How exciting that must be for Hispanics like Canelones to find out they have Jewish ancestry. For her it gave an explanation as to why her grandmother and great-grandmother lighted candles on the Sabbeth. Hopefully she will be able to go to Israel soon.
I can see a problem, as pointed out above, with those of Jewish ancestry who also have been convinced that JC is special.
I wonder if Canelones was raised Catholic? If so, she must not have practiced as there was no mention that she was, or that she considered herself Christian.

Unfortunately it probably won’t be much of a problem to steal the land from those who own it and whose families have lived on it for decades or centuries, the Palestinians. It doesn’t seem to bother them that the land isn’t theirs to take. But as is true so often, might makes right.

How “nice” that it only took 2 posts to turn the story sour.

This resonates with my personal history. I’ve read various novels and histories where Sephardic Jews, or Latinos who later discovered they were of Jewish ancestory, had the same last name as I do. As long as I can remember, my family has had a history of philo-semitism above and beyond what would be expected from “normative” Latinos and/or Catholics. I’m not saying this is proof of a Jewish ancestry, but the circumstantial evidence is intriguing. L’shanah haba’ah birushalayim.

Quote: God promised the Negev (southern Israel) to the people of Sepharad (believed to be the name given to the Iberian Penisula) said Ferni ?, citing a prophecy from the bibical book of Obadiah. “We are working toward making that a reality”.
Who lives there now? Is it the Palestinians, nnmns? Maybe the owners of this land would like to put it up for sale? Why don’t these newly inspired Sepharad-Jewish people just start a new Synagogue in “their country of America”, instead of another war in the Holy Land.

nnmns, how is it that the Hispanic’s that have Jewish ancestry going to visit Israel, take anything away from anyone? I’ve visited the countries where my ancestors came from, but I don’t have a desire to live there.

I do not really understand Nnmns’ objection, since it merely mentions moving to “Israel,” not, for example, “Gaza” or “the West Bank,” unless he is arguing against the existence of the entire country?
There does seem to be a rather big bit of information missing from this article about the Judaism/Christianity issue. What exactly are the religious beliefs of most of these people? A form of Messianic Judaism, or are they, religiously speaking, just normal Christians? If the latter, I find the desire to move to Israel somewhat strange; granted they have Jewish blood, but they couldn’t really be called “ethnically Jewish,” and if not religiously Jewish either, I cannot figure out why one would want to move to Israel. I’m not objecting to it, mind you, just saying I cannot quite understand it.
God bless.

Nnmns and I read the quote I posted and if you read it again you will see the connection of both of our posts. F. said they were working towards the reality of the bibical quote.

If I am correct, one is considered Jewish if their Mother is Jewish. Canelones’s grandmother and great-grandmother were Jewish, so that gives her the right to claim her ancestry. Does that mean if a man finds out his father was Jewish, but not his mother, does he have to convert to live in Israel?

I understand nnmns (OMG); because people justify taking land because of biblical quotes when they don’t realize that we all are children of Abraham and it’s not about taking people’s or occupying land but its about realizing we are all of the same ancestry. God created the earth there is no special piece of land and if there was, the spilled blood on it has made the only thing special about it is the killing/murders. Ya think God honors that?

So you are basicly saying, cknuck, that the Jewish people can’t claim to be “The Chosen People”, because God didn’t choose any group as special? Nor did He give any people their own land when he created the earth. Interesting. You mean the Jews have had it wrong all this time???
You mentioned blood spilled on lands? Think the Christians did a lot of that on lots of lands…not just the areas known as “The Holy Land” but the non-Holy Lands as well. If God didn’t like this, why hasn’t He chosen to stop it?

“how is it that the Hispanic’s that have Jewish ancestry going to visit Israel, take anything away from anyone?”
“Under the law of return, the Israeli government assists with housing and other needs for those wanting to go back to the land of their ancestors. But to be allowed in, the law requires evidence that at least one grandparent was a practicing Jew. Descending from Jews alone is not enough, Katz said.”
It’s pretty clear they have staying in mind, not just visiting.
And the more move to Israel the more pressure to steal land. And if you read “It is the land God promised to me and my ancestors,” she said. “He has never gone back on his promises.” it looks like they want some land.
“You mean the Jews have had it wrong all this time???”
Well yes. ps I believe you and I agree that god doesn’t exist so if some of them think that god gave them some land surely we agree they are wrong about that.
And if there were such a god I’d call it a pretty kinky one if it chose one group of people to do favors for and torture. That’s an idea that goes a lot better with a tribal god than with a god that’s supposed to have created this whole incredible universe. But then the god some Jews worship was a tribal god. It’s a damn shame those small tribal ideas still pester the planet. And of course it’s not just Judaism maintaining tribal ideas way beyond there spoil-by date.

