The Apocalypse Rears Its Head
Thursday September 25, 2008
With media attention directed toward the largest economic story in recent American history, other stories are falling by the way. One of the most interesting--and surely least understood--is the story of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's religious faith.As a...
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About Progressive Revival
Diana Butler Bass and Paul Raushenbush both stand firmly within the Mainline Protestant tradition and, along with guest bloggers of all religious backgrounds are dedicated to the revival of religious progressivism and its influence in American politics.
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Diana Butler BassDiana Butler Bass is a commentator and scholar in American religion. She is the author of seven books including A People's History of Christianity: The Other Side of the Story (HarperOne, 2009).
» Posts by Diana Butler Bass
Paul RaushenbushModerator of the Progressive Revival blog and the Associate Dean of Religious Life at Princeton University.
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I am trying to figure out where you are going with this.
It seems a stretch to conclude all that you say from the single phrase "As Putin rears his head." You say this is code for reference to the Anti-Christ, and since her church is the kind that has in the past believed in an apocolyptic outcome, she probably has the same "extremist" views and that should concern us.
And the problem with an apocalyptic view is....? Mainstream Christians who study the Bible eventually come across the Book of Revelation, and while there are many interpretations of this Book, the general view is that there is an Anti-Christ who presents himself as a world leader but who is in fact Satan, while the earth experiences horrific disasters and death. Are you saying this is an "extremist" view? A wealth of books have been written about end times. Its not some hokey bizarre cult. Maybe I am misunderstanding your point, but this is what I interpret from what you wrote.
You have branded as extremist Sarah Palin's church yet not defined what the extremist views are.
. . . the secret word is "dominionism". Palin is an arrogant and ignorant danger to world peace.
** Junk-food faith for a fat-head nation **
• Palin"s political ideology is theology
Welcome to "Gilead." Once part of America, it is a nation controlled by fundamentalists and their transnational corporate overlords. (Search: dominionism)
In The Handmaid"s Tale, Canadian novelist Margaret Atwood evokes a dystopia where women have been stripped of all rights. Gilead is Ameristan, christian Taliban included. (DVD: IMDb.com/title/tt0099731)
• Ameristan - growing an ignorance base
The US is an aberration among developed nations in its affinity for xian enthusiasms and in its failure to accept basic truths like evolution. A plurality of Americans think that evolution does not take place. (http://pewforum.org/surveys/origins/)
A nation overwhelmingly god-fearing also overwhelmingly rejects science. Millions lack a critical intelligence to evaluate the garbage they stuff into their brains.
Palin belongs to them. Her disinformed science -- dinosaurs and humans walked together -- and bloated ego reinforce each other. She is a throwback to the mental and moral world before Darwin, a characteristic of fundies.
• Poisoning society in end-of-days madness
Palin's sexual ideology is pro-mass-death: creating disease, poverty, and ignorance by fostering overpopulation, damning safe non-reproductive sex, and blocking responsible medical research.
She espouses ideological madness. Dominionism is a toxic ersatz for public policy, domestic and foreign. Palin proudly displays that inverted elitism common among consumers of junk-food faith. (See 1Corinthians1:18-28 esp. 27-28)
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't belief in witches and demons be just a bit "extreme". At least a little weird...right?
Ya know... at one time Christianity WAS a "hokey bizarre cult"... the only thing that changed was more people got "cultified" and it became mainstream... that does not change it's cultness.
It still has all the markings of a cult under most people's views until "Jesus" is mentioned then the heads start nodding in sheep like agreement.
Palin is BAD for the nation. Separation of Church and State IS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF BOTH ESTABLISHMENTS. After seeing what the government has done with Wall Street and Iraq, do you REALLY want them nosing around your Church?
Please, wake up.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/02/1327574.aspx
As Pastor Rick Warren pointed out in the recent forum at Saddleback Church, a candidate's "worldview" is an important part of evaluating his or her fitness for office.
Millenial apocalyptic=bad worldview
Talking snakes, talking donkeys, burning bushes, angelic/demonic visitation, exorcisms, magic potions, ressurections=good worldview
Makes sense to me Pastor Warren!
Thanks for your comment Aaron. You have now lost all credibility, and we now know not to take any of your potential future comments seriously. Very helpful!
SARAH PALIN IS UNDER THE DEBORAH ANOINTING, WHICH WILL BRING GREAT BLESSING TO AMERICA!!!!
