Yet another person is getting rich selling trash to fill people’s minds. What a shame.

Creation is not trash and the person that believes it is must have access to more information than the human brain can contain, good luck on that one without some sort of “faith”. I find some things pointed here fascinating and I am a devote Christian. Thousands of scientist have doubt concerning evolution as Darwinians promote.

Um, cknuck, I’m not sure what scientists you’ve been talking to but darwinian evolution has been around for well over a century and has stood a great deal of criticism. Despite this the scientific community and even religious leaders like Pope John Paul II have accepted its truth. Quite frankly there is no proof for creation and there never has been very much unlike evolution. I hate to say it, but blind faith and indiscretion do not count as “more information than the human brain can contain”.

Remember cknuck, the Muslim creation myth will be different than your creation myth.

Well I saw this coming from a zillion miles away.
Islam does not say much about Creation because it expects readers of the Quran to be more than passing familiar with the Hebrew Testament. It is referenced many times in the Quran and each passage is worded in a way that indicated the readers know what is in Genesis. It seems ironic that the very culture that helped support the exploration of the world and developed many of the fields of science while Christianity was mired in its own religiosity is now also dealing with the same issues.
It seems that many of the Pakistani Moslem children are being influenced by the same comic book philosophy that has influenced many American Christian children – those infamous Chick comic tracts.
The only good thing that may come from this is that the Creationist conservatives from both Islam and Christianity may find a point of commonality. Has anyone wondered why the Jewish authorities, heirs to the matrial in question, have not made this a Big Problem? Maybe its becaiuse they can separate poetic interpretation of reality from actual, objective, factual analysis.

Darwinism or evolution has no basis and this has been proven very clearly. There was totally ignorance during Darwin’s time, the cell was considered to be a droplet of liquid. He did not understand that natural selection has no power to evolve anything since it cannot make any changes on the genetic information of an individual. Mutations are 99.9% harmful, these are all facts.
The Western world has already comprehended that Darwinism is a total mythology told for the last 150 years in order to turn people away from faith and belief in God’s creation.
It is not possible to fool people anymore, so yes, goodbye to Darwin…

“Why is creationism gaining ground in the Muslim world?”
What kind of a question is that? If a person is Muslim, then automaticall s/he is a creationist because the Quran states that Allah has created all things out of nothing.
With regard to evolution, evolution theory says that living things emerged out of thin air by mere chance. Take a hand full of sand in you hand, and just throw it on the ground; what is the probability of the sand forming a sand castle? It is none. But evolution says it can. This is not logical no matter where you look at it.

I’m a Muslim, and I’m a moleculer biologist. I have spent lots of years in labs, dealing with directed mutations, development of bacterial resistance etc.. And I can really say that I have proper scientific evidence that evolution has never been happened.. And also no one can show me a fossile that makes a sign of evolution. People really don’t know evolutions exact meaning. Evolution is based on coinsidence and it is full of deceptions. If it was so real, why couldn’t I see any proof? Islam is the religion of trust and being surrender of Allah. And Quran is the most precious book, that puts soul and world in order with using every kind of science, including social ones. And Harun Yahya has lots of books about this scientific explanations. You don’t need to force yourself to believe in evolution, just to be more scientific. You won’t be less scientific when you accept that deceptive evolution is not true, on the contrary you will be more sincere and trustworthy.

Darwin is dead. Darwinistic Theory of Evolution is an outdated dogma. In every field of science there is design revealed, physiology in any living body shows parts working for each other, which can not survive by themselves alone. This is the key logic! If you are willing to hear from the research site, key figures are declaring the fact of creation or the existence of a creating power in face of the design in every detail. Francis Collins, head of the human genome project or Antony Flew (TimesOnline: “Sorry, says atheist-in-chief, I do believe in God after all”) are some examples.
If someone still defends evolution then he is not aware of the up-to-date scientific facts.
Evolution is debunked by modern science, there is no way to be a dogmatic Darwinist anymore.

It is impossible for a sincere Muslim to believe in the theory of evolution. This has 2 reasons.
One is that there is no evolution; it is unbelievable that such an unverifiable and illogical theory can gain this big acceptance all over the world.Darwin himself states that his theory would be worthless if there is no intermediate fossil found.Well no such fossil is found for 200 hundred years. Scientists and governments keep spending tax payers money on a fairy tale.
Second is that it is an incontrovertible fact that we are all created.It is proved that all living things are irreducibly complex, which means that we can not have previous and less developed forms.
So HArun Yahya does a very good job of informing people about scientific issues which support creation. It is obvious that he is a true Muslim, who knows and commentates the Quran very well. For over one year ago he published a book called the Atlas of Creation, which clearly bombarded evolutionists all over the world. I got one as well
It is game over for Darwinism.

