitous and meaningless “Peace,” Bro. Nope, not buying it.
To pray for someone’s salvation does not translate into an eventual inquisition. To believe in what you believe, and to stand up for it, does not mean that you can’t also believe in reconciliation and friendship. I don’t always agree with my family and friends in matters of religion, politics, and worldview, but we respect and love one another. If I believe they are wrong in a matter of faith, and I believe it is important and matters in the great theme of things, I will pray for them regarding the issue. Then, I accept that God will, or will not, respond to my prayer, either positively or with a “no.” I am sure they would do the same, and none of us are put off by it. And, believe me, we are all strong personalities and would not feel embarrassed to express our displeasure.
Methinks that there are, perhaps, some Jews who are being a bit thin-skinned. Considering how the Catholics take flak from so many non-Catholics, I would say that their tolerance of what others say and think about them far surpasses that of their current detractors. But then again, the anti-Defamation league is out looking for any and all signs of defamation. Perhaps Christians in general should rustle up some folks and start a Christian anti-Defamation league. There would probably plenty of fuel to start a pretty good fire of controversy over the defamation of Christians on boards such as this one.

JB, generally we defame Christianity (and Islam and for that matter Judaism), not Christians or Muslims or Jews. But there are a few folks who get defamed here; far less than they deserve.
Pray your useless prayers, just don’t do anything that actually affects those you are trying to “save”.
And ask yourself what kind of inept god would design a universe where everyone needs “saving”. And why anyone would worship such a misfit.

JonBoy-
I pray for all sorts of people all day long. However, I never attempt to impose my will/intent on others nor, on God.
When I pray for someone……I pray that they have the strength and energy to do accomplish what they want and the clarity of mind to know what that is.
I do not have the arrogance to think that I know better than the individual what is best for them. Nor, that I know better than God what is best for that individual. That includes an individual’s religion. I do not presume to know that someone would be better off being Jewish than Christian…etc. I leave that up to the individual and God. If God wants someone to convert to Christianity….I believe that God is plenty powerful enough to deal with that individual. I am too humble to think that God needs my assistance in order to make something happen.
To respect the choices an individual makes for himself/herself hardly demonstrates political correctness.
I am taken back when people believe they know what is better for an individual than the individual does himself/herself. Each of us must make our own choices. After all each of us must deal with the consequences of our choices.
You might want to re-read: Matt 7:1-5
The “Great Commission” is not to go out and forcibly convert people….it is to go out and spread the word.
BTW, my “Peace” is my sincere wish for anyone reading anything I post here. If you wish to take it as a meaningless gesture….that is your choice. However, please do not attempt tell me what my intentions are when I use the word.
Peace!

The irony is that of the three abrahamic religions, Judaism is the only one that does not require conversion to it’s beliefs to be saved. Jews believe that all the righteous of the nations shall share in the world to come. Christians and Moslems require conversion or damnation is assured. I hate to disagree with JohnQ, but the Great Commission orders that Christians “make disciples” and “baptize.” — western history would have been much different if it had said, “Go proclaim the Good News and let people make up their own minds.”
Further irony: Matthew 7:1-5 which decries judging others is in the most anti-semitic of all the gospels. Read Jesus following his own advice in Chapter 23.

“…Considering how the Catholics take flak from so many non-Catholics, I would say that their tolerance of what others say and think about them far surpasses that of their current detractors…”
Posted by: JonBoy | April 5, 2008 7:26 PM
Is this guy honestly comparing the ‘flak’ that catholics ‘take’(as if they’re not allowed free speech) to the experiences of the jewish diaspora?
delusions, delusions, delusions….