And this kind of abusive treatment is so vital to those who claim gays are made, not born, and can be unmade.

Of course, the supporters of Proposition Straight would fear this man’s testimony. The “ex-gay” crowd would love you to think they’re out to help people. But the fact is they’re out to help some very insecure heteros deny reality.
And the poor guy’s parents…further proof that we ought to be giving out parenting licenses. Yeah, homos are baaaad people, unlike the morally upstanding mother who wishes her gay son would die.

What a sad story. It amazes me how some radical Christians still believe that conversion therapy is an acceptable practice. Instead, it’s a form of abuse and is morally repugnant. I do hope that we start treating others with tolerance and compassion like Jesus did.

There was a bumper sticker or something of that sort from many years ago that said something along the lines of…
“I’m Created by God, and God doesn’t make junk.”
Creation is filled with diversity and that should be celebrated and not forced to comply with some human fantasy of uniformity. This whole “reversal” therapy thing is so much bunk and wishful thinking. Love is not a weapon or a tool – it is a way of being and living. Learn to love and enjoy the wide range of possibilities present in the world.

Any “parent” who makes their kid go thru this is the one that should burn in hell – and probably will.
And I second that emotion about needing a license to have a child.

Fanatical religiously people hurt people in so many ways it’s a crime. The boy (16) in Oregon, at trial the parents right now, for his death because they refused to take him to the medical world with his health problem. The GLBT children being abused in so many ways because of the parents beliefs in their religion. It can’t be ignored by thinking people anymore, it has to stop. Telling your child that you hate him, and wish you had aborted him, and he is going to burn in hell is appalling! Sending children to equally fanatical religious places for sex-changes is ridiculous. Why do these people think they know more than the established Medical Authorities? Because they are entirely brain-washed, just like Jones and his flock that killed themselves.

His Mom sounds like a real “winner”, telling a child that she wished she had aborted him. Isn’t that against the “Christian” rules and ranks right up there with being “gay”? “Sinful?”
IMO, a mother who truely loves her child…male or female, loves them for who they are…and if they are gay, so what? My children are both heterosexual, but if either one was homosexual, I’d still love and accept them…they are my children. I just don’t understand.
As for making a person “hetersexual” by sending them to therapy? BUNK, as one poster(jestrfyl?) above said.

ps you are a much better person than some of these “good Christians”.

Thanks, nnmns, but I’m just a Mom who loves her children just the way they are…

This is just a diversionary tactic, there is just as many people who struggled with homosexuality that can say that the treatment worked for them, it is fact and the only way you can ignore the successful outcomes is if you have a bend and are not objective. I know former homosexuals it has worked for and are happily married with kids, and i know some who it has not worked for but are happy abstaining and I know practicing homosexual. The case should not be based on this emotional dribble.

We’ve read of others with similar stories. This reversal therapy nonsense has apparently hurt a lot of people and I’m not aware of any objective tests that show it actually works.

Reversal therapy reminds me of the time when children who were naturally left handed were forced to learn to write with their right hands. Trying to make someone “straight” makes no more sense than that did.

pagansister: “Reversal therapy reminds me of the time when children who were naturally left handed were forced to learn to write with their right hands. Trying to make someone ‘straight’ makes no more sense than that did.”
Now, ps, that’s not entirely fair. You see, trying to convert left handed people was based on outdated superstitions, whereas opposition to homosexuality is based on the belief that an invisible entity with supernatural powers will eternally punish everyone who doesn’t follow his huge book of rules. So…yeah…two totally different things.

Actually a lot of opposition to homosexuality has nothing to do with religion and what many fail to realize it is not only religious people who disagree with the unhealthy behavior.

Mordred08:
Outdated superstition may have had something to do with converting (or trying to) a left handed child to use the right hand, but when I think of religion…I think of a lot of superstition also. So in my way of thinking, there is a simular situation….only much more extreme for the “reveresal” of a homosexual person to that of hetersosexual. Being born left handed wasn’t considered as “bad” as “unhealthy behavior” is considered by some. Hell is reserved for homosexuality, wonder what is was for those who were left handed?

PS, I looked on Bing to see why Christians back years ago spanked their children for using their left hands and this is what I came up with. For thousands of years the Devil has been associated with the left-hand and the pictures of the Devil are usually portrayed as being left-handed. The right hand in Christianity gives the blessing and makes the sign of the cross. The bible has 100 favorable references to the right hand, and 25 unfavorable ones to the left hand. Evil spirits lurk over the left shoulder. I wonder if 50 yrs. from now people will be checking out the new strange things that Christians did and do no more.

