Good for them! This is a very encouraging sign.

I can understand them not wanting to follow the Popes dictation, but why leave being Christian? A lot of these people have bought these parchments just to look at them and show them around, as well as some actually de-baptizing themselves. Four dollars each is a souvenir.

This is just as dumb as claiming you can become a virgin again.

This is a great idea, especially if documentation could mean that churches could no longer count children baptised as members once they grow up and find out they really don’t believe it anyway. I’m sure I’m still on the rolls somewhere.
How many people are counted as being part of a religion has a great impact on politics, does it not? I guess that’s why the quiverfull people do what they do; pop em out, get em baptised and you’ve done your duty.
I once nannied for a Catholic with 5 children. When I asked her if she wanted to attend church with me on Sunday she said, “I gave God 5 children; I’ve don’t my duty”.
Let’s be accurate about numbers. I’ll bet less than one out of every 10 Christians doesn’t actually believe in many of Christianity’s historical teachings. That’s not to say that those who do should not be respected; I just think we should get the numbers right.
People leave being Christian because they don’t believe the tenets of it.

“…why leave being Christian?”
It makes it easier to engage in questionable behavior when you don’t have someone hinting that it may be wrong.

OK, that’s just totally cool, IMO! Makes their lack of need for an organization/religion that they no longer feel a need for, humorously “official”.

Confessoressa,
As to “getting the numbers right”, the government looks to census forms and looks to see what box you checked. They don’t ask each church etc. for their records. So appearing on the old rolls of a church record doesn’t mean much that way.
As for that Catholic you worked for, if she was refusing to go to Mass, then she was NOT doing her duty as a Catholic. We’re required to go every Sunday. You can refer her to the Cathechism on that point.
On the other hand, she might just have been turning down the invitation to your church in particular, which would be understandable. When someone invites you, it’s hard to know whether you’ll end up at a solid, mainline Protestant denomination where the basic theology is the same, or whether you’ll end up someplace like a Unitarian church which is a free-for-all.

I wonder if I can have myself “de-Beliefnet-ed”.
Worth a shot, I think.

“It makes it easier to engage in questionable behavior when you don’t have someone hinting that it may be wrong.”
Pretty snide there Bob. And that hinting doesn’t seem to have made any difference to the hoards of Christians in our jails, not to mention the wealthier ones who should be but aren’t.

Bob, a lot gets accomplished in those Unitarian “free for alls”! But guess what? Called tolerance for others beliefs…and opinions under the same church roof…with no threat of Hell or damnation. There are many, many areas of agreement under those roofs, however. Personal experience has proven that to me many times.

But it is so much more fun to engage in questionable behavior when you know that the folks questioning it can’t do a thing about it.

Do you mean “questionable” or “illegal”? Law enforcement can do a lot about illegal behavior and sometimes they do.

O great, gum up a perfectly good dis-belief — WITH PAPERWORK!! To whom would you show this document. Is it a printed excuse for not going to church when company is in town? It seems sort of like those backseat drivers licenses. Cute, amusing, and ….

j, nothing is real if it’s not in triplicate.

Bob,
I wasn’t talking about the government census but rather the individual church claims as to membership; they don’t base that on the census.
I’m quite aware of what is required by the Catholic Church and the catechism, being the daughter of a man who spent his 20′s in a monastery and a mother who spent her 20′s in a convent, and having a brother who is a Catholic theologian, and attending Catholic school from preschool through college. My point was that most Catholics do not agree with the basic tenets of the church and it would be nice to have that represented in the numbers. Perhaps then the media would stop paying so much attention to the Pope.
Forgive me, but it doesn’t appear that you are paying much attention to the news articles or the comments you are commenting on.

There are different categories of hate this one fits the category of “dumb hate” its surprising to the numbers of followers something like this can generate.

‘this one fits the category of “dumb hate”‘
What’s that, and who or what’s being hated, cknuck?

Umm.. buying a certificate, and filling in the blanks to denote, in a rather pseudo-official way that they are no longer Christians is a form of ‘hate’?
I would guess that, then, any time anyone joins a group and notes that they are no longer member of alternative ones are expressing hate as well?
Seems that ‘hate’ is an emotion that’s gone through a serious downgrade.

Bob: “It makes it easier to engage in questionable behavior when you don’t have someone hinting that it may be wrong.”
Absolutely true. I must have robbed a dozen banks after I stopped caring whether some all-powerful being was going to torment me forever because I wasn’t 100% sure of his existence.
Wait a minute. I didn’t rob banks. I just slept in on Sunday. Real questionable behavior there.

It is a direct attack aimed at Christians, a specific religion not religion in general, we believe in baptism so yes it is a hateful organized religious effort, they stopped short of requiring the signature to be in blood.
They are proselytizing their beliefs, Jehovah Witnesses don’t require a signature.
The good new is that it it has no effect on salvation, anyone who would sign such a document obviously has no relationship with Christ.

cknuck, it’s not aimed at all Christians, not even all that many Christians and certainly not enough Christians, just those Christians who no longer consider themselves Christian. Since you patently do consider yourself Christian I don’t see why it’s got you all upset. Bad day proselytizing?

