According to Jim Campbell, an ADF lawyer: “It makes no sense to impose a radical change in marriage on the people of California before all appeals on their behalf are heard.”
Actually, what makes no sense is the attempt to deny law-abiding, tax-paying, American citizens their equal-right to marriage.
Over-turning Prop 8 in non-invasive and does not “impose” marriage on anyone. Individuals are still free to marry or not as they wish. OTOH, Prop 8 imposed the religious beliefs of some upon all. And/or imposed the discriminatory/prejudicial/bigoted beliefs of some upon all. (Please note, I am not suggesting that everyone who opposes marriage-equality is discriminatory/prejudiced/bigoted….I complete acknowledge some have deep-rooted religious beliefs based on their understanding of God’s will.)
In any case, since Prop8 is not/was not church law but rather state law….religious beliefs have no bearing on the matter.
Peace!

Bigotry’s Little Big Horn is underway!

Actually many people who voted for prop 8 are not Christians nor do they attend church, they know what is right and what is wrong. Homosexuals have developed a strong concerted effort of changing the way that marriage has and should be.

It’s my impression most of them were Christians. Or Mormons or some fundamentalist Hebrews or such. But they certainly thought they knew right from wrong. And they were wrong about the wrong.

People who believe that they know right from wrong are almost always wrong.

Charles Cosimano, you are right. It’s the ones that are so certain of their rightness that are the scariest.

What is a government governed by the people called? A democracy. With one decision this judge has reversed the effort of our founders back to a monarchy. Nice, ignore millions of voters

Why should our freedom be up for a vote? I work a 40 hour week and pay my taxes just like a good citizen should, but every time I turn around I’m told “you can’t do this, you can’t do that” because of some bible verse or some ridiculous conspiracy theory. I live in a state where I could be fired if people found out about my orientation. But I suppose that’s okay, seeing as millions of voters haven’t said no to it.

Mordred a little over dramatization goes a long way in unrealistic nonsense no one gets fire in any state because of sexual orientation anymore than persons of the same sex being entitled to marriage as a right as a part of the constitution. Only a total idiot would believe that the constitution should be used to support such folly.

cknuck: “no one gets fire in any state because of sexual orientation”
That’s bull and you know it.
“Only a total idiot would believe that the constitution should be used to support such folly.”
Only an idiot would believe no one’s ever been fired for being homosexual. Especially down here in redneck country.

This is most excellent. The wrong here is the fact that Prop 8 was even put on a ballot! Equality isn’t something to be voted on, it is guaranteed by the statement “all men are created equal” not some men or women are more equal than others. For some here, that should ring true. Civil Rights fight sound familiar? That was the same thing, some folks were considered more equal than others, and some actually based that assumption on The Book. Slavery was supported by The Book. Does anyone think that if Civil Rights was put to a vote in the 1960′s that it would have passed? Think about it.
cknuck, do you really believe no one has ever been fired because of their sexual orientation???

yes pagan I believe that we live in a day and age that the penalties for firing someone for sexual orientation is so severe that it is not something that a level headed person would do. Also the bible if you knew anything about it does not support slavery although it does give instructions of wisdom of how a salve should behave and a owner should behave. Civil rights were about men and women having the right to be men and women not about the right to sexual freedoms in which a man could force people to accept him as a woman or that same-sex unions would be the same as traditional and right marriage. Get a clue there are many human diversions that are accepted but not pushed as normal.

cknuck: “the bible if you knew anything about it does not support slavery although it does give instructions of wisdom of how a salve should behave and a owner should behave.”
Saying that providing a code of conduct for slaves and slave owners doesn’t support slavery is one of the most incredible case of double talk I’ve heard on this site.
And I don’t want to be accepted as “normal” (which frankly comes off as an insult when I see some of the people who are accepted as “normal”). But I do expect human beings to be treated like human beings, whether they conform to Christian standards or not.

