A Poignant Dispatch from Gene Robinson at Lambeth

I am reminded of an old joke.

One Sunday morning a rather disheveled fellow approached a fine looking church in a prominent section of New York. Ascending the steps he was stopped by an usher in a three piece suit. The usher said, "Go away! We don't allow your kind in here!"

Disappointed, he walked to the bottom of the great steps, sat down, and began praying to God. A few moments later he heard God speak to him.

"Don't worry. I've been trying to get into that church for years, and they won't let me in either."

Anyone care to predict how long it will be before a majority of USA Christian churches will be embarrassed to be reminded they were ever against same-sex clergy and marriage in the first place?

I predict less than 4 years for the majority of USA Christian churches to be embarrassed (many already are, and rightly so).

But then again, I don't consider any Church under the 'leadership' of a Richard Land or a Benny Hinn or a John Hagee or a Jimmy Swaggart or a Benedict or a Pat Robertson (or any other Jerry Falsewell clone) to even be a Christian church.

They may be selectviely Christian, but if they ignore the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" rule (the "sum of the laws and the prophets" according to Christ), or the "in as much as ye have done it to the least of these, ye have done it unto Me" dictum (also from Christ), then they simply do not belong in the "Christian Church" category.

For those kinds of denominations, they would have to stop bearing false witness against God's gay and lesbian children (it is still a sin to lie, no?) before they could even be embarrassed by the logs in their own eyes.

"You commit the logical fallacy of the "bandwagon approach." Swings in public opinion polls or in the social conditioning of the young through the media do not change eternal truth."

No, but it can change our mistaken understanding of it. I suggest that you read the writings of Rev. Richard Furman to see just how far our understanding of eternal truths has changed with regards to the slavery issue.

facweb.furman.edu/~benson/docs/rcd-fmn1.htm

Rev. Furman and his fellow Baptists were confident in their understanding of eternal truth with regards to slavery. Now, with over a century of hindsight available to us, we see just how wrong he and his supporters truly were.

I pray that our ancestors look back on this time of change regarding gays in the church and the advocates of that change with the same thankfulness as we look back on those abolitionist Christians of so long ago. And I pray that I live to see the day when views such as Mel's are looked up on with the same disgust and sorrow that we have for those of Rev. Furman.

Marian Neudel: "As for things that our descendants will find scandalous, bear in mind that, as recently as the 1960s, a legitimate ground for anullment in the Catholic church was that one spouse had concealed his or her social class from the other."

Marian, I'm not an expert in the history of the canon law as you appear to be. So I can't be certain if your assertion is factually true or not.

However, concealing information about oneself from your partner would betray a lack of honesty in the relationship. Don't you think so?

Recovering ex-Pentecostal said:

"I predict less than 4 years for the majority of USA Christian churches to be embarrassed (many already are, and rightly so)."

Actually, no Christian church ever needs to be embarrassed for staying true to the tenets of Scripture. However, there are many post-Christian churches that are embarrassed. These are churches more concerned with a social gospel rather than the gospel of Christ.

Jesus loves sinners - homosexuals, drunkards, drug addicts, liars, adulterers, murderers - but He came to SAVE us from our sin, not to make us feel good about it. His command to the woman caught in adultery was "go and sin no more".

Those who approve of homosexual "marriage" and homosexual "clergy" are ignoring the clear teachings of Scripture. Instead of encouraging all sinners (not limited to, but including homosexuals) to put away their sin, they are celbrating and encouraging sin. Such churches cannot honestly be referred to as Christian, and should properly be referred to as post-Christian at best.

"This is the same mindset that used to be applied to interracial marriage, women's suffrage, and abolition. Opponents of these used to cite that advocates were ignoring the clear teachings of Scripture."

If you can cite Scriptures specifically condemning as sin interracial marriage, women's suffrage, or abolition, then you might have a case. Otherwise you are just trying to muddy the waters. Unless you rewrite the Scriptures, the Bible still lists homosexuality as a sin in both the Old and New Testaments. You "interpretations" of that doesn't change the Scripture - it just makes your interpretation wrong.

And even if one day it will be difficult one day to find someone to stand up and call sin sin, God will always do so, because He never changes. And in the end He is the one who will judge according to His Word, not according to our interpretations.

Dear Gene,
Thanks for trying, thanks for being caring of others, thanks for being diplomatic with a church in crisis. It is the modern delimma: how to reconcile our world cultures, developed through human interaction often in a geographically bounded area , with a faith in something more than our geography and culture, something of spiritual connection to God.
I won't let go of my faith that connects all of us and I won't let go of my belief that I am equally loved by God as anyone else.

May the peace of the Lord be with you, and with all of us.

Sincerely, Dr. Roger Ingram

I am so thankful that my Father has allowed me to attend and worship in a church that beleives, God loves all of us. "Whosoever", walks into our doors feels the love we have for our Lord and each other.

One of the reasons the Jews were so angry with Jesus is that he was kind and showed love for the Gentiles.(an unclean people)

I know that if Jesus would walk into our church he would not be told to leave. We welcome all and love all.....race, age, finances, clothing, or sexual orientation is left outside.

I pray one day we will all love as Jesus loved!! He died for all of us!!

Dana Parris

Glad you had a neat little trip to the one place you were asked not to go, Gene. As a lifelong member of the Episcopal Church (30 years) I had always felt as though I could trust the Clergy to help me with the tough decisions I had to face in my life. Your little foray into the forbidden clearly isn't the type of sound judgment I would desire to guide me in my troubled times. I have nothing against gays. My problem is with politicians in vestments. It continues to astound me how you put your own interests ahead of those of the fledgling Anglican Communion as a whole. You are no freedom fighter. You are no equal rights activist. You're not even a "community organizer". You are a selfish, guilty man who is trying to make up for a past that he can not rectify by trying to destroy the future of something that others love.