The Revelation/Apocalypse was specifically written for and directed to the Christian community in Patmos. Patmos has come and gone and the end times did not happen. Jesus implied he would be back before the end of life of some disciples. It did not happen. Paul believed he would see the second coming in his lifetime. It did not happen. Almost every generation since then has had its doom and gloom prophets. None have come true. When will we stop deluding ourselves that someone not of this existence from somewhere not of this world, will be the cause of our annihilation or eternal survival? If this world goes, it will be because we did it to ourselves. If this world blooms into something better, it will be because we did it to ourselves. It seems the value placed on this known world and this known existence is in inverse proportion to the unproven claims to an unknown world and unknown existence.
That's some really BAD theology caddieo.
I guess theology is GOOD only if it requires the suspension of all logical and rational faculties.
Are you saying this is an "extremist" view? A wealth of books have been written about end times. Its not some hokey bizarre cult. Maybe I am misunderstanding your point, but this is what I interpret from what you wrote.
Yes! It *is* an extreme view. Just because a lot of people have managed to be suckered by its hucksters, dead and alive, does not make it any less cultish and bizarre.
To some of the people who are outside looking in, the folks who follow this ideology are insane and dangerous. We who live in the US are now forced to participate in a system that's all but ruled by this strange mockery of life. Many of us have lost friends and family to a war that's being fought in the middle east in part to keep a small patch of land safe for prophecy fulfillment. And we are being asked to give more and more every day to further these crazed myths.
The oddest part of the whole thing is that none of these people can understand why non-Christians would object to any of it. They are completely blind to people of *other* faiths that do not have destruction myths. They can't imagine why we would not wish to pay for or be forced to participate in their system of belief.
I also caught the reference in Palin's interview.
The foundation of good theology is Biblical accuracy.
"The Revelation/Apocalypse was specifically written for and directed to the Christian community in Patmos. Patmos has come and gone and the end times did not happen."
This is simply not true. Patmos was an island where John was in exile. Revelation was not written to that community. It was written (specifically) to seven churches in Asia.
"Paul believed he would see the second coming in his lifetime. It did not happen."
This is also false. The Kingdom of God was ushered in with Christ's ministry. In the New Testament, this entire time period from the time of Christ and forward was understood in several ways: (1) The Kingdom of God (in many ways) had arrived (although there was still a future aspect to it as well); (2) This present evil age; (3) The church age; (4) The last days; Etc.
It is true that we are living in the "last days" (as understood and referenced by the New Testament writers and Jesus). It is also true that the disciples lived in the "last days." And if the earth is still going on a thousand years from now, they too will be in the "last days." It's a theological statement (not a chronological statement).
It is clear from the rest of your statement that you are secular humanist and not a Christian, so I'm not really sure why you are even commenting on this website (although I understand this website to be liberal and pluralistic). So it's somewhat understandable. Maybe I'm the one who shouldn't be here. :-)
Sorry Sam, you struck out!
Revelation was written for followers of Jesus around the end of the 1st century CE. It identifies the anti-Christ as the Emperor Nero of Rome.
Paul did in fact write of his expectation of the return of Jesus during his lifetime. In fact it did not take place. Jesus, according to the gospels, said his return would take place during the lifetime of some of his contemporaries. In fact it did not take place.
Calling "last times" a theological term but not a chronological one renders it pure nonsense. That is a desperate, but failed, attempt to try to get around the obvious fact that Jesus and Paul were mistaken in their claims about the triumphal return of Jesus to transform the earth.
I am a Christian, but not a stupid one.
I also believe that the Bible is much too important and significant to be taken literally or as inerrant. Jesus and Paul did not regard the Jewish Scriputes as literally true or as inerrant. And no one can consistently treat the New Testament as inerrant or literally.
You seem to have Bibliolatry confused with Christianity.
Wow...where to begin...The idea that the anti-Christ was identified as Emperor Nero of Rome is simply not supported by the Biblical text (explicitly or implicitly), nor by any credible theologian (from any era past or present). In fact, the book of Revelation may have been written as much as two decades after Nero's death.
Furthermore, Jesus did not say his return would take place during their lifetime. He said that some would not taste death until they some Jesus coming in His Kingdom. That could easily refer to the transfiguration, the resurrection, and/or the ascension, although it's probably a direct reference to the transfiguration, which would be witnessed by Peter, James, and John. In addition, Jesus makes similar statements that His very miracles are a sign of the coming of the Kingdom of God.
We are in the "last days" and so were the disciples. You don't have to like the use of the term, but that is the era of the church age, the Kingdom of God age, and this present evil age. There will not be an era between now and the apocalypse. That is the meaning of this term. It's a long "last days" period. Who cares? Credibility maintained.
I really don't
Referring to your last point, I really don't know where to begin. The idea that you would call the Bible important and then express a low view of Scripture is baffling.