H, are you on a crusade to make Christians look like fools?

Are you against truth? Are you really admitting making decisions based on the Bible can lead to foolishness?
I take away points based on your ethics but give you points for honesty, even if it was unintended.

nnmns I don’t know what yo are talking about but I guess it don’t matter as long as it is against the bible and Christians. I know plenty of good decisions made based on the bible, and plenty of good people who believe in it.

Thanks for the info, Henrietta. Interesting stuff. )

Interesting indeed. Thanks.

“H, are you on a crusade to make Christians look like fools? “
ck, you do a good enough job of that all by yourself.

ck,
“there is just as many people who struggled with homosexuality that can say that the treatment worked for them”
Then why haven’t they come out publicly and said so? Not a single one has.
“it is fact”
FActs can be proven, ck. They have consistently failed to give any proof whatsoever.
“and the only way you can ignore the successful outcomes”
Any “successful outcomes” out there are encouraged to come forward publicly and tell their provable stories.
Still waiting after all these years …

grumpy pay attention they have and are all the time, keep up and stop making silly claims

H I had a left handed foster brother and the reasons that the “doctor” not Christian tried to help him switch to right hand is because most things are made for right handed users and it had nothing to do with being Christian.
You have had a “intersting” meal of Christians sharing it with your atheist dinner guest and pagan so don’t try to refute it when i bring up your eating habits.

Oh yeah my brother as a result can play guitar with both hands he is amazing the training paid off big time and he is Muslim.

cknuck, when did Henrietta say that only Christians had punished left handed children years ago in order to make them right handed? Expect some “non-Christian” (as you brought up) doctors as well as Christian ones had what they considered good reason to make a kid change from left to right handed dominance. Fortunately that isn’t done any more…not by anyone in their right mind, anyhow.

A friend of mine had ALL of the bones in his left hand broken by a rod used on him by nuns in his Catholic school. This waas not “training” as ck euphemized. It was assult. By ‘Christians’. Just as aversion therapy is assault, and it, too, is primarily employed on queers by ‘Christians’.
As for ck’s (demonstrably) false claim that “pay attention they have and are all the time” [been successful in converting gays to str8hood] I would gladly pay him $1000.00 out of my own pocket for each and every ‘successful’ conversion made. Since thtere have been NO such provable conversions, my money is, and always will be safe.

grump, I don’t know what happen to your friend and I doubt all the bones in his hand was broken here in the U.S.
I fortunately don’t need your money but you would lose it out of sheer stupidity if I did bet. You don’t even realize that you have been talking to just such a person in R. Goldberg. I realize senility sets in and being a grumpy old person may be one of the first signs so I’ll let you off the hook. Read a book http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a714042841&db=all

“you have been talking to just such a person in R. Goldberg”
You are so wrong. Goldberg himself even admits he has “struggled all his life with homosexuality” (is STILL struggling, apparently, denying the way God created him – what a shame) – he has NEVER been “cured” or “healed” or “reversed” his natural attraction to the same sex, not unlike yourself, apparently. No one has.
If you have to continually resort to bearing false witness, you have already lost.

He is not dating men that is cured. Much like an alcoholic there is struggle quite a few homosexuals I know who have been successful in the reversal struggle at times. One guy admitted to feeling a struggle when he sees guys in biking outfits but he does not give in and is successful. then there are some that have no struggle at all. Don’t hate on them if you must hate.

‘Dating men’ is now a “sickness” that needs to be “cured”!?!?!?!
He is STILL same-sex attracted, whether he acts on those attractions or not, just as I am homosexual whether I act on it or not. I am attracted to other men. One either is or is not. Goldberg admits he continues to “strugle” with it (as in “all my life”). Right now, he’s just practising being a real good boy and not doin’ it.
You avoid/miss the point: any guy who “admitted to feeling a struggle when he sees guys in biking outfits” is not “successful” – he’s still attracted to those guys, even if, in your coy language, he does “not give in”. If by not giving in to one’s innate attractions you mean he’s “cured”, you’re using a foreign language or are being self-delusional. He is STILL ATTRACTED. Not my problem if he decides to subsequently “struggle with” it instead of accepting it as what God intended for him.

grump hate to bust your bubble but God did not create homosexuality it is a direct result of sin. Homosexuality has no purpose at all naturally or spiritually.

