I don’t understand why Christians should wave Israeli flags in support of a Jewish state when that is the last thing Jews would do concerning America to support it as a Christian country or any states within America as Christian states. Most Jews here fight to deny the Christian history of America and fight to support the Jewish history of Israel. Hard to understand, unless, well I won’t go to the obvious.

If indeed the motive is just to celebrate, that would be fine. But according to the article, the evangelicals, who are awaiting the final apocalyptic battle between good and evil, have a religious reason to support Israel. They expect JC to return and tell the Jews that if they don’t become Christians…they’re DEAD. WOW, I know I’d be scared ). So the reason for being so “nice” and marching in the parade and sending financial support may have less than honest motives.

You know, I had a good comment to make on this – and then I read the first comment.
Let me tell you something CK: you know why I and other Jews won’t vote to preserve “Xian” America? Because every time that Xians have been a part of government anywhere, they have mistreated, persecuted, and killed their Jewish citizens, as well as mistreated other minorities. So no, I do not ever want to see Xianity as a part of any American government.
And no, I do not like the idea of evangelical/fundamentalist Xian lucky-mucking around in the Jewish state.

Don’t worry, Pagansister. Most evangelicals I’ve met/read don’t have the “Jews will accept Christ or perish” mindset. It’s far more common (and far more biblical) to see the end times as a time when all the people still faithfully following the Covenant WILL accept Christ. They envision it as God finishing His salvific work with the children of Abraham.
Some Jews (understandably) have a tendency to misread Christian ideas and intentions, and there’s a good chance that there’s a lot of that going on in among the Jews in Israel right now.

I would be wary as an Israeli Jew. Those flag waving Christians like these are quite likely to sell out the country if they thought it would mean hastening “Armageddon” and their chance to be at the final blow out at Meggiddo. Whether they are pre- or post – millenialists, they are a group that is more invested in the End Times that they are in These Times. Literal readings of mystical/political writtings is always dangerous. This is just one more example. I would not let any of them have a lighter or matches in one of these parades – it could get terribly hot in a time when we need cooler hearts and clearer minds.

Nate W.
I realize ALL Christians aren’t as zealous as the “flag waving” evangelicals. Waiting for an “end time” seems to be a waste of time. Life is too short to worry about the “return” of some savior to grab the faithful and bump off those that don’t decide they need to be “saved”. Somehow I don’t think the Jews are “misreading” anything.
jestrfyl, I agree with you. The folks in Israel need to be wary.

Pagansister, I’m talking about those zealous, flag-waving evangelicals. Quite a lot of people have some serious misunderstandings about evangelicalism, and you appear to be one of them.

Nate,
As usual, you are clueless and uneducated about Jews and Judaism.
There are no “endtimes” and this “Christ” is a mythological figure invented by the Greeks. So there will be no one to convert to except the one and only God of Israel – and if such an event happens, it will be the Xians knocking on the doors of the Jews, begging us to teach them the true faith.
BTW Nate – There is no such thing as a Palestinian. They didn’t exist until the 50′s, when the Arab world turned other Arabs into a people and invented a pretend state. They are Arabs.
There are no “crimes” against such people. They are in a war to exterminate the Jewish people (and let’s be honest – they have no other intention). Israel engages in self defense during a war situation.
Anything else?

Scott, you apparently missed the fact that I was talking about the beliefs of evangelical Christians, not modern Jews, so I don’t know why you’re reminding me of the obvious fact that Judaism doesn’t believe those things about Jesus.
And there’s no reason to get into a discussion about conflict between Israel and Palestine or about the somewhat artifical political origins of either. That’s not the point. The point is that the leaders of Israel don’t exactly have a squeaky clean record in dealing with the Palestinians (I’ve witnessed some of the relations firsthand, and it’s not pretty on any side), and you’re blind if you can’t see that, so your rant about terrible Christians are whenever they get any political power is more than a bit hypocritical. But I’ve come to expect nothing else from you.

People who point guns into bedrooms and fire into the abdomens of pregnant women, who blow themselves up where the most women and children can be found, who target seders for senior citizens, and who attack college cafeterias deserve no mercy. I pray they get none, and I don’t bat an eyelash when they don’t. If I offered them mercy, they would cut my throat – as would some of their American Xian allies (perhaps they would do it before the terrorists would).
I have no qualms whatsoever about Jews who have political power. None at all.

Nate W:
I have always figured evangelicals are about as deep into their “Christianity” as they can be…thus the end times with all that is connected to that story is first and foremost on their minds. If they can indeed keep Israel solvent until JC returns, then their story “comes true”. And they need that story to happen…or everything they have been told would be a lie. This isn’t misunderstanding the group as far as I can see. They need Israel..it is important to the return of JC and the “end times.”
Now are there some evangelicals who really aren’t into this story? I’m sure there are.

