Two things:
1. She should have read the handbook before she started the program. This is much like the case of the student denied a degree from Brigham Young because he broke the honor code.
2. Maybe she shouldn’t go into counseling, or maybe she should get a degree from some religious school that recognizes her bias, and she should plan to only work in some such religious context. She should not go to work where she’ll need to counsel homosexuals and they will have reasonable reason to expect objective counseling.

The EMU’s handbook for the students counseling program mandates that the students follow the American Counseling Association standards that require Counselors to not engage in discrimination, on among other things, sexual discrimination.
This student must have read her handbook, and if not, ignorance is no exucuse for the law.

For those who know nothing about counseling this may seem open and shut especially if they have an agenda.
Looking at this situation from a counselor’s standpoint referral is the proper thing to do. This counselor had this client’s best interest at heart. There are a multitude of counselors who would have rather do harm and try to do cases that they have ethical issues with, this person did the right thing that’s why her supervisor advised her in that direction. We all have stuff it’s just this person admitted it to the best interest of her client.

ck,
The so-called “agenda”, as nnms pointed out, is “to expect objective counseling”. The best interest of the client would be to receive objective counseling.
The woman could not do that, ergo, she could not do the job expected of her.
I hope the door didn’t hit her fanny on her way out.

Could someone on the ‘right’ please do us the courtesy of publishing the complete list of goods, services and public accommodations that good, decent Christian folk should be able to deny to those dirty f@gz? It would be nice to know in advance of even trying to do business with each other.
Then they could explain why the same list shouldn’t apply to those d@mned divorced (or divorced/remarried) “people”. Or to known, admitted adulterers. Or to thieves. Or to liars. Or to coveters. (They’z all seeyunnerz, don’t ferget.)
Then, they could explain why this “freedom” of association should only apply to betterosexuals.
Oh, wait a minute, no, they couldn’t explain it. Certainly they haven’t so far. They’ve done a particularly bad job of ‘reasoning’ away their prejudices.

Husband: “Then they could explain why the same list shouldn’t apply to those d@mned divorced (or divorced/remarried) “people”. Or to known, admitted adulterers. Or to thieves. Or to liars. Or to coveters.”
Well, those people are different, see? They know they’re vile sinners and will (sometimes) admit that they need to be “saved” by the big guy upstairs. LGBT folks (except for the conflicted, confused, or self-loathing ones) won’t admit that. So we have to lecture them (like children) and pass legislation against them (like criminals) until they see the error of their diseased, AIDS spreading, hurricane causing, civilization destroying ways.
Speaking of AIDS, I just found out recently that openly gay people aren’t allowed to give blood. Why? Because they’re gay and probably have AIDS, don’t you know? D*mn…you guys really don’t want us seen doing anything that makes us look good, do you? No military service, no blood donations…if I open a door for someone, will I get arrested?

Husband counselors often refer clients because of transference and counter transference to make sure a client gets “objective counseling”. Your hostility is misdirected. Some counselors will take such a case and not do the client justice because they are afraid they would get in trouble if they were honest. There are a lot of lousy counselors that would fake it for appearance sake and to be pc but they will not bring their best to the table. Honesty is rare and should be rewarded and not punished, punishment will create less than healthy situations. Would you not want the best counselor for your situation, or one that is just following the letter of the law with no concern for you?

“The lawsuit says that Ward is “a Christian who derives her beliefs and moral values from the Bible.””
Well, I am a Christian who derives his beliefs and moral values from the Bible. And, my Bible tells me to love my neighbor as I would want to be loved. To judge not…lest I be judged. And, that discrimination, prejudice, and bigotry is wrong.
As has been said…if her views prevent her form fulfilling the responsibilities of her masters program and/or job…then, perhaps she should consider another career for which she might be better suited. I suspect that Moody Bible College or Wheaton College would love to have her.
Peace!

One doesn’t need to be on the “right” to know that you both are distorting and agendizing the content of the article to make it about gays not being served at lunch counters, when the case is plainly about a counselor being unable “to affirm or validate that behavior or otherwise use her counseling skills and abilities to facilitate homosexual behavior, without violating her sincere religious beliefs.”
Husband: you raise a very important point, though. Usually in covering headlines in alleged events of anti-homosexual discrimination we learn very little about what the alleged perpetrator believes about sin in general. Here it would have been very useful, for example, to know if she had deferred patients for other reasons, such as being in a extramarital relationship.
No “goods, services and public accommodations” were denied here. All we can tell from the account is that everyone acted with professionalism. This is a cut and dry case of religious discrimination, presuming she actually was dismissed for the patient deferral.

