Prayer, Plain and Simple

Prayer, Plain and Simple

Lutherans Endure God’s Judgment of Silence

posted by Mark Herringshaw

The freak tornado struck at 2:00 PM, on Wednesday, August 19, 2009, but the majority did not heed the warning. Nearly a year later, The ELCA has ordained 7 openly gay pastors. This time, God is silent… Silence is a far more terrifying judgment.

Tornado.jpg

11 Months ago delegates to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America convention had gathered at the Minneapolis Convention Center to vote on a controversial sexuality statement that would pave the way for the resolution endorsing the ordination of non-celibate homosexuals as ELCA clergy. Just moments before the debate and vote, storm sirens blared. A rogue tornado, missed by weather forecasters suddenly descended from the clouds and headed straight toward the assembly.

Witnesses reported sensing an eerie, palpable fear settle over the 1045 voting delegates locked in the room. ELCA President Mark Hanson read the 121st Psalm to calm everyone down. But Rev. Steven Loy, chairman of the ad hoc committee on the sexuality statement admitted aloud, “We trust the weather is not a commentary on our work.”

The twister hit and then promptly lifted leaving behind damage of stunning, symbolic exactness. The cross atop the steeple of Central Lutheran Church, directly across the street from the Convention Center, hung upside down, dangling in the air.

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Once the storm passed the convention agenda continued. The warning went unheeded. That afternoon the sexuality statement which needed a two-third majority, passed by one vote – a .666 majority.  Later in the week the group voted officially to recognize gay pastors.

With these votes the ELCA officially stepped outside the boundaries of Orthodox Christian belief and practice. They chose to set up a subjective interpretation of doctrine above of the simple, categorical Biblical prohibitions against the practice of homosexual behavior. They made themselves judges of God’s Word, and God mercifully gave them a warning just moments before their decision. They ignored the warning.

Yesterday, the ELCA finally acted upon their rebellion. In a ceraemony at St. Mark’s Lutheran Church in San Francisco the ELCA welcomed into its fold seven openly gay pastors. It was the first of several planned ordinations scheduled since the denomination took the fateful vote at its convention last year. Yesterday there was no storm. There was no Earthquake in SF, as there was an electric storm in Orlando at an earlier ELCA convention that discussed the sexuality issue, and as there was the tornado in Minneapolis. Now there was only silence. I can’t help but wonder: Is God’s silence and seeming consent an even darker and more terrifying judgment. Perhaps he has simply withdrawn his hand. Judgment and discipline is a form of love. But silence… That’s the most frightening judgment!

I am a Lutheran pastor. The church I serve chose to leave the ELCA eight years ago, and I am no longer on the denomination roster. But I grieve for this church, and the division and dare I say “fear” it has engendered. May God have mercy! And may he again show his mercy in his hand of judgment.

“Have mercy! Lord, do not remain silent! Do not leave the ELCA alone to ferment in their own folly! Act again, in judgment if need be. Just do not turn your face completely and walk away!”



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Concerned

posted July 26, 2010 at 12:17 pm


I agree that this is a dangerous move for the ELCA. I believe that openly homosexual people should be welcome in congregations and possibly even church memberships around the world, as Christ accepted the worst of sinners and societal outcasts. No man is without sin, but scripture affirms and I subsequently believe that those whose lifestyle can be characterized as sinful (hedonists, adulterers, liars, etc.) should not be welcome to leadership opportunities within the church.
One correction to the alarmist nature of this post: correctly rounding the vote tally results in a 0.667 majority.



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Your Name

posted July 26, 2010 at 3:06 pm


Dear Lord, thank you for protecting Your people at the assembly from the attack of Satan, the Prince of the Power of the Air. And thank you for Your continued leadership, through Your Holy Spirit, in the ELCA as they move forward under Your direction, expressed by that assembly on that day.



