Totally sad day for the GLBT folks in Maine. It is an equality issue….which obviously those voters in Maine don’t seem to understand.

Gay “marriage” is not an equality issue…not a civil rights issue. The vote in Maine is simply recognizing that gay “marriage” doesn’t exist and therefore should not be recognized. It is the same thing as me calling myself the King of England and expecting recognition of such. I am simply not that individual, nor could I ever be, and others shouldn’t be forced to recognize my little fantasy.
If liberal states like California and Maine can figure it out, it should be pretty obvious.

It’s an issue of giving equal rights to people who are naturally born a certain way. Gays, lesbians, and bisexuals are born the way they are, so a marriage between two homosexual individuals is as natural as one between two heterosexual individuals, as it is following the way nature created them.

Frank Schubert, Leader against Same Gender Marriage in Maine said, “It has all come together tonight, the institution of marriage has been “preserved” in Maine and across the nation”.
What has been “preserved” is the continuing frustration of men and women born Gay and treated as though they are second class citizens by too many self-centered American citizens.
Another Maine spokesman, Scott Fish, thinks the results of the voting isn’t anti-gay, he isn’t anti-gay, he is just preserving(again THE Word) Traditional Marriage. Fish, we have been in a Traditional Marriage for 56 years, but we have not even once looked into each others eyes, kissed, and said, “Isn’t it wonderful we have a traditional marriage.” Why can’t all of you dividers of American Citizens be honest enough to enjoy what you have and share how it feels to be an equal man and woman in the United States of America?
You may feel like you are saving the U.S., but you’re not, you are dividing the U.S., and I am tird of it. Not having the economy the way it should be is bad, not having health insurance for everyone in America is bad, but what is worse is helping to put GLBT people asunder and treating them as though they are sub-human.
Have a lovely evening, after all you worked very hard to bring more hopes and dreams to fall apart.
Quotes from CNN.

The bad guys win this time. Except in some places where they didn’t like upstate NY’s congressional election. Too bad. They have the superior megaphones in Fox “News” and such but the companies who sponsor them need to ask themselves whether they really want to do what they are doing to our country.

suck it upo guys, everybody don’t believe that homosexuals are born that way and you can’t seem to prove your point, why because you have no point. The vote is in and the more you try to push level headed people into trying to force them to accept homosexulity as a natural and wholesome people are going to answer back. You already have equal rights don’t try to convince us that mommy is daddy and two daddies is right.

I think it’s time we started taxing the religious groups in this country. All of them. If some all-powerful being is on their side, money shouldn’t be a problem, should it?

I have no objection to same-sex couples receiving equal rights in a separate institution.

I think we need to tax Xians out of existence.
They can’t have slaves anymore and they can’t pick on Jews. So they crucify gay people.
The world would be a much better place without a lot of them.

Fear and ignorance won out again I am sorry to say. I saw some of the ads that some of the “pro-traditional marriage” groups put out and they were shameful. If you believed them you would think that the world was going to come to an end if two people of the same sex got married. It was such nonsense. Don’t these self-righteous types have anything better to do than hate gays? Oh that’s right there are also the Muslims and the big bad secular humanist “menace” out there too.
I have heard ONE logical reason as to why gays should not allowed to be married. And don’t use the “It’s against God’s law” argument. We are a secular nation. We are not a theocracy!

Yeah maybe you ought to start with Rev. Peter Morales, president of the Unitarian Universalist Association, he seems to be really outspoken. lol

I meant to say “I HAVEN’T heard one logical reason as to why gays should not be allowed to be married.” My bad. That is what happens when I type too quickly.

So then cknuck, if gays aren’t born as they are, would you really say they just choose to be gay? If that’s so, when did you make a conscious choice not to be gay? I’m really curious about that one.
Second of all, psychologists around the world agree that homosexuality is nothing abnormal. It can be found in pretty much every human society throughout history, and even further nearly every species of animal has shown individuals that have homosexual orientations.
Do animals choose to be gay cknuck?