JohnQ: Aside from the point that counseling is professional and not personal, you aren’t being consistent. If you believe that something is immoral, sinful, offensive to God, etc (compulsive gossiping, for the sake of argument) you would not believe it was loving to encourage, aid, abet, facilitate, affirm, validate that behavior. You would think it was decidedly UNLOVING to do so.

Wonder what excuse she gave the client when she referred them to another counselor? “sorry, don’t do homosexuals.”
Does she think that she would never have a homosexual client needing her advise during her career?

“EMU’s handbook for students in the counseling program mandates that they adhere to American Counseling Association standards, which require counselors to not engage in discrimination based on, among other things, sexual orientation.”
Unless her “sincere religious beliefs” include not reading student handbooks, there’s really no excuse for her not knowing she’d be expected to treat gay and straight patients the same. Well, except for ignorance of the rules, which is no excuse.
Tyler: “you both are distorting and agendizing the content of the article to make it about gays not being served at lunch counters”
Alright, maybe it is off the subject, but I would really like to know: is there anything I as a tax-paying American citizen can’t be denied simply because of my sexual orientation? I think it’s time you guys let us know exactly where we stand as citizens in this country.

Why can someone not simultaneously deny the validity of a same sex relationship and not be bigoted or discriminatory as well? Can anyone on the ‘left’ please explain to those of us who are so feeble-minded and trapped in the Dark Ages?
PS Why would anyone determined to stay in a same sex relationship want counseling from a therapist who is so bigoted and discriminatory? Isn’t it a courtesy to disclose such ‘prejudice’ that the patient may receive therapy from someone else not prone to a hidden agenda? Being an expert in behavioral therapy one could reek havoc on a patient by telling them untruths and watching them reck their lives even further if he/she were so inclined.
Oh no, oh nooooo! You must do your best to reck the career of the therapist who is honest and forthright and willing to refer you elsewhere. As if this will heal any rift whatsoever with those on the other side of the issue.

Tyler-
“JohnQ: Aside from the point that counseling is professional and not personal, you aren’t being consistent. If you believe that something is immoral, sinful, offensive to God, etc (compulsive gossiping, for the sake of argument) you would not believe it was loving to encourage, aid, abet, facilitate, affirm, validate that behavior. You would think it was decidedly UNLOVING to do so.”
I am going to suggest to you that you do not think me consistent because you are attempting to equate apples and oranges. Sexual orientation does not equate with compulsive gossiping etc.
Sexual orientation is benign….in and of itself it causes no harm. Compulsive gossiping, etc does in fact cause harm. Further, correct me if I am wrong, but the American Counseling Association standards do not protect compulsive gossiping, etc.
It appears to me that you are attempting to create God in your image. It is my belief that a human is not powerful enough to offend God.
I may not agree with her religious beliefs. However, I absolutely believe she has a right to believe anything she wants. That does not mean she has a right to discriminate against gays, etc. That is why I suggested she should check into masters programs at fundamental religious colleges/universities.
Peace!

Tom, I do not think EMU said she could not be a counselor/therapist…they have said she violate the terms of her masters program.
Big difference.
I am not sure what left and right have to do with this.
That said, maybe it is possible to simultaneously deny the validity of a same sex relationship and not be bigoted or discriminatory as well. And, as soon as someone….anyone provides me a logical/reasonable (non-religious) reason for denying the validity of same gender relationships that is not bigoted or discriminatory, I will support your premise.
Allow me to point out that:
-not feeling comfortable with the thought of two guys together
-relationships/marriage are about children
-my church says so
-the plumbing does not fit together
-etc
do not meet the logical/reasonable requirement.
Peace!

“Why can someone not simultaneously deny the validity of a same sex relationship and not be bigoted or discriminatory as well? Can anyone on the ‘left’ please explain to those of us who are so feeble-minded and trapped in the Dark Ages?”
Tom, why can’t we be wrong about being attracted to the same sex without being branded as evil unrepentant sinners? And don’t bother telling me that you don’t think we’re evil because of who we love. Not after you people have called us fascists and told us that we have an “agenda” against you and that we want to lock up everyone who doesn’t agree with us, despite us insisting time and again that we have no plans of doing anything like that. (If we did, the Westboro cult would have been gone a long time ago.) How are we supposed to respond to these attacks except to assume that you do, in fact, have something against us?
“Why would anyone determined to stay in a same sex relationship want counseling from a therapist who is so bigoted and discriminatory?”
Maybe the patient didn’t realize that their therapist held such “sincere religious beliefs” such as that they were on the same level as a pedophile.
And I don’t appreciate the implication that those therapists who don’t “deny the validity of a same sex relationship” are out to reek havoc on their patients.