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Dan

posted July 26, 2010 at 4:44 pm


The ELCA has turned from God. Read more about it here, http://www.exposingtheelca.com



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payday loans toronto

posted July 26, 2010 at 9:55 pm


blog.beliefnet.com is great! It is a nature of human beings that we always think about our convenience first In the same manner same day payday loans are supplying convenience to their customers and offering instant cash on the same day of application



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Karin Oliver

posted July 26, 2010 at 11:03 pm


Your article perpetuates the fear and hatred that draws congregations AWAY from the mission set out for us in the New Testament: to love one another. While you are still consumed with anger and loathing, my ELCA congregation is adding many new members and, let me tell you about these new members. They are young, they are educated, many come from churches stagnated in bigotry and judgement like yours. They visit our church, a 77 year old ELCA congregation that decided to follow our vision statement and not over-react to the sexuality vote, and they want to be a part of the infectious love and openness of our church family. We smile, we share ideas, we agree to disagree, we celebrate the strong legacy of our Luthers teachings. Just tonight, I hosted a dinner for the young ELCA VBS teachers arranged by our synod…all 5 of these young people want inclusion. Sorry, you lose. It’s not too late to change your perspective…I hope to God you do. Bless your angry soul. Signed, Reconciliation rocks!!



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John W.

posted July 27, 2010 at 10:44 am


This piece is right on. Biblical truth. We cannot adjust God’s Word for our times and our convenience.
As Christians we cannot condone a dangerous lifestyle, which is exactly what homosexuality is – it’s a behavior. Look at the life expectancy for homosexuals who practice the lifestyle.
We love people who struggle with their sexual identities, but to accept their behavior is to pile sin upon sin.
And allowing them to lead a church is apostasy.



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Karin Oliver

posted July 27, 2010 at 11:30 am


To the author AND John W. (won’t even put your last name?)
Blah, blah, blah.
It’s laughable that you exclude aspects of heterosexuality in your “dangerous lifestyle” scenerio. We have entire social programs in place for mothers and children whose husbands abuse them. We have 60% divorce rate among heterosexuals who you hold as the prototype for coupling. What do you do with John 3:17….just throw it away for being an inconvenient truth???? “For God didn’t send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world thru Him might be saved.” Good Lord, cut out your condemnation and agenda built on exaggerations and lies… look at the parables of the New Testament. This Jesus of ours is revolutionary in his love and compassion..the “Biblical Truth” as you put it is that he did not mention homosexuality in the New Testament.



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Rob the Rev

posted July 27, 2010 at 11:42 am


Karin Oliver on July 26, 2010 11:03 PM wrote: “Your article perpetuates the fear and hatred that draws congregations AWAY from the mission set out for us in the New Testament: to love one another. While you are still consumed with anger and loathing, my ELCA congregation is adding many new members and, let me tell you about these new members….”
Right on Karen. I am totally in agreement with your whole post and totally disagree with this ignorant, homophobic, bigoted fundi, blog post.
Yeah, sure, God sent a tornado at the ELCA Assemblyas a warning. What BS. I guess on the basis of this reasoning I can say God has sent a blinding disease against Glenn Beck as a warning against his bigoted racism.
Recently a Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod church building was taken out by a tornado. I say it was because God was judging them because of their homophobic bigotry against gay and lesbian people and who are the persons who write this stinking “prayer” blog to say diffenently.
Your Name on July 26, 2010 3:06 PM prayed: “Dear Lord, thank you for protecting Your people at the assembly from the attack of Satan, the Prince of the Power of the Air. And thank you for Your continued leadership, through Your Holy Spirit, in the ELCA as they move forward under Your direction, expressed by that assembly on that day.”
I add an AMEN to your prayer, Your Name!!



