Benny isn’t stupid…the more folks you get the more money you get in the coffers…even if you have to start letting in “failed” Catholics AKA Anglicans (who have “seen the light, of course by joining the RCC).

To further dialog even more, the Anglicans should make it really easy for some Catholics to convert to Anglism. No doubt the Pope would be ecstatic about that.

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jim, I wouldn’t advise pissing off this b-net bunch, you are a known, they are anonymous.
nnmns and pagsan so there is no way the pope could be genuine? or is it just you two that may be challenged in your prejudices against the guy?

Ah, the unknown cknuck. Anyone who’s watched the Pope objectively has an idea how genuine he is or isn’t.

nnmns,
It already is extremely easy for a Catholic to convert to Anglicanism. The very Anglicans that the Pope has reached out to here lately are themselves mostly Anglo-Catholics, people who are already almost Catholic in their doctrine and practice, and many of whom have long wanted some kind of closer union with Rome. It really doesn’t take much at all for a Catholic to become an Anglican, especially one of the Anglo-Catholic stripe.

Just how objective is your eye nnmns? Reflect deeply, examine your motives, think carefully about your mindset, is there something that eliminates you from objectivity? I await your honest answer.

nnmns isn’t objective in the slightest. I’ve have connections with a few people who have actually known the Pope, and all the reports I’ve gotten is that he’s a pretty genuine, pretty decent guy, whatever you think about his ideas. And yet some nnmnns thinks he can sit there 5,000 miles away and be better able to judge the man’s character based on a few news reports than people who have lived at the Vatican.
Being objective isn’t his goal. His only interest is to bash the Catholic Church any chance he gets, which is why I, no big fan of Catholicism, feel the constant need to defend it when I come around here.

Nate W: “I’ve have connections with a few people who have actually known the Pope, and all the reports I’ve gotten is that he’s a pretty genuine, pretty decent guy, whatever you think about his ideas.”
I think that when a man’s ideas include “sexual preferences I don’t like are just as bad as what’s making the ice caps melt” and “I’d speak out against the murder of gay people in third-world countries, but that could be construed as supporting bestiality or pedophilia, so I won’t”…at that point a man loses the privilege to call himself “pretty decent”.
“His only interest is to bash the Catholic Church any chance he gets, which is why I, no big fan of Catholicism, feel the constant need to defend it when I come around here.”
We aren’t any harder on Catholicism than we are on any other major religion that makes mistakes affecting the real world. Maybe we do tend to bring up that whole sex abuse scandal thing a lot, but it doesn’t help that the Catholic response is usually to attack the victims as “anti-Catholic” for speaking out, then wring their hands and say “Why’s everybody always pickin’ on me?”

Well said Mordred.
In answer to your rather personal and insulting question (but that’s not unusual for you) cknuck, none of us is completely objective; we all filter our view of the world based on past experiences. But I’m more objective than some people because my mind isn’t clouded with belief in fantastical stories and I haven’t been trained since childhood to believe things with all my heart based on no evidence they are true.
Now as far as the pope, at times I’ve praised him, for instance when he’s spoken out on our environmental problems. I notice I get no credits for that from you papal defenders.
But when it comes to the RCC’s and his “Holiness’s” abysmal record on protection of child abusers and lack of concern for the children at times entrusted to them, and other very major ethical lapses they swept under the rug till they couldn’t, I fail to see how you guys can excuse such things. But apparently your inherent respect for authority gets in the way of your objectivity. Or maybe your dislike for people who point out a few of the failings of religion clouds your objectivity.
In either case, you both should work on that.

Benny is “genuine” when it is to his and the RCC’s advantage. Yes, cknuck, the RCC does many good things, as do the many RC’s I was blessed to work with. But when the RCC pushes its’ beliefs while helping folks, or denies condoms (or birth control education) to lessen the burden of some poor women in poor countries or help in reducing the spread of AIDS etc.then what little caring I have for Benny and the RCC is reduced. Like I said, Benny isn’t stupid…more members, more $$.

nnmns so I questioned your objectivity and I am a mean fellow. I have not been trained in childhood or otherwise and I am not catholic but it is easy to see your lack of objectivity when it comes to the catholic church or any other Christian representation. A organization so big as the Catholic church is going to have some problems and some organizations have their challenges when dealing with people attracted to them because of certain sexual persuasions. In all the Catholic church does a good job with education, compassion and rescue. They mainly anger mordred because of their stance on homosexuality and pagan, they speak against condoms they don’t produce them so they can’t deny anybody a condom although I could be wrong.

cknuck you can say a thing over and over (and you do!) but that doesn’t make it true. I have, as I said, praised the pope and the RCC at times when they deserved it. And I’ve praised other Christian groups when they’ve deserved it. But all too often the behavior described in the articles we get is not praiseworthy.
You seem to have decided that since you can’t answer our criticisms you’ll claim they are just due to prejudice. Well people can read for themselves and they’ll see your claims are nonsense. As is so often the case.

