“What they object to is creating a division in the village where none ever existed.”
I know what I would love to call this comment but I can’t curse but it is a load of it. The community is built on division it is elite. I really can’t see where these tiny little symbols would hurt anyone or separate anyone anymore than they already are.

WestHamptons may have people who are well-educated, with professional jobs, lovely homes, but does that make them elitists, or what they say a load of, CK? I know some and they are just people like anyone else. From what I hear from a relative of mine about WestHampton is it is a friendly town to visitors, as well as to each other. The people who live there, including the Jewish unorthodox, don’t want it for whatever reason; I have no feelings about it one way or another, I don’t live there, let them straighten it out it’s their turf.

Yes, Henrietta, let’s hope they work this out amongst themselves. Personally if I lived there, I wouldn’t worry about it, as I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t exactly damage the landscape. I can’t see how this would divide a community. It’s a problem knowing which of your neighbors is Jewish and which aren’t?

Paradise literally means a walled garden or orchard. The most powerful divisions and walls are those in our minds. If there is a group of people that would establish an eruv, it is most effective if only they know of its existence. I am not at all sure why the secular government is involved in this. Is it not possible to simply identify an area for themselves and then to leave it alone. Must it be thoroughly exclusive, so that no other people live or work within it? A quick Google search shows there are several around the country and they are neither intrusive nor exclusive. In some ways it seems to be less invasive than the tags that are painted on buildings. Surely there is some way to educate the wider populous so this does not come off like a ghetto. I am curious why the public statemtns qhich can only result in a public outcry.

Ps I think what they are saying is that until now when you went to the villege of WestHampton, and the beach, no divisions were visible or thought of even. They don’t want to see peoples religion played out on their streets with symbols on their light poles. Think of it this way, in the south we see these signs from pentecostal churches plastered all over about sin. When I first came to live in the south and southwest I found it disturbing, now I just ignore it. I remember something about this eruv out in CA a couple of yrs. ago. That group wanted to have a line attached from light poles high off the ground so they could walk their babies in strollers, and their dogs on leaches in this square on the holy times. It was not allowed because sea birds would have flown into them and been killed. I tried going into Newsday.com (Long Island, NY, newspaper) to see if there was something about this, but couldn’t find anything. I’ll have to call someone back there to find out what it is about. The Jewish people who are not Othodox don’t want this eruv either, just like all Christians do not want people like S. Palin bringing her pentecostal beliefs into our government. Extremism hurts everyone. This country is for everyone, not just extremists.

Thanks Henrietta.
Can this eruv be done without wires but perhaps just small markers on the poles as a guide? This is what I thought the article meant…markers not necessarily wires…which could be a problem for flying creatures!

There are plenty of eruvs in the neigborhoods near where I live. If you did not know they were there – well, you would not know they were there. The ones near me are made of practically invisible, very narrow wire, only really visible if the light reflects off them just so. They are primarily attached to telephone poles and are raised pretty high overhead.
Because they exist, the Orthodox who benefit from them can push strollers on Shabbat, carry packages, etc.
They are certainly less of an eyesore, being hardly visible, than the fugly signs hammered to the poles screaming about cash being available for cars, making 6 figures from home, etc. Those signs benefit only the seller “fortunate” enough to catch the interest of those who call the number on the signs. To me, those are much more annoying.
And oh, BTW, the ethnic and religious makeup of the neighborhoods where the signs exist – well, that has not changed one iota since the eruvs have gone up.

I hope my earlier comment were not perceived as harsh or judgemental. This is something of which I had not heard of until today, so I am genuinely curious. In my google search I saw both Aventura, FL (near N. Miami) and Skokie, IL listed with an outline of the eruv on the map. How have these communities designated their borders? Aline may keep some people and but also some people out. Also lines beg to be extended, or at least tested. That is the same with parenting as it is with establishing an eruv – interesting.
We are reading the Decalog this Sunday and I just finished out weekly Bible Workshop focusing on the passage. We talked a while about the consequencs of keeping the Sabbath holy. But I am still curious about how the concept of an eruv meshes with the Sabbath Command. We talked not only about Jewish Sabbath or even Christian Sabbath, but the concept itself. What is work for some is rest for others. What about first responders or employess in the service industries? We have become a society dependant on a variety of Sabbath days, and on those for whom there is no Sabbath (yet, does this not violate the command to include even the alien residents among the community?).
Is it not amazing how we manage to take a simple commandment and find ways to make it all soo very complicated?!