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Your Name

posted July 27, 2010 at 11:56 am


God is Love
A Letter to My Gay & Lesbian Children:
I am so sorry that those who present themselves as followers of me and my teachings seemingly do not understand me or my teachings at all.
I am sorry that I left my Gay creations in the hands of a group that would do such vile and disgusting things to you, and in MY name, no less.
I am sorry that I left ANYTHING in the hands of the Heterosexual to ‘protect.’ ESPECIALLY the children. For I do not see anyone on Earth protecting anything other than their wallets.
I am sorry that people who call themselves my followers do anything BUT follow my teachings. Instead, choosing to abuse me AND my Gay creations. For what you do to the least of my people, you also do unto me.
Mostly, I am sorry that my placement of Gay & Lesbian children upon this earth, which was meant to teach human beings how to love each other, has turned into such pain and abuse for those Gay & Lesbian children.
But do not fear. For I am watching. And I am listening. And I know what is in each and every person’s heart as surely as I know how many hairs are on your heads.
And I am sorry. And I apologize for the abuse that you have suffered at the hands of Heterosexuals. That was never my intention. For I am a God of Love. And any human being who feels anything but love for their fellow man is surely not a human being who lives their life for me at all. And they will answer directly to me for that.
I am sorry for the abuse. The degradation. The murders. The rapes. I am sorry for all of it and apologize to my Gay & Lesbian children for the abuse you have endured and continue to endure at the hands of the Heterosexuals who created you.
I apologize FOR them. And I forgive them, as my Gay & Lesbian children must forgive them, as well.
So again, to my Gay & Lesbian children: I am sorry. And I love you. They may take away your rights. They may abuse and torture and murder you. But they will NEVER take away my love for you. For I created you in my own image. And I love you. Please believe that.
Love,
God



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Your Name

posted July 27, 2010 at 12:00 pm


Or perhaps it was a gentle warning of exactly the opposite — “Pass that damn gay doctrinal change already and allow my gay pastors to be gay”. It easily could be interpreted that way as well.
Or maybe it was just the random action of the universe happening again. Just sayin.



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Rob the Rev

posted July 27, 2010 at 12:09 pm


God sent a tornado to kill one the members and destroy the homes of the Missouri Synod church members to warn these LCMS Lutherans to stop their homophobic bigotry agaisnt Her gay and lesbian children.
LCMS member dies in Minnesota tornadoes
By Paula Schlueter Ross
http://www.lcms.org/pages/rpage.asp?NavID=17160
A member of Immanuel Lutheran Church in Parkers Prairie, Minn., was killed in a storm that spawned some three dozen tornadoes across Minnesota June 17, killing three people, injuring dozens, and destroying hundreds of homes and businesses. …. St. John Pastor Rev. Steve Meltzer, who graduated from Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne, this spring and served his vicarage at the congregation, told Reporter that more than half of St. John’s 500-plus members have storm damage to their homes, and “very few people have not been affected at least by downed trees or debris and cleanup.”



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Mony

posted July 27, 2010 at 12:50 pm


Christians are idiots…
All they do is fight, and they can’t even agree on their own teachings.
At the end of the day, I’d rather go to a church that teaches what the Bible says than an ELCGay church. Since when is sex everything the Bible is about. Shame on the ELCGAY for making it so.



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John

posted July 27, 2010 at 12:52 pm


wow… just have to say- what Lutherans did is just plain nasty- and everybody knows it.



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John W.

posted July 27, 2010 at 1:27 pm


And…the venom spew. The enemy is indeed busy these days. God’s truth and salvation is for EVERYONE who accepts Jesus into his/her heart and REPENTS for sin.
The focus was on homosexuals at the pulpit, thus my focus. We don’t condone alcohol/drug abuse either, but we still just try to help those afflicted find their way out of that addiction.
God always wins, and going against His truth puts you in a precarious position for eternity. Accept TRUTH, not someone’s intrepretation of it. Blessings.



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John W.

posted July 27, 2010 at 1:44 pm


America is a nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles, which by definition are based on the Bible. Are there explicit Bible verses on homosexuality? Yes, indeed.
Consider these Old Testament verses on homosexuality: “If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” (Leviticus 20:13). “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you.” (Leviticus 18:22-24). Notice that the latter verses – Leviticus 18:22-24 – lump in homosexuality with bestiality.
There are also New Testament verses on homosexuality, including, “For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.” (Romans 1:26-27).
That homosexuality is increasingly accepted by the society doesn’t change the Bible’s clear interdiction of it. A nation built on Judeo-Christian principles should stand against homosexuality and homosexual marriage. (If you are struggling with homosexuality, there are Christian counselors and websites to help.



