Go for it Mary! Hope you’re are elected.

How about some “gracious restraint” on the Anglican world’s bigotry?

What does it matter if she’s lesbian!?!?! What difference does it make?!?! As far as I can tell, the only difference it makes is that some people just can’t stand gay people being out, open, proud, and in positions of worth.

It matters because homosexuality is not of God, and the church is suppose to be of God. pagans and atheist would love for the church to divide over this and dissolve as long as they get a homosexual in there.

cknuck is so incredibly ready to read god’s mind. But don’t be as impressed as he wants you to be because it’s actually easy. cknuck’s god is all in his head.

The real issue here is about disunity within the church. “Serious consequences for the Communion as a whole”- that’s a powerful statement. Denominationalism is not what Christ intended. We are meant to be united in love of God and not be divided by political nuances. This division is the ultimate example of the problem with protestantism- as soon as someone disagrees with their church, pastor, or a teaching espoused by them, they are able to leave and establish their own set of beliefs. These divisions among us are crippling. We spend too much time fighting with in the Christian community and are unable to unite to face the true oppressors in the world.

“We spend too much time fighting with in the Christian community and are unable to unite to face the true oppressors in the world.”
Those being ??

I think that ck and the bishop who said lgbt folks can’t get into heaven are all trying to push St Peter into retirement. Thank goodness (and God) that they are not the ones standing at the Pearly Gates; there would be no room for grace! And I’m not too sure how happy God would be at their presumptive strikes.

It matters because homosexuality is not of God, and the church is suppose to be of God.
Sez you. That’s the whole problem with you religious types – you spend your entire lives worshipping a God that you’ve convinced yourself believes exactly as you believe. Since there are billions of you, there are billions of versions of your God, and they’re all diametrically opposed to the same people the individual personally doesn’t like.
No wonder you people can’t get along.
Grow up, already.

It’s easy to have disunity in the Churches in America, because our country hasn’t helped the GLBT to become accepted as equal with everyone else. On monday in the NJ Legislature discussing Marriage equality, NAACP Leader, Julian Bond was a wittness for the GLBT. He compared the marriage equality battle to the struggle to achieve Civil Rights in the 1960′s, He said, ” Gay Rights are Civil Rights”.

Three males as one person and sharing themselves in a loving relationship for all eternity might sound ‘queer’ to some people but, not to a real Christian.

As an Epicopalian I am saddened by the tentative appointment of a Lesbian to the office of Bishop. I pray that we will vote to reject the confirmation of the Lesbian bishop, else we will be excommunicated from the Anglican community of Churches.

I get tired of “for the sake of preserving unity..” Did Jesus strive to preserve unity when he spoke up against the church authorities?? Did he refrain from reaching out and seeking justice for the marginalized so as to not offend anyone or stir up conflict. God help us, and I mean that as my daily prayer. Let’s seek justice for all of God’s people and see God in one another instead of condoning such hatred in the name of “restraint”.

Here’s an article I’d like to see: “Episcopalians Urge Anglicans to Reject Laws Condemning People to Death Or Imprisoning Them Because You Don’t Like How They Have Sex.”

None of this is surprising in light of what Paul preached in II Tim 3 and 4. We are living in the day of “everyone does what is right in their own sight”. They say it is “love” and “tolerance” which motivates acceptance, but what they are seeking is the approval of man, not of God. If Jesus were their focus, they would view sin as He does and it would grieve them to “tolerate” it in their midst. Jesus said MANY in that day (the day of judgment) will say, “Lord, Lord, haven’t we done such and such in your name?”, Jesus will say to them, “depart from me you worker of iniquity(lawlessness), I never knew you”. Many who “say” they are Christians do not follow Jesus, they still live for themselves and their wants/desires, not for the Glory of God. The TRUE church is supposed to stand as a LIGHT in this world—reflecting the character of Jesus in Holiness and in Love. The true church would love the sinner amongst them, yet they would seek to see such come to a true state of repentance and restoration within the Body of believers. The true church would not accept immorality as something “good” in it’s midst, knowing what Jesus taught about those who continue in immorality, whether it be homosexuality, premarital sex, or adultery (extra-marital as well as legalized adultery, aka: remarriage).

amen the truth visits here at last!