“……hateful organized religious effort? cknuck, I really don’t think there is any hatred involved. I’m not a Christian, and I don’t carry hate around for those that are. My whole immediate family are Christians…(except my kids, and daughter in law and husband). It’s just a group offering a “service” if you will. People have Baptism certificates…why not de-baptism certificates? If a person is no longer Christian, then it makes no difference if they still have or don’t have their certificate saying that at one point in their lives (probably when they were infants) they were baptised…I was, and since I was an infant, I had no say in the matter.
Oh, that signature in blood? That’s probably another whole process, a special de-baptism certificate for those willing to shed blood for it. ) And yes, it just makes since to say that perhaps a person who signs that certificate has no relationship with Christ, however that isn’t necessarily true. It just may not be the same relationship that you have or someone else has.

I consider my relationship to Christ to be the same as my relationship to the Easter Bunny and just a bit short of my relationship to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Happily I never had a relationship with any of them formalized so I don’t have any need to de-formalize one.
Peace.

nnmns I don’t usually have time to proselytize, I don’t solicit folk with billboards or bus adds, I do serve people daily however so no I don’t have bad days proselytizing I’m sure much to your chagrin. So to me the fact that this group’s purpose for being organize is to entice people to sign certificates of de-baptizing is a confrontation with Christians.
By the way the whole “flying spaghetti monster thing, I know it comes from one of your hero’s but it’s pretty old and weak.
pagan I know you are not a Christian but you insist on speaking for them and all of the personal references makes you an expert but there may be something you have missed. I’ll just leave it like that, lol.

Believe me when I tell you…I’m missing nothing, cknuck. Had 17 years of experience…that was enough. I saw the “light’ after that.
Never claimed or claim now to be an “expert” any more than you are.

“It is a direct attack aimed at Christians, a specific religion not religion in general, we believe in baptism so yes it is a hateful organized religious effort, they stopped short of requiring the signature to be in blood.”
Wait a minute. My understanding is that nobody’s “required” to sign anything, so maybe you should take it down a notch or two. And I love how you call it a direct attack towards your faith. That’s because it reminds me of the fundamentalist Muslims who call leaving their religion an attack and respond to said “attack” with threats of (and sometimes actual) violence. Signing a piece of paper that says they don’t want to be in your club anymore does not mean atheists hate you or your religion. It just means they don’t want to be a part of it, and in Western civilization, that’s their right.

Mordred you bring an important point let’s see these faithful atheists put up adds for Muslims to turn away from their faith. I don’t think they are as courageous as they are committed to Christians so it’s not so much true atheism as it is opportunist.

cknuck: “Mordred you bring an important point”
Which you ignored to play the good old “at least we’re not the Muslims” card.

I think there are enough people lost, lonely, and/or afraid in the world that we do not need to rob from each other’s membership in churches, denominations, or religions. Evangelism was not intended to be a competitive sport. There is enough to do so that I don;t feel a need to make someone else feel miserable because of what I believe.

Mordred are we on the same planet I did not play any card but that the organization is too afraid to take on Muslims in the same way as they assaulted Christians with billboard or bus ads, pointing out it is aimed at Christians alone, please try to keep up and pay attention before you accuse.

cknuck, give me a break. Christians are no more “assaulted” by “God doesn’t exist” billboards than I am by “Marriage = Man + Woman” bumper stickers. Are they annoying as all get out? You bet, because I know I’d catch hell if I expressed the opposite opinion in public. But I don’t claim I’m being “assaulted” by them; I reserve my anger for more serious matters, like the government-approved discrimination said bumper stickers support.

“There is enough to do so that I don;t feel a need to make someone else feel miserable because of what I believe.”
The world, and Christianity would be immensely better off if all the preachers took that view.

Mordred even though you might think you have the right to speak for Christians you are not correct in your thinking. But you did do a good job in dodging my comment about this group not having the courage to take on Muslims or Jews but just seeking to target Christians.

Maybe the group will target the Muslims and Jews next,cknuck…in another ad campaign.

I think asking them to target Muslims while they live in a Muslim country under Sharia is doubly unrealistic because of the penalties for all involved. I don’t know what the situation is for Jews in Israel but I presume it’s not nearly as threatening. But cknuck do you really expect them to jump around the globe putting their signs here and there? Maybe they eventually will but they have to start someplace. Wait ten years and if their signs are in lots of Christian cities but no Jewish, etc. cities then you’ll have a leg to stand on.

cknuck: “But you did do a good job in dodging my comment about this group not having the courage to take on Muslims or Jews”
I didn’t see a need to respond. The notion that atheists don’t criticize Muslims is laughable. Besides, this campaign is about baptisms. Do Muslims even have baptisms? I don’t know, I’ll admit it. Do you know?
And as for taking on the Jews, who really has the courage to criticize them in public these days except for the fundamentalist Muslims? And they don’t exactly strike me as being good at rational debate.

nnmns quote “Wait ten years and if their signs are in lots of Christian cities but no Jewish, etc. cities then you’ll have a leg to stand on.”
You do realize how that statement sounds? Or do you?