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Karin Oliver

posted July 27, 2010 at 2:20 pm


John, John, John-
Not to mess TOO much with your self-righteous quoting of scripture BUT….have you enjoyed marrying your dead brother’s wife and raising all her children???? How is that workin out for ya? Also, how many stonings of women for adulterous acts have you celebrated with popcorn this year? Eat pork? Shameful! Go to a religious lecture where a female speaks? Paul would hurl! Ever consider that Paul, being a sadducee until his Damascus conversion, was not particularly aware that homosexuality existed? Looking closely at the context of the Romans 1:26 passage, we see Paul asking a perceived HETEROSEXUAL to not have multiple partners, including homosexual partners. And you put all that emphasis on Leviticus passages that WORK for your lame agenda, but, you ignore the Leviticus passages 20 words away that may seem a bit dated? Give me a break. I laugh at your reasoning (actually, lack of it) and ignore your puffed up false authority. “Put on Love” does not reject homosexuality…only YOU do.



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John W.

posted July 27, 2010 at 6:06 pm


God bless you Karin. You are in our prayers.



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Karin Oliver

posted July 27, 2010 at 6:57 pm


Why thank you, John W. And I thank you for not invoking “the Bible’s clear interdiction” and the like. We are all children of God, and, even though it may pain you to hear this, my prayers for you, based on the grace and humility Jesus asks us to use as posture, have no agenda…merely that His will be done. I have no agenda. “Love thy neighbor as thyself” pretty much sums it up for me. I have no angst, I don’t use words like “venom” and “pile sin upon sin.” Good grief….it’s as if you never celebrated an Easter Sunday. So many people use John 3:16 as their edict of faith…I prefer John 3:17. Gentle, gentle John reads his Lord well…”For God didn’t send His Son into the world to condemn the world…but that the world thru him might be saved.” Perhaps, “be saved” from human judges??? Food for thought. Peace out…I have work to do….



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John W.

posted July 27, 2010 at 7:47 pm


I am at peace with God’s perfect truth. I don’t think there’s a human alive who can trump the Creator of the universe, by using His words for a particular human agenda. It is a sign of our times that so many are failing to see. The Bible is very clear on this point. Yes, we love our neighbor, yet do not condone sin. Homosexuality is sin. Blessings.



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Karin Oliver

posted July 27, 2010 at 8:48 pm


John W. Yes, yes…and the Bible is very clear that God’s chosen were polygamists….have fun with that one.
Blessings



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Barb

posted July 28, 2010 at 6:25 am


And it has begun….God will now cleanse His church…those who follow in His truth and spirit will be saved.



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Mittens

posted July 28, 2010 at 10:48 am


Yawn. So, if a tornado strikes, that’s GOD’S JUDGMENT. If one doesn’t THAT’S GOD’S JUDGMENT, too? LOL!
At least one thing is clear here: your HATE for your fellow humans who are different.



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Conservative Mark

posted July 28, 2010 at 12:18 pm


Three things trouble me very deeply over this issue… they trouble me so much I left the ELCA:
These people are not for or of the Bible and God’s word.
Martin Luther would have none of this in his church.
Every progressive society that came to embrace homosexuality soon fell into decline.
We are seeing the decline of the United States of America right now and it began on 9-11-2001 when Muslims more true to their holy book began a holy war against us for living as “infidels” and “western satans”.



