When one looks at the terminology used lesbian, gay (homosexual) bisexual and transgenders, then Robinson is right in saying they cannot be praying to the same God, none of these behaviors are supported biblically no matter how you spin them.

But slavery, plural marriage, regarding women as property, and a whole list of other nauseating practices ARE supported biblically. So is the sort of deity that you can avoid by running behind a tree. But we have learned better than these things and many people now know better than persecuting gays.

Well said, rvk. And well said Bishop Robinson.

I am so glad that cknuck’s god is growing weak and losing appeal as more people learn that God is living and vibrant, loving and inclusive. The abuse of slavery, treating people as property, beating children, stoning those considered criminals have been left behind (along with less restrictions on eating shell fish, touching menstruating women, etc). We are in the process of leaving behind similar condemnation of gay men and lesbians.

There is one God or there is not. Making this a “he’s not praying to MY God” sounds far to much like a kindergartner saying, You’re not my friend and you can;t come to my birthday”.
I am one person. But if my son wants something, I am one thing; if my daughter needs something, I am different. Their interests are different from each other’s though they overlap mine in many ways. For that reason I need to relate to them both in different ways. I believe that God is greater than our petty squabbles and above any restrictions we might think we can impose. Robinson, Warren, ck, and I all pray, relate to, and are call by the One God. And I pray we all learn this and allow the diversity of faith and unity in God, allowing this unbalanced equation to guide us and drive us toward each other in spite of our objections.

Everybody’s getting in the act on this issue, and all the way down the line the most laughable aspect of it is how they all speak for God, putting their words in His mouth. “Oh, my God is a loving and all-accepting God. He’s the ‘I’m OK You’re OK God’, don’t you know. He accepts me as I am.”
Problem is, the God of the Bible DOESN’T accept all people as they are– that’s why the book is full of warnings, commandments, admonitions and promises of estrangement to those who don’t live up to His teachings– in the New Testament as well as the Old. He loves all of His children equally, sure, but that doesn’t mean he approves of the paths or behaviors they’ve chosen. Christian gays and pro-gay Christians ham-handedly try to explain away the scriptural references that condemn homosexuality, such as in Leviticus, Romans and I Corinthians and turn the tables on those who adhere to such beliefs that THEY are the sinners for their “bigotry,” “hatred” and “intolerance.” Up is down, as they say. Black is white.
It isn’t just the gay community, of course. Many others renovate God to fit their lifestyles and points of view– including the zealots of the Extreme Right and all manner of secular movements.
You may eventually get society to cry “uncle” after all your whining, bullying, blackballing and manipulations of the law. But don’t pretend you’re going to get the same reception from God.

Thank you for posting this conversation and sharing the articulate response of Bishop Robinson to the Warren selection. cknuck, you are absolutely wrong on the Bible, which has been mistranslated and misused for centuries to deny the equality and full humanity of women, African Americans and LGBT people. There are strong arguments to be made against the traditionally homophobic mischaracertization of the Leviticus, Romans and Sodom texts. This is not spin — it is scholarship. I would be glad to provide references if your mind is open to learning.

TomWins i the tactic to compare homosexuality to slavery is weak and old homosexuality is a lifestyle a sexual preference. People have been waiting for my God to grow weak for centuries. The applies to Your Name your attempt to include homosexuality with African Americans (a race of people) and women fails because homosexuality is a sexual preference which is not supported by any gene or DNA. Even from a skeleton one can tell if the person was African American or a woman but there is no way outside of sexual activity evidence can a homosexual be detected. Although it is a common thing to attempt and try to blend and blur homosexuals with races and gender but there is no support other than sexual preferences.
jest God imposes restrictions and to preach that He doesn’t is no correct or supported by the Bible. The Bible says that God is intolerant to sin, it also says homosexuality is a sin and in order to put God in your reasoning one would have to re-write the Bible to what supports their agenda. period.