Right, Scott, because all Palestinians have been doing those things. Give me a break.
Pagansister, I’m sorry to say that you’ve figured wrong. For one thing, evangelicalism has nothing to do with how “deep into” Christianity one is; in fact, I don’t even know what is supposed to mean. Evangelicalism isn’t about a level of commitment. Second, not all evangelicals are that into the “end times,” and many don’t believe anything anywhere close to all the “Left Behind” stuff. Finally, evangelicals don’t “need” Israel to make the end times happen, despite the fact that many support Israel and believe that the establishment of modern Israel is an important development leading up to the end times. But those who would try to manipulate Israeli politics to hasten the coming of Jesus would be on the fringe not just of Christianity but of evangelicalism, even of fundamentalism.
Trust me. The vast majority of conservative evangelicals who stand behind Israel don’t match your stereotypes of them any more than the vast majority of liberals and secularists match the stereotypes that conservatives have of them.

NateW: If an evangelical is one who says he/she is “born again”, believes that they are to share their beliefs with non-Christians, believes that SATAN actually exists, that the Bible is accurate and infallible, that JC was sinless, and last but not least, that God exists, that he/she created the universe and rules it, then I think that means those folks are “deep” into their religion. They certainly aren’t into a liberal version of Christianity. So it follows that some would be into the “end times” bit too…at least to me. If that is a stereotype, so be it. There are in all religions extreme believers who, again, IMO, who would try to hasten the coming of Jesus, by doing what they felt was necessary.

‘There are no “endtimes” and this “Christ” is a mythological figure invented by the Greeks’
I must admit that I haven’t heard this one before. Are there any online resources I can go to that expand on this theory?

Tom,
For heaven’s sake, be wary of pretty much any site you find on the Internet discussing this whole “Christ is a mythological figure” idea. Nearly all of them fall into one of two camps: secular or New Age conspiracy theorists who build their ideas on dubious, outdated scholarship; or fundamentalist apologists who are trying to debunk the ideas of the conspiracy theorists. For a treatment of the subject that even comes close to objectivity, you’re going to have to head to a real library and hunt down some books by real historians, but those can be hard to find considering that the whole topic just isn’t that interesting to most people in the academy since it seems so implausible and, as I said, is usually based on scholarship that’s been outdated for decades if not a century or more.
Scott seems to be buying into the ideas of the conspiracy quacks, which isn’t surprising, given his past record of being willing and eager to believe everything that might have a chance of making Judaism look superior than Christianity.

NateW.:
Why couldn’t JC be a mythological figure invented by the Greeks? He was invented, so why not by the Greeks? ) IMO he may have lived, but all the other things said about him, not so true. An ordinary Jewish man of his time, a teacher, who had different ideas about the God they worshiped. Of course he did run around with 12 dudes and a few women as he was “preaching.” There have been lots of prominent religious teachers over time, he was just one of many. Thus there are many different religions with different folks being worshiped.

There may have been a lot of teachers running around but none like Jesus who continues personal relationships with His devoted. I realize that makes a lot of people a little jealous and eager to be on the attack but the truth of the matter most followers of Jesus are intelligent, successful and giving people who do good. There is no other figure on record to make such a continued impact on the earth. I don’t know why these people are waving flags in support of a government it is not nor ever has been about that with Jesus. It is however about learning to love one another a thing which no nation has learned especially Israel. The good news is that some of these Christians have helped Israel’s poor and many have been more concerned about feeding folk instead of bombing them.

Yes, Your Name, there have been a lot of teachers running around, and through great publicity, aka the bible, he got promoted to a big time leader. However, that doesn’t diminish other religions…Buddha, Mohammed,the Goddess and God etc. all are equal to JC, IMO anyhow.
Learning to love one another is a noble idea, but religion has been the source of many wars….some of whom have been Christians, spreading their love by invading other countries as well as the U.S. when this country was being settled and “converting” them by force. That’s love and tolerance? There is a motive to those flag waving Christians…to help keep Israel a country, so when JC reappears, the prophcy will “come true”…just like a fairy tale. Does Israel need Christians to help feed the poor in their country? They could be giving that help to the poor in this country….

“Does Israel need Christians to help feed the poor in their country?”
To answer that question pagan; I would say not if they were not so invested in war and war machines. And yes Christians are feeding poor in this country also and in Africa, India, South America, and the list of countries and Islands go on and on. But flag waving to “help keep Israel a country” I wouldn’t do it personally (as a Christian from a Christian’s point of view.)I highly doubt if Jesus would either.

cknuck:
Why wouldn’t JC support Israel? He was born a Jew and died a Jew. It only makes sense to me that he would support the country and religion he was born into. Wasn’t he called “the King of the Jews by his persecuters?

And who were His persecutors? But that’s not my point; the direction Israel is going in is not in line with what Christ teaches His followers. And as the Christ He is much more than some land dispute. In the deepest sense of Jewishness or humanity land does not define a people, after all He was homeless.

cknuck,how was JC homeless? His folks had a home…he chose to travel about the land doing his thing…he could have had a job that earned him a living, and still preached. Wasn’t he a carpenter?( or was that Joseph?). That certainly would have been a useful job, just like it is today.
I understand that your point was that JC might not sanction the Israel of today. However it was still his country. Am sure there are citizens of Israel that aren’t happy with things right now…after all, being a citizen of a country (democracy)doesn’t mean that one has to support all of its’ policies. After all, as much as I love this country doesn’t mean I agree with all of its’ policies…Iraq, etc.

Yes, cknuck, I know there was no country of Israel in JC’s time, when I made the statement “However it was still his country.”