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John W.

posted July 28, 2010 at 12:23 pm


“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:18
2 Chronicles 7:14 – “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”



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Karin Oliver

posted July 28, 2010 at 12:47 pm


John W…..John W…. There you go again.. Thank you for posting the 2 Chronicles passage…many scholars think that when Jesus refers to “wicked ways” of side-lined believers, he refers to the apathy, judgment, and cruelty displayed to the disenfranchised…especially those of us that read the parables and witness a Jesus who tells us in each and every parable that compassion is what will “heal our land.” I guess it’s all a question of what the definition of is is….:)
But, if you and Barb want to walk around in an apocalyptic funk always parsing out fleshy sins that have no victims while the rest of us welcome all believers and work to improve the state of affairs of all of God’s children, then, my ELCA confirmation curriculum says to me, “Let them be.” So, I say, go for it.



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Dave N.

posted July 28, 2010 at 3:20 pm


On one level, the key issue is one of Biblical interpretation. The people in the kinds of same-gender relationships being discussed here form the same kinds of emotional/spiritual bonds as straight couples. They are as devoted to God and their churches, families, and communities as anyone I know. And there are a great many Christians who consider that relational context to be critical, and believe that the scriptures usually quoted in opposition to these relationships are talking about things that are totally unrelated. So it is wrong to simply assume this is a matter of people being ignorant of or rejecting Scripture.
On a deeper level we have people like John W. and Conservative Mark who don’t even acknowledge the possibility that alternative interpretations are possible. This, in spite of the fact that people who hold differing views are faithful, Biblically-literate, life-long Christians themselves. They seem to have no sense that there’s a difference between their own understanding of God’s Word, and God’s Word itself. And I find that kind of attitude to be extremely disturbing.



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Karin Oliver

posted July 28, 2010 at 3:58 pm


Well, welcome, David N…..I thought I had come to this dance all alone. Your eloquent and earnest words brought tears to my eyes. It’s hard to carry on a blog where one’s opponents throw the apocalypse in your face whenever their Biblical translation is threatened. It’s like trying to carry on a conversation with a 7-year-old who stomps down the hall, slams their door, and turns up the praise music….it really does end the conversation…. :)



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Conservative Mark

posted July 28, 2010 at 4:11 pm


About the only thing “disturbing” in this blog is people like Dave N’s post as he is either homosexual or homosexual friendly.
We need a truth in sexuality clause in our seminaries to root out the evil masked under the cloak of political correctness and humanism.
We need to all read the book “The Homosexual Agenda”, take it to heart and stomp out homosexuality at every turn.
If I had to pick a sin of my own it would be my love of Scotch. If I were as wicked as today’s homosexuals, I would want to make myself an ELCA leader and push an agenda whereby everyone would commune with my favorite beverage of choice, Scotch. Wine would be a memory of the past and forgotten at the lips of Jesus.
That is sinful Mark pushing what he wants and his idea of perverting the church.
So Dave N., do you see my point or are you so deep into your own selfish sinfulness you fail to see common sense?



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Karin Oliver

posted July 28, 2010 at 4:15 pm


Oh my God….this is the best soap opera in town!!! But, Conservative Mark, can we change is from scotch to ecstacy?? That makes the sin so much sexier….quick, I have to leave now to hope and pray for a response from Dave N.!!!!!



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Dave N.

posted July 28, 2010 at 6:27 pm


Mark – every statement in your reponse presumes that committed, same-gender relationships are sinful. Further, you present your beliefs on this matter as indisputable fact, as if you have a perfect understanding of the scriptures that cannot be questioned. And the fact that you feel free to characterize people who support same-gender relationships as motivated by political correctness, humanism, and selfishness suggests you feel a bit omniscient as well.
The people I know who support these relationships are intelligent, faithful Christians who do so because they sincerely believe it is the Biblically correct thing to do. The same can be said for most people I know who oppose these relationships. One thing we all tend to agree on is that we are all human, with a finite understanding of what the Bible has to say, and a capacity to get it wrong more often than we’d like. And so, while we have strong disagreements on this topic, we can still approach each other with humilty and respectfulness.
I’m just wondering if you have the ability to admit there’s a chance … just a small one … that your understanding of what the Bible has to say about the sinfulness of these loving, committed, same-gender relationships might be wrong.