Oh come on, cknuck. I figured you’d want your church to be first, to show just how much faith you have that “God” will provide the money for you and protect you from us godless liberals.
Besides, I’m sure the Unitarian Universalists wouldn’t mind supporting their country in exchange for being politically active.

No one “wins” when an entire segment of the population is denied rights.
To some degree I suppose some of this gloating is simply payback from the election a year ago (which was in turn payback for the last two presidential mashups). I think the Obama supporters should have been as diligent in this off year election, too. This is what happens when people return to their comfortable complacency.
But like the Yankees and New York major Bloomberg, it seems many of these referenda results were bought with big buck ad campaigns. It seems appropriate at Halloween to make Boogiemonsters out of people that are different. Irrational fear is not a good component to the gumbo that is our national character. But like bad potatoes, there it is anyway.

I voted. I vomited.
It’s so pathetic that people aren’t taught to think while young. If, say, the Catholic Church wanted to make their version of marriage the law, no one would go for it but when other people want to make their version of marriage the law, people support it.
Why is one version supported while the other not? Sadly, religious based oppression, for the most part, oh and the “ick” factor.
If marriage means commitment between two adults to me, it seems pretty reasonable and between those two people. Adult people, sane people, reasonable people.
It is a civil rights issue because we’ve got a whole lot of ignoramouses trying to control a big portion of the public.

confess, quote, “It’s so pathetic that people aren’t taught to think while young.”
Do you mean aren’t taught to agree with you? So where would you chose to teach them? elementary school, When would you teach the young little kiddies about homosexuality?

Well, congratulations to some of my fellow Christians for successfully “protecting” yourselves against my partner and me. I’m not quite sure how denying families like ours the right to spousal hospital visitation, spousal employee benefits and government survivors’ benefits, and other legal recognitions of our relationship is beneficial in any way to you other than massaging your prejudice, but — I guess If The Bible Tells You So you don’t care about the specifics.

Confessoressa, some progressive schools do teach young students about the birds and the bees, and all that will affect their young lives. Ignorence is being attacked like it never has been before, thanks to the net, and communication. The “purposely driven fighters” against science, and the truth will lessen, and our U.S. will be free to move ahead to affairs that require thinking people. If they don’t join in the now and it’s reality and become knowledgeable they’ll be lost in the shuffle of ignorence.

Separation of Church and State. Just because a religion doesn’t want human’s to have equal rights shouldn’t give them rights to change anything in a Country that declares that “all men are created equally.” The United Kingdom and Canada seem to be having no problems with Gays marrying and these countries having been blasted off the map by anyone’s deities.
Laws cannot make people cease to exist and homosexuality has been around from the good olde days. Just because a Country agrees to give all its people equal rights doesn’t mean that all people agree with those rights. A church or group doesn’t have to agree with Gay marriage, but a government isn’t a church.

It’s sad but then again, sometimes a majority simply do not understand nor are they honestly interested in providing equal rights and because of this, SSM will be a reality but it will probably take the U.S. Supreme Court to make a decision on the matter. SSM will be a reality in the U.S. even if it takes time.
What many who are in favor of civil unions fail to see or understand is that it does not give the same legal protections and rights as marriage does. The government simply doesn’t recognize civil unions in legal matters.

cknuck: “So where would you chose to teach them? elementary school, When would you teach the young little kiddies about homosexuality?”
I’m beginning to think that you guys have been spreading that damn lie for so long you actually believe it.