Gee! YN, you made cknuck a happy camper. Good for you, he needs that sometimes. )
I find it interesting that you feel that the “true church” would not accept immorality as something “good”. Just what is the “true church”? There is no such thing…which I found out a long time ago. An article above mentions that many Christian’s in the U.S. feel there is more than on way to believe in a god. Now that is “good”.

YN, remarriage is wrong? It’s legal adultry? You’ve got to be kidding!! After a legal divorce a person shouldn’t get remarried? Holy Cow! Thank heavens this nation isn’t a Theocracy. I think I’d leave and for England or somewhere else for sure. Sad when a person thinks that a leagally divorced person can’t remarry. Oh I forgot, the bible says divorce is wrong….just stay in an unhappy marriage. Nope!

Divorce is wrong pagan and it can be avoided certainly it should not be where it is now. Where the divorce rate is now makes every bit much of a mockery of marriage as homosexuality. People with your mind set toward it only make prevision for more divorce, pass that down to prosperity.

cknuck there’s a movement in California to get a proposition on the ballot to really protect marriage by making divorce illegal. Have you signed that? Talked it up to the people you know? Sent them money?

Then I guess you, cknuck, and YN find that a woman (or man) should stay in a marriage even if violence is involved…after all, divorce is not allowed by some outdated book. If you want to encourage adultry, just outlaw divorce…then there will really be a lot of adultry or more folks won’t bother to marry at all…they’ll just “live in sin” or whatever. That is better than allowing the law (or if RCC, buy your way out with an annulment) to continue to grant divorce by your way of thinking, right? Interesting outlook on things. Stay in a totally unhappy situation or violent situation forever because god said so…that is just plain stupid.

Pagan (I hope someday this name will be nothing more than an unpleasant memory once you meet the TRUE God),
It’s understandable you think it “stupid” to obey something because “god said so”, but for a TRUE CHRISTIAN, obedience is a sign of our love for Jesus……….it means that even though we suffer, we do what is right in His sight. Do I believe that a woman should stay in the same household where she is being beat by her husband? No. Scripture teaches: “if a woman does depart, she is to remain UNMARRIED OR be reconciled to her husband. (I Cor. 7:10-11). If she does disobey God by joining herself with another man(and His laws apply to all, not just Christians), Jesus said, “whosoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery and whosoever marries her that is divorced commits adultery”. Jesus teaches us that marriage IS for life (not supposed to be). When He joins two in an original marriage, they become One flesh—for life (see Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39). If one/both leave and marry others, it is adultery, not a real marriage in the eyes of God (read about Herod/Herodias, David/Michal). It matters not what man “legalizes” when it is in opposition to God’s “rules”/commands. Man may legalize homosexual unions and adulterous unions, calling them “marriages”, but they, according to God’s Word, are sinful unions. As for “Christians” who say there are many different ways to believe in “a” god, well, if they call themselves “Christian” and believe such, they are in no way true Christians, because TRUE Christians follow Christ, and Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man can come to the father except through me”. There is only one way to God the Father and that is through His Son, Jesus…………..and that came directly from Jesus’ own mouth.

It’s good that fewer and fewer people are believing in gods like yours Lb. You made that abundantly clear.

pagan you use the extreme to justify everyday convenient disregard for traditional values. You always use rape to justify abortion when the percentage of are so low there is no justification. That is a skill set identified with God’s adversary. Now battered wife syndrome justifies all divorce clever little pagan.
nnmns you’d be surprised in how many people believe in God oh guess what you are in the minority.