I’ll say it real simple for you M: when God created man and woman (His design for living) there were no slaves. Slavery is a human developed system. By the way I’m glad you are satisfied not being normal.

cknuck, slavery was a fact of life in Biblical times, thus it was considered fine and dandy in this country by some because it was in THE Book. Strange that.
Civil rights are about 2 adults, no matter the gender combination, being able to marry. Marriage ceremonies can be totally religion free, so why would you and yours who think it is “owned” by some religions have anything to say about it? Fortunately there are some faiths that understand that adults of the same gender have the right to not only marry but can do so in a religious setting. Basically however, religion has nothing to do with a legal commitment by 2 people to MARRY. This entitles them to the same rights as heterosexuals get upon marriage. Right now, many of those rights are denied to same gender couples with civil unions.
No comment on your favorite subject, that of a person whose body isn’t a reflection of who they really are. They deserve equal treatment also. No one is “forcing ” you to do anything.
Equal rights are just that, equal, not based your version of “equal”. As I’ve said many times, married homosexuals have absolutely nothing to do with what you do daily. You claim to have felt discrimination, well that should help you understand what others feel.

Actually that’s your definition of civil rights not the intention of the passing of the Act. One day and rightfully so someone can contest that if marriage no longer pertains to one man one woman then it is their civil right to marry a group of people or any other sentient lifeforms. As for my “favorite” abnormality it speaks fir itself outside of our modern decadence it is unsustainable. No argument on the slavery point.

cknuck, you mentioned that someday someone will contest that if marriage no longer pertains to ONE man ONE woman then it is their civil right to marry a group of people. Some in the FLDS group have already done that. ) They feel that they can have bunches of wives, due to Joseph Smith and his (lunatic) visions.
Do you think that the Civil Rights bill of the 1960′s would have passed if it had been put out to the public for a vote? This is a serious question, cknuck. Just curious what your opinion is on that. Personally, I feel it would have been voted down, given the feelings in the south.

What would have been your vote pagan?
What makes FLDS (lunatics) and GLBT not?

My vote? Yes, but I feel it still wouldn’t have passed. Unfortunately I wasn’t 21 so couldn’t have voted. Had to be 21 in those days.
FLDS folks wish to marry young girls off at the whim of their “hallowed” leader.(s) to old dudes to perpetuate their “faith”. GLBT want what should rightfully be theirs, the right to marry someone they love, just like heterosexuals. That is a right, secular if not in a religious setting. The judge who lifted Prop. 8 said it perfectly. That can be reread, if you don’t remember.
The lunatic visions were referring to J. Smith, “hallowed” leader that started LDS church. What is unfortunate is that the break off branch of the LDS church, FLDS, feels they don’t have to follow the rules of the USA, and can have multiple wives, (no matter what age). Some other countries still allow that but we don’t.

I feel the vote would have passed pagan but it was not about changing the basic way we view man and woman just race.

Since it was never put to the vote I hope you are correct, cknuck. We will never know.
JUST race? Interesting to hear you put it that way.
Gay and lesbian marriage rights are about just that, equal rights, not Just Race. There were a lot of basic ways that those of color were viewed and unfortunately there are those that still feel those of color are inferior. To say that the civil rights finally granted Blacks was JUST RACE seems to make it sound trivial. Granting everyone of consent the RIGHT to marry is just as important as the civil rights proclamation was, IMO. Time to change those “basic ways of viewing men and women. No one requires you or those who think like you to change your mind, just don’t try to stop others from doing so.

Now how on earth could I “stop others” that’s just a purposeful piece of propaganda that people promoting the homosexual agenda uses against those of us who know it is not right. There’s no way I can stop others. Yes all of the hate perpetrated on African Americans was just about race/color I’m not trivializing anything, trying your reverse argument skills out? I know I was there, it is you that trivialize my heritage when you equate homosexual agendas with African American history. A homosexual white male has the right to be a man they just want to be something else, we African American males did not have that basic right. Homosexuals want to change marriage we just wanted to participate in it as it stands. Our men wanted to be men and our women women, not so with the homosexual community some men want to be women and some women men. We were brought, bred, hobbled, whipped, raped, legally killed, lynched, denied education, castrated, burned and bombed. Homosexual live not in fear of mass murder here in the U.S.A. When you talk about homosexuals wanting to change the way people honor marriage and compare it to our history, now that trivializing.