‘I think he is praying to a God, at least around this issue, that calls upon God’s homosexual children to deny who they are, to deprive themselves of love and intimacy that is permitted every other one of God’s children. He’s praying to a God who calls on me, as a gay man, to change, to submit myself to the power of Jesus so I can be healed of this `infirmity’ of mine.’
So which is it, Eugene?!? Is he telling you to deny who you are, to deprive yourself of love and intimacy that is permitted bla bla bla, or is he calling on you, as a gay man, to change, to submit yourself to the power of Jesus so you can be healed of this ‘infirmity’ of yours? You really can’t have it both ways, Eugene. Even a pre-kindergartner would have the deductive reasoning skills to avail himself of the logical absurdity you have presented. Or in your convoluted reasoning is he calling on you to deprive yourself of love and intimacy that is permitted every other one of God’s children WHILE calling on you, as a gay man, to change, and thus experience heterosexual intimacy? Beam me up, Scotty.
‘The difficult thing is that he’s said, and continues to affirm, some horrendous things about homosexuality — comparing it to incest, bestiality, that kind of thing.’
There’s a HUGE difference between comparing and debunking the reasoning behind the thrust of an argument. One of the most common is that ‘they can’t help it’. This argument won’t stand on its own unless it is used in conjunction with some other argument(s).
‘Imagine the difference between a parent who loves you for you who are, and one that says I’ll only love you if you change.’
Another glaring example of verbal engineering. God WILL love all of us no matter whether we choose to make the rules as we go along or rather we choose to wholly submit ourselves to HIS will. The difference is up to us.
In my humble opinion, Eugene, you have failed miserably as a shepherd of the flock with your Burger King (have it your way) brand of religion. Even so, I’m just a layman. I pray that priests and ministers everywhere have the courage to tell their sheep when they are leading a destructive lifestyle and to amend their ways. Go Pastor Warren!!

cknuck, David T, and Tom-
Why do you try to limit and define God?
There is a “destructive lifestyle” involved….it is the lifestyle of prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry.
I guess if you spin the Bible enough….one can make a case that the Bible justifies the destructive lifestyle of prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry. However, I prefer to follow the teachings of our Lord than to as outlined in Matt 22 36-40.
+Robinson is a great leader!
Peace!

‘There is a “destructive lifestyle” involved….it is the lifestyle of prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry.’
Truer words have never been spoken. I’m not okay with substance abuse (as a former addict) yet I’m not prejudice against addicts. I don’t agree with legalized prostitution yet I’m not prejudice against prostitutes since they’re usually the victims in these ‘victimless’ crimes. Would I be going out on a limb to say that God may be against things such as these? I’ve never even remotely attempted to ‘limit’ or ‘define’ God. Love in its purest form requires honesty even at the risk of being ridiculed or labeled a bigot. Matt 22 36-40 are great bible verses to live by.
Pastor Warren is an excellent pastor.
Peace to you as well Johnny Q.

ck,
“homosexuality is a lifestyle a sexual preference”
For this statement to be true, it would have to follow that heterosexuality is likewise a “lifestyle” and nothing more than a “preference”. We might begin to believe your ‘argument’ if you could tell us when you chose to be heterosexual. You won’t/don’t/can’t, so we’re not sure why you think we should believe what you type.

Tom,
When you speak of God asking gay people to “change”, it’s strange that you (nor anyone else) never speak of heterosexuals being able to “change”.
You never explain why Robinson should have to forego love and intimacy.
Nor why he should “submit [him]self to the power of Jesus so [he] can be healed of this ‘infirmity’”. No one else has been so “healed”. (And I think you missed the fact -and the irony – in Robinson’s use of the word “infirmity”. That is an appellation of the ‘right’.)
Nor why a homosexual would even want to “thus experience heterosexual intimacy”. Do you heterosexuals desire to experience homosexual intimacy? So laffable.
Your ‘loving’ comparisons of our relationships (just like Warren’s) to pederasty and necrophihlia are just as odious and false as Warren’s. Neither children nor corpses can give consent. We are speaking of adult consenting relationships. You and your side conveniently ignore this fact.
You speak of “choos[ing] to wholly submit ourselves to [God's] will”. You simply have a different understanding of God’s will than we do. And, you cannot possibly know God’s will – for other people; only for yourself.
And, you fail utterly to explain how our relationships are “destructive”. You do not, you cannot because they are not. Stop with the constant bearinng of false witness about God’s gay and lesbian children.
P.S. To ck,
The ‘race’ comparison is because both race and sexual orientation are innate, immutable characteristics.

