The title of this story says it all – BHO will use “religion’ when it is to his advantage.
Unfortunately, he does not attend to religion when it will help the country.
At least not the religion that would help the country.
The audacity of liberal hypocrisy.

The abortion issue will get tough but that’s no reason not to get everyone health care, a moral obligation it seems to me. In most advanced nations it’s a given. If our industries didn’t have to deal with health care for their employees and retirees they could compete better. And people are better workers and better entrepreneurs when they don’t have to worry about health care for themselves and their families.
And this whole thing about “death panels”; what a crock. Health care is rationed now by private companies we have no influence over. It will always be rationed no matter what the system. But people would not stand for anything like Palin and so many supposedly rational Republicans talk about. That’s just plain lies. More Republican lies.

It’s strange when someone would imply health care for everyone would not help the country. A decently done bill will cover everyone and do it more efficiently (cheaply) than now. And the people opposing reform were among those pointing out there will be problems some years ahead without reform.

The great Soviet experiment is OVER.
BHO cannot, and will not, resurrect it.
There is a little despot in South America trying, however. BHO should go live there. I suspect he will (not soon enough) be leaving the country in disgrace anyway.
The audacity of socialism.

We’re talking about real people here who can’t get health care. Not old conservatives’ tales.

Killing babies in incompatable with Christianity, period. When Comrade Obama says public funds would not be used for abortions, he lies.

If there is a “moral obligation” to provide everyone with health care insurance, then that obligation rests on the health care providers, not on the American taxpayer. I am not convinced that Mr. Obama’s so-called reform will actually work. It seems it will be terribly expensive, inefficient, and could lead to rationing of health care down the road, which is what the reform is supposed to prevent. Canada has national health care. Canadians pay a large portion of their incomes to support the system, but when they have a real need, they come to the United States willing to pay for what would take too long to get in Canada. Give me a break. I will take my chances on health care, like everything else in life. I don’t want a government watching over me from cradle to grave. I want a government to let me make my own decisions and pay my own way.

WC apparently you are fortunate enough to be able to afford health insurance, as am I (but Medicare makes it a lot easier and better). And you aren’t concerned for those who can’t. How Christian of you.
As for the Canadian system, here’s an article by a person knowledgeable about both systems.
As to high Canadian taxes:

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada’s taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn’t when everybody is covered.

As for rationed care:

While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should be.

There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don’t get one no matter what your doctor thinks — unless, of course, you have the money to cover the cost.

There’s a lot more; I urge you and anyone interested in saving money and serving people to read the article.

If you enjoy having part of your health insurance dollars used to pay the salaries of the people whose job it is to deny as many claims as they can, keep the present system.

The cries of socialism must sound very funny to people who have actually lived in Socialist countries.
In our history many services that were once available only to the rich have been undertaken by the government when we realized they were a common need and we had the funds. Would anyone seriously consider a series of private highways across the country or private police and fire companies? And, as any transition occurs, the businesses who have gotten rich on it cry bloody murder and try to recruit support among the very people they are profiting from.
If we ever end up with a fully government run health care system, it will be because we realized it was a vital and necessary service that should not be only available to those who can pay. That is not socialism, that is social justice.
If misinformation is being put out by the profiteers and their supporters in an attempt to prevent social justice, it is perfectly appropriate for the faithful to give witness to that.
As for Abortion, most private insurance does not cover it now, just like cosmetic surgery. It is considered “elective” unless a doctor recommends it for the health of the mother. There is no reason to believe it would be any different under a public plan.

Another trillion dollar deficit won’t hurt. We’re already over ten trillion in debt. Frugality is not a Christian virtue, it’s a Christian vice, those miserly people who object to spending. We need to spend more, even if we go bankrupt, to show our Christian compassion.
Obama knows how to finance health care reform. He’ll tax with fines those who don’t have health insurance. Fines against business and individuals who do not have insurance. Millions of Americans, young and healthy need to finance health care. They’re slackers, who need to help pay for trillions of debt.
We know health care costs are just government estimates, that usually end up with huge overruns. But this is our Christian virtue, to spend and give away our last penny, even if we’re bankrupt. Don’t worry about tomorrow. As Lord Keynes said, “in the long run we’re all dead.” As Franklin Roosevelt said, “we owe it to ourselves.” As Jesus said, don’t worry. Just spend, and keep spending, not worrying about debt or tomorrow. This will show us how compassionate we are.
Being frugal is just an old fashioned out dated morality. The new morality, of Christianity, is to spend and spend some more, not letting your right hand know what your left is spending, do not the birds have a place to live even though they don’t toil. What would Jesus do? Jesus would run up all the limits on credit cards, take out maximum loans, spend every penny, and not worry about tomorrow.
It is more blessed to give than receive, Just keep giving, to show your compassion. Give to the illegal aliens, give to foreign countries, give for abortions, give until you have nothing more to give, then run up debts to give some more, until you have no more credit. That’s the Christian way, that Obama knows we need to pursue. Bankruptcy is not a problem. God will take care of that.