No black men are homosexuals, cknuck? No Black men may want a gender change, cknuck? Guess that is because ALL Black men are Macho Men!!
Please, you really expect me to believe that? Referring to your statement that “Our men wanted to be men and our women women ……” That is so totally laughable, because you know that isn’t true. Same for Black women, no lesbians or those who desire a gender change? Again, so not true. Both White men and women and Black men and women want to be themselves, not what someone else thinks they should be.
Am so not putting down the problems your ancestors had being brought over from the Dark Continent against their will etc. (sold by their fellow Africans to the White slavers) for way too long. (I know, YOU WERE THERE). Well guess what, GLBT have not exactly been treated “gently” by those who feel there is something wrong with them, because they don’t happen to fall into some religious views of masculinity or femininity. How can you change that? By not voting to deny the right to marry to those adults of the same gender. Actually there just needs to be a law passed like the civil rights bill to allow marriage to ALL, just to stop the stupidity of things like Prop. 8.

pagan you are soo funny, you go off on these tangents with misinformation. I never said that homosexuality is peculiar to one race or another that’s just a ridiculous straw man argument. “Dark Continent”? what kind of remark is that? a slip of the pen of your real thoughts? All slaves were not sold by Africans that’s a lie to try to make Africans look more complicit in the horrible act of slavery in America. Prop 8 was not stupid, it was a vote process in which the America public spoke it’s opinion and that is simply that marriage should be one man one woman and remain that way. 7 million people thought that way and the judge should have yielded to the American voting process. we are trying to convince corrupt counties that the voting process is right when we can’t stick to it ourselves, that’s sad.

Hey! cknuck, you’re the one who said “our men wanted to be men and our women women” not me. Impression is that there are no homosexuals in the Black race. Just pulled my comments off what you wrote.
Think there is a book, or perhaps some books, that have referred to Africa as the dark continent. Just a term that came to mind when I was writing. And obviously I know that men and women were captured and sold to slavers by those other than their fellow Africans.
I stick by my statement about Prop.8. As to the “people speaking”? As I said before, the marriage for same gender couples should just be made into law like the civil rights law. Even though you think people would have said yes, having lived in Alabama, I don’t think it would have passed there or in any southern state, which would have messed up what was needed to pass it in the States. I know you “lived it” but I too was a person who heard and watched the behavior and heard the opinions in Alabama at that time. Like I said, just my opinion. Equal rights aren’t negotiable.

When a orange wants to be a orange it enjoys the equal rights of all oranges but when a orange what to be an apple only a fool would say that is right. not saying you are a fool I don’t think that, just dramatizing to make a point.

GAY PEOPLE DON’T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT CHILDREN; THAT’S WHY THEY USE THEM TO FURTHER THEIR AGENDA. TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE IS A LEARNED BEHAVIOR AND SO GAY MARRIAGE WOULD ONLY CONFUSE OVER 90% OF OUR CHILDREN IN THIS COUNTRY. THIS WOULD BE DANGEROUS FOR TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE BECAUSE IT WOULD ENCOURANGE EXPERIMENTATION AND FURTHER ERODE TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE. GAY MARRIAGE ISN’T HARMLESS AND WE WOULD BE FORCED TO TEACH IT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS IF LEGALIZED. WAKE UP AMERICA!!

ck,
“no one gets fire in any state because of sexual orientation”
This is a shameless, bald-faced LIE, ck. There are 30 States in which one can be fired for being – or for even being THOUGHT to be – gay in America.
Stop lying. Bearing false witness is a sin – one of the Big Ten.