Intelligence rears it’s head! Excellent.

Very good statement, they did politically stop short in a couple areas and chose omission over the truth but it is a good statement.

It’s a good start.

This group of Orthodox Jews join the Reconstructionists, Conservatives, and Reformed Jews in support of gays/lesbians. The other three all ordain and marry gays and lesbians.
The Orthodox do neither (but then, they do not ordain females as rabbi either)….but, a great step forward.
Now, if Christianity would just get in gear.
Peace!

I read respect not support JohnQ

ck,
Although the headline mentioned “support”, there isn’t a mention of that particular word in the article.
Be that as it may, you do find these words: “all human beings are created in the image of God and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect,” and that “embarrassing, harassing or demeaning homosexuals is a violation of Torah prohibitions”.
When your words match that tone, ck, we’ll care what you “read”.

It’s a start, now they have to stretch love and love their neighbor as themselves, they’ll get there eventually. Actually the Jewish Orthodox wil do it probably faster then Fundamentalist Christians. Speaking from my relationships with both.

YN if my life hung on what you care I would be in bad shape. I think that respect includes the right to disagree and point out errors so until I find that is incorrect I will continue to point out the dangers of not only homosexuality but supporting the misconceptions surrounding it, respectfully of course.

Your ‘disagreement’ makes no sense, ck. You haven’t “pointed out” ANY “dangers” of homosexuality (since there aren’t any to begin with), not any with “supporting misconceptions surrounding it”.
Just what we need, the “respect” of a nutzoid.

“Your ‘disagreement’ makes no sense, ck. You haven’t ‘pointed out’ ANY ‘dangers’ of homosexuality (since there aren’t any to begin with), not any with ‘supporting misconceptions surrounding it’.”
Oh he will. Repeatedly.

YN take Mordred’s advice I can very easily give in great detail the dangers of homosexuality.

Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.
(Change *** to www)
***-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
***.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
***.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
***.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
***.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/

Homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality.
(Change *** to www)
***.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
***.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
***.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
***.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
***.gaychristian101.com/

The National Library of Medicine pubs confirm that sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced in the first trimester of pregnancy, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, bearing no relation to an individuals ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, to work or to contribute to society.
From the American Psychological Association: homosexuality is normal; homosexual relationships are normal.
The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Asociation and American Psychiatric Asociation have endorsed civil marriage for same-sex couples because marriage strengthens mental and physical health and longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents and seniors.
America’s premier child/mental health associations endorse marriage equality.

This was taken from another poster that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don’t feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren’t human.
“I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if “Gays” have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate “(Legal Document)” of our union his mother had him cremated and his ashes taken back to Missouri where we came from. That is only one example how painful it is. His suicide tramatized me so much and her disregard for my feelings only added to my heartach. That happened on March 21 of 2007 and I still cannot type this without crying for the trauma I have to endure each day. Oh did I mention I am in an electric wheelchair for life? Yes I am and it is very diffacult to find another mate when you are 58 and in a wheelchair. “

Shadowman claims homosexuality is not a choice like skin color is not, this is erroneous information unlike skin color people make homosexual decisions everyday. people can go forever without anyone realizing that they are homosexual, not so with skin color. Guys in prison make homosexual decisions all of the time some for life. There is no way of knowing osteology, anthropology, archeology and forensically whether a person was homosexual or not, not so with race, even without skin a person’s race can be determined. The only cherry picking concerning the bible is when folk try to justify homosexual through scripture but if you can find any scripture that affirms or condones homosexuality you would have quoted it but you can’t. I can quote six that condemns homosexuality.

I’m not one you have to convince when it comes to whether homosexuality is choice or not, Shadow Man. IMO no one would choose to be discrimiated against because of their sexuality. However there are those that will never be convinced and will bring up their holy book and will find studies to try and support their side. There can be “proof” found for both sides. Common sense would dictate that no one would, as I said above, choose to be hated, criticized, beat up and sometimes killed because they love a person of the same gender.

pagan take your head out of the sand people with psych problems do all sorts of things to set themselves apart and encourage reactions, piercings, tattoos, purple hair, black fingernails even animal implants and tattoos to mimic animals. Get real.

pagan take your head out of the sand people with psych problems do all sorts of things to set themselves apart and encourage reactions, piercings, tattoos, purple hair, black fingernails even animal implants and tattoos to mimic animals. Get real.