Well, even if the evidence proves I’m Jewish through and through, I’m not making the Aliyah — tamales and chorizo have pork in them and I ain’t giving them up.

Yes, nnmns, we agree on god not existing. Hard to give away something if there isn’t someone to do that. (land).
As to the folks wanting to live in Israel…a short story. We have Jewish friends, who’s sister moved to Israel maybe 20 years ago…using all their money to get there. Found out it wasn’t at all what they thought it was going to be, but were stuck…no money to get back to the U.S. on. So some of the folks who think they want to settle there may find it not so great…visit yes, live,no. Might be the case with Canelones, who knows?
I have often wondered if there was a god, why would, he/she let “bad things happen?”

CK,
If the Jews aren’t chosen, then the Xian people are nothing
nnms,
It’s your racialist ideas that have existed way paste their expirations date. The world will be a better place when they whither and die, not the Jews. We make this world a better place, not your dead theology.

Scott quote:
If the Jews aren’t chosen, then the Xian people are nothing
So you think some people are nothing. its not a revelation that you hate, fortunately you don’t get to call anything. Some people prove the only point to “chosen” is “chosen” to show the world what not to do.
It was never about land to God but relationship. Jesus said “that all might be saved” Soaking the earth with blood only serves to make it of less eternal value; Christians, Jews, Muslim or any other that take life over what isn’t theirs but the freely given gift from God.

“It’s your racialist ideas…”
Racialist: racist: a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others
Scott I really don’t think I’m a racist. I doubt anyone is totally without bias but I think I do pretty well and I try to weed out such thinking when I catch myself doing it. What about you? “We make this world a better place” has racist tones.
With Jews and Judaism there’s this whole confusion between genetics and religion due to language. If you say “Jew” it’s hard to know for sure if you are talking about someone’s genetic heritage or their religion. If there’s an accepted, non-controversial terminology for such distinctions I’d appreciate it if someone would point it out.
Anyway I understand if you get mad when I make a comment that seems obvious to me but seems insulting to you, that your religion (well, probably some versions of it) is a tribal religion.
But it, or at least the part I see referenced most in the OT, comes pretty directly from a tribe wandering around the Middle East and their imagined interactions with a god. A god that, if indeed it had created the whole immense and incredible universe, took a strangely unique interest in that one tribe out of a world of tribes.
Don’t you see it seems natural from the point of view of that tribe and apparently some of its descendants but from a wider view it would be really strange if true and indeed is far, far more likely not to be true. (Like Christianity and Islam and so on.)

So you think some people are nothing.
No, I just think some people – such as the one I’m talking to – are willfully ignorant.
If everything about the Jews is not true from the Tanakh, then nothing about the Xian religion is true from your bible.
If we don’t have a covenant, you sure as hell don’t (well, you don’t have one anyhow, but that’s a whole different matter).

Inquisitions have a way of making some people want to avoid attention. I expect that may have been the case with many of the Sephardic Jews. So reclaiming their ancestry seems like a vindication from sins of centuries ago.
My son’s kindergarten teacher was Sephardic. Her uncle, whose name was very Hispanic, was a rabbi. It is a heritage of which she and her family were all quite proud. Hearing her Hebrew with a southern accent was great!
Chosen-ness is not everything it is cracked up to be. In 4th grade I was often – chosen. But that kind of chosen was because the teacher kept trying to make me a better student. It was not fun. Often when I hear that the Jews were chosen I think of 4th grade. It is because of their chosen-ness that I think they are known as Isra-el, “contends or struggles with God”.
pagansister wrote, “I have often wondered if there was a god, why would, he/she let “bad things happen?” (and I can’t believe people have not commented on this!)
I do not think God allows or disallows things to happen. More often than not, the awful/awesome things that happen are of our own making. We are expected to accept responsibility for our actions and decisions, good or bad. This is not a game board or even a train table, where a beneficient being corrects all the “oops” we foolish beings make. God is with us – not fixing every mistake or screw up. Like a loving parent, God is with us, to comfort us, to encourage us, through the lessons of kings and history, to warn us, and through prophets and apostles to guide us. Chosen does not at all mean preferred. If history teaches us anything, it is not that the Jews enjoy preferred status. It does mean simply God is there when everyone else has fled the scene.

cknuck,
I really wish you would start your posts off with something like, “In my interpretation of the bible” because it always comes across like you think you’ve cornered the market on it; it’s like you don’t even recognize that it’s an interpretation.

jestrfyl:
Thanks for your answer to my “bad things” question.” You seem to have a handle on things, and explain them well. I know that question has been asked since the beginning of time.