Children aren’t stupid…who marries who just comes up in everyday life and should they see or hear about a SS marriage, then the parent can just mention that sometimes men marry men or women marry women, just like men and women marry. Of course that wouldn’t be the Super Christian’s…who feel love between same genders leading to a life long commitment is somehow evil and “UnChristian”. No one has to wonder where children get their attitudes of prejudice. As for schools, private and/or public aren’t going to make a point of “teaching homosexuality” anymore than heterosexuality is taught….unlike those that think homosexuality is going to be taught starting in kindergarden. Sex ed is a gradual thing, and that education should be taught (and is from birth…just handling the child during bathing, diaper changes etc.) beginning at home. The fact that some human beings are sexually attracted to the same gender will just be part of life. No big deal, IMO. For some it is obviouly a big deal.

pagan, I’m not sure where you are going with your post but S/S relationships can never be the same as opposite sex relationships, that is a false statement. Heterosexuality is taught in school it’s called normal life from the birds to the bees taught all of the time, it is the way life is formed and anything else is abnormal.

confess, quote, “It’s so pathetic that people aren’t taught to think while young.”
“Do you mean aren’t taught to agree with you?”
Why no, cknuck, why would you accuse me, someone who is chastising adults for controlling the freedom of other adults, of wanting people to just swallow up what I say without consideration? Obviously, I am about protecting the rights of the individual to act based on their own beliefs and thoughts about things.
By the way, even if you agreed with me, I would still be said that you weren’t a person who considers carefully. You are a hindrance to any side you are on because you lack basic skills in logic.
I would teach childrent to think in elementary school, of course. I would teach them to think for themselves from the moment they are born. There’s a reason we each have our own brains, you know.
Children don’t need to be taught homosexuality. The problem is that children are being taught homophobia.
Yes Henrietta, I believe that all you have to do is answer childrens questions honestly and they just naturally ask questions when they are ready. I see this with my own little 6 year old. He’s never once asked me about two women being together or two men being together even though he’s been exposed to same-sex couples for his whole life. He’s never asked me about a man and a woman being together either and believe me, this is a kid that’s got questions. Go figure, maybe he just figures it’s all about two people loving each other.

cknuck, no heterosexual marriage is the same as another either, so my statement stands. The children can have horrible parents (child abuse etc) to caring, loving parents and places in between. So just because children are being raised in a hetrosexual marriage doesn’t guarantee anything. Lots of proof everyday. Children require and deserve nuturing, loving, protecting parents and that can be achieved by M/F, M/M and F/F. Single parents have also raised productive, healthy and caring children. Heterosexual parents have raised lousy kids and “good” kids. And I’m sure homosexual parents have had “good” kids and “not so good kids”. IYO, homosexual parents are “abnormal” but it really isn’t going to affect you in any way. The important thing for children are loving parents. Combination of those parents? No problem.

YN I assume you are confess and forgot to sign in. You think I lack basic skills in logic that is your right to think as such but your arrogance is showing in that you think children are not being taught to think for their own and you are the only one to come to the children of the world and teach them to think for themselves. What a hoot.
pagan their is a lot more to raising a child than your description, a lot more should be in place. Homosexuals are out of sync with what a male or female should be many kids are in this society. Children need a whole and healthy mom and dad, that is the model we shoot for but if there is a single parent they do the best they can do. A lot of single moms try their best to put a good male model in their child’s life for balance even if it is a cop down at the local PAL or a coach or some decent male figure. A child raised by homosexuals is at a distinct disadvantage regardless of the devotion or love the homosexual may have for the child it’s just not enough. Not to mention the negative transference and counter-transference.

Why do you think that children raised by a same gender couple is isolated from the world, cknuck? They go to school, and shopping just like children from heterosexual couples. Some attend religious organizations…church, temple etc. They see other children’s parents, and Gee, maybe even are friends with them, and visit in their homes. So what disadvantage? I have a friend who’s a Lesbian, and her daughter is married to a man…what disadvantage? She isn’t a lesbian just because her mother is….she is heterosexual. So that theory doesn’t hold water, IMO.

BTW, cknuck….are you saying that there are requirements for a male and a female? They have to do certain things that represent gender (other than the physical of course). Girls have to be teachers, and boys firemen, girls nurses, boys doctors etc.?
Negative transference & counter transference?