Two errors in medical findings Ck. l. bones can not identify a male from a female child, at least, as Caylee could only be identified by the conformation of the pubic bones, to ID her as a female child. 2. The brain scans of Gay people, men, are different than straight men. Heard l. on Tv, and read 2. on LA Science.com.
The fact that remained after Bishop Robinson’s evaluation on Warren was one I’ve heard (read repeatedly) in comments after news articles. They feel the same as he did about the symbology that is attached to the invocation minister for an inugural swearing in. He tried to smooth his meanings about LGBT, Warren that is, and that’s partialy acceptable considering he is a fundamentalist. What I don’t understand at all is why He and his church will not recognize a divorce from abuse to either partner. We are paying through donations all over America for Violence Centers to help mostly women and children from being killed because of aggressive men who are either married or living with women. Anyone that believes this because it isn’t mentioned in the Bible has to have something missing between their ears.

H22, I love you but you never cease to confuse me. I’ve got to make the main thing the main thing and as it concerns the Bible homosexuality is sinful and harmful. Now when you come to bisexuality it is very clear that no way anywhere in the Bible this type of behavior is anything less than sinful. To look at it in any light it is wrong. Robinson is probably bisexual and he left his wife and children to be with a man (not in anyway good). Transgender, well that is a defiant, vain, and a few of other things I cannot mention and stay cordial. The truth is that all of these behaviors are not only vanity and defiant to God but totally goes against the original design of humans and the full spiritual ramifications have yet to be realized.

It seems as if Robinson and Warren could get along better than some of our companions on B’net!

I thought someone would agree that Warrens Church’s belief that ABUSE in a marriage isn’t reason for a divorce is unbelievable in 2009. This is the second time I’ve brought this up on belief.nets articles, and so far I’m the only one that finds this unintelligent. It makes me wonder that if his church is so very large in CA, that there must be abuse going on between partners that is being swept under their church rugs.

Henrietta,
I must confess (with an air of pride) that I have mostly ignored Warren in all of his forms. So I did not know about his rather backward thinking on divorce, homosexuality, and apparently several other issues. I might have suspected as such, so ignoring him seemed to be an intuitive choice on my part. I think he is throwing back to an era that has past – with good reason. I often wonder if heads of mega-anything are so out of touch that their pronouncements are simple blasts in he wind. Sadly, this guy now has a following. I hope someone responsible and credible begins to educate him. We do not need another Fallwell.

People are generally jealous if a leader has a big following and they do not so they take shots.

Quite an interesting dialogue going on here. Both sides of this issue appear mostly respectful and intelligent. I spent the better part of an hour reading a “thread” of dialogue on the Prop 8 subject from a Utah and mostly Morman online publication, and the bitter hate, ignorance and invective (mostly from the local Mormans) was frightening.
Congratulations to everyone here for keeping the dialogue mostly respectful, thoughtful and intelligent. We will never all agree about everything, but being willing to listen to others and also contribute our own thoughts on a subject go a long way.
Both Pastor Warren and Bishop Robinson are good men in their own right. Sure there are some disagreements, and I would tend to agree more with Bishop Robinson, but in all fairness, we do have to give Pastor Warren credit where credit is due. He has contributed much to the greater good in our world, and he has done it by example. Maybe Obama could have made a better choice, but remember, he could have made much worse a choice (Rev. Wright for example). Warren will give a fine invocation at the inaugural and we will all live through it just fine.