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Karin Oliver

posted July 28, 2010 at 6:39 pm


And, Mark, do you notice how polite and civil Dave is with his blog? Can you please not call those of us that support reconciliation faggot lovers? Bully tactics are not necessary and they really make you look pitifully desperate. Now, count to 10 and we await your answer…..



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John W.

posted July 28, 2010 at 7:01 pm


It truly is an Isaiah 5:20 world. We pray for those of you who adjust God’s singular truth to suit your modern day agenda.
The deception over you is palpable as I read your words.
Blessings and Jesus’ Peace to you.



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Dave N.

posted July 28, 2010 at 7:26 pm


Well, I guess that answers my question.



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Karin Oliver

posted July 28, 2010 at 8:45 pm


Yep, I’m doomed to hell. But, before I leave this world for hell, let me share a little story about the ELCA vote to ordain pastors in committed same sex relationships. My 26-year-old daughter called me in tears after the vote…My husband and I weren’t even aware that she was following the actions of the convention. She said that friends at work all in their 20′s and 30′s went out for drinks afterwards and expressed their desire to search out this Lutheran religion that exhibits non-hypocritical love for all. These young people had not worshipped in years…many of them have visited church with our daughter and are discovering a community of faith that loves their Shepherd, loves his sheep, and wants a world where all are cared for. Praise God. Goodnite and God bless you all.



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Conservative Mark

posted July 29, 2010 at 12:30 am


“And, Mark, do you notice how polite and civil Dave is with his blog? Can you please not call those of us that support reconciliation faggot lovers? Bully tactics are not necessary and they really make you look pitifully desperate. Now, count to 10 and we await your answer…..”
Karin, if you scroll though all my posts, I have been nothing but civil and I never used the term you posted above. Don’t put your words in my mouth or any of your other sinfulness!
Most people are too ignorant to even know how the term “faggot” got linked to homosexuals so to enlighten you I will offer this:
This country was founded on Puriticanical morals. In the 1500′s known homosexuals were burned at the stake. The small twigs used to start the fire were termed faggots. Many in the audience would jeer, “Burn you little faggot!”
Know what you are talking about before you spout off your dribble.



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Conservative Mark

posted July 29, 2010 at 12:33 am


Karin, God cannot bless someone who bears false witness against others. He is a good God but He is not an idiot. That is what the article about is all about… if you read it.



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Dave N.

posted July 29, 2010 at 8:12 am


Karin – just one final thought. When dealing with people who can’t admit to even the slightest possibility they might be wrong, particularly on an issue where there are so many bright, faithful people who hold opposing viewpoints, there’s not much point in trying to carry on a discussion. As intelligent as some of the people on this thread obviously are, they’ve actually said next to nothing that is relevant to the dispute at the heart of all this. Trying to force them to engage usually results in a pointless argument going around in circles, and I know from personal experience that you tend to start sounding like them in the process. Not a good thing.
Sometimes the best you can do is expose the unshakable faith they have in their own wisdom, Biblical understanding, and spiritual discernment, highlight their willingness to misrepresent the views and motivations of those they disagree with, and leave it for other readers to decide what all that says about their character and the value of their opinions. But beyond that, if the people posting all betray that same attitude (regardless of which position they are arguing), it’s best just to move on.
I’m very glad to hear about your daughter and her friends. Blessings to you and your family!!



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Karin Oliver

posted July 29, 2010 at 8:58 am


Thanks, Dave for your wise words and beautiful eloquent writing style. I have learned a lot from this blog. I started off naively hopeful and polite, and, when I kept having end-of-time scriptures slung at me, I became sarcastic and bitter. You are right, our faith carries us through better than our tricks learned in creative writing class.
Conservative Mark. I apologize for attributing “faggot lover” to your lexicon. It was wrong of me. To say that I was re-creating the vitriol of several of your passages when you said, “About the only thing “”disturbing”" in this blog is people like ——’s post as he is either homosexual or homosexual friendly” by metaphorically lumping your anger into the phase was wrong of me. Trust me, I don’t need to exaggerate your vitriol…..it’s there for everyone to see. Again, I apologize.
Since I’ve been condemned to hell, and, now I’m told I cannot receive blessings from our Lord, I better get my things in order. But wait!! I know this to be true, “Nothing can separate us from the love of our Lord.” Good, maybe I have some time to get some shopping in!!
Peace out! It’s been enlightening, and, I have some good notes for the next time a “ELCA is doomed” article comes out. Amen