Changing your tune again, I see, ck.
This “sin” that you seem to believe in (and that you seem to think all people should believe in) – in the past, you have said that it is acting on the attraction that is sin. Homosexually attracted people (like you, R. Goldberg and Ted Haggard) have those attractions regardless of whether they act on them or not. If they do not act on them, how have they “sinned” (in your eyes) to begin with?

cknuck….”God did not create homosexuality it is a direct result of sin. Homosexuality has no purpose at all naturally or spiritually”.
That is such BS. All of that is so totally your opinion as influenced by what you have chosen to believe.

This “homosexual from birth” argument is fallacious.
The whole thing is completely confused.
Homosexuals just want to be left alone. Therefore, they like the whole discussion completely confused. Why?
Because:
1) If homosexuality is a choice, then they are responsible for their actions. And they are responsible for the effects they cause on the culture; the good and the bad. They can be held accountable. They can be said that they have made the choice. Whatever somebody wants to say about religion or God’s plan or contributing to the human race, it boils down to it being a choice and therefore they are responsible for the effects.
OR
2) If homosexuality is something from birth, then it’s a genetic thing. Now, if it’s a genetic thing, then that means that there’s something wrong with homosexuals and that could be used as an argument to treat them; involuntarily perhaps. Needles, tests, gene therapy or whatever some crazy researcher wants to come up with will be subjected to the poor homosexual born with “bad” genes.
Neither of these scenarios are what the homosexual is interested in. Because if one or the other is firmly nailed down, there would be certain consequences for them. And like I said before, they aren’t interested in those consequences. They just want to be left alone to practice their homosexuality.
Personally, it’s number 1 in my book. The guy who likes children. The guy who likes animals. The guy who likes other guys. They have a choice. And their actions reflect that choice. They have chosen their lifestyle just the same as the other guy who likes animals or the guy that likes to deliver pain from birth; no difference.
And there’s no evidence whatsoever that genes affect human sexuality, just a great big ball of red herrings woven to confuse; look into them from a critical eye and observe the fallacies glaring back. I’ve watched over the years one “breakthrough” after another and when I look into it, “We’ve found that 50% of homosexuals have this gene.” Uhh… Riiight.. You’re saying that half of the guys have this gene. Can’t you find a gene that 100% of homosexuals have? Their answer is, “No, but we’re looking for it and we’re so close to finding it!” I say that they are looking for a pebble in a shoe when it’s really in the sock…

Jacob,
“If homosexuality is a choice, then they are responsible for their actions. “
That is a fallacious ‘argument’. We are all of us always responsible for our actions. Replace the word ‘homosexual’ with ‘heterosexual’ in that sentence and you’ll see how wrong your ‘conclusion’ is: “If heterosexuality is a choice, then they [heterosexuals] are responsible for their actions.” Just plain silly. Or IS heterosexuality merely a “lifestyle” “choice”?
Likewise this: “If homosexuality is something from birth, then it’s a genetic thing.” Same faulty illogic. Try: “If heterosexuality is something from birth, then it’s a genetic thing.”
Too funneee.
“Now, if it’s a genetic thing, then that means that there’s something wrong with homosexuals”
Huh? Why “wrong”? Is there something “wrong” with left handed people just because they’re different from the statistical norm? Is there something “wrong” with red-headed people because they’re not blondes? Why does different = “wrong” in your eyes?
“that could be used as an argument to treat them; involuntarily perhaps”
The only people who want to “treat” (i.e. ‘cure’) gay people are homophobes. And those that want to ‘treat’/'cure’ gays involuntarily are called the ‘Christian’ right.
“They just want to be left alone to practice their homosexuality.
“
I’ve never seen someone who is SO misinformed be so apparently proud of their ignorance.
We do not want to be left alone to “practice” homosexuality anymore than heterosexuals want to be left alone to practice their heterosexuality. We want to be left alone so we can live our lives, and so that we can be treated equally under the law (you know, the way the Constitution sez we should be able to live our lives, the way America used to promise “liberty and justice for ALL”, the way the right to “liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ used to be ‘guaranteed’ to all citizens, not just the (self-)righteous ones.
“The guy who likes children. The guy who likes animals.”
The law says that neither children nor animals can legally consent to sexual relationships. WE discuss mutually consenting, adult, HUMAN relationships. Your side can only ‘discuss’ child-molestation (i.e. rape) and screwing animials. It’s no wonder your side is not believed much anymore. You can’t even discuss the topic without bearing false witness about your ‘opposition’. Speaking of ‘weaving to confuse’ – you seem to be an expert in that.
Thanx 4 playin’ but you’re gonna have to come up with BETTER if you’re gonna have a modicum of believability.