Well the past few posts show what can happen when fanatics are alerted to us.
These folks have inoculated themselves/been inoculated against evidence that goes against their religion. With them in charge there’d be very little scientific advance in biology or cosmology, maybe in geology. If someone made an interesting observation that now might might lead to a new medicine or a new process, with them in charge all it would lead to would be the comment “Allah is great”.
The Quran, like the Bible, is stuck in one time. They were written by men at times when so much we know now wasn’t even imagined so it’s no wonder they contain little of use in understanding the physical or biological world. But it’s a real shame when people worship those books so strongly they reject the world of facts that show those books aren’t accurate.
Imagine if they ran your world, and how narrow that world would be.

@nnmns
You wrote: “They were written by men at times when so much we know now wasn’t even imagined so it’s no wonder they contain little of use in understanding the physical or biological world.”
The Quran is full of miracles It gives information about the world and the unvierse, science, future technological advances and future events that had not took place at that time.
The Quran was sent 1400 years ago. At that time, science was not that advaced as it is today. Past 20-30 years is full of scientific advances which all prove that The Quran is God’s word.
In Ḯāriyāt verse, it says: “47.With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.” meaning the universe is created with great power and it is getting bigger, which is scientifically proven is it not?
I can give a book full of examples. The Quran is the word of God, the Creator of us all. And let me remind you, God created you and God also created Darwin.

@Miraclesdohappen
“The Quran is full of miracles It gives information about the world and the unvierse, science, future technological advances and future events that had not took place at that time.”
“I can give a book full of examples. The Quran is the word of God, the Creator of us all. And let me remind you, God created you and God also created Darwin.”
Please provide evidence. Oh thats right, you don’t have any.
@rauf genc
You’re not a molecular biologist. If you were I’d imagine you’d be able to spell your job title.
Only four posts, and already three of which are by ridiculous religious fanatics.

’47.With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.” meaning the universe is created with great power and it is getting bigger, which is scientifically proven is it not?’
Q. Where in “With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.” does it say [s]pace is getting bigger? And if it does say that, why didn’t y’all point that out back when it was thought the universe was shrinking?
A. It doesn’t say that in there and you are lying to make a point, the kind of thing creationists and ID’rs do all the time.
And let us all note that those above who were arguing against the truth of evolution largely did so on the basis that they couldn’t imagine life developing the way evolution implies. Well that in itself is not surprising; the amount of time available for chance events to happen and the number of places they could have been happening is indeed staggering beyond anyone’s imagination. It’s all that time and all that space and all those different conditions that make the unlikely seeming events in evolution likely. And feasible.
But what is blameworthy is that these people, whose only “expertise” is that they read a polemic book or two, take it upon themselves to say not “I don’t believe in evolution.” but “Evolution is false.” with the implication, I presume, that it should not be taught. If they prevent their children from learning it they’ve shut doors in their minds and jobs they might hold. If they prevent other people’s children from learning it they have committed a grievous wrong against those people and their children.
Oh, and don’t bother telling me the Quran is full of miracles unless you provide documentation of those miracles independent of Islam. And I don’t think you can do that; the Christians can’t and the Jews can’t and you can’t.

I don’t think the creationists of any religion will be happy until school curriculums are decided by public opinion rather than what the learned specialists of math, science, history, etc. have discovered. They have their token professionals dangling at the fringes of science with their unsupported theories & dubious disproofs, but the fact of the matter is that the extreme majority of specialists who have devoted their lives to the fields of biology, astronomy, and the other sciences agree that evolution is an even more viable explanation for the origin of species now than it was in Darwin’s day. The testimony of a hundred million high-school educated Christians who don’t find evolution as “convincing” as creationism is nothing compared to the word of just one real biologist, and there are many, many more of those gunning for evolution than for creationism/intelligent design.

I once got one of these in the mail. It’s pretty glossy, with plenty of colorful pictures. I found it a bit bizarre that I got it, being an Episcopal priest.