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Conservative Mark

posted July 29, 2010 at 9:01 am


I thought homosexuals were supposed to be all about love and tolerance? I do not see or hear much tolerance from Dave and Karin.
In fact, anybody in the world of law enforcement will tell you homosexuals are some of the most intolerant and uncommitted people on the face of the earth. They hop beds like frogs and become as angry as snakes when one of them opts out of a relationship.
It is not natural and it is not part of God’s intelligent design.
If the words, “It is not right for a man to lay with a man as a man lays with a woman.”, is abstract to the two of you, perhaps the words, “Be fruitful and multiply.”, bring the sin into clearer focus.
These are not suggestions! These are directives!
I will continue to pray for souls like yours. The race is less important in that we all cross the finish line and get to go to the victor’s circle.



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Karin Oliver

posted August 4, 2010 at 7:18 pm


Today’s California ruling by a federal judge to reject Prop 8 pleases many of us in the ELCA who view inclusion as a gracious way to love all people. We choose, in the ELCA, to encourage committed adults to marry and include church in their married life…and to use time and talent to care for all God’s children. Praise God for today’s ruling. Praise God for families of all kinds.



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John D

posted August 6, 2010 at 1:20 am


I believe it is Rev 12:4 that it says a third of the stars were swept from heaven and cast to the earth.
My interpretation of this would that born again Christians who have compromised their faith as we see more and more in the “Welcoming Church” movement will be judged. These well meaning people have put aside the truth of the word of God to accommodate people who blatantly defy God’s precepts. Sin is sin no matter how it is manifested. The church should be wide open to people who are struggling with the horrors of homosexuality. I know, I have for over 45 years. It is quite another issue to placate homosexuals who will not die to the cross, sanctify themselves for Jesus Christ and cry out for mercy daily for Him to see them through another day.
Gay Pride…”pride cometh before a fall” and the day is fast approaching that the arrogance, pride and in your face attitude of radical gays will be challenged like never before. Our country is in dire straits and the celebrations across the land because one gay judge overturned the will of 7 million people will be turned into tears of bitterness and judgement. Shame shame shame on the Lutheran Church for caving and being a tool of the enemy under the guise of love. It is a fraud and it will be exposed as such.



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Karin Oliver

posted August 6, 2010 at 9:44 am


John D.- I am sorry that you are in a self-loathing stage of your homosexuality. I say this because of your blanket characterization of gay persons as “arrogant and in your face.” The gay persons who attend my church are not arrogant. They are no different from anyone else who worships..not perfect, but, don’t claim to be. Not every heterosexual is characterized as having multiple affairs like Tiger Woods, so, why the gross characterization of homosexuals? I hope that as time goes on and this issues settles down, you will find some peace. Walking around with all that anger and judgment is NOT changing hearts…it’s just giving you high blood pressure. Please read Judge Walkers ruling and be enlightened by his thorouness and fairness…this issue is not going away. Your constant threat of “tears of bitterness and judgment” comes straight out of the minutes of trials of the Inquisition. Give us a little credit here…..



