Sadly, there is a great deal of misinformation regarding LDS support of prop 8 leading many to conclude that the Mormons have some sort of vendetta against gays.
Fortunately, this is not true. Church leaders themselves have officially stated that they do not oppose the legalization of domestic partnerships so that gays may obtain the rights they deserve.
I respect the right of gay marriage proponents to peacefully protest, but they should do so with a correct understanding of the church’s position on gay rights.

“Never before has discrimination been written into an American constitution.”
Okay, that comment was just stupid.
“This sets an extremely dangerous precedent. They’re forcing their brand of morality on us.”
I’m sorry, you’re protesting outside their church because they voted a way you didn’t like. What exactly do you call that? Politics basically is nothing BUT different moralities trying to force themselves onto people. A morality that says gay marriage is okay vs. one that says it’s not. A morality that says more money should be given to the poor vs. one in favor of self-sufficiency. Et cetera. Stop pretending to be amoral. That’s not a good thing, anyway.
“The time has come to take it out there to the people who voted for this awful thing…The Mormon church has had to rely on our tolerance in the past, to be able to express their beliefs… This is a huge mistake for them. It looks like they’ve forgotten some lessons.”
Okay, THAT comment? Just plain creepy. I’m sorry, but just think about that. Basically, she’s saying, “Yeah, we’ve been nice and let you practice your little ‘freedom of religion’ so far. But now you’ve ticked us off, so…”
The LDS Church members, of course, did nothing but raise money for their issue. They did not force anyone to vote a certain way. They did not make up a huge bulk of the electorate. You would not be crying “theocracy” if the UCC or the Episcopalians or another pro-gay church had raised an equal amount of money that managed to get Prop. 8 destroyed. And plus, you’re freakin’ California, where gays have been doing fine for decades. You’ll almost certainly have gay marriage in a few years. Get over it until then. Oy.
And as always, God bless.

“‘Myriad rights are denied to civil unions that married couples can have,’ San Francisco writer Armistead Maupin said”
Actually, that is a completely false statement. Same-sex couples in a domestic partnership have every right that any other married couple has.
From the family code:
297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights,
protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they
derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules,
government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.

“The time has come to take it out there to the people who voted for this awful thing,” said San Francisco Supervisor Bevan Dufty. “The Mormon church has had to rely on our tolerance in the past, to be able to express their beliefs “… This is a huge mistake for them. It looks like they’ve forgotten some lessons.”
Translation: We will allow you freedom of speech and religion only if it is speech and religion we agree with.
“This is a huge mistake for them. It looks like they’ve forgotten some lessons.” Translation: These Mormons seem to have forgotten what persecution feels like, we may have to re-teach them.
This comes from an elected representative, a so-called responsible citizen!

By denying same gender couples the right to marry, the government is practicing discrimation …plan and simple. The supreme court of California said that marriage is legal…well, then the “voters” decided it really isn’t. That is rediculous. As to the LDS and other “Christians” who helped push prop. 8′s success? Religion needs to stay out of a right guaranteed by the U.S. Contitution.”All men are created equal. (and women too, which they forgot to mention).

Willard-
We completely understand the Mormon Church’s position. We also understand that the church did not directly donate money to the Vote Yes on Prop 8 group…..the simply repeatedly encouraged their faithful to donate money again and again. We also understand that organizations such as the church can not vote….the church simply repeatedly encouraged their faithful to vote in favor.
Willard and other….we clearly understand what the Mormon church did…we also clearly understand what the Roman Catholic church did….we also clearly understand what several other churches and church leaders did.
ENOUGH with the nonsense about gays and others trying to force morality on you! ENOUGH!
Nobody is trying to force anyone to have a same-gendered marriage. Rather, prejudice-supportive people are preventing people from marrying the consenting adult of their choice.
How anyone who voted yes on Prop 8 can have a clear conscious is beyond me! No gay person’s marriage effect your marriage or your ability to marry one iota! You personally loose nothing if gay people marry! Gays/lesbians loose the ability to marry because of Prop 8!
How any member of the Mormon church and/or Roman Catholic church who knows the history of their church and the USA could vote to take away rights is beyond me!
Since I keep hearing so many talk about the will of the people and the majority’s vote….perhaps it would be a good idea to go back to limiting in which states the Roman Catholic church and the Mormon church can exist!
Peace!

There were a LOT of people whose ancestors had experienced vile bigotry who supported bigotry in that ballot. I’m glad people who happily voted to hurt other people are having a little inconvenience themselves.