Jestrfyl,
Warren is far from being another Jerry Falwell. We may not like his views about gay people, but we should respectfully try to show him those parts of his beliefs that we hold to be wrong. I was no fan of Jerry Falwell, and I enjoyed what Senator Barry Goldwater once said about him “…someone ought to give Falwell a good kick in his ass.” Like him or not, Falwell was right on at least some things.

Thanks for thinking about what I posted Jestr. R. Warren does lots of good things for poverty and AIDS patients, we read about this a lot. What you don’t read about is that he is against women, in as much as he is against Planned Parenthood, other womens rights in churches, etc. He only believes in divorce for the two reasons that are in the Bible. Abuse in America for women and children has increased and if marriages could not be dissolved, and other relationships it would be far worse. Some women and children are tracked down and beaten again, some killed after they have left the protecting Violence Centers in America. Warren has been put on a pedestal, and I don’t think he has passed the pedestal place. That shouldn’t happen until he can turn 360 degrees on his pedestal and there is no glaring reason for him not to be there.

HUH?

Gene is convinced that Warren is wrong and vice versa. Only difference is that Warren has 2,000 years of history behind him and the Episcopal church has been accused of conforming to culture instead of waging a war on sin. He who wages war on his own sin is at peace with God; he who is at peace with his sin wages a war against God. How did the Episcopal church end up with the latter argument?
I am an Episcopalian. However, I do not share the same views at all with Shori and Robinson. They have turned the notion of sin upon its head to rewrite the Bible as affirming of deviant lifestyles (Boomers). At the same time how we respond to such Apostasy defines our heart as well. Hardening the heart only supports their case in God’s eyes. Acquiescing to it because it is the way of the world and not the way of the Lord is bad was well. Find the answer within yourself with love and conviction and go with it. God will correct you if you are wrong and have an ear to listen.

Ck, Huh! If you were a woman being beaten up daily, and your church leader said work it out, you don’t have reason for a divorce would you still say, Huh!
RG, being born GLBT, is the way of some people in the world. It is up to Gods people to show love, and compassion, not disapproval, judgment, and disparagement. And they are just as much God’s people as all of us heterosexuals. We have found a conviction in our hearts.

H22 there is no concrete proof that folk are born homosexual or bisexual and certainly not transgender, no gene no DNA markers no proof. So your argument has no proof to support it.

The Medical Findings on GLBT have more to support it than what you think supports it ck.

Bishop Robinson,
Thank you for your individual courage, and your eloquence on why Rick Warren INSULTS gay Americans like myself.
As much as I dislike what Warren did on prop 8, and what he’s compared us to, I discovered my real anger is at Obama’s(both Barack and Michelle.) Warren was nothing to me, he would never have gotten anywhere near my core self. I trusted Michelle, actually she got me beyond the Donnie McClurkin incidence which turned me off Obama. She spoke to the Stonewall Democrats, and we believed her. We came to trust Barack too. i donated and invested myself in Obama’s campaign more than any other politician.
The betrayal of Obama choosing Warren to SPIT ON me on Day One….ends that trust.

For all the “Christians” who want to translate the Old Testament rules through Jesus’ teachings and His actions are mistaken. Jesus LOVED St. John the Divine. Jesus turned over the care of his mother to John as he hung on the cross,(John was the ONLY apostle with the courage not to deny Jesus, or go into hiding.) Jesus instructs Mary to acknowledge John as her son too. John is described resting his head on Jesus’ chest during the Last Supper.
I have no fear as a gay man being judged by Jesus, but many of you may need to worry.

John and Jesus’ relationship was not homosexual and it is not surprising that someone would anonymously suggest such a thing. It only serves to show the type of teaching that will grow out of the homosexual agenda. Sad and low but a glimpse at what is to come, true colors.

1 Corinthians 6:8-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Obama must be sick. How can he ask the Bishop Gene Robinson to pray for him instead of Rev. Rick Warren.
I support Rev. Rick Warren.
I don’t think he can be a good president. He just want to please the gay and lesbian people, and that is NOT right. Ridiculous!!