“Objective counselling” ranks up there with “military intelligence.” When a person walks in to see a counsellor they want to know they are listened to and treated with compassion, not just a few points out of a book. Anyone who has been to a counsellor can tell the difference, especially a bad one. Sexual identity can be very complicated to work through and by referring this client the grad student did the best thing she could for them.
I’m sure they’re alot of counsellors who refer patients for personal reasons, as long as they are ensuring proper care that’s the best we can hope for.

JohnQ quote, “Well, I am a Christian who derives his beliefs and moral values from the Bible. And, my Bible tells me to love my neighbor as I would want to be loved. To judge not…lest I be judged. And, that discrimination, prejudice, and bigotry is wrong.”
Outside of taking scripture out of context JohnQ this is like making the statement “I never Lie.” The bible also says “judge with righteous judgment”. Everyone judges everyone has a prejudice or two, if you knew anything about counseling at all you would applaud this student and defend the freedom she expressed. The prime directive in counseling is “do no harm” this student followed that directive and referred her client. It’s simple unless you allow your “discrimination, prejudice and bigotry” enter in and then you might say something like; “…then, perhaps she should consider another career for which she might be better suited. I suspect that Moody Bible College or Wheaton College would love to have her.”
I counsel several homosexuals and I have had great success counseling I still have relationships with those I have counseled including the homosexuals. I fortunately do not have to counsel about homosexuality but everyone knows my position on the subject I think the activity is sinful and unproductive. That has nothing to do with my area of counseling and if it did it would not change how I care for people. But if I had a counselor under me express a reservation about counseling anyone for any reason I would simply refer the client and thank the counselor for their honesty. I have referred and the best counselors I know have also.

I usually side with the view that says, if you can’t serve everybody who might come to you for services, then you’re in the wrong business. But her dismissal seems wrong to me, especially when she followed protocol and referred them to another counselor who would better help them.
To make it absolutely clear, I do not believe homosexuality is a sin or is abnormal. I’m an ally of LGBTI, and I support equal treatment in every conceivable category of life. I also do not believe in the notion that religious people are automatically anti-gay, nor being pro-gay is being a bad Christian. I am a Christian.
But like it or not, not everyone who is a counselor is going to believe that, and it would be wrong to force that person to counsel another on the subject, and it would potentially be harmful advice to the one receiving the advice on their relationship.

You may be right YN but I see pharmacists who’ve taken their schooling knowing they would not be able to fully do their jobs (dispense birth control) and then try to use the law to deny service to people in need, and I’ve seen chaplains in the military who claim they can’t do their jobs (meet the needs of the service men and women) but rather can only preach their particular lines.
So when I see a counselor in training who knows she won’t be able to fully do her job it looks to me like more of the same and I really think she should be directed to a better position for her sooner rather than later.

So much of everyones opinions seem to think this graduate student going for her Masters to become a licensed Counselor is already a Counselor. She was given a client to counsel as part of her practicum to become one. Her handbook told her that she had to adhere to the American Counseling Association standards, she didn’t. Someone over her said she could refer anyone to someone else who didn’t believe as she does, as far as LGBT problems. That person didn’t follow the handbook either. Both people are to blame for this Universities lawsuit, IMO. They should both go out the door, or else be given another chance to learn how to read with comprehension properly.

I put my name and strange things were happening with the posting again, so above is my post. If every handbook of the American Counseling Association states that homosexual matters have to be respected, than the next best thing they could start doing is that when a student enters this profession they have an entry class explaining the scientifically accepted opinions medically, and psychologically, so the people will understand what counseling is all about. If at that point they insist on following the Bible instead of the rules and regulations of the Association then they can just pick up their books and leave, and they are only out one class. They could start this Entry class for Pharmacists, and every other medical, and paramedical classes that help society stay and get well.