Sadly, mmn, you are right fewer and fewer people actually believe in the God of the Bible, including many professing Christians. As I said, we live in the age the Bible talks about: “every man does what is right in his own sight”. That is why the “church” looks no different than the lost world around it……..it is because the “church” is filled with LOST people trying to be “religious”. Immorality is increasing IN PROFESSING CHURCHES—-homosexuality, adultery, and fornication are all becoming “accepted” in one form or another as “blessed” of God……..and anyone who quotes the bible saying otherwise is intolerant/hateful, etc.
The truth is: being “relgious” never got anyone to heaven. Being born again is the only thing that will get people to heaven. Once a person is TRULY born again, they WANT to do what pleases God—even when it does not feel good in our flesh—even if it is greatly sacrificial. Most will not sacrifice for a greater good and when they do “sacrifice” it is for personal gain—-either in how others look at them, or they will get “something” if they do the right thing. It is not for God however, but for them.

lb I’ll let you and cknuck argue this out. You are both wrong, each in his own way. Have fun.

ck, you never answered the question…are ALL marriage OK to stay in no matter what??? Think about it…..ALL marriages should NEVER EVER be disolved? WOW. That is ridiculous. There are some situations not worth staying in….but of course, none qualify for separation and divorce. ID’d with god’s adversary? First I’d have to believe in your god, and/or that little devil guy. Since I don’t, that really means nothing to me.
As for using extremes as examples? You NEVER do that, cknuck!
LB, being born once was enough, thank you.

“LB, being born once was enough, thank you.”
I pray you change your mind someday, Pagan.
Jesus said, “Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again’.”

Being new ( I assume to this site) you don’t know that I was raised in a loving Christian home and decided at 17 (many, many years ago) that it wasn’t for me. Heard all about JC, and his dad, and never was really convinced that any of it was really true…in spite of 17 years of church and SS. So thanks for the prayer but it ain’t going to happen. My 2 sisters are devout Christians (not pushy ones) and the 3 of us are still friends and love each other even with my lack of belief. JC, IMO, was a great teacher, (human not divine) but so were other religious teachers in the far past. The book written about him and the OT before him are great stories, (written and changed and translated over the centuries to push a belief) and some have some lessons for life, and some Pslams are beautiful, but it really isn’t any more important in my life than other books I have read. As to the topic….the woman in this case happens to be a lesbian which should make no difference to anyone. Only thing necessary for a job is whether the person nominated can do the job, not what their sexual orientation is.

pagan I’m sure Lastblast knows what a pagan is so your description of you is no more than a classic description of a pagan and unnecessary. So a person who rejects Christ is a qualifier to you to determine what should and should not go on in church. That’s rich.

cknuck, I was not addressing you. I also suspect LB is an intelligent person. He will no doubt tell me what he thinks.
ck, Guess you, a Christian, are an expert on who is qualified to determine things regarding “Christian” churches. I’m most certainly not qualified to tell any church what to do, but I have opinions on that subject and as you know will voice them just like you do. Never hurts to have an outside opinion,un-biased and non-prejudiced. Churches are run by humans, and humans make mistakes ….just check out the RCC and others. Your ideas for solutions are really just that, like mine, ideas. (unless JC whispers in your ear and tells you what to do…Oh right, he does). I have my own sources too. )

Cknuck…I forgot to thank you for the compliment …the “classic discription of a Pagan”. Thanks. I like that.

let’s be honest pagan you have never had a opinion about the church that is un-biased and non-prejudiced

Tell it as I see it, ck. There are exceptions for much of my thoughts, (my sisters and extended family because they are content to let me feel as I so without critical comment…) but most of my prejudice is from those that feel that they have all the answers and everyone else is wrong. That is my biggest complaint about much of religion and those that follow it. No room for others beliefs. There are many on these boards that are exceptions to my feelings too, and can understand others points of view.

pagan read carefully, you are in agreement with those who share your criticisms about Christianity, I among many folk in the real world don’t but as much as I disagree with you I never lampooned your religion as much as you do mine. So you are not as open as you would like to believe.