You can’t be gay and Christian; its simply an oxymoron. The problem is, gays want to have things both ways because they feel they are “good people”. However, a lot of people who think they are “good” aren’t living their life in accordance to the teachings of Christ. No where in the Bible is homosexuality supported. In fact, no main stream, tenured religion supports homosexuality; what a coincidence, huh? To all the gays that want to argue, do what you will, convince yourself that what you do is justifiable, just don’t push your perverse beliefs on others.

Gene said, “The God I know says to me, just like we hear God saying at Jesus’ baptism, that you are my beloved, and in you I am well pleased. That’s a very, very different God. Imagine the difference between a parent who loves you for you who are, and one that says I’ll only love you if you change.”
Yo Gene! What do you think repent means? It translates literally “to turn away”. In other words, God FULLY EXPECTS you (and me)to turn away from our sins in order to come closer to him. How in the heck did you graduate from divinity school?
You are making a God to suit yourself. It’s the oldest sin in the book. Spurgeon warned us about people like you! The path to the devil is easy underfoot and you are rolling out the red carpet.

The hate and intolerence in so many of these comments is amazing but not surprising. So many comments on the internet are so negative even vulgar often. Name calling, spitefulness, anger – how in the world are we to get along and try to make a life of loving kindness with all of this spewing from so many mouths of bitter people? Are there really that many miserable people out there willing to say anything to put down others? You folks need to search your soul to see where all of that hate is coming from.

Genesis 1:27 declares that God did not create them male, female, lesbian and gay. God tells the reader of His Word that He created them male and female. It is very specific. Aberrant sexual behavior is a result of the fall-i.e., SIN. 1 Corinthians 6:8-10 clearly warns that those who practice such a life style will not inherit the kingdom of God (Heaven). Mr. Robinson may belong to a recognized denomination, have a title as priest and an office as bishop but if the overturns the Word of the God of the Bible then, he is the priest of another God, and he is using his pulpit to declare another Gospel. Galatians 1:8 warns us that anyone preaching another Gospel is declared accursed by the Apostle Paul. 2 Corinthians 5:17 declares that when we are saved we are new creatures. Mr. Robinson twists the scriptures to his own destruction. He believes that God loves the sinner and hates the sin. Not so! Whe Christ returns, God will through both the sin and the sinner into the lake of fire. Does God save sinners who have practiced lesbian and gay life styles. Of course! But when He saves them, He saves them from their sin, and they follow after holiness rather than using their members to satify the flesh. Mr. Robinson believes a Christian can also practice his lesbian or gay sin. Sadly, Mrr. Obama does not know the Scripture that he claims to by referring to himself as a Christian.

I see many quotes from the bible here and the bible itself is a book that is incomplete, edited by whatever Pope saw fit to edit for whatever reason they deemed necessary, and is approved by men of sometimes ill repute. There is more than good reason to view the bible as an unreliable source. Although seen and used as the foundation for almost all christian based religions (mans invention, not Gods), it is an unstable and untrustworthy foundation on which to build anything. As with any publication, the source needs to be credible and after two thousand years, that is not possible.
No matter what your unreliable source is, everyone is a child of God (if you believe that nonsense), and is not subject to interpretation after two thousand years by individuals that utilize only one source of information as their guide for living and believing. That is called short sightedness and does not have the earmarks of enlightened thought.
Everyone deserves to be happy and enjoy the fruits of whatever life offers no matter who believes what.

