Finally the words “liberty and JUSTICE for ALL” mean something again in America.

It’s good news. But now the Republicans will try to use this to scare voters into voting for their tired old Bush-supporting candidates, and for McCain’s third term of GWB.
So let’s hope most US citizens have gotten more courage so they can resist those Republican appeals to cowardice.

Thank you Justice Ron George and the four against three! Justice prevails in California!

Sad day for California but they are an confused state. Am I going to move? Nope Will I marry any homosexuals? Nope. It is a state thing not a church thing so I carry no feelings about it. Although I think it is interesting that the court overturned the voters. I guest the courts think they know better than the people what is good for them.

California poll in LATIMES voted over 85% in favor of the Supreme Courts decision!
Justice Ron George said, “Allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry will not deprive opposite sex couples of any rights and will not alter the legal framework of the institution of marriage.” He went on to say the current state law, enacted in 1977 and reaffirmed by voters in 2000, descriminates against ss couples on the basis of their sexual orientation, descrimination that the court, for the first time, put in the same legal category as racial or gender bias.
Another thanks, to Gov. A. Schwarzenegger who said, “I respect the Court’s decision and as Governor I will uphold its ruling and also I will not support an amendment to the constitution that would overturn this state Supreme Court ruling.”

cknuck says:
‘Sad day for California but they are an confused state. Am I going to move? Nope Will I marry any homosexuals? Nope. It is a state thing not a church thing so I carry no feelings about it. Although I think it is interesting that the court overturned the voters. I guest the courts think they know better than the people what is good for them.”
cknuck,
” Will I marry any homosexuals? Nope.”
Have any asked for your hand?
“It is a state thing not a church thing so I carry no feelings about it.”
Good on ‘ya! Render unto Ceasar, yadda, yadda, yadda.
“Although I think it is interesting that the court overturned the voters. I guest the courts think they know better than the people what is good for them.”
The courts overturned popular opinion in Brown v. Board of Education and Loving v. Virginia. Any problem with those decisions?

Equality in the USA moves forward.
We are still waiting to hear what the CT Supreme Court says. They heard the case a year ago.
Yeah California!
Peace

cknuck,
“Sad day for California but they are an confused state. Am I going to move? Nope Will I marry any homosexuals? Nope. It is a state thing not a church thing so I carry no feelings about it. Although I think it is interesting that the court overturned the voters. I guest the courts think they know better than the people what is good for them.
Posted by: cknuck | May 15, 2008 8:14 PM”
You can’t say you “carry no feelings about it” when you ‘feel’ it’s a “Sad day for California”. How is it “sad” and how is “sad” not a feeling about it?
Of course the court overturned the voters. The voters passed an UN-Constitutional measure. That’s the job of the courts, to determine the legitimacy of laws. This one stank, and was discriminatory in that it treated a clas of people as “second-class citizens” and that “impose[d] appreciable harm on same-sex couples and their children”.
Besides, they voted 8 years ago. The entire world has changed (in large part because of the policies of the Bush mal-Administration) and people’s minds have changed because they easily saw through the lies of the ‘right’.

Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring—when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God’s children—black men and white men, gay and straight, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics—will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: “Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!”

Well, some new light has broken here. Of course, it may simply be from the gas that the SC threw on the political fire. But I am glad for the renewed understanding of Civil Rights for ALL people. This will not diminish any previous or future marriage of heterosexual couples. If anything, it may enhance its meaning and value.

Scott R. that’s beautiful! We’re getting closer to that great time.

Henrietta,
Well, thanks – but those are Rev. Martin Luther King’s words (with the bolded addition), not mine. I’d love to take credit for it, though.:)

I guest the courts think they know better than the people what is good for them.
Unless “the people” have completed law school and have spent several years practicing law, the judges sure do know what’s better for all the people in accordance with the law.

You can take credit for remembering them Scott and getting them out there. I thought you were emphasizing his thoughts, and they are what we should all be striving for. Actually America should read these words as they eat their breakfasts every morining!

no matter what anyone says, everyone has the right and free will to choose their own path and destiny.