T it is impossible for math or science or history to define the creation of the world let alone the universe it is an impossibility. If it then be God inspired that would be the only way to get an explanation, science a best guess but never the less a guess when it comes to something so vast as to time and space.

POvidi sorry but there is actually no proof for Darwinian evolution, no species have even been seen evolve nor are there any duplications of species a ape is still just an ape and there are no ape like men outside of the opinions of racist. Fossils are just fossils and have never proved evolution as a matter of fact the time it takes to develop a fossil is in dispute. No thing has evolved since we have started recording history, things have become extinct because of our carelessness but no new species so far.

I suppose the discussion of evolution has been limited to questions about the random element of natural selection. Some people do not accept randomness as a concept, others do. I believe in coincidence and randomness, so evolution makes supreme sense to me. I do not believe in luck as a mystical, metaphysical, or divine force but as the product of probablity. I have seen evidence of randomness in the mutations of species, in fossils and genetic studies. It all makes sense.
But there is another component of this that seems to have escaped attention – astrophysics. You cannot accept I.D. or Creationism without rejecting the field of astrophysics. I believe in a unified creation, so I have to accept as viable (but not definitive) the work done in astronomy as much as I do biology.
What I know is this, through science we know a lot more than we did, but we also know we don’t know much, let alone everything.
One more thing I have learned is this, through my systematic theology professor; You cannot argue revelation, you can only accept it or not. So I suppose I believe that God is revealed through Evolution. If this is the case the question becomes what does evolution tell us about God, not merely about ourselves.

cknuck and many others are of the “The evidence is on the other side of the argument so I’ll insist I’m right over and over.” school of debate. In fact, cknuck, humans are evolving. Now you do realize, I hope, individuals don’t evolve but the population does when we have a little (or very rarely a somewhat) different child than we might otherwise have had, one which survives better in the world as it finds it and has more children who survive than the older model humans and that difference, over many generations, gets carried through a lot of the human race. That’s evolution in a nutshell. It’s not sudden; you don’t see a gorilla become a human or give birth to a human (and gorillas aren’t our grandparents anyway, they’re our cousins many, many times removed).

OK. Evolution is a theory. But there is a bit of evidence proving it:
Man has gotten taller over the centuries. Creationism is a 19th to 21st century phemomena. Yes, the Bible says so. Yes the Quran says so. The only proof is that one man said God told him everything and that one man spread the word of God. Forget about all the councils interpreting and re-writing the Bible. Forget about all the many self-serving interpretations of the Quran. It is still the word of man: corrupt, self-serving, and mis-leading. I believe in God but I do not believe in religion.

yes man has gotten a little taller and young girls have gotten a lot more bustier but that is easily explained by diet and the different habit changes. Still no evidence of evolution

also astrophysics is an impossible science to prove please try it

See, I told you it’s not just biology they are after. Now cosmology and they’ll try to invalidate geology, too. They have to; it also shows how false their Bible is.

You know, claiming we are the result of a god’s wishes speaks ill of such a god.
First of course we don’t play well with each other. We are bigoted, foul tempered and greedy.
Second, we are poorly “designed”. Our backs don’t work well, our immune systems attack us and our bodies attack us and our loved ones with cancers.
Any designer who did that poorly would be deservedly fired, yet these people want to worship it!

Our body lasts longer than any automobile, TV, airplane, train, boat, or other vehicle chronically used with the vast number of moving parts in it we’ve been able to design, the fall of mankind withstanding.

Charli You are wrong. tallness or darkness isnot an evolutionist activity. Evolution is changing from one to a more complex other one. Listen according to today’s scientific evidences a DNA’s genes cannot be added new genes or change the ques of it. What happen do you know. nothing!!! The sicence says that if an animals DNA changed controlling system destroy it. If it cannot solved CANCER is occur which you know, kill the living organism.Why? because system never accept changes when its controlled by controling agents which are created inside its body by Someone with the existing animal’s ancestors DNA.
Look Down sendrom boys and girls never has a child. WHy? because the system closes their productivity in themselves. Please be careful system is close control, each cell’s DNA controlled by hundred agents one by one ( tru que of genes, wrong connections, etc by controlled by different agents). If one is not catched it is impossible not to be seen by others.
this showing that evolution in an organism ( not a complex animals or human, but in a simple organism)is not possible to occur.