“They mainly anger mordred because of their stance on homosexuality”
They mainly anger mordred because of their support for the murder of homosexuals and bisexuals (or their lack of opposition to it, which is pretty much the same thing). Compared to that, their insistence on interfering in our personal lives (along with the Mormons, evangelicals, Orthodox Jews, etc.) seems like a minor flaw. The fact that they aren’t actively trying to kill us like Muslims and Christians in some backwards countries (Iran, Pakistan, Nigeria, Uganda, etc.) isn’t much to brag about.
Of course, the conservative Anglicans seem to agree with the Catholics on this issue, so I have no problem with the Pope trying to recruit them. They deserve each other, really.

cknuck, no, the RCC doesn’t “produce”condoms, it just doesnt’ allow their organizations to give them out to help the poor women in poor countries (or any other place for that matter) to prevent AIDS or pregnancy for a woman who already can’t afford yet another child. I know, she needs self control. Whatever! So, yes, the do “deny” the use of condoms…after all “EVERY sperm is sacred”.

nnmns the whole “all to often” thing says it all concerning you, its a untrue ratio, its only purpose is to fuel your bias.
mordred you actually want the RCC to carry the banner of homosexuality for you, unrealistic, and they certainly are not murdering homosexuals.
pagan I think my sperm is pretty special, maybe not sacred. But seriously I see your point but surely you can’t expect them to start pushing condoms given thier beliefs.

No, cknuck, the RCC wouldn’t dare break the rules ( to give out condoms) after a million years of “tradition”. )
The sperm quote is from a song from one of the movies done by Monty Python.

cknuck:” nnmns the whole “all to often” thing says it all concerning you, its a untrue ratio”
Just what ratio is “all too often”, cknuck, and wouldn’t even one example of Christians behaving badly be one too many? Or are your expectations of Christians fairly low?

nnmns I know you know it is not the norm as you suggest but like most people who prize a prejudice hold on with all your might to anything that will fuel your hate passion.

pagan I love Monty Python, what wonderful days.

“anything that will fuel your hate passion”
You don’t begin to know me and certainly not well enough to accuse me of something like that. You are going around the bend.

“mordred you actually want the RCC to carry the banner of homosexuality for you, unrealistic”
I don’t want a bunch of theocrats and rapists carrying anything for me. I’d like them to clean up their own house and stay out of mine.
“they certainly are not murdering homosexuals”
No, they just support it with their silence, like I said. Read what I say before you comment on it, or don’t bother commenting on it at all.

I fail to see how the Church’s handling of the sex abuse issue has much to do with Benedict’s openness to Anglo-Catholics joining the Church. Attack him when he handles sex criminals wrongly, yes, but why does that mean that he has to have some kind of evil ulterior motive when he makes it easier for people who are already almost Catholic to come into full fellowship with the Catholic Church.
Sure, you might have a couple nice words to say when the Pope does something that lines up with your own agenda, but your critiques of the papacy and Catholicism would be a whole lot more convincing if you didn’t bash the Pope nine times out of ten that anything comes up here about him, even when it’s something that should be a total non-issue for you. (I mean, seriously, why do any of you critics care about the Pope’s relationship to Anglo-Catholics or to the Episcopal Church as a whole?)

Nate quote, ” (I mean, seriously, why do any of you critics care about the Pope’s relationship to Anglo-Catholics or to the Episcopal Church as a whole?)”
They don’t, it just seems like a blood lust or something. It’s so sad.
Recently there was a church group really struggling right down the street from and it became a Catholic church/school and it is so busy, so many people it is community once again and I am happy for it. It is such a positive thing.

“why do any of you critics care about the Pope’s relationship to Anglo-Catholics or to the Episcopal Church as a whole?”
Why do any of you care whether someone totally unrelated to you has an abortion? It has nothing to do with you and no-one writing here or reading here or tugging at the knee of anyone reading here will ever be aborted. No people are ever aborted, just the occasional bzef.
And why would I care what happens to homosexuals? I’m not one. But homosexuals are humans and I do care what happens to humans. And the Pope, in these particular efforts is indirectly making life a little harder for them.
And he advocates very bad policies about reproduction (they made more sense when the RCC was founded, in a much emptier world, but it’s hard to change positions chiseled into religious dogma). So I guess I point out where his policies are lacking sense or morality.
Why, cknuck, do you attack people here so often? We have no influence over you.

bitter, bitter, bitter. I just like interrupting your dinning nnmns

Yes, cknuck, Monty Python was a large part of our lives a long time ago. My kids (who are now grown as you know) memorized many of the skits etc. They laughed every time they saw the skits, no matter how many times they viewed them…same with the movies!

“I just like interrupting your dinning nnmns”
While you are attacking me you aren’t doing any actual damage, so keep it up.

“Always look on the bright side of life!” What a way to return to the “I’m here for an argument” B’net commentaries! Anything that starts with Monty Python has to be headed in the better direction!
Glad to be back – the cruise was great.
And what better place the the Circus Religious! B16 is playing clown for the Anglican side while the Piscolpians are walking the tightrope overhead. All we need are the trained beasts – theologians and church politicans – and the circus is complete.
“Come Join the Circus like you wanted to – when you were a kid” (from Barnum, the musical)

Good seeing your post, jestrfyl. Cruise? Glad you enjoyed it…I have yet to go on one.

Glad you are back j and glad you enjoyed yourself.
And I hope you missed that crummy weather in Florida.