We have been asked by our President Elect to consentrate on what we have in common with each other instead of what divides us. This would be a good subject to start with so we are on the same page to go forward and change our country together. When the division is the lack of respect, understanding, and disregard of the Gay population and their families that have given birth to them and raised them; we need to get this resolved and behind us as fast as we can. It is just as important as the economy, health insurance, the war, and everything else in America at this time. This issue of inequality because of Religious beliefs of some people has to end. Psychologically this abuse to these families and the gay people have caused suicides, beatings, killings, ostracizing for too many years, it needs to end. I hope our Mr. Obama will put this problem right up there with all the others in the coming year.

Without Prop 8 the term “marriage” is just “some relationship between some people”. When government orders us all to believe that “marriage” includes every form of human sexual relationship, it in effect establishes a state religion which celebrates that no marriage is unique . . . . how does that benefit anyone?
We all agree the terms “heterosexuality”, “homosexuality” and “bisexuality” involve unique relationships. How does society benefit from suddenly ignoring those unique differences by using the same legal term, “marriage”, to define all human sexual relationships? We currently protect various defined races, ethnicities, etc., without ignoring their unique differences, why must it be different when we look to sexuality?
Gays are spitting on Latinos & Blacks and their right to Vote and be counted! Latino & Black cultures have lifted and improved our society – while self-centered whining Gays refuse to acknowledge the important role of Latinos and Blacks.

Gays are spitting on Latinos and Blacks and their right to vote and be counted!?
Are you having a “stretch” Royalmack? They are not spitting on anyone. They have said out in CA in the news that Latinos and Blacks came out in big numbers for Obama and didn’t understand the Prop 8, because of what they were told in their churches. Self-centered whining Gays refuse to acknowledge the important role of Latinos and Blacks. Hardly, since a large amount of them are gay themselves. Try again.

H22 “Hardly, since a large amount of them are gay themselves.”
Who decided that? “a large amount”?
Why in the world should Mormons have to have security because they exercised their right to vote. The issue was up for vote people voted and the fact that they voted in B.O. and prop 8 shows they gave thought to what they were voting for and made conscious decisions for prop 8. I don’t think the Mormons were the majority and those “Latinos and Blacks” voted in a large way for prop 8 and were not intimidated and will not be now. If the Mormon need security I’ll go. I fought for people to have the right to vote and I’ll defend that right again.

cknuck,
Oh, please! No one is decrying the right of Mormons to vote! But having voted, they deserve all the negative attention they’re receiving. They threw themselves into the political fight. They gave milliions to deny gay and lesbians their civil rights. If they can’t stand the aftermath, they should have stayed out of the fray. It’s so typical of religous bigots to hide behind their god and their veneer of love when the going gets rough. If you’re a religous bigot, then be a religous bigot and be proud (god’s on you side after all, no?).

A lot of people are trying to figure out why Prop 8 upsets gays so much. They have domestic partnership after all, right?
Until you‘re gay, and you hear constant rhetoric about “knowing your place” you won’t understand. Maybe African Americans and Latino’s can. They hear that sort of subtle rhetoric all the time. It comes from our government, right wing bigots, and yes, religious groups, discussing Illegal Immigration, Affirmative Action and crime rates. The comments seem innocuous unless you are one of the people the comments are directed at. When you are a minority, you always see things different than the majority. In this case, Gays are the minority. They are the last minority that State and Federal governments openly discriminate against. First, we can’t serve openly in the military. Second, what few state governments that recognize domestic partnerships, do it more as a method of placation to the LGBT community than anything else. Let’s face it, “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and “Domestic Partnership” are like a lollipop’s a doctor gives you if you don’t cry as he’s is inflicting pain. It’s a cruel cover up for the reality of what’s being done. You can deny that, hide behind pretenses of tradition or religious dogma, claim it’s a state or legislative or majority rule issue, and you can say you are doing what’s good for society, but in the end, dear doctors, you are inflicting pain on other individuals in that society.
But a couple points about the difference between marriage and domestic partnership.
In the U.S. if a male or female citizen marries and non-citizen, that non-citizen is automatically eligible to apply for alien residency inside the United States. Domestic partners don’t get such preference.
If a man and woman marry in California, that marriage is recognized by all 50 states. That means all other states will honor inheritance rights, child custody rights, adoption rights, and power of attorney rights. Domestic partnership only affords that inside California. Only a few other states recognize domestic partnership rights.
When you marry all the government social welfare programs like Social Security kick in, and the spouse making the highest wage is used to determine benefits on the death or disability of one of the spouses. Social Security doesn’t recognize Domestic Partnership.
The reason the Gay community goes for “Marriage” is that it’s a means to and end, that end being equality. For the “Yes, on 8’ers” you can call “Gay Marriage” “Domestic Partnership” if you want. It’s our lollipop to you to preserve the sanctity of marriage. But make Domestic Partnership equal, right now, its not.
–And for those of who think giving us equal domestic partnership in California will be a lollipop to keep the gay communities cries at bay: you are mistaken. We aren’t going to stop crying, protesting, lobbying, suing and fighting until all fifty states, and the federal government recognize Domestic Partnership on pare with Marriage.