We are have wishes confessoressa for instant I wish you had a shorter handle, gee it didn’t happen did it. sorry

jest I am impressed not that its important to impress me I just want to compliment you on your explainations.

ck & p.s.
I appreciate your comments very much. Thank you both.

And now back to our show.
There’s a good book called “The Mezzuzah in the Madonna’s Foot” by Trudi Alexy, which gives a great explanation about the Jewish ancestry of many Spaniards, definitely worth reading for those who want some background and history into the issue. Believe it or not, it tells the stories of Holocaust survivors who were given refuge by, of all people, Franco, and the way they discovered their religious heritage.

Shalom to All, May you be found resting in the Blessings of The Eternal, Blessed is He. I would like to help clarify a few things. Not one of you has ever once met me or Wendy Canelones nor have you ever set foot in our Kehilat. It seems that many of you do not know very much about Sefardic history ( don’t worry…your not alone ). I suggest that you go to your local library and pick up a copy of “The Jews of Spain” by Jane S. Gerber…it’s a great place to start. There is a prophecy that is specifically about the Sefardic Jews that in the Tanach. To learn more about this prophecy and our organization, I invite you to visit our web site at http://www.aliyahsefaradinternational.org. We are Sefardic Jews. Our Synagogue, Beth Israel Sanford, is a Torah submissive Kehilat. Our services are in Hebrew, English and Spanish. We have a Sefardic Torah that is over 350 years old that we use every Shabbat. We use the ART SCROLL siddur in both English and Spanish ( Nuach Sefarad )and there is nothing Christian about us. Rabbi Akiva, of blessed memory, taught that General Bar Kochba was the Mashiach. He chose to name a man and still till today he is considered Jewish. I, chose to name a mane, Yeshua ben Yosef as Yeshua ben David. I have every right to be Jewish. I am Sefardic on both my father’s and mother’s side….proven by DNA. And the matter of being Jewish on your mother’s side only is Rabbinical law…not Torah. It has always been that you were Jewish from your father’s side. Remember Yosef, Yakov’s son, he married Potipher’s daughter, who bore him two sons, Ephraim and Manashe. And still till today, we bless our sons after these two, every single Shabbat! Why did the Rabbis chose to write a law stating that you are Jewish from your mother’s side. Because our people have always been attacked by other nations and our women raped. Through no falt of there own, these women became pregnant and were about to have a child whose father was a Philistine, a Roman, a Greek, etc. So as to not allow that child to be rejected by the Jewish community, the Rabbis wrote the law stating that “you are Jewish from your mother’s side”. There is an incredible awakening occurring among the Hispanic communities around the world regarding their Sefardic roots. This is the work of The Eternal. Oh, by the way, the Negev, which is 60% of the land of Israel, is a great big desert with very, very few people living there. I know, I have been there. The pioneer of the Negev was Ben Gurion. He had a vision that one day the entire Negev one day, be it would plush green and filled with Jews living freely. This will happen because the words of the Holy Prophets always come true. Wendy Canelones as well as hundreds of other latinos, are preparing themselves to become Pioneers, both spiritually, mentally and financially. We all know this will not be easy…but then again, nothing comes easy to us Jews. Shalom. Rabbi Gary Fernandez

Thank you so much, Rabbi Fernandez, for your post. I found it very informative and enjoyed reading it, particularly the part explaining the origin of the mother being the carrier of the Jewish faith. Not being of the faith, I assumed what I had heard was the tradition. I am assuming then that it makes no difference now if only one parent is Jewish, the child is considered a Jew.

Thanks Rabbi Fernandez for the information, especially about the Negev being a big desert with very few people living on it. You would undoubtedly allow these people to stay, and so no war would be necessary to claim it. Good luck to all of you.

Rabbi F,
An excellent post. You have me scurrying to my resources to read even more on the subject.