“That is not socialism, that is social justice.”
Politically and economically speaking, one and the same.
The Soviet experiment is OVER. It FAILED.
BHO is a traitor to this country and is failing to fulfill his oath of office. This country has not made a greater mistake than when a few Justices decided the framers of the Constitution had hidden secret, enigmatic codes into the Constitution that allowed them to justify mass-murder – of American babies. BHO conjures up the same delusion.
Don’t let BHO anywhere near your pulpits. He is a deceiver.

Good luck Obama I certainly don’t believe you and if anyone who have been listening swallows this then they are blinded by your charisma. First place Obama is already promoting widespread abortion across the board as birth control and if you’ve ever been in some of the government run hospitals you already know that the level of care is on many occasions life threatening. And who wants to be like Canada?

Good luck Obama I certainly don’t believe you and if anyone who have been listening swallows this then they are blinded by your charisma. First place Obama is already promoting widespread abortion across the board as birth control and if you’ve ever been in some of the government run hospitals you already know that the level of care is on many occasions life threatening. And who wants to be like Canada?

I don’t know why he is asking the Religious to help, if they don’t belong to Rev. Wallis’s beliefs, or UCC, or anything else that is slightly progressive they will have far right mixed in, and if they do they’ll be Republicans, and there you go!!! Of course there is still hope with the unorthodox Jewish religons, some RC, some thinking Muslims. I believe Obama, I believe Obama, I believe Obams!!!
As far as grandchildren paying for debts, all of us that were born in the 1930′s have paid debts all our lives, and it didn’t kill us.

“”The cries of socialism must sound very funny to people who have actually lived in Socialist countries.”"
So, you know what people whose lives were dominated by totalitarian regimes and you think no one else does?
BHO believes he knows what Americans want.
But they DON’T want what he thinks they do.
It all just makes so much sense.

“”The cries of socialism must sound very funny to people who have actually lived in Socialist countries.”"
If you don’t know what those cries sound like, why would you object to others who think they do? Or. did you actually live in a totalitarian state yourself…
BHO believes he knows what Americans want.
But they DON’T want what he thinks they do.
It all just makes so much sense.
I learned this chant from a Socialist, back in the 1960′s, but I’ll paraphrase a bit -
HEY! HEY! HO! HO! BHO HAS GOT TO G O O O O O O !!!!!

Really hope your insurance and god take care of you, GC.

Very cute GC, but Hey!, Hey!, Hey! President Obama is here to stay!!!
Haven’t you noticed how the young want insurance?
Haven”t you noticed how people are losing their insurance because they can’t afford higher premiums, and deductibles?
Americans want what President Obama and his experts have laid out to help people and lower costs from Insurance Companies, control the waste, and put our health in our country on a higher level than it is right now.
Socialism, bah! humbug!. The same song was sung in F.D.R.’s time.

I am appalled that anyone with any integrity would create or promote such obvious and outrageous lies. It speaks far more about their faith, and how it is a distant second – or less – to their partisan politics. The credibility of these peole – which is already questionable – has plummeted even deeper into the abyss of vanity. Their need for attention is sad, their need to foster ignorance is shameful, and their inability to look to the needs of the very people for whom this bill would be an incredible benefit is sickening.
Tony Perkins should be absolutely ashamed of himself. Dobson is bad – and foolish enough. But this guy is willing to say and do anything for attention and to generate “donations”.

Well said, j.

Ditto, to nnmns, Well said, jestrfyl.

As a person who deal with poor people everyday looking for answers and I see that the many cuts in this administration are huge and the first to feel it have not found any relief under Obama. And if the government takes over the hospitals as well as the auto industry , just how will cash for clunkers translate in the health care business. No one can convince me that the underprivileged will be looked out for unless they are equal in education and housing which ani’t happening under any administration.

One thing BHO has that can make ANY of his “policies” (spelled I-D-E-O-L-O-G-Y) work are the printing presses, the ones printing colorful portraits of Franklin, Jackson and the rest, and it better be set “on” 24/7/365. Another is the power to tax – everyone and at truly oppressive rates. Or, socialize industry and turn profits over to the government.
All these scenarios are signposts along the way to financial and political chaos.
There are no other viable alternatives.
Except to get him out of there.
Travesty upon travesty.