cknuck: Notice how you could not refute any of my scientific links =) The thing is, you can’t change your sexual attraction, just like you can’t change your skin color. Of course, in your next line, you pull out irrelevant information, because you have nothing against my posts.
And go ahead and quote those 6 verses from the Bible, i will gladly prove you wrong on each one. No scripture in the Bible condemns homosexuality. Of course, you prove my point as well, as the anti-gay side can only take verses out of context without providing evidence =)
Also, since you are so bent on thinking homosexuality is a choice, let me ask you a few questions:
Are you male? (If not, reverse the questions to the other gender) If so, Are you sexually attracted to other men? Would you be able to enjoy sex with a man? Do you get sexual urges with a man? Do men turn you on sexually and emotionally? Could you be happy with a man sexually for the rest of your life?
I’m sure either i won’t be hearing from you again, or if i do, you will dodge these questions. Let’s take bets on which one it will be

chnuck wrote: “pagan take your head out of the sand people with psych problems do all sorts of things to set themselves apart and encourage reactions, piercings, tattoos, purple hair, black fingernails even animal implants and tattoos to mimic animals. Get real.”
If you’re going to troll, don’t make it so obvious I will show you why trolling fails on this subject.
For those of you that don’t know what a troll is, they basically are posters that take a side on any sensitive topic (religion, sexuality, etc) and post to rile up and anger other posters for their own satisfaction and fun. They usually dance around a central idea while ignoring all evidence (since their primary motive is to incite anger, not prove anything). Other troll behavior includes twisting your words out of context, name-calling, lying, or doing anything that may get a rise out of you.
The best way to own a troll is to get under their skin or ignore them. When a troll realizes he can’t incite anger in people and or get a rise out of them, it irks him. They keep trying, but its fun watching them in desperation as they throw everything at you trying to get any kind of rise. They lose even more, because for each troll, it gives the pro gay marriage side the chance to spread facts and information about homosexuality, to get rid of ignorance. It’s a win/win situation for us.
Remember, trolls can’t win unless they incite anger. Merely getting responses is not a successful troll, since anyone can do that. What makes trolling unique is the ability to incite anger, and without doing that, they become useless. So to all posters here, do prove them wrong with facts, but do not let them incite anger.

shadow_man-
cknuck is not a troll. He is passionate about what he believes. I in no way mean to indicate that I agree and or support most of his statement regarding sexuality and/or marriage……but, he is not a troll.
Peace!

JohnQ: Lol, dunno, but this statement here makes it pretty obvious.
“pagan take your head out of the sand people with psych problems do all sorts of things to set themselves apart and encourage reactions, piercings, tattoos, purple hair, black fingernails even animal implants and tattoos to mimic animals. Get real.”
In fact, it’s proof of trying way too hard to incite anger. I nearly laughed when i read that =P
We shall see if he answers those questions i posed, to determine if he indeed is a troll or not ^_^

Shadow_Man:
I’m used to cknuck’s responses when he disagrees, as he has been doing that for many years. He does actually believe what he is saying and his last comment to me was tame compared to some he has written. I’d say he doesn’t fall into your catagory of “troll”. As to your laughter at reading his statement? He has given me many hours of laughter. It really isn’t worth getting angry about. He is male and heterosexual.
cknuck:
Your example means that IYO, homosexuals have psych problems. Humm, guess that means my very heterosexual son who wore earrings and all black clothes,as a teen, and as an adult, has both legs covered in tatoos, means he has psychological problems? No, he is a very smart, married, successful man and father. My daughter is a very smart woman, heterosexual,married, has tatoos, a 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwan Do, and a successful business woman. So acquainting body art plus those who choose to paint their nails, color their hair pink/blue/red etc., wear certain color clothes etc. with those that have mental/psychological problems is really, really a stretch. That is like putting all people of a race/faith/ethnic group into one slot, saying they all eat pasta, watermellon, bagels, Chinese food, white bread and drive certain cars, or wear a special hat, etc. See how ridiculous implying very strongly that homosexual men and women have psychological problems? Probably not, but I thought I’d ask. The folks that you might have to watch out for are those that seem what you would describe as “normal”. They many times are off balance. Please don’t tell me that you weren’t implying what I said above, because my statement was a person wouldn’t choose to be discriminated against by choosing to be homosexual. You were the one who said that folks who did the things you mentioned had psycological problems. In my observation those that do wear different clothes, body piercings etc. aren’t discriminated against for it. It isn’t that unusual anymore.