The members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints won’t hate anyone or discriminate guy people. They are just trying to protect their believe. They believe that marriage is between one man and one woman like the Holy Bible say: Don’t you thing everyone is free to believe what they want to believe? You guys! Just Drop it!
America spoke that they want a marriage to be only one man and one woman.
They want to follow that simple fact!! That’s all!
You have a civil right to do but you have NO RIGHT TO THREAT People like sending threatening letter to the Christians and signed NAZI!
That’s a crime! DROP IT! AND MOVE ON YOU LIFE! EVEN PRESIDENT OBAMA TOLD THAT HE IS AGAINST GUY MARRIAGES AT MEGA CHURCH! JUST DROP IT!

This whole argument (I believe) is about civil rights. Once you take semantics out of the vairous discourses one is left with this one question….. is there equality in the United States of America – or not. When anyone is discriminated against there needs to be improvment in the “…and liberty and justice for all.” I believe Keith Oberman has the most honest and accurate description of marriage (and it is what I have said all along)….Marriage should be about love and only love…personal choices; especially those that harm none would best be accepted. That is truely living in a free country.

The whole issue of civil rights makes this all the more difficult. It is true that there is now two sets of rights, for those who are married, and a lesser set for those who are not. Sexual orientation is only a part of the entire issue. Why are there two sets of rights? Long ago it was settled that there should not be more than one set of civil rights. If this is not so, then I see whole communities enraged and taking to the streets.

Like Domestic Partnership everyone should be able to name one person to receive the benefits of what a spouse would receive, whether that be a brother, sister or friend. Otherwise it is not fair for single people who do the same job but are not married or have a domestic partner.

I decided that Cknuck. I lived there for 40 years, how many years have you lived there? The Gay issues are no longer just a states problem it is a Nations problem because they are not receiving the equality that our American Constitution promises us. My grandparents, my father immigrated from Sweden because of this equality thing that all of you are willing to stamp all over to put your religious acceptance on. They are all gone home to God, but I’m still here and I’ll fight for equality for all as long as I’m here.
You fought so people could have the right to vote Cknuck? The men in my life, and family fought in WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. Some didn’t make it home, but if they had they would tell you that one of the big reasons for our country is that all are equal, no matter what their religious belief. We shouldn’t have to vote on who is more equal in our country.

Ps, nnmns,John Q, Jesterfyl, I found this jumping around on the net, thought you would be interested.
http://www.californiansagainsthate.com/dishonorRoll.html

Henrietta, interesting find. There are some real kooks and at least a few slimy people among those who gave a ton of money to take rights away from homosexuals.

Now, is this new posting method a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist? I haven’t noticed much spam at all on here.

No one took rights away from homosexuals, homosexuals and their supporters tried to reinvent marriage and failed. People voted what marriage should stay as it has been since it’s very conception.

They had the right to get married in California, now they don’t because a slim majority of California voters took that right away from them, at least for now.

CA has taken the phrase, used by many to describe this country “Land of the free and home of the brave”, and stepped on it (as have other states). If one can’t marry the person of their choice, how is this the “land of the free?” EQUALITY is all GLBT are asking for….something that was finally granted to all citizens of the USA in the 1960′s when the Blacks got tired of being treated as 2nd class citizens (even though Lincoln had freed the slaves in the 1860′s).

The above post, 13 Nov. 11:43 AM is mine..pagansister.