Yes, GC, life’s tough under President Obama, having to try and get us out of the total mess “W” created with his personal war, kissing up to big business, etc. The travesty is “W” was actually elected not once but twice…so he could really screw up this country even more in his second term. We are in much better shape with President Obama in office than we ever were with “W” and his crew and “W”‘s boss Dicky. Folks fought the Medicare introduction…and that has turned out fine….social security probably had opponents, so the fact that someone is trying to help folks get medical coverage is scary too…to those who have it and don’t have to worry. If they think it will cost too much money…just try NOT having it. Those of us with insurance are paying for those without already. So claiming that it will cost too much? Already does cost us…the introduction of better health care may be less expensive in the long run…and will be the right thing to do for all of us.
We have already gotten the right man out of office…”W”. Things would have been just as bad under McCain.(and Sarah)

pagan are you saying things are better? Our kids are engaged in a war that Obama saw fit to start, people are losing their jobs and homes. I’m serving more poor people than ever with less resources and crime is up in areas where there was no crime before. Now all hospitals will be run by government workers. Nice!

cknuck, can you say IRAQ? Just who got us into that? Not Obama. And we were already in Afganistan…
Yes, things are still tough….and that was to be expected since the President has only been in office since January. “W” was in office ….8 incredibily LONG years. You expected to have the whole situation cleared up in 8 months? Hardly think so. And when did Obama say it was going to be easy and quick? That would be never. However the stock market (and some of my hard earned investments) is slowly getting better, housing is improving at the moment….Slow an steady…slow and steady. Does it make it easier on the people you serve…of course not, but eventually it will. IMO, electing the other candidate…McCain and his super intelligent running mate,Palin, would have been as bad as the one who left. Have Faith, cknuck, have Faith!

B H O HAS GOT TO G O O O O OOOOO!!!!!!!

ck wrote, “Our kids are engaged in a war that Obama saw fit to start”
WHAT?!? CK You KNOW better than this! You were here 8 years ago, and you were here when Bush fabricated this rationale for invading Iraq. It is this sort of selective memory or nuisance forgetting that makes the entire health care debate a bucket of rancid pudding. Actual flasehoods (know in their shrothand kind of way as lies) demean the speaker/writer and diminish the debate.
I am hoping you simply made a mistake with this remark. Otherwise I am not sure what to think.

GC, is that little cheer in the Bible too?

jest, I never excused Bush I am commenting on the Afghanistan war going on now. Are you saying Obama did not send men and woman to Afghanistan while at the same time still having our troops in Iraq?

“”…Otherwise I am not sure what to think…”"
Certainty is impossible without a truth-base.
Comments from heretics, atheists and pagans about what the Bible teaches, or doesn’t teach, are unreliable, at best.
There is no gain to be had debating Scripture with them.
BHO seeking religious help, especially if it is from God’s faithful, is a type of this hypocrisy.

IMO, most Atheists, Pagans and Heretics think all folks are entitled to health care, not just those with the money to buy it, GodsCountry. As to debating scripture? One should rely on your version? Nope. It is only as accruate as your interpretation….and that is always up for debate. )

“”GC, is that little cheer in the Bible too?”"
Nope. It is merely the desire of my heart.
BHO is traitorous to his country’s principles and therefore to his country and should be impeached as soon as a Republican majority in 2010 will allow.
This,this, is POLITICS.

The Soviet experiment is OVER. It is DEAD.
BHO can go home, now, before he takes the United States down a path of destructive debt, deficit spending, socialized industry and services, redistribution of wealth through oppressive taxation and the elimination of the middle class through double digit interest rates and inflation that will rival that of the 1970′s and worse.
BHO has proven he has no agenda in mind but that of mid-twentieth century drug-addled Maoist/Leninist revolutionaries.
THIS is politics.
The audacity of FALSE hope!

Obviously GC, the country didn’t agree with you in 2008′s election. They had had enough of “W”‘s 2 terms of disaster for this country.
IYO McCain and his really intelligent VP candidate, Ms. Palin was a better choice?? Fortunate the country also realized that would have been just as bad if not worse than “W”. It would, however, been hard to be worse than “W” and Dickie (his puppet master).
Sorry you have such a low opinion of President Obama. What he ultimately manages to do will help you too. Of course, you wouldn’t have to take advantage of that.
Would you have been against Social Security too? and Medicare? If so, I’m glad they were started. In fact you might already be using those “socialist” programs. Well, if you are, you’d best opt out, as they are wrong, in your eyes, huh?

Self-deceived is apparently self-satisfied.
Those who deny eternal truth will never have any source of argument or satisfaction than that which they can muster from within.
God will love you to death. Deny yourself. Turn to Him.

If BHO succeeds in forming America in his ideological image and we all have just what we need, live in a workers paradise, he will be a catastrophic failure. 2010 can not arrive fast enough. This election season will prove the man is too liberal for anyone outside Cuba.
America will be broke, broken and beyond hope.
No matter how audacious the hope.
The audacity of an idealogue.

