Who's Going to Win?

"One of my mentors once told me that the measure of a religion in a pluralistic society is the breadth and depth of benefits it brings to its non-adherents."

This line alone is brilliance enough. Fo too long "christian" factions have been working for their own benefit and self-sufficience. If we get nothing else from this new project, I hope this one line will be a beacon and guide for any rising candidates and their supporters.

Hmm, I was brought here by the home page link that promised an article called "Why Christians scare people".

I expected a major essay, and all I got was 2 lines: "the disfavor felt toward a religion is proportional to the harm it brings its nonadherents" and "Sadly, I too often see in my own religion tendencies towards self-protection and domination that bring fear, not hope, to nonadherents." without much elaboration for either.

Where's the 'beef'?

Brian McLaren writes: "But my hope is that more and more of us, especially those inspired by faith, will be thinking about which candidate brings the most wins, the most benefits, the least harm, to everyone."

Brian, this is a great comment and a fine summation of your essay.

Using your definition, religious conservatives have as much to argue for their p.o.v as religious progressives. Likewise with McCain vis-a-vis Obama.

One factor which contributed greatly to the success of the "Jesus movement" during the pre-Constantine period was the deep impression which the charity of Christians made upon the cynical, hardened Romans. These early Christians led by the power of personal example. Your analysis is a wonderful reminder of how 21st century Christian believers need to return to that 2nd and 3rd century standard.

I truly believe that we do not have to fear any candidate running. First of all, we need to pray that God guides whomever wins. It is up to a praying nation to become the conscious of the winner of this presidential race regardless of their beliefs. Also, we need to understand that these individual's in power (state, local, national) are men and women who needs our prayers. They are not God. Let us pray and continue to pray for all leaders in this world. I pray that this election is guided by God not by man. And that God's spirit turns the winner around. Remember how God changed Paul. God Bless, Agnes

I feel an honest answer to "What's in it for me?" can be a step to renewed vision.

Last year I was touring Central America and I was struck between the similarities of lifestyle between Central America now and the impoverished community in Texas where I grew up in the 1950's. I'm An American citizen, but I grew up wearing shirts my mother sewed out of used flour sacks, making midnight runs to the outhouse, and swatting flies and gnats every September in a schoolroom where the thermomenter frequently read 110 degrees. Over the past half-century our country actually has made some spectacular progress, materially, socially, and in basic human rights. To me the question is not, has the country made enough progress, but do I have enough?

I have enough. And because I do, I can turn my attention to joining my brothers and sisters in progress.

A very good guidepost! So first question - what would God's view be regarding taking the lives of thousands of souls He was involved in forming at the time of their conception. Next question.........

Jesus said that the LOVE of money is the root of ALL evil - which candidate has the richest, most powerful friends? That's the candidate I will mistrust.

I used to be a single-issue voter, but as I've matured I realize that the souls of the innocent are returned to their Maker. While I weep for these lives cut off, I weep more for the women who feel thus backed into a corner. If our society cared enough about the poor to institute health care for all (which I believe could be easily covered for less than ten billion a month - why is it that we can spend that on killing people, but not on saving people? Pretty sure that is NOT what Jesus would do today), I have to believe that many women would NOT seek abortions, as they would feel more able to care for their children. Who thinks abortion is fun, something to do casually? Answer: Nobody.

Who here doesn't realize that a true politician will say anything to further his or her private agenda? They could even claim to be born again, knowing that uttering these words gets them a huge voting block, and their only payment to this block is saying they're pro-life. How easy is that? It's a states' rights issue, anyway, and should NEVER be argued on a national platform.

I abhor a political platform that only cares for people until they leave the womb, and then will relegate them to poverty so that they may grow up and have only the military as an option, or end up in a privatized prison, where somebody makes a TON of money by keeping others in cages. We send our poor to kill the poor of other countries, yet so many of my brothers and sisters in Christ forget that Jesus loved and loves the poor. There is only one choice for me this November, and that is for the candidate that inspires hope for a better America. Maybe he'll even reinstate the Consitution as the law of the land?

This is for those who will not accept Obama because they think he is pro-abortion~ they need to study his comments further on abortion and why it was made legal to prevent the back alley abortions that were harmful and dangerous to the people whose minds were already made up no matter legal or not legal. Yes, this has been abused by some, but in the total realm there are more atrocities going in in our beloved country besides abortion. Please Christians be fair and know our LORD is and always on the throne and sees the whole picture. My prayers are for truth and justice to prevail in this election.

After being a Republican all my adult life, I switched parties in 1992. I had returned to church the year before and started to consider the role of faith in my life and in the world--in loving my neighbor, in helping the poor, serving the least among us. I heard Pat Buchanan's speech during that convention. I switched parties and became a Democrat. He had drawn a line in the sand. Hate and intolerance were on one side of that line. I simply could not stand on that side and face my maker. I have never been sorry I changed. I have no idea how my Christian brothers and sisters justify a vote for a party that works against the poor to pour money into the coffers of the wealthy, starts preemptive wars based on lies, and wins elections on wedge issues, polarizing us and destroying common ground and common good. I really don't understand how one can read scripture and hear over and and over again about serving the poor and then vote Republican. Nor, do I understand how homosexuality is considered irrevocably wrong by people who live quite comfortably with and practice divorce. But, just because I have no idea, does not mean that God is not working in their hearts and minds. God is bigger than Republicans and Democrats, bigger than than we can possibly imagine. So, as convinced as I may be, finally, I have to step back and hope in the rightness of my own political stands and pray for God's purposes and salvation to be worked in the world.