I FEAR EXTREMIST THINKERS AND HAVE ALSO HEARD ALL THE "RUSSIAN" REFERENCES. I WAS PROTESTANT FOR MANY YEARS BEFORE RETURNING TO BEING A KOSHER CATHOLIC (JEWISH HERITAGE RAISED CATHOLIC). IT SEEMS TO ME THAT MANY OF THEM WANT TO START THE END OF THE WORLD SO JESUS WILL RETURN SOONER. I HAVE HEARD IT PUT LIKE THIS, "ITCHING FOR ARMAGEDDON." SADDAM HUSSEIN FIT ALL THE CRITERIA FOR THE ANTI-CHRIST AS DID ADOLPH HITLER. PUTIN DOESN'T SEEM TO BE IN THEIR BALLPARK.
I FEELWE SHOULD ACT AS IF JESUS IS ALREADY HERE AND "MAKE STRAIGHT THE WAY OF THE LORD." THE WORLD COULD ONLY IMPROVE IF PEOPLE STARTED ACTUALLY CARING FOR EACH OTHER RATHER THAN TALKING ABOUT OTHERS BELIEFS IN A DEROGETORY MANNER. JESUS DOESN'T NEED SALESMEN, HE NEEDS EXAMPLES.
PALIN DOESN'T REALLY CONCERN ME BECAUSE I'M VOTING FOR OBAMA. MCCAIN WAS SO CONDESCENDING IN THEIR DEBATE THAT I COULD SEE HOW HEADS OF STATE COULD EASILY BE OFFENDED. INSTEAD OF SIMPLY DISAGREEING, EVERYONE ELSE JUST "DIDN'T UNDERSTAND." I FIND SMUG CONDESCENSION TO BE THE ANTITHESIS OF DIPLOMACY.
I AM ALSO VERY GRATEFUL TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT IS NOT A THEOCRACY. I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY IN THE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, AS DID OUR FOUNDING FATHERS. OTHERWISE, JUST WHOSE RELIGION WOULD YOU BE MADE TO PRACTICE? ARE YOU THAT SURE IT WOULD BE YOURS?
MINISTERS NEED TO STAY OUT OF POLITICS OR THEIR CHURCHES SHOULD BE TAXED LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS. SIMILARLY, POLITICIANS NEED TO KEEP THEIR COLLECTIVE NOSES OUT OF MY RELIGION.
Talk about "knit picking". ( Where did that expression come from?)
I have heard the expression "rears his ugly head" many times in my life, and never knew it even came from the Bible! I believe you are trying to find a reason to critize Ms. Palin.
Aren't we suppose to leave our Religious beliefs behind us and embrace our New Spirtualitiy?!
Put the Bible down and Get a life!
Every time I read Americans writing about Christianity I wish GOD would hurry up already and return for HIS people.
The writer does not claim that what Ms. Plain's church believes is right.
So to tell him he is wrong is silly. He is reporting what he "has learned" about the church of Ms Palin and what they believe.
Now whether the Anti Christ is Nero, Putin or Amidenijad, is immaterial.
What is the crux of the argument is that this woman is going to put HER religious beliefs in front of everything - so if her church is some loony tunes that believes we must secede and form a new nation under GOD, she will encourage that...
NOR DID THE WRITER CLAIM THE PHRASE quoted came from the BIBLE. The writer says it is a phrase widely used BY SOME THEOLOGIANS when referring to the Anti-Christ.
And NO Carmen, we are not to put down our Bibles, if we are Christans and just meld into some new stream of whatever...we are to study our bibles for the secrets of self improvement...and not waste time as so many fundamentalists do on doubtful disputations, for as the Bible says, so many people have different opinions.
We must follow CHrist, and his example, which had nothing to do with judging or condemning 'sinners' but in whipping self-satisfied fundamentalists out of the Temple of GOD.
Why did the pilgrim emigrate to the US? To escape religious persecution.
Why does the constitution not mention god? To avoid religious persecution.
For example, if your religion doesn't permit gay marriage, you shouldn't marry someone of the same sex. You also shouldn't legislate anyone else from same sex marraige. Why? Because it is religious persecution and un-American to promote bigotry. These are the same conservatives that wanted to outlaw inter-racial marriage in the last century.
Religion keeps raising it ugly head in US politics between Rev Wright, Hagee, and then Dobson's embarrassing prayer for rain on Obama's speech. The irony of the hurricane hitting on the RNC convention eve would be funny if it weren't for the sad loss of life and property.
Focus on your own family!!!
Oh no! Sarah Palin (in the vice-presidential debate) said the mortgage lenders are "rearing that head of abuse." She must think mortgage lenders are the Anti-Christ too!
Or maybe that's just a phrase she likes.
Hmm...
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