…both above are claimed by GodsCountry…

Such a pessimist, GodsCountry. I’m so glad I have a happier outlook on life. I fear your beliefs make you sad.

Thanks for your concern.
I am sad your fear makes you disbelieve.

My fear of WHAT, GC? Why would not believing make me fearful? You don’t seem to to want to understand that it is more than possible to live without a belief such as yours and have a wonderfully happy life…as I have ( and my family has etc.) I believe in a lot of things, but your god isn’t one of them. No fear here…just a blessed and wonderful life with loved ones.

Why does disbelief make you happy? Ignorance is bliss?
How have you decided what is “good”? If it feels good?
How do you avoid total chaos with such diverse and imaginary belief systems? What Me Worry? Go with the flow?
There is no “there” there when you open up about anything beyond surface platitudes.
In my opinion, you are a false guide, devoted to subverting the faith of others, every chance you have.
Because this is “good” and you have a wonderful life.
The audacity.

Back to BHO.
I offered to write a note excusing my kids from any class that offered to present this recent bit of BHO baloney some call a speech.
Well, no need. It was not presented and none were deceived.
Thank God.
BHO has got to go!
This is politics…

GC, you still haven’t pointed to anything concrete I’m supposed to be fearful of. You have absolutely NO PROOF that you have all the answers, you have a belief that you do…that isn’t proof at all. (BTW, no one has all the answers, but perhaps you haven’t figured that out yet).
The ignorance you have decided I have? Already told you, I was raised a Christian…and I chose to leave that belief system. So there is no ignorance as you’d like to believe…cause it is easier for you to do so. I have no ignorance, just bliss. My beliefs are just that…mine, just like yours are yours. IMO, much of what you believe is imaginary…so we have a draw on that fact.
I have no chaos in my life…I lead a very normal one…I eat, sleep, love, laugh, clean house, shop, etc. just like you do…so there is no problem. Do you have chaos in your life when you feel that “god will get you if you don’t do the right thing and doom you to hell”? I don’t live in fear. Do you?
I had loving parents who taught me good from bad. Thus, I know how to decide.
As to surface platitudes? Read plenty of them recently. Gee,wonder which poster(GC?) wrote them?
Yes, GC, I’ll come clean…and I wrote this on another post to you, so you may get this twice…I am the false guide you proclaim I am…I have horns, and a spiked tail and set out to try and get all you dudes to stop believing in your god. You caught me…and it took you a long time!!!! ) Good God, man…you’re so set in your ways, you probably do believe what I just wrote. Are you that gullible? Your preaching got so serious, or silly, I had to respond.
Have a Blessed Day. This had been fun!

President Obama is the best president in a very long time…a refreshing change from the past 8 years with the pseudo leader. Certainly glad your children didn’t get to hear that President Obama wanted them to stay in school and work hard. I KNOW you disagree with that, right GC?

“”…Good God, man…you’re so set in your ways, you probably do believe what I just wrote…”"
Yes, I do.
There is no other motive for your presence, let alone for what you write.
You sidle up, folksy like, to poster’s who love God and then you plant doubt after doubt.
You are through. You are exposed for what you are. There is no more argument and no discussion will suffice, unless it is to discuss a new-found faith. All that you say is based on the non-existence of God and His Son, Jesus Christ. You will lose any argument, using your basis, so there is no point continuing.
God is.
The audacity of false hope.

BHO is the blind guide of blind guides.
No argument there, either.

So glad you saw “the light” GC. I actually have “666″ tatooed on my forehead for all to see…but since this is the net, you can’t see it. Good Grief! You have absolutely no sense of humor, do you GC? None whatsoever. Sad.
As to being through? Sorry to disappoint. I plan to stick around. Guess you’re leaving due to the fact that you haven’t managed to “convert me” to my former religion…Methodist. It’s been a riot…and I personally have enjoyed this…have had a lot of laughs. BTW, the posters here are very smart folks. and if I have planted any doubts (while I cozy up…thanks for the compliment) then they aren’t too confident in their beliefs, huh? Some even know how to respect a non-Christian’s beliefs. Those are the “true” Christians. They don’t preach, or feel that they are responsible to constantly push their faith. They show it in their discussions , without preaching.
May the Goddess bless and keep you safe. Like I said…it had been totally fun “conversing” with you !

My how the deceiver squirms when exposed. This is a validation of an old cliche; the truth hurts.
Some will refuse to leave the darkness.
Some will continue deceving, spreading false hope.
There can be no mercy for these.
Only the vast tracts of emptiness, hopelessness entailed by the travesty of denying God.

…GodsCountry claims the above.

This gets funnier all the time, GC. You’re so serious…and humorless. Squirm…no. Why would I? I haven’t denied being Pagan and you are the one who has labeled me with all that other nonsense.
Smile, life is good. )