No pagan that is not what I am saying at all with the boys firemen girls nurses and I think your lesbian friend’s daughter is very lucky. But I am saying that the family unit is in danger as it should be and the changes is going to affect the world. The prevalence of homosexuality is not the only thing that is affecting our children there are other things also, but all of it is negative/bad.

cknuck, my friend’s daughter just wasn’t born a lesbian, it really had/has nothing to do with luck. Her luck was having a wonderful mother who also happened to be a school teacher her entire career. She is retired now. Her daughter is a teacher too. Homosexuality isn’t a chosen thing, but I know that you disagree with that.
You mentioned that the family unit is in danger, etc. I think you are old enough to realize that EVERY older generation has felt that the world was doing bad things to their children….expect that was even being said in JC’s time, actually probably since time began. Those folks that lived through WWI,and between it and WWII and all wars before and since probably felt that way. There really isn’t anything new out there. There have always been temptations for every generation. Some are exactly the same as now. I’m not as pessimistic as you are. News only highlights the bad, and forgets to mention the good. What’s the expression? There’s nothing new under the sun? And homosexuality isn’t either….it is, however, finally being (or should be anyhow) accepted as a natural state for some folks. If I felt as you do, I’d never have had my 2 children during the Viet Nam War. If my parents had felt that way, I wouldn’t have been born during WWII. There are fortunately optimistic folks out there, me included. It really sounds like your Christianity doesn’t help you feel happy, cknuck.

…pagan philosophy defines the term “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” and it certainly is not a truth source. The Truth is this; Homosexual practice is sin. Sin is never to be pursued, especially as a lifestyle, i.e. as in “marriage” where homosexuality is not only practiced but enshrined. The only other place where sin is so ennobled is Hell.
A majority in Maine recognized Maine is not Hell.

Actually pagan I lead a very happy life I have children and grandchildren all happy heterosexual smart and athletic. You imagine because I disagree with homosexuality as open and promoted practice I am miserable? I guarantee I live a fuller life than you could imagine all over the world in service operation two corporations and involved with so many people I cannot remember many people’s names lucky I have a admin for all of that stuff. To your disappointment I am a normal happy person and like most people I think homosexuality is just wrong.

cknuck, I would never wish for you to be unhappy and I’m sincerely glad you have a full and rich life (so do I) and I’m not disappointed that you aren’t unhappy…my comment was because of your outlook on the state of things…you seem to think the world is going to hell in a handbasket…and I disagree. I thought, maybe I’m wrong, that being a devote (as you are) Christian that that might make you a little more optimistic as far as world affairs are concerned. If that is a wrong assumption, OK. I do know that your attitude about homosexuality…and that your children and grandchildren are heterosexual…but if one of them wasn’t …what would you do?

GC, “pagan philosophy defines the term “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit”….
That would once again be your opinion and one I don’t worry about. You feel homosexuality is a sin….I don’t. A difference of opinion. And, since there is no place called “hell” not a problem for me or many others. You like to be threatened to cooperate. I don’t. Hell has no place in my life.
Have a nice day.

pagan do you think because I speak out that homosexuality is a sin that I could not love a person who suffers from homosexuality? You know so little about Christianity in your pursuit to add up the what you perceive as the negatives. The bible does predict the end but if you know anything about life all ends are followed by a beginning.

So cknuck, if one of your grandchildren was gay or a lesbian (since I don’t know the genders) you would still love them…but would you be able to accept a marriage of one of them, and accept any children they might have (because you say marriage isn’t something homosexuals are supposed to do…much less raise children).
“Suffers” from homosexuality? It isn’t a disease, cknuck. Diabetes, MS, MD, etc., those are diseases. Homosexuality? No.
There are good things in Christianity (and other religions) and there are what I consider not so good things….living under the threat of a hell fire I find a ridiculous part of what some Christians believe. It is a control mechanism used by some ministers to scare the heck out of followers. Just why would a loving god threaten his/her creation with hell just because they don’t always follow his/her rules? Not for me. I do not live under a threat of dying and burning in some after life. In fact, I’ll probably be creamated. A sacred ending, IMO. Being stuck under ground in a box? Not for me. Little confining.

