A like article in the LATimes gave these figures. As reported there are 100,000 members in the new Anglican Church of North America that left the Episcopal Church, the arm of the Episcopal Church of North America. There are 2.4 million members in the Episcopal Church of NA. This isn’t that many when you compare the figures of membership of both.

Good point, Henrietta.

Apparently it’s colossal to Mr. Naughton, as he wants urine samples, written declarations, revoked membership cards and the works.

The Episcopal Church has belittled and ignored the Conservative views and have only themselves to blame for the Conservatives wanting to leave them.

The ~100,000 figure represents the approximate average Sunday attendance of the new province. This should be compared to the ~700,000 figure for the Episcopal church, a figure that is decreasing rapidly. (The Episcopal denomination is the fastest declining.)
Two events in the immediate future: 1) Ms Schori is starting to expand the litigation war four or five fold. The national church spent $2 million on lawsuits last year which formed the lion’s share of the budget deficit of $2.5 million. 2) At general convention next summer, it is widely expected that the denomination will renege on the moratorium of consecrating homosexual bishops, opening up a flood gate of Gene Robinson look alikes.
The resulting headlines will be a steady stream of lawsuits and gay activism. The mass exodus will increase markedly.

Of course it could stop the exodus now that people who so disparaged the GLBT in the Episcopal Churches for so many years, as well as women in high places, are gone and the bad feelings with them. Time will tell.

“Of course it could stop the exodus now that people who so disparaged the GLBT in the Episcopal Churches for so many years, as well as women in high places, are gone and the bad feelings with them.”
The conservative presence in the denomination is hardly gone. The Communion Partners is a conservative group of bishops and rectors who represent a membership of 300,000. South Carolina and Tennessee are part of that group are the only dioceses that have shown significant growth over the past five years in terms of ASA (Alaska and East Carolina both had 2% growth.)
Liberal dioceses couldn’t grow their numbers if their lives depended on it (and their lives DO depend on it).

Most religions either have to change or come down at some point when they realize what the religion is based on is a fallacy. At least this fight is one without violence. That is something to be thankful for.
In this case, people have begun to realize that gays are just like them and that being attracted to your own gender isn’t a handicap. Then the theology comes into play and if you start disregarding one thing, you end up evaluting everything.

robroy-
I would much rather be a member of a small denomination heading in the right direction…..than a member of a large group headed in the wrong direction. If large numbers were important then joining the Roman Catholic church would be the obvious choice.
Number of members do not indicate right actions. Large number represent only….large numbers….nothing more.
Peace!

John Q.
I agree with you that being a part of a denomination headed in the right direction is what matters, not numbers.
But joining the Catholic Church is the obvious choice, not because of its size, but because of it’s legitimate religious authority. It is the only consistent authoritative body among Christians.

Robroy brings up excellent points. The problem with the liberal churches is that, after a while, people begin forget the point of being the church at all. Those whose main concern is “progressive” causes tend to end up finding that they can better pursue those causes outside of church, and when Jesus is turned into just another good liberal Protestant, people fail to see the need to go sings hymns to him on Sunday mornings.

What I find amazing, despite the fact that I’ve encountered it over and over, is the sheer level of denial on the part of so many liberal leaders in TEC. Thus the PB vainly imagines that “the worst is over,” and Bishop Sutton of MD dismisses this new Anglican venture as if it “means nothing” for his liberal diocese.
Time will tell.
Personally, I’m convinced that we’re in the early stages of what will probably prove to be nothing less than the New Reformation. And this 21st century New Reformation is likely to split, and renew, all the so-called “mainline” denominations along liberal vs. conservative lines. And rightly so. Yes, rightly so. For as the Master said, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”
What the great church historian Jaroslav Pelikan said about the original Protestant Reformation of the 16th century I think also applies here. We are dealing with “a tragic necessity.” Yes, this kind of church divorce is ugly and tragic. But it’s also, I firmly believe, utterly justified and necessary.
A new day is dawning for Anglicanism worldwide. And I believe “the future is as bright as the promises of God.”
Fr. David Handy, Ph.D.

I hate to be the bearer of contrary news, but Rob Roy has his statistics wrong. While it is true that both the dioceses of Tennessee and South Carolina had some good growth in the late 90s and previous to 2003, both have begun to shrink over the past few years.
In fact, there is no Episcopal diocese that is growing. Conservative or liberal, doesn’t matter. They are all shrinking.
And, yes there are still some theologically conservative people left in the ECUSA. However, they are a small and shrinking minority. At this point, the ECUSA is becoming exactly what they want to be: Unitarians with liturgy.
If you want the stats, they are here: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/research_71316_ENG_HTM.htm?menupage=51354

I’d love to hear more from you David Handy

Mr Handy,
I tend to agree with you about the next Reformation. In that most reformations tend toward progressive and “liberal” causes, I expect the next substantial growth will be among those denominations that favor inclusiveness and welcome people of all races, orientations, and cultures. The tragic necessity is that some people have closed and locked the doors to a substantial group of people who are looking for a church home. It is not a social cause, but a religious one. And as Christ promoted and proclaimed welcoming all people, so also do we liberals welcome all people. It has been 500 years since the last big reformation, an the next one is coming. Enjoy the ride!