This is to "Ruann"... The argement pre-legal abortion alleys and the now safer method. You know, the whole "they're going to do it anyway" nonsence makes about as much since as legalizing heroin or cocain for the same reasons. Do you honestly think that there were as many abortions being performed when it was illegal than there are today? If our country was systimatically killing thousands of say "two year olds" everyday would you still see other issues more pressing? A two month old pre-born's life is just as important as that two year old post-born's life.

First of all, I have noticed what others are saying here in this blog, but it is not biblical truth. We should never ask or imply to God that he should conform to our personal beliefs, but rather we should conform to his way of instruction which is through the Bible.

Romans chapter 1, especially verses 24-32 states implicitly that it is sin to practice homosexuality and what the results of those deeds are.

With respect to back-alley abortions, which was rare to begin with because the lady Roe, who testified about the statistical numbers of those abortions flat out lied about the true number so abortions could be made legal. She later became a bona fide Christian a few years ago and stated she lied back then and made a grave mistake and is now pro-life. Let's be clear, Obama is clearly pro-abortion for the first two tri-mesters and has only recently been wishy-washy about late term abortions but has not been extremely against or for the third tri-mester abortions either. Barack is a Democrat and their platform on abortion is clear, and so is Barack's position on abortion. He is for abortion and to back it up, look at his voting record in support of abortion. Planned Parenthood, NARAL are pro-abortion lobbying groups who support Obama. This is truth, not just vain words.

Another point I like to bring up is the Bible (Genesis 1, Psalms 139, Jeremiah 1:5, etc... is very clear about how God wonderfully formed us in his image and knew us before we were even born and formed. If you have seen what an abortion does, the pain it inflicts on the unborn life inside, you would be appalled, I hope. However, the media nor the legal clinics want you to know this truth. Why, because it would prove the truth about painful abortion procedures and the deaths related still to this day from abortions, and who wants the real truth theses days?

Raquel, you are so right! Just because people want to do illegal activity does not mean we should allow them to do so if they are going to do it anyway. Should we now legalize illegal drug usuage, rape, roberries, murder, hate crimes, and terrorism just because they have decided to do that anyway? I don't think so, but apparently some think this with their minds.

As far as being poor, I have been there and done that. Jesus even said the poor will be with you always. There is always going to be poverty no matter who the President is. I am surprised to see that after all these decades people still think the Democrats are going to put more money in your pocket so you will not be poor anymore. Neither a Republican or Democrat President is going to make you rich.

I really do not care if you like what I wrote, but I think God cares that you know the truth and the truth can set you free (John 8:31,32). Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me(Jesus) John 14:6,7.

Selah, meditate on this.

Thank you, eastcoastlady. I did used to be a rabid fundamentalist, and while I adhere to a fundamental doctrine, my attitudes have changed greatly. Gone are the days when I believed it right to kill a homosexual, picket a clinic, and use the hammer to the head method of converting people to Christianity. hallelujah.

Jesus Truth, here's a truth for you: worldwide, seven to eleven percent of the population is addicted to something. Is heroin worse than coffee or chocolate? The only reason people die over illegal drugs is because they're illegal. De-regulate and nobody can profit from others' addictions, and the trafficking stops, and the addiction rates plummet. Jesus said that LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself, but loving it, ergo it is the traffickers, the Mafia and our own government that profit from addiction (just as an aside, the Taliban in Afghanistan had completely decimated the opium trade, did you think we removed them from power because they were treating women badly? If only!) Money makes the drugs go round, not addiction. The poor will be with us always, but Jesus didn't say they should starve and be homeless and not have access to medicine, did He?

An Iraqi soldiers' life is as precious to God as the life of an unborn American child. They too were created and wonderfully formed in the image of the GOD. Saddam Hussein's life was also sacred. We have a president (yep, another sacred life)who lied to wage a war on a peaceful country where Christians and Shi'ites and Sunnis coexisted peacefully, and there are over a hundred thousand dead Iraqis - ABORTED Iraqis. I put this forth to you - there is less blood on Obama's hands than on George Bush's.

This is for "Jesus Truth" Trudy, Gail and others ~ are you saying the LORD cares more for the unborn than HE does for those after they are born in whatever despressed areas, underprivileged, racial and other misfortunes known to humanity? How can one grave concern be more important than another? I think your bible quotes should also contain the spiritual gifts of Love, Kindness, Peace, Joy, etc.
Galations 5;16 I am so thankful for Brian's article with so much truth, kindness, fairness and compassion.

I feel a lot of times Christians really want other people to believe what they believe and get so busy trying to defend God(Jesus)I was thinking about this the other day and God came into my head (which aetheists,not usually people of other faiths will say"Yeah ,right you are so special that God comes to you out of all the people on the earth and talks specifically to you!"But anyway,I was busily trying to defend Him the other day and He said"You,do not have to defend me,I can defend myself"I'm on several sites on belief net and I'm trying not to read a post from someone of another faith and go straight to the parts where they're trying to explain their beliefs and I only pick the parts that make me mad.I'm actually READING and waiting before I put my 2cent in.It's kind of like when someone asks you to do something and you acquire the self-perserving habit of let me think about that and I'll get back to you.
thanks for really listening?
cheryl3

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