Oh, cknuck…the only suffering homosexuals have is having to deal with those folks that have decided that because of their sexual orientation, they can’t marry like heterosexuals, which would entitle them to ALL the legal privildeges of a married person. That is the suffering because of homosexuality.

The mind set of people who refuse to accept the words of the Medical Associations about GLBT, and want to keep peoples children in a seperate class below them should just be overlooked and our government should stop stalling and make it official: Everyone is equal in America. If they had waited to vote in acceptance for the black race as being equal with the white race, they would still be fighting as the Gays are.

H22 you are really something, it’s black race huh? Did the Medical Associations tell you that? A chld cannot naturally be produced through homosexuality. A homosexual couple trying to replicate a hetrosexual relationship with some sort of artificial pregnacy cannot produce a child with the combination of traits or genes the child can only be like one of them and not like normal couples be produced with a combination of both. It is not a naturl union.
pagan your speculation is just way over the top and cannot be addressed.

“pagan your speculation is just way over the top and cannot be addressed”. cknuck
So your telling me that a homosexual couple, even with a Civil Union, doesn’t suffer legally because they don’t have the RIGHTS AND PRIVELIGES of a heterosexual married couple? Well guess what? There are more rights to the partner in marriage than in “civil unions.” No speculation here.

Just a thought, cknuck. It is known that there are 1138 rights and priveliges denied same sex couples, that automaticly come with heterosexual marriages. Tell the the is equality…and should continue while you tell me that you don’t dislike homosexuals. There OK as long as they don’t want to “marry” like REAL couples, AKA heterosexuals. IT’s a Dam equality issue, not a religious one. The word “marry” isn’t the property of a religion!!! If so,how come my son and his wife, “married” with a notary public is married? The state says so. NO religion has to.

I didn’t say what I said to make you annoyed Ck. I’ve listened to discussions about the comparisons on TV with Black notable people taking part and they agree. No, homosexual people can’t both give their genes to natural babies. They can adopt babies or children that desperately need a home, raise it with love, and be a family just like a heterosexual couple can adopt a baby without their genes, and raise it with love. God thought of everything, but society has been ignoring this revelation for too many years, and some children have had to grow up for too many years being in foster homes or Orphanages.

pagan, my wife and I have never exercised 1138 rights but I’ll take your word> How about the natural things that homosexuals cannot exercise because their unions are not natural. You assume that man can do what God does thus going against God’s design so that even if man defiantly says homosexuality is the same as one man one woman it will never be.

Actually, cknuck, if you read just a part of those rights that you have because you are married, and heterosexual, you’d be surprised, you have used part of them and not thought about it, because you haven’t had to.
Also, sorry about the mistyped words in that last post! I was thinking faster than my fingers could accurately type!

Well cknuck, just 5 of the things you can do, being a married heterosexual male, but a same gender couple can’t do…bacause they aren’t allowed the same rights.
#1: Visit their spouse in the hospital. Even with legal paperwork, a homosexual can’t count on the hospital to honor it…thus no visitation. Would you have to consider that if your wife went into the hospital?
#2: Can’t file joint income taxes.
#3: Their spouse isn’t eligible to receive social security pensions or many other government benefits.
#4: Can be fired just because (and no other reason) they are gay, causing financial hardship.
#5: Can’t pass their estate to a spouse tax free.
And there are 1133 more…
So do you honestly think that that represents what this country promices? Equality…civil rights (you should understand civil rights). Denying those rights above makes no more sense than telling interacial couples that they couldn’t marry….until the law came to it’s senses! But wonder if they had said to interacial couples…sure, you can marry but you can’t have the same rights as same racial couples….that is what the law is now telling homosexual couples even in civil unions. As to the god’s plan thing…what happens in the bedroom is not anyone’s business…not even a divine beings. Marriage isn’t the property of any religion. It is allowed by the government as a legal institution. No one should be denyed that right.