“The fall of mankind”? I take it you are not referring to “The Descent of Man”. That brings up another issue then. “God”, being all knowing and all powerful, knew (based on the common version of the Christian creation myth) how Adam and Eve would screw up in the Garden of Eden; it was all effectively pre-ordained. Yet “It” acted disappointed. There’s yet another example of bad design, too much curiosity. Of course that’s all silly but a lot of people believe it.
Anyway, on average our bodies don’t last all that long. And before modern medicine and such they lasted a lot shorter times. And if we only functioned on streets and highways our lifetimes would be measured in days or weeks.
No, we are very badly “designed” but perfectly reasonable as the result of an evolutionary process. Let’s face it, to say a god couldn’t design something better than us is to spit in that god’s face.

nnmns,
Your post at February 12, 2009 5:46 PM was probably one of the best arguments I’ve seen against “intelligent design”. Although creationists would probably point to their holy book of choice and say it’s all mankind’s punishment for something.
Darwin haters are yet another thing that makes me feel sad for humanity. It seems like every tragedy for the past two hundred years (from the Holocaust to Columbine) has been laid at his feet. He wrote a BOOK, folks! That’s all he did. I’m a little surprised we’re 28 comments in without someone blaming the poor guy for the economy yet.

Mordred, the article’s argument is Darwinism or evolution so it is natural to comment on his view point and his statement about lower races and his statements about superior races. He did write a book but people have taken it and made it a religion so there will be controversy.

nnmns babies cannot survive in any world so your point only goes to prove the creator is a merciful creator. A human baby could never survive anywhere at any time by itself.

Mordred, thanks! Feel free to borrow it.

Anyone ever figure out where all the rest of the humans came from when God apparently only made Adam and Eve and Adam and Eve made a couple of boys, and one killed the other …so where did all the rest of the people come from? And what’s with God giving Adam and Eve 2 boys? How were they supposed to procreate? Also if A & E had been blessed with 1 male and 1 female, were they supposed to engage in incest to populate the world??
And we’re supposed to believe in the words of the Bible???????
I’ll stick with evolution. I don’t mind having few chimps in my past.

Yes. Anyone who can’t bear to have chimp-like critters in their family tree has a self image problem anyway.

“Mordred, the article’s argument is Darwinism or evolution so it is natural to comment on his view point and his statement about lower races and his statements about superior races.”
You know, I have yet to hear one of these statements in which he spoke of “lower” races. I haven’t read much of his writing, but what I have read seems to suggest he was a supporter of abolition, a strange position for a racist to take.
“He did write a book but people have taken it and made it a religion so there will be controversy.”
A religion of what? What do us “Darwinists” worship? A guy who died and stayed dead? The idea that things change over time? Evidence?

cknuck
“POvidi sorry but there is actually no proof for Darwinian evolution, no species have even been seen evolve”
Well, except for the apple maggot fly, which split off from the hawthorn fly, as did the parasitic wasps that lay their eggs in the fly’s larvae.

Oops, the URL was supposed to be at the end of the post. It’s a link to the Science Today blog post, “Chain reaction of biodiversity triggered by one species,” from Feb. 6, 2009. The paper cited is in the Feb. 9 issue of Science.
Sorry!

Annis Sorry that is not eveidence of evolution any more that the Pooton, Enga-Apso or Schnoodle

cknuck for you nothing would be evidence of evolution since you’ve decided it doesn’t happen and therefore nothing can be evidence for ti.

It’s interesting that anti-evolution folks always use the “we’ve-never-seen-evolution-taking-place” argument. In reality, things like wolves becoming Schnoodles are about as dramatic a change as evolution predicts we’ll see in the limited time span of recorded history, so we actually do see evolution occur (winged Schnoodles aren’t due for a few million years).
One thing we have never, EVER seen in even a limited context, though, is God poofing a creature into existence out of nowhere. We’ve never even seen him magically change the DNA of an animal in a way that would be inconsistent with natural reproduction.

breeding is not evolution people

Setback for the Muslim image:
Muslim leader in Buffalo loses his mind, wife loses her head

cknuck “breeding is not evolution people”.
Then what is it? How do you account for the strong surviving and the weak not? How do you account for females mating only with the strong males (knowing which is which because the weak males of a species either die or are run out of the herd etc.) if not through a form of natural selection? Evolution involves the strong continuing the species (human and animal) and the weak not adapting and falling away or dying out. Of course now we have meds and other ways to keep the weak alive. Weak women used to die in childbirth and sometimes the babies died also, but if they were strong enough, they survived. Some women had a lot of children…the strong women. Weaker women died. The strong people survived the plagues that used to run through towns and countries. When they had kids, the immunity they had would be in their children. I really don’t understand why it is so hard to belive in evolution.

pagan, I appreciate your argument but I don’t see one thing in your presentation that points to evolution. We still have strong and weak sick and strong and death. Where is the evolution? The shallowness of the human species has nothing to do with evolution we’re still shallow and still pick mates for shallow reasons as well as protection and attraction. Looks, wealth, things, where is evolution in that?