In Psalm 53:1, the psalmist (King David) wrote: The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God”. And his son Solomon, in Proverbs 8:36B wrote concerning God “all those who hate me love death”. Again, Solomon declares in Proverbs 1 “the fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.” The great prophet Isaiah wrote in Isaiah 65: 2-3 “I have spread out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in the way which is not good, following their own thoughts, A people who continually provoke Me to My face,”
The issue with man is his heart. In prophet Jeremiah(17:9) wrote: “the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, who can know it?” Enlighted thought is exactly what man’s problem has been since the Fall. Sin contaminates the best thoughts and acts of men. With all the advances made by mankind, all we need to do to test the words of Jeremiah is to examine the suffering and evil that takes place to this very day.
While it is true that many have, in the name of the God of the Bible, done things that contradict His very words, a day is coming when final justice will be exacted. The Bible says “Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts” And again, “But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; But to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. There will be tribulation and distress”
An aberrant life style that goes against God’s will must, as God tells us, reap eternal death for “the wages of sin is death. BUT the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ reverses the sin and the curse from the Fall. A lesbian or homosexual does not have to remain that way. They can live a life in accordance with God’s Word, and then be pleasing to Him. Jesus Christ died to save His people from their sins. So, if we by faith believe in the life changing power of the Gospel, and trust in the Cross work of Jesus Christ to make full pardon for our sins, we can enjoy a blessed life living in the promises of God.
I know this to be true because it is true of me!

Good for you Bishop Robinson for all the honesty you project. Maybe more pastors will come out of the closet because of your courage and honesty. I live in Lake Forest, California down the road from Rick Warren’s mega church and I do volunteer work for OC Shanti the local AIDS organization here. And BTW Rick Warren does not donate a dime from his church to any AIDS organizations here in the OC. I know that because I asked them! Rick Warren is a charleton; and a repulsive one at that. Isn’t gluttony a sin? I guess you know Bishop Robinson that Rick Warren is a charleton. You don’t need me to tell you that. Like yourself I am an Epsicopalian born and raised. No one will come along and persuade me to be anything else. God bless you for all the work that you do for gay civil rights.

Anyone professing the name of Jesus Christ, thus referring to themselves as a Christian must love as Jesus loved. To love as Jesus loved can be pictured in how He answered the lawyer: “Love the Lord God with their entire mind and heart.“ (Matthew 22:37). Then, how are we to love Jesus? He made it very simple and plain: “ If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. (John 14:15)
To spew forth hate, vulgarity, hostility or anger would bring reproach upon the name of our Savior, as well as deny His teaching concerning our relationship with Christian brethren, as well as our neighbors and our enemies. “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (Matthew 5:44)
However, humanistic thought is an antithesis to the revealed truth of the Bible. Sadly, much of this thought has invaded the minds of those in the pew. Even more egregious is the fact that such thinking is resident in the mind of those occupying the pulpit in American churches. This leavening of Biblical truth and doctrinal standards has resulted in the strangest interpretations and uses for the Word of God. This has produced all sorts of modifications on the teachings of the Bible, in order to conform to an “enlightened mind of thought” that receives the Word of God as “ intolerant, negative, name calling, hate language etc.” that divides people and fails to cultivate a “get along” philosophy that would (left alone) produce “a life of loving kindness”. The apostle John wrote: for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God (John 12:43)
It sounds too good to refute, but I urge everyone to read their Bibles more carefully. It is a matter of life and death.
Jesus spoke to a lawyer who thought he understood everything there was to know about God, “and He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:23-25). This is very strong language, and at first glance one cloud say drenched in hatred and lacking loving kindness. But we would be wrong to think this.
Paul declared: “ ….do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” (1Corinthians 6: 9-11) He was not name calling. Paul was calling sin by its many different characteristics and names just in case we want to look at certain sins through rose-colored glasses. Would anyone dare to charge the great apostle with being intolerant, negative, hateful, or advocating that we should be totally accepting and just get along with everyone? Paul is writing to people who are Christians, but who no longer practice their pre-conversion sinful life styles, and he names those sins by their Biblical name. These Corinthian Christians were delivered from their various sins, which is actually sign of their conversion. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
Jesus further said: ” He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me “ (John 14:21) The most loving things a true believer can to do is demonstrate the converting power of the Gospel in their own lives for Christians are sinners who no longer love their sin.