“Let’s respect all who want to come to Washington next week and pray. Let’s find collaborative and working relationships with our fellow progressives in the secular world. Let’s lay off the labeling of each other. Let’s pull the nation together as one. Let’s practice the Golden Rule.”
I’ve lived a long life observing national politics in the U.S., and I can’t say I have seen those platitudes lived out by top democratic party leaders in any administration. Democrats are, above all else, Machiavellians. Power is the ultimate virtue for democrat politicians, and it’s very advantageous for them, I might add. Think of it this way: if you don’t have power, you don’t have any decision making ability or authority or voice whatsoever. Therefore, the ultimate priority of any U.S. politician should be to grab elected office by any means necessary and never let go (in this regard, Blago is acting as a good democratic Machiavellian, who despite grave breach of public office, continues to hold the seat of power — excellent).
After observing the effectiveness of the democrat power-first approach to governance for decades, I have come to believe that the Republican party’s new strategy must be to become Machiavellians, too—but so as to advance their traditional agenda of capitalism, constitutional (limited) government, and christianity.

Sarah wrote: “Republican party’s new strategy must be to become Machiavellians, too—but so as to advance their traditional agenda of capitalism, constitutional (limited) government, and christianity.”
So are Republicans now admitting that they have a “Christian” agenda? Well. . .I suppose admitting you have a problem is the first step toward recovery! The Republican use and abuse of a Christian ethos over the past 20 years is cynical Machiavellianism at its best. They paraded it out to get votes and stuffed it back in the drawer when it came time to make policy. Kuo acknowledged as much in his book.
And please. . .capitalism and limited government? What rock have you been living under for the past 8 years? The Republican administration socialized a third of our economy to protect their corporate masters and expanded the size of government and the deficiet significantly. Y’all can say your mantra of capitalism and limited government all you want but it just isn’t true. The fact of the matter is is that the American people have figured that out.

Your Name (you might try a better Web handle?):
The entire ethos of Western Civilization was built upon Christianity, so of course Republicans stand for the preservation of the Christian ethos.
Next, Republicans *need to become Machiavellians* to keep up with Democratic Power Politics. In a fight between an honest boy scout (republicans) and a Machiavellian (Blago, Obama, Clintions, R. Emanuel, Biden, etc.), the Machiavellian will always win. As a result, Republicans should copy every cut-throat power play enacted by Dems in the past 20 years (see: Franken’s fraudulent vote counts or Pelosi’s rewriting of House rules to prohibit Repub-sponsored bills for example) and use every last one of them non-stop for the next 20 years. You have to fight using the same weapons as your opponent, and your goal must always be to eliminate your opponent. Dems are light years ahead on that strategy, but I think Repubs can catch up.
The present Repub administration is made up of centrist/moderates (yet with a conservative view of stopping terrorism), and thus you don’t get a defense of capitalism and zero limited government. But, this can be overcome by a conservative-charged Republican Party.
Go Machiavellian Republicans! Steal the Dems’ playbook. You can do it. No more “Mr. Nice Guy” bs.

If the “entire” ethos of western civilization has a Christian origin, then how do you explain pre-Christian civilization in the west? The Greeks, Romans, Etruscans, Celts, Slavs, Germans and other European/western peoples all developed highly refined civilizations and culture before Christ.
Oh wait, that’s not in the Bible so it must not have happened.
Your comments betray the same insularity and blind devotion to ideology that guided the Republicans to the unfortunate policy decisions that have so weakend our great nation. Fortunately the majority of the American people now understand how dangerous people like you can be when given power and have chosen a more enlightened, sensible leader whose policies demonstrate a far greater connection to Christian morality than his predecessor’s use of torture, aggressive and unjustified war, violation of basic civil and human rights and lack of compassion and love for all people.

An Dliodoir,
The pre-Christian empires you mentioned collapsed, and when they did the Holy Roman Empire built the legal, moral, and civic structures we enjoy today. And yes, the monks and Aquinas and the Catholic Church retained the ideas of the Greco-Roman civilization that were compatible with Christianity while banning the barbarism, brutality and superstition of those old empires.
So, of course Republicanism is fully committed to preserving the West’s moral, legal, and educational structures which came into being via Christendom. From the concept of individual rights and the development of universities to the creation of hospitals and modern science, the best institutions and ideas of the West were fashioned and developed by Christians. Next time you visit a hospital or university, thank the Catholic Church. Next time you claim to have “individual rights,” thank the Catholic Church.
As to “ideology,” the world revolves around ideologies. You have an ideology, the Dems have an ideology, the conservatives have an ideology, etc. The ideology of the conservatives is that which was instituted at the founding of the nation: constitutional limited government, individual rights, free markets, and Christian ethics. Obama is not going to do anything except institute old-world socialism, which I’m guessing you interpret as more Christian. But in fact, as history shows, socialism is dictatorial and against business and individual rights. So, there’s nothing compassionate about that. The socialist regimes of the past 100 years were the bloodiest of all human history—and the least productive, so far as basic quality of life issues.
Fortunately, Americans did away with torture. So, that’s not an issue in our day, unless you’re thinking of these methods used by groups outside of the U.S. (See: SmokingGun – http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0524072torture1.html)
You and Obama can have your socialism, but it will devastate the poor and destroy the quality of life Americans have enjoyed for the past 100 years. American society is great because of this combo: personal freedom/rights, economic freedom, and Christian ethics. Remove any one of those three things and you will see America crumble into a socialist dictatorship.

You say that Republicans are committed to the founding principles and that Democrats are socialists. As noted above it was Bush, a Republican, who socialized a third of our economy. The greatest nationalization of private assets since the Soviet Union. Your claim that Obama is a socialist is unfounded. His policy proposals are clearly within the principles of free market capitalism. You can