If a trait that is carried from one species to another, is no longer required, then it eventually stops…adaption to surroundings for example. Skin color changed as ancient humans left what is now Africa and moved north. Skin started getting lighter in the colder less sunny areas. Thus blonds and shades in between due to where they lived.
Why didn’t everyone die in the plagues? Because there was something in their makeup that prevented it. When they had children that trait could be passed on. Immunity built up and was passed to another generation. Those without it, died. When we crawled out of the ocean, we no longer needed fins or needed to breath in the water. We had to learn to breath differently. We eventually grew legs, arms instead of fins and tails. That is evolution. If we no longer needed our eyes (no likely) then over generations our eyes would no longer work.
I’m no expert (obviously) but that is what I mean by evolution. People, animals, insects, trees, all living things adapting to what is needed in their environment. If the adaption doesn’t take place, then death of the species dies.

OOPS! Just reread my last sentence…last word shouldn’t be there. Brain and hands not functioning together! Sorry to for re-writing the plague thing I mentioned in my previous paragraph.

pagan I would love for you to prove to me that we crawled out of the ocean in the first place, only I know you simply cannot, and the only skin recorded “getting lighter” is Michael Jackson and we know that was not evolution.

What is your explanation of the skin getting lighter after humans migrated to parts colder with less sunlight yearly? Also the adaptation of nose shapes etc.? People evolved to adapt to the area they lived in…over centuries, of course. All of us started on the continent of Africa. We’ll all related.
As to Michael…he’s just scary! )

True, ck, I can’t “prove” we crawled out of the slime…but there is plenty of salt in our blood. We have a connection to the sea. Human embryos look a lot like early embryos of other non-human embryos. Life is said by some to have started as microorganisms….bacteria, protozoans, alge. Whatever happened after that…humans came much later after evolving from our furry ancestors…more complicated than I can even start to totally understand. IMO, however, no god like creature just put us here.

pagan if evolution is more complicated than you could even start to understand how could you begain to say “no God.”

When the right conditions happened, life happened…starting with those little things that one can’t see except with a microscope. Over the many, many eons those little particles of life evolved into forms we can recognize. I believe in the scientific theories and explanations. No one has a perfect answer..for certain not me. Highly intelligent women and men are still working on it, but I can’t go with invisible being in some unseen realm (heaven?)having orchestrated “life” on this little round ball of humanity. For those that think as you do, a God did this work, fine. It gives you an answer. For me? I don’t really need one. I’d just as soon give credit to something I can see. No problem for me with a few furry creatures (as I said above) being my ancestors. No problem with being related to the first person being found in Africa. It’s what is is. However after having said all that….I don’t think religious theories should be taught in public classrooms. Leave that where it belongs…to the religious education folks. There is a big difference in religious theory and scientific theory. Scientific theory can be based on observation….religious theory…faith?

The problem for me pagan is that those conditions you refer to as to only being seen under a microscope, well my problem is that no one has seen them to any definitive result. I would believe if someone had but they haven’t. I agree I don’t mind being related to the first person found in Africa either; oh wait I am. no furry creatures in my family tree.

Scientists have seen life under microscopes…

pagan we all have seen life under a microscope but what that life does is not proof of evolution, it’s just what cells do and have been doing since the beginnig.

cknuck: “It’s just what cells do and have been doing since the beginning.”
EXACTLY….cells have been changing and EVOLVING since the beginning. Those same cells doing “what cells do” are the basis of life in whatever plant, animal, human they were part of. Genes anyone? DNA? Adapting to their environment, getting rid, through the generations, of weak, non-adaptable versions, and passing on the strong cells to the next generations. Evolution..not hard to understand.

No where in my statement did I say evolving there is no proof

Then what “do cells do”, cknuck, if they don’t change/evolve? Sit there and do nothing? No proof? Not in your eyes.