“Same-sex couples in a domestic partnership have every right that any other married couple has.”
Speaking of “completely false statements” (on which you seem to be quite the expert, Erin), you know very well that what you quoted only applies to the State of California, and that Maupin was speaking of th 1,176 Federal rights and obligations that do NOT apply to same-sex couples.
Ain’t bearing false witness a sin in your church anymore?

ck,
“No one took rights away from homosexuals”
Clearly they did. You must have not read the news. Or, you’re bearing false witness again/still.
“homosexuals and their supporters tried to reinvent marriage and failed.”
Wrong again. The CA Legislature voted – TWICE! – and the CASC agreed that gay citizens have the same rights as you betterosexuals. And you just don’t happen to like it.
And it seems that fully 48% of the people disagree with you.

“Gays are spitting on Latinos & Blacks and their right to Vote and be counted!”
Too bad you don’t even question why anyone’s rights were put to a vote in the first place.
Too bad you don’t even question why a Constitution can be changed at whim by a simple majority.
Too bad you don’t even question why this Prop is any more ‘Constitutional’ than the clearly UN-Constitutional one the SC of CA struck down.
Too bad you don’t question voters “spitting” on the Constitution to begin with.

People wanted to make misinformation clear that the constitution does not now nor ever did support homosexual marriage that’s what the vote was about. The people have spoken and they are saying no matter how much some people try to barrage us with misinformation we know it was never an intention of the framers to have the constitution support homosexual marriage, never.

Where in the Constitution does it mention marriage, cknuck? Heterosexual or homosexual? It starts out saying that “all men are created equal”, not all men except homosexuals, are created equal. Of course the framers had slaves and women had no rights, but withan awful Civil War and Lincoln the slaves were freed, to have to fight for their civil rights yet again in the 1960′s. Women had to__fight for their individual rights to vote, own property etc. ____BTW, how do you know what the intentions of the framers was? Because they might have had a few Christians it is probable that they wouldn’t have allowed the homosexuals in their group (and I’m sure there were a few)to marry? ____It is a case of giving all our citizens their civil rights. Rightly or wrongly Blacks and women had to fight for their civil rights, and unfortunately now homosexuals are having to. They will win their “God given rights” and you won’t even notice a change in your life. __

If God had given the rights then homosexuals would be designed differently

“People wanted to make misinformation clear that the constitution does not now nor ever did support homosexual marriage”
Funny thing, then, that the Constitution has an equal protections clause. pagan sister is correct, not even heterosexual marriage is mentioned in the Constitution, but being treated equally before the law most definitely is.
“that’s what the vote was about.”
Speaking of misinformation …
The vote was “about” taking away the right to be treated equally before the law from one identifiable group of people, which is why the vote itself was clearly UN-Constitutional.
“The people have spoken”
You don’t seem to accept that “the people” spoke about segregation and about inter-racial marriages, and the courts had to correct the mistakes that “the people” made then, too.
“and they are saying no matter how much some people try to barrage us with misinformation we know it was never an intention of the framers to have the constitution support homosexual marriage, never.”
They probably wouldn’t have imiagined it, any more than they would have imagined a white person “marrying” a black person (who, as I’m sure you are well aware) were for owning, not marrying. But then there’s that pesky equal protections clause. Tell us, ck, should black people (well, they were only considered, what was it, 2/3 of a ‘person’ then) not be allowed to benefit from that clause either?
Give us the complete list of just who is and is not covered under the Constitution. It should make for interesting reading.

Civil rights include the right to vote, own property, etc. There is not a single ‘civil right’ denied homosexual couples. Civil rights do not include the ability to redefine institutions that predate our nation, to accomodate the popular beliefs of a minority. Marriage, in all of history until now, was between a man and a woman. That is the definition of marriage.
It is not okay to change the definition of that institution because an angry mob, in the heat of anonymity, and false bravery, spray paint temple fences, burn scriptures, and threaten the lives, homes, businesses and employment of those who contribute to the maintaining of the definition of marriage.
The cool thing about truth, is that it doesn’t bow to popularity. History, high and volitle emotions, war and threats do not change truth. Amend the constitution. Legislate that any opinion or speech recognizing that marriage is between a man and a woman is hate speech. It will change what we can do, but it won’t change the truth; that marriage is a union between a man and a woman.
Charlotte
standingfortruthonline@gmail.com

Charlotte great post

Charlotte’s post doesn’t “stand for truth”; it stnads for her version of history and not much was true in it.
FYI, to both Charlotte and you, ck, the civil right that is being denied is the right to be treated equally under the law – the 14th Amendment, I believe.
No one is saying that traditional marriage is “hate speech” – such utter nonsense. Nor is traditional marriage in any danger.
No wonder you are known as the delusional right. You want special rights for some citizens – clearly UN-Constitutional.