BTW,cknuck, IF one of your children or grandchildren was gay and you say you’d still “love” them, but would you accept them wanting to marry and raise a child or children. First, I guess they’d be “sinful” and couldn’t live a “natural life”, but after getting over that….would you actually want them to be happy even if it meant being in a permanent relationship with a same gender person? You avoided that really well…saying my speculation was “over the top”. The idea that you might have “fathered” a gay child or grandchild bothers you, huh?

cknuck…last line didn’t mean that you “fathered” (ick) your grandchild…but had a gay grandchild! I just reread it.

pagan none of my kids or grandkids are homosexual but if that was ever to happen my views would not change just because someone I was a homosexual. My views would remain the same. Other than that they would have a great time being my relative.

Cknuck,
Please take a moment to examine your own behaviour before you project it on to me. There is nothing arrogant about stating my opinion about the state of education and I hardly think I’m a savior for the world. Your Jesus-complex only serves to keep you from examining your own lack of humility.
Isn’t it nice that you can have your family? Too bad you are part of a mass of others preventing the same for all of humanity. You are forcing your beliefs (yes, sadly, not very well-thought out or defended beliefs and based on a religion not shared by all) on others so that they may not enjoy the same freedom. Homosexuals are not your children and it is not your right to decide for them what a healthy marriage is. I will fight for their rights against the likes of you and die being proud of that fight.

confess no one decides what is healthy it just is, I’m not forcing anything on anyone the majority of people in the states believe that homosexuality is not a normal activity. I happen to believe it is not healthy, physically, spiritually or mentally. I base my beliefs on the holy bible, homosexuals I have personally meant and information I have read. I believe that is how we all come to conclusions and I don’t seem to be in an minority on this at all.

Thanks, cknuck, for answering my last question.

Healthy is what it is but you are indeed not just choosing your belief but enforcing your opinion on what healthy is on other individuals. I don’t care if the majority of people think that one woman cannot enter into a marriage commitment with another woman, it is not their right to choose that.
Believe all you want cknuck, but enforcing that belief is where your right over someone else’s ends.
Next time you go to the polls vote for the right of each individual to pursue happiness with the lover of their choice. Vote for freedom.

“…to vote in acceptance for the black race…”"
This perversity is NOT deserving of civil rights. This perversity is NOT the equal of blackness.
Blackness is NOT a perversity.
It is GOOD.
Homosexual practice and fixation is EVIL.

“This perversity is NOT deservng of civil rights” GC
It isn’t up to you to decide that. This is the USA, and whether you like it or not, a democracy. EQUAL rights for all…sexual orientation isn’t a consideration. Religion isn’t a consideration. I understand that is hard for you to understand. You prefer to sit in judgement….and hide behind a little book that is supposed to represent an invisible beings “words” as told by a super son. You happened to be born heterosexual ( I assume…or?). Some are born homosexual. Who some one loves and wants to spend their life with, legally, with a marriage, is really NONE of your concern. It doesn’t have anything at all to do with your heterosexual life. No one appointed you the Master of Morals. It simply isn’t your job.

“”…It simply isn’t your job…”"
…pity the fools and naifs who may, somehow, come to think it’s YOUR job…
I simply won’t let you have that kind of sway.
You represent evil. You deny God.
I am here to tell the truth.
Defeat of gay “marriage” is the only acceptable outcome, as would the defeat of any evil practice.

“…..I simply won’t let you have that kind of sway.” GC
YOU, my friend, have absolutely no power to do anything, but if it makes your ego feel better, go for it!
You are the truth teller? Like I said already, you are not the Master of Morals….which is a blessing in more ways than one.
As for me representing evil? You really love that word, huh? No, I’m just a person with a different opinion and faith than yours, and you have problems with that. “Evil” is not allowing people who love each other to legally commit in marriage to each other. That, my hallowed friend, is true “evil”.