shadowman how very typical find a name to call because you cannot find merit in your position, very much a homosexual promotional tactic. I see homosexual promoters have spent countless hours of re-interpreting the bible to explain away the fact that God did indeed call homosexuality an abomination to Him. It is a sin Sodomites are called that because of what happened at Sodom (homosexuality). the pagan activity that set them apart and caused Jesus to warn us not to be like them is homosexuality. He took some of the disciples to Caesarea at the site where the pagans there practiced sexual/homosexual activities that made even the Romans blush.
Since there is not a gene, hormone, DNA signature, chemical signature, nor is any heredity factor that identifies homosexual behavior then it must be psychological. Two homosexuals cannot make a homosexual baby so to compare homosexuality with a race is ridiculous. Of course you would call me a name (troll) how else can you respond to these very real facts logically.

It has been some time sonce I have posted here, but felt compelled to. As a man who used to practice homosexuality, but has been made whole in Christ and no longer lives that lifestyle, I feel compelled to point out that I do not believe that i was born gay, but I also do not believe that i chose to feel the way I did.
I have come to learn what propogated the feelksing that i have had and now I am filling those needs in appropriate ways rather than sexualizing them.
So there is truth being spoken from both sides of this argument. It was not a choice. But it was not at birth.

pagansister-
You have made an assumption at the end of your first paragraph that may (actually is not) the case. Think about it and many posts over the years will make much more sense.
If you don’t understand, you could go into “Forums” then “US News & Politics” where you should be able to find many of my posts….send me a private message and I will explain.
Peace!

PresentInChristt-
I am glad you have found contentment. Homosexuality is not a “lifestyle” it is one of the sexualities that is a part of the life of most humans. The three most typical are heterosexuality, bi-sexuality, and homosexuality.
Many males who have had relationships with other males and then end up with a female are bi-sexual. Males you have had relationships with other males and then no longer have sexual relationships are still homosexual…they are just not participating in one of God’s gifts to humanity…namely sex.
Regardless, I am glad you have found contentment.
Peace!

JohnQ that is your opinion certainly not fact, PresentinChrist lived his own life and you cannot present yourself as both an authority of your life and his, I know of many stories like his you cannot cancel them all out with your theories on homosexuality. No one is born that way, you simply cannot prove otherwise but I am certain I can prove that as early as 2 yrs old the sexual nature of a child can be influenced sexually. There are currently many other influences like the popularity of homosexuality there are activities like “bi-curious” or “poly-amorous” group sex to name a few. One experience with homosexuality does not capsulize all experiences much like any sin it is expedential, sin begets sin.

So cknuck, you have no response about my answer to your very large implication that those who have body art etc. have psycholocial problems? Interesting.

cknuck: Ahhh, the name-calling begins! More typical trolling behavior. You claim that my view is wrong, yet you cannot refute any of my links nor posts.
As for Sodom, let us examine why it was destroyed.
Homophobic Viewpoint: “Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality.”
Scriptural Viewpoint: Sodom was a lush beautiful region of land whose inhabitants had known the goodness of God. Despite their exposure to, experience with, and witness of the one true loving Creator, the people of Sodom had rejected a relationship with God, and turned to numerous types of idolatry. When God’s messengers were sent to the city, the men of Sodom responded by threatening the ultimate act of violent abuse, murder, disrespect and humiliation. They were going to RAPE God’s representatives.
All other Old and New Testament references to Sodom involved the sins of idolatry, inhospitality, indifference toward the poor and the rejection of God’s messengers. There are no references to same sex acts or homosexuality.
How you get homosexuality from all of that is simply laughable.

cknuck wrote: “Since there is not a gene”
Oh, looks like you didn’t read my links or evidence. Of course we know there is no “single” gene, but there is mass biological evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. And guess what, i was under the impression you were trolling, and guess what, you avoided my questions as expected, which confirms my point.
I will count how many times you dodge these. This isn’t the Sarah Palin debates where you can dodge my questions ^_^
# of times cknuck dodged my questions: 1
Are you male? (If not, reverse the questions to the other gender) If so, Are you sexually attracted to other men? Would you be able to enjoy sex with a man? Do you get sexual urges with a man? Do men turn you on sexually and emotionally? Could you be happy with a man sexually for the rest of your life?
“Of course you would call me a name (troll)”
Nobody is calling you names. I am clearly point out the actions you are trying to perform (trolling) and why it’s failing miserably