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John D

posted August 6, 2010 at 4:27 pm


Karin…so many Christians both and gay and straight continue to forget that we are preparing for eternity. Life is not all about how much happiness and sexual fulfillment one can attain. Life is not all about social justice and civil rights. This brief time we have on this earth is to prepare ourselves to spend eternity with Jesus Christ. Considering His sacrifice for me the least I can do is show Him respect and honor during this time.
I am angry, that is true, but it has to do with the way in which many of the progressive Christian churches are portraying Jesus Christ. Cathedral of Hope in Dallas has a pastor who believes that Jesus Christ was a homosexual. Check it out and do a google on Michael Piazza. What a hideous and evil way to portray God’s only begotten son. That is what makes me furious, not the fact that I have denied myself a lifetime of errant sexual gratification.
You and I will stand before the Creator of the Universe one day and give account for our life. I want to have something to present to Him on that day. Sacrificing during this brief lifetime is a very small price to know that I will spend eternity with Jesus. You and your gay friends must do what is right for you. If you feel that God blesses gay marriages then there is little that I can say or do to change that. Actually, that is not my goal anyway. Sanctifying one’s life for Jesus should be our top priority. We are all frail human beings and as He says in His word we are but dust and He knows our frame.
There is a reason why so many people are put off by homosexuality. Rational people know that it is an affront to both nature and the way God made us. I knew that from the moment I began my journey out of it. We are all one breath away from eternity and I am doing my very best to see that when I come face to face with Jesus Christ I will be able to present myself in the best posible spiritual condition. Not only do I respect Him I love Him with all of my heart and soul.



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John D

posted August 6, 2010 at 9:03 pm


An additional note: Just because someone like Tiger Woods turns out to be a sex pig does not negate the face that marriage between 2 men or 2 women is wrong.
This is a red herring argument, because according to some of the reading I have done over the months and years gay couples experience the same difficulties in their relationships as straights, much doing with sleeping around with other people. Sin is sin whether it be gay or straight.
Marriage between a man and a woman has been the norm for centuries upon centuries. The notion of 2 men or 2 women getting married was an unheard concept up until the last 30 years or so. Perhaps the problem is that our liberal, godless society has chosen to turn its back on God and feed on their own personal lusts and deceptions.
And to add insult to injury the mainstream churches, under the guise of Welcoming Churches is embracing this lifestyle and re-writing scripture to accommodate their beliefs. Again I say shame shame shame on the Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Episcopaleon churches. Not only are they enabling people to blatantly go against the word of God, they are in essence teaching children that there are no consequences for these behavior. Check the Bible out and see how God feels about leading children astray.



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Conservative Mark

posted August 8, 2010 at 9:37 pm


Something that homosexuals seemingly misuderstand is Christ’s death on the cross was not meant as a “Get Out of Hell Free” card as in a game of Monopoly. There will come a judgement day and we will all sit before him and be judged and all those who are unrepentent sinners will be cast off into the depths of hell.
Those of us who sin but do not try to advance our sin as right or normal will (I hope) be saved.
The difference between myself and many homosexuals is I have lived a pretty decent and good life but even I am not sure I am good enough to stand at the foot of God. It will be His call and all I can do is pray I did not screw this one and only life He gave me to live right according to his word.
Those who try to desecrate the laws of the land, the church and (now) marriage, will most certainly join the damned.
As Pope John Paul said, “It is okay to be a homosexual so long as you are not a practicing one.”



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John D

posted August 9, 2010 at 1:33 am


We are all to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We are “all” in need of a Savior. God provided one for us in the name of Jesus Christ, otherwise we all would be doomed.
Sin is sin. Pride, lust, lying, addictions, murder…the earth has been cursed by God. Read Genesis again. We all live under this dreaded curse and face it every day of our lives in one form or another. Homosexuality is no more a sin than lying or stealing or Tiger Woods having multiple sex partners. The problem is the gay community and its supporters have whitewashed homosexuality and labeled it normal and good. Some go so far as to suggest that Jesus may have been a homosexual..Cathedral of Hope in Dallas comes to mind on that one.
Again I say this life is preparation of eternity. I want to be part of eternity with Jesus. Sacrifices on this side are a small price to pay. That is why I encourage the gay community to consider what Jesus did for them and consider how they conduct themselves just like we all should. Sancitfy our lives for the sake of Jesus.



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Burberry forsale

posted August 30, 2011 at 10:17 pm


so grade the article it’s!!



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