I agree with ecl concerning this matter it makes life easier for part of the populist and is not noticeable, why not it’s not divisive as a matter of fact it would be inclusive permitting the people to move about as others do on their Sabbath. It’s simply and apparently the symbols are simple and unnoticeable not a real big sacrifice for a people who belong and give a wonderful personally to any neighborhood.

Thanks, ecl, for the expanded explanation on the eruv. As I mentioned above, I’d have no problem with them in my neighborhood. And you’re most certainly right….better than the ugly signs nailed on the poles! Hope the folks in Westhampton work it out.

Now hear this…..I would not care if I saw the wires, or tacky signs on posts what I care about are the birds. Unless they have great eyesight and the Jewish Othodox know how to explain to the birds that fly that they are there why should they have something else to fly into because of mans lack of care about them? I have decals, little stain glass hangers all over the glass walls of our sunroom to save Gods little birds that make our lives in our neighborhood a blessing to us. The people in Long Island have “seabirds” all over the villege and beach, and I hope they fight really hard to keep them out as they did in CA. I find it interesting to see that not one poster here has even considered the lives of the birds.

henrietta, the wires are narrow and somewhat flexible. They are not strung taughtly between poles. I’ve not heard of one instance of a bird flying into them, and frankly, these wires, at least in the neighborhoods near me, present a much, much narrower and smaller profile than does anything else attached to or hanging from a pole, such as electrical wire or telephone wire. Birds or other flying creatures are not engangered by an eruv.

jest,
For the Orthodox or ultra-orthodox, “work” is a very wide-ranging thing when it comes to Shabbat. They won’t turn lights on and off and they use timers to do that. They’ll leave bathroom or certain other lights on all night to cover in the event they need to use that room. They use timers, hot plates, and other tools for food prep. They’ll work like dogs earlier on Friday to prepare for Shabbat so they don’t have to “work” on Shabbat and can focus on observing the day. They find neighborhood synagogues to walk to so they don’t have to drive. They can’t carry packages.
Even Conservative Jews have different levels of observance. For example – when it comes to Yom Kippur and we bring food to donate to local food shelters, churches, etc, as a symbol of our willingness to go hungry to try to appreciate the plight of those who are hungry all the time – we bring those before sundown, before services begin on Erev Yom Kippur, because the observance begins sundown the night before. (“Erev” means evening in Hebrew – not to be confused with the “eruv”, which is the topic of the article.) We hire non-Jews to help run the synagogue facilities during Shabbat, adjusting the heating/cooling, turning lights on/off, warming up/setting out food for the oneg – Sabbath meals – we usually serve food on Saturday after services, because there’s a commandment to eat three meals on Sabbath, so the shul helps by serving one of the meals.
It’s complicated, and observance levels vary depending on how observant one wants to be, but an eruv serves to make life much easier for those who observe, and has zero impact on those who don’t.

ecl
I have been aware of many of these accommodations for many years. I have even know Jewish families that – before timers – hired gentile kids to turn on lights and other things for them on the Sabbath and holidays. I was ignorant about the eruv, though. I think if it is unobtrusive and something that only those who need to know would see, there should be no problem at all. This still makes me wonder about why the hubbub. If the community will not allow the wires, why not markers in the lawns of the effected properties at the borders. Subtle seems to work best with this. I am sure some creative soul will find something to make this happen without bruised feelings and deflated spirits.

Jest,
I don’t know if the border need be unbroken, for example, and thus lawn markers would not work. I don’t know about those types of nuances, for example, if it has to cross traffic intersections.
I’d have to read more, ask my more knowledgabale acquaintances, or have Rabbi Brad chime in.

As far as the “perception” thing – well, maybe it’s an appearance of favortism. Maybe it’s being seen as making a special accommodation for a specific group.
If this were true and it were being done at the expense of another group, I might understand the concern.
However, there’s no impact on other groups. I don’t understand the hubbub, either, except that it becomes public because “public” things are being used, like telephone poles.

Thanks for explaining about the flexible wires, etc. ecl. CA bird clubs etc. found the wires to be hazards for the sea birds. Birds are fragile, especially their necks and legs. I hope you’re right about them not flying into the wires, but in our society a little birds body would just be kicked into the gutter and no one would say a word about it, much less give it another thought, unless they are Birders. Beliefs Wisdom page today had an interesting and timely verse. It said “Anpiel” is the angel in charge of looking after birds, according to Jewish Kabbalist Mystics. This is a postive thing to use to protect the birds. Thankfully there is an Angel to protect humans, creatures, places, etc. from harm. God thought of everything.