PresentInChrist: You are half-right. If you were able to be attracted to both sexes, you aren’t gay, but you also aren’t straight. You are bi-sexual. Merely being with a woman now doesn’t make you any less bi-sexual. Reparative therapy has been debunked by any credible scientific, medical, and psychological organization, which i would put far more trust into than a religious organization.

pagansister: Notice how he avoided my questions as well Confirmed troll ^_^ He made it far too obvious too early, which means he can’t incite anger =D

Your Name: He’s trying to troll. Ignore him

shadowman you name is app, you are attempting to re-write the bible to omit homosexual sins and the bible has withstood worse that you, there is no identified gene, DNA indicators or hormones that contribute to homosexuality. the whole troll thing is a tactic to avoid the truth. Sodom was involved in homosexuality why else would men gather to rape strangers outside of the fact it was socially acceptable.

JohnQ: Just to be clear, you are referring to my post on Aug. 5 at 3:06 PM? “It isn’t worth getting angry about. He is male and heterosexual.”
Or my one liner, on this article “Intelligence rears it’s head! Excellent!”.?
I tried to send you a private email from my community/member site and it wouldn’t recognize your name, JohnQ. Thus I can’t send it. (
Am going to try and get back on the community site and look up the US NEWs forum again and read your comment(s).

pagan sorry I did to respond to your “body art” inquiry, but i will now. No disrespect to your son but the infliction of body tattoos seem to come from a need to be recognized as something that we perceive people are not seeing in us. A lot of it is born of insecurities and the obsessive body marring is a psychosis. I have some tattoos myself from my military days and some I wish I didn’t. I always advise young people to be careful today’s butterfly could be tomorrow’s pterodactyl.

cknuck: OoooO, more name-calling and claims without evidence Lol your trolling continues to fail miserably ^_^

cknuck, thanks for answering. Though I disagree with your theory that those who like to have their body decorated is a symptom of a psycohosis, I appreciate your theory. My son is so NOT insecure. He has always been creative and actually came up with the ideas and drawings for many of his tatoos. He also had an extremely talented artist do his work. She won many awards, including a 2nd place for the work on one of his legs.
My daughter’s art work is by the same artist who did my son’s art work. She too created her own. I managed to have 2 creative kids, something they inherited from their grandparents, not their MOM!
I had hoped to get one tatoo, to commemorate my 50th birthday. That never happened, as the artist who did the work for my children lives in another state…not the one my children now live in. She is the only one my son trusts to do the work.
So from all that, I guess this whole family has psychological problems!! )

I find it amazing how so many people on both sides of the debate think you are experts on my life and the lives of others like myself. People can claim that reparative therapy has been debunked, and yet there are MANY like me who are living proof of how God will change a life. Therapy is just one method He will use. There are thousands of examples of people who have left the homosexual life behind and are living a heterosexual, but more importantly, holy life. The biggest challenge we will face in this discussion is a viewpoint on whether or not homosexuality is considered a sin. Based upon what I have read here so far, we will have to agree to disagree.
I do not believe anyone is born homosexual. As I have said before, I also do not believe that it is a conscious choice to have the feelings and desires either. However, as a Born Again Christian desiring to live as Christ would have me live, I choose to follow God and make decisions every day to act on desires, temptations, thoughts, etc or to not act on them. Sexuality is just one part of that.
Many of the studies that people refer to regarding a gene, or evidence of being “born gay” have been debunked as well. The science was not there.
People can debate the theoretical issue of change all you want, but you can NOT dispute a changed life.
Interestingly, I do agree with Shadowman on the issue of Sodom to a certain extent. Homosexuality was just one of the sins that are referenced as an example of what resulted when Sodom turned away from God.

PresentinChrist, first let me say with God all things are possible. I hope I did not offend you when I gave my opinion. My opinion is based on the relationships I have been blessed to have with other people who were delivered from homosexuality. Some enjoy healthy heterosexual lives and some have been blessed with the gift of abstinence and God is their sufficiency. It is really good to read your posts.