Henrietta,
That Coretta Scott King took such a string stance on gay rights gives proof to the idea that Dr. King would have as well, had he been allowed to remain with us.

Of course Dr. King would have. Who was closer to him than his wife? Who knew what was in his heart? Coretta did, just as I know what my husband, of 55 yrs. this week!, thinks and feels, just as my husband knows what I think and feel. He might have other relatives who think differently than he did, but not Coretta King, his closest friend and companion with the same goals.

I walked with King he never mentioned homosexuals and there were plenty around if he had a notion he could have but he didn’t. My wife and I don’t agree on many things so you simply cannot say what King would have said if he never did. Desperation stinks when it incorporates lies and deception. You cannot put the homosexual cause on a dead man who cannot defend himself have you no honor at all? Shame on you putting words in Dr. King’s mouth when he cannot from the grave speak for himself.
eastcoast, degrees mean only that a person could afford to go to school, this country is founded on the people having a voice. When we become afraid of the voting process and rely on a selected few dictating then we are no longer America.

When we become afraid of the voting process and rely on a selected few dictating then we are no longer America.
But when they put you in white-only schools and moved you to the front of the bus, they were great, huh?
You remember nothing.

And you’re grateful for less.
Now that gay people are on the other side, it’s fun holding the water cannons and whips, right?

get a grip and stop speaking for people scott, can you stick to “I” statements?

You are demonstrating perfectly what I said – and you seem to be proud of it.
When the courts do for you – good.
When you don’t like what the courts do – bad.

eastcoast, degrees mean only that a person could afford to go to school, this country is founded on the people having a voice.
Ridiculous statement. I went to college on scholarships and student loans, not having had two extra nickels to rub together all my life growing up.
You need to get over yourself and remember that others also have struggled.
Further, if you think the average Joe is equally qualified to interet law as lawyers and judges, then I can only thank God that others in charge think differently.
The fact that you think a majority of people feel a certain way and that therefore that way should be the rule of law over those who feel differently is the reason the Constitution is in place to protect the minoriy from the tyranny of the majority. You of all people have thrown minority oppression and conspiracy theories in our faces for so long that’s it’s pretty funny you should now twist it to enforce your point of view, claiming it as that of the majority and ostensibly “right”.

Would you let someone call themselves a doctor had they not gone to school and acquired the proper training and schooling and experience? Oh, no, that’s right – schooling only counts where it suits your argument.
Some of us think proper education is a great way to open one’s mind and perhaps even UN-learn that which we believe falsely.

You walked with King, (that’s great ck), but you weren’t married to him. As far as King not mentioning GLBT, nobody was back then. This is a different time of history, and if he had not be murdered he would have talked, the same as his wife Coretta, IMO.

Your problem eastcoast is that you are assuming voters are uneducated, I don’t make such assumptions.
H22 assumes MLK would have felt a certain way, then makes the statement but adds the disclaimer “IMO” I find both positions funny.

Well it’s always good to “leave them laughing”, right eastcoastlady?

Your problem eastcoast is that you are assuming voters are uneducated, I don’t make such assumptions.
I neither said nor implied any such thing. I said lawyers and judges are better at intepreting the law than are lay people
Yet another example of you twisting my words and intentions. My, but this gets old.
Yes, H, good to leave ‘em laughing. Better than beating our heads against the wall in frustration.

Not only are lawyers and judges voters but many voters have enough education of the laws to make good judgments, and what about juries. We find that this decision is more about personal perference than law.

I think cknuck is wrong, not a bad person, but wrong. I think he won’t be convinced otherwise so I will shake the dust from my feet and move on. I hope he has removed the speck in his eye before he worries about the plank in mine. I feel, as a gay man,my relationship with God is good and I certainly do not need cknuck’s to validate that. I hope the Almighty shows more compassion and understanding to him than he shows here, and more to me than I am able to show him. I think it’s disingenuous to take someone’s silence on the issue as either support for or against it, but it’s more presumptuous to say a wife, who, is after all, in a mystical union with her husband of two as one, knows her husband less than I do.