Tom, you asked why someone in a same gender relationship would want help? Because like all couples, they might need counseling just like heterosexual couples might at one time or another. Heterosexual couples seek help, why wouldn’t homosexual couples? Human beings are human beings, no matter what their sexual orientation. Counselors should be able to help everyone who comes to them…not judge them…at least I think so.

pagan quote, “Counselors should be able to help everyone who comes to them…not judge them…at least I think so.”
This is a common misconception among many outside of the profession but the truth is it is according to what area the counselor has been trained in and also ethically if there some possibility of transference or counter transference the the counselor should refer. No counselor is superhuman or pure as the driven snow many just forge ahead and don’t admit that there might be a possibility of poor service because of some history. This student did first consult with her supervisor and then under the advise of the supervisor refer, textbook counseling.
Another scenario would be a rape victim counseling a rapist, or as simple as a client looking like an abusive father, or even more so a client that looks like a offspring. there are many reasons to refer and all of them are wise decisions and a part of counseling.

If people create a climate of fear then yes poor service will be given just because counselors are afraid of offending a homosexual and having punitive measures taken against. The truth will be hidden but still have a negative affect quality of care, rather than be emotional be wise.

cknuck…
“EMU’s handbook for students in the counseling program mandates that they adhere to American Counseling Association standards, which require counselors to not engage in discrimination based on, among other things, sexual orientation.”
If someone doesn’t like the rules, maybe they should focus on changing them. But I guess that’s too complicated for the religious right. It’s so much easier to whine and cry about how those sneaky f*****s have an agenda against you.
“Another scenario would be a rape victim counseling a rapist…”
Real subtle, cknuck.

Mordred If people threw around insults like you then I might not consider that professional but this person did follow mandates to the letter by referring the client even after consulting with her supervisor. Very professional work, discriminating would be denying services this was not the case. I know the handbook I am in the business, and try to clean up that potty mouth.

cknuck: “Very professional work, discriminating would be denying services this was not the case. I know the handbook I am in the business”
The University seemed to think it was discrimination. Do you know their rules better than they do?

Sounds like different interpretations. Mabey the school should unify their stance.

I believe the university’s interpretation of the hand book will force them to produce fearful counselors who will in turn go outside of their personal areas of expertise to attempt clients they should refer and here’s where it gets tricky.
If a counselor has no cultural expertise in the culture of his client yet because he is fearful of punitive actions he forges on without the knowledge of what probing questions to ask or when to use open ended questioning or transfers his bias unwittingly then the client comes away with less than the quality of service he could have received if the counselor would have referred the case to a counselor with that particular cultural knowledge.

my post above

This is from a cranky senior who now lives in seattle.Girl..may I ask you a question…just who is telling you to hate this much? Why is everyone concerned how a person runs their life? Isnt it enough that the Bush adminstration left us this mess and we may never recover? I am 61 and hearing impaired and because of Bush and his cronies..we all may to go back to work…How can I? There are no jobs in seattle right now.What can I do? Would you hire me? Leave the gay people alone! They are my neighbors and bother nobody!

In the year 2009 anyone in any part of the Medical world should have been trained to understand the people they profess to counsel, and the LGBT are as important as the “poor little put upon religious would-be counselor” sueing the U. So all curriculum for students should have LGBT training added to what they are expected to know about the public they want to counsel, and make their living on. And this applies to all medical professions, and paramedical, as well. When this happens all sueing will stop!

H22 that is ridiculous to expect that every counselor would be adapted to all cultures in counseling. I know there are some intricacies that a counselor might miss when counseling a Spanish client that could result in giving less than desired counseling that another counselor might not overlook.
I am African American but sometimes peer counselors say things I know would offend me greatly, but it might put other African Americans at ease. Counseling is so intricate, personal and complicated that if one of my counselors came to me and reported to me that there was a possibility that they felt they might not be the right counselor for a certain client I would refer the client to another counselor. The trouble is if counselor did not feel they could refer and be safe then there would be some going through the motions really shoddy work done and legally they would be protected because when they should have referred they choose to follow the law and not their moral standard, because the latter was no longer an option. Like I said no one is perfect not even counselors so we must leave room for important decisions like this to be made clinically and legally and not have one overrule the other. It’s not hate what this person did it was more compassion than anything she referred to the better counselor in this case.

cknuck-
I will leave “righteous judgment” up to the Almighty.
My suggestion of Moody and Wheaton was intended as a gracious comment. They both (at least used to) offer religious based counseling. If she can not support the American Counseling Association standards for religious reasons….then, I am recommending she might be better suited counseling from a religious base rather than a secular base.
Peace!

But I contend that she has supported the standards becasue there are not just built in for homosexuals but all cultures, including sexual orientation.