Mr. McKenzie, see http://tinyurl.com/5c35vv for the actual numerical tables. You will find that Tennessee and South Carolina increased their ASA by 7% and 6%, respectively. South Carolina has the largest 5-year membership growth (2%) any diocese, whereas Tennessee registered a 0.8% 5-year membership decrease. I specifically referred to ASA above because membership can be problematic by having a bunch of people on the rolls that haven’t gone for years. I also specifically talked about a five year period so as to avoid over-counting when Christmas comes on a weekend (as it did in 2006).
And I did not say that all conservative dioceses grow. Some got hurt bad (e.g., Quincy and Rio Grande). It is hard to convince the local church is different when the laity is seeing bishops marching in gay-pride parades on the 6:00 news. However, all of the liberal dioceses shrank.
cknuck, go to standfirminfaith.com to see more of Father Handy!

As an Episcopalian, I am happy that the conservative minority has found a way to be content holding on to their beliefs….since, that is what they seem to want.
What has been missed in all of the posts on this article is that clearly the majority of members of TEC are in fact supportive of our church’s current direction and leadership.
It seems unfortunate that our church must split……but, if that is what must happen…then so be it. Our Lord did not create TEC nor, the Anglican Communion. Both were created by humans.
Peace!

“What has been missed in all of the posts on this article is that clearly the majority of members of TEC are in fact supportive of our church’s current direction and leadership.”
Absolute rubbish. First of all, there has been no polling of the laity since the late 80′s. An attempt in the late 90′s was quashed by PB Griswold. The national leadership simply don’t want to know. However, there was a recent polling of the fairly liberal diocese of Atlanta. The results were that the laity was against blessing of same sex unions and for the moratoria of homosexual bishops.
The local parishes are being crushed by the one-up-manship of national leaders to push liberal boundaries.

robroy-
Are you here in the USA?
Within our parish, we select our rector….within our dioceses we elect our bishop. Our House of Deputies is made up of clergy and lay people from each diocese. Our PB is elected by our bishops and confirmed by our House of Deputies.
In other words, our church (TEC) leadership is elected by our members….not foisted upon us. So, how can you say: “Absolute rubbish.” in response to my statement: “…..clearly the majority of members of TEC are in fact supportive of our church’s current direction and leadership.”?
Peace!

I read what JohnQ has stated in the LATIMES. Polls are polls, not very accurate. As far as the one in Atlanta, GA, what would you expect other than a conservative take. Rubbish is so messy, there has to be another adjective to use other than that to disagree with another person.

“…..clearly the majority of members of TEC are in fact supportive of our church’s current direction and leadership.?”
More nonsense. Perhaps after hundreds of thousand more have voted with their feet, then this might be true. The average Episcopalian is clueless what is going on at General Convention. The process is so distant from the average pew potato, your conclusion is ridiculous.

robroy-
So, because you do not agree with the majority of Episcopalians…..they opinion is “nonsense”….or, they are “clueless”?
Please note, I am not making the case that numbers determine who is correct and who is not. I am simply challenging your suggestion that the membership of TEC does not support the actions of our courageous leadership. Again, we are the ones who put the leadership in place.
Peace!

A Communion which has the congregation elect its own bishops, very interesting. Do you guys elect your own god as well? If so, how often can he come up for re-election? Not meaning to be argumentative, just seems odd that authority is instilled from the bottom up.
And his spirit be with you!

The majority of Episcopalians have not been polled. The process has been manipulated. As one one analyst put it, the executive council are gays or gay wannabees. The Episcopal denomination used to be called the Republican party at prayer. The laity or what’s left of it is relatively unchanged, i.e., still conservatives. The leadership are a bunch of flamers.
But am I saddened that the liberals have chosen the abrasive Ms Schori for their “courageous” leader? Not at all. She had never been a parish rector, so we don’t know whether she could grow a church, but as bishop of Nevada she had the dead last population adjusted decline of any diocese! And they elected her presiding bishop! That really is quite droll.
And now the diocese of LA has voted to violate Rowan William’s moratoria and start officially blessing homosexual unions. Wonderful news. The “inclusive” lemmings are rushing off the cliff.

I am glad this portion broke away from the church. The bible clearly makes it known that homosexual behavior is a sin. You are either listening to the bible or you are listening to yourself and society. That,s what this really comes down to.

Darren, Robroy, and Tom, you are all so swelled up with your rightness. Your following the Bible the way you interpret it gives you no other way to have peace with God. That is sad, but necessary it seems for you and like. Go your way, but don’t disparage others from how the Holy Spirit leads them. And when it’s all said and done, the United States will give the GLBT their freedom of equality just as it has the Women, and the Blacks.

Couldn’t have said it better, Henrietta!!!

Dear Darren,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
(Yes, this letter was originally written to Dr. Laura, but if the bigotry fits…)

LaVaughn, that was very good! Funny, too. Funny that they can forget all these abominations, but hold on to Lev. and that abomination that affects living and giving people in our society. Of course when it is entirely over-looked they will be lost without it, and then what will they do?

Yes, LaVaughn, that certainly says “it all.”
Amazing what problems a 2000 year old book with lots of translations, and changes can cause. Final word, huh? I don’t think so. )

Fabulous post, LaVaughn.

Leviticus deflated when the Temple fell. All those jots and tittles are scattred like dust in the desert wind. As was so ably illuminated, they are no more applicable than are Galen’s theories of anatomy or ancient views of astronomy or physics.

“The bible clearly makes it known that homosexual behavior is a sin.”
Darren, The Bible also clearly makes it known that eating shrimp and lobster is also a sin.
It also makes it clearly known that we should put the victims of incest to death.
It also makes it known that we should stone our disobedient children.
It also makes it clearly known that we should not be permitted to divorce.
Etc.
My question is, why are you so selective about which parts of the Bible are to be ‘obeyed’?