‘Nonymous of May 19,
Well said.
However, I find it is worth the continued dialog – or however these exchanges may be characteized. It is not so much that any of us change, but we become more aware of each other’s positions and perspectives. I hope you will stay with us – it is fun (most of the time – the exception is when someone is reduced to namecalling), and informative.

We find that this decision is more about personal preference (spelling corrected…)than law.
Is more than one of you typing? Speak for yourself.
So the judge(s) involved perhaps are also gay? That’s your implication.
Dear Anon, on certain issues, don’t bother looking for compassion from certain posters. It’s just not there.

eastcoast thank you for both correcting me and speaking for me, neither speaks to the issue.
Sometimes compassion is saying no.

ck, what makes you think I was speaking for you except when I address you directly? You’re far from the only poster here with strong opinions.
Better keep that ego in check. It’s not always about you.

eastcoast
“Better keep that ego in check”
Whoa, now I’m really scared maybe I’d ought to change my mind.
Judge’s despite the fact that other’s may see them as infallible are human and we can disagree with them on forced rulings. Even the president makes mistaken rulings that weaken the fabric of our nation. These judges have imo did just that.

Whoa, now I’m really scared maybe I’d ought to change my mind.
???????????????????????????????????????

“H22 assumes MLK would have felt a certain way”
His widow asserts that he did support equal rights for gay Americans. who are we (well, YOU, actually) to call her a liar?
BTW, many other prominent blacks agree – Nelson Mandela, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, (the late) Mildred Loving (of the Loving v. Virginia case), Julian Bond, and Jesse Jackson among them. I hope you’ll pardon us for accepting their word over yours, ck.

“Desperation stinks when it incorporates lies and deception.”
You would know, ck. You would know.
“You cannot put the homosexual cause on a dead man who cannot defend himself have you no honor at all?”
See above re what King’s widow has to say on the matter, which carries a bit more weight than your rantings, IMO ;{O).
“this country is founded on the people having a voice”
And indeed they do, by way of their representatives who – TWICE voted in favour of same-sex marriage.
“When we become afraid of the voting process and rely on a selected few dictating then we are no longer America.”
Not sure who is ‘afraid of the voting process, but the electorate do, must, and DID rely on their representatives (“the selected few” in your anti-republican words) who passed the measure – twice!
“Your problem eastcoast is that you are assuming voters are uneducated”
And your problem, ck, is that you assume the voters can never pass an UN-Constitutional plebiscite. They DID, and the Courts overturned it on the basis of the Constitutional guarantee of equal treatment before the law for ALL citizens. You just don’t happen to like it. “uneducated”? Certainly, in matters Constitutional. That’s exactly what the Courts are for.
“many voters have enough education of the laws to make good judgments”
Not in this case they sure didn’t. (Nor did they in the anti-segregation cases. Courts had to “impose” integration on America too. You do realize that even though it took until 1967 for bans on inter-racial marriages to be lifted by the federal courts, it wasn’t until 1998 that South Carolina actually lifted their ban, and not until 2000 for Alabama – and even then, 40% voted to retain the ban. “good judgements”??? Hardly. QED.)

racial and sexual are two different areas one cannot compare the two.

“racial and sexual are two different areas one cannot compare the two.” cknuck
How is that? People have been discriminated against since the beginning of time for being of a different color, than those in power(or those precieved to be in power). That is no different than discriminating against someone because of who they happen to be attracted to. Prejudice is prejudice and the behavior it causes is the same…no matter what the so called reason for that prejudice.
As to having marched with MLK? Good for you, ck. However you were one of many. He’s gone now, to soon to have been talking about the acceptance of GLBT as no one was in those days. However if he had survived, it is reasonable to think he would have accepted GLBT people and their right for equality under the law.
As to the decision by the Supreme Court in California….YEA! Hopefully other states will follow suit…sooner than later.