Pagan,
I too am not “pushy” with my family who has rejected Jesus as Lord and Saviour. I did at one time too, so I understand the mindset. I also understand that it is GOD working in a person’s heart that brings them to His Son Jesus………it is not “religion or being brought up in a “Christian” home that does it. I was not brought up by Christians, though we did go to church sometimes (various denominations).
However, you said your sisters are devout Christians. Being devout, then you also know what they believe about your salvation status, right? They believe if you reject Jesus as Lord and Savior you are going to spend eternity when you die (or when He comes, whichever happens first), in torment for your rejection of Him. Does this bother you your sisters believe this about your “end state” if you continue down the path you are on?
Concerning Jesus being a “good/great” teacher: it makes me wonder how people who reject Him as Lord/Saviour can say such a thing when they reject much of what He taught? If what He taught is a lie to you(that He is the ONLY way to the Father and that all who reject Him have God’s wrath abiding on them), than how can He be a “good” teacher? Wouldn’t you believe He is a liar instead?

LB, many folks find Jesus a good/great teacher, without worshiping him as a savior or agreeing with everything he taught. He had some good advise, but so do alot of religious teachers. His dad isn’t my dad.
As to my sisters and their opinions of my “afterlife” or lack of it. My youngest sister sees my spiritual side, understands where I’m coming from and has no problems. The next youngest does worry, doesn’t seem to understand me as well. I have assured her I’m not worried about it, and she shouldn’t either. She probably still does. I can’t help that. I can’t start to believe in something that I don’t find believable just to make her happy. So when the 3 of us are together, we’re fine. I attend church with both of them (they live in 2 differnt states from me)when I visit, find it fine, just don’t do the creeds etc. since I would be lying.

cknuck: You never lampooned my religion? No? You remind me frequently that I’m close to demonic, or being in cahoots with that imaginary creation. )

No I don’t usually comment on any other religion (think about my post) I do comment on your comments about my religion and the fact that you don’t really have a Christian perspective because you are a self admitted pagan.

My prospective can be more objective since I’m not bound by the constrains of being Christian, cknuck. Yes, I’m a self admitted Pagan….it floats my boat just like your beliefs float yours.

pagan what people like you and nnmns unfortunately for you cannot realize is that you have absolutely no perspective of God, because you don’t seek Him nor can you realize anything greater than you. God will not reveal Himself to such a person He is well aware of your heart. On the other hand those who seek Him earnestly and fervently He will reveal hints of Himself. God is so great their is no one so holy that they can take Him all in. Of course this will make no sense to you, you have no perspective.

My perspective of your Being is just that..mine. Yours is yours. You really have no idea of what my perspective is, actually. That judgement is off the mark. I haven’t lived as long as I have without checking out things to see if it makes sense to me. So far,in my 60th decade, it hasn’t. I can’t seek something that to me doesn’t exist. If he/she is checking me out…fine. As to my greatness? I’m just a regular person. I’ll continue to appreciate this earth and the things that are on it until my spirit leaves.

fair enough, and I am sorry for presuming on your perspective I just compiled a few of your post I remembered and drew a conclusion. by the way you are way younger than 60 decades, more like 6. We are the same age and if you are anything like my wife you’re probably pretty cute us baby boomers aged pretty well.

I answered your last post last night and it got “chosen” for review, which means it will never show up again, I suspect, cknuck. So if it does, what I say where will be repeated. Oh well.
First, math has was never my best subject…so you’re right, I’m in my 6th decade, not 60th! Weren’t there some really old folks in the OT, one who fathered a child at 400 or something? Don’t think I’ll make it that far.
I also agree that we “baby boomers” tend to be aging well. As for “cute”. thanks for the thought, but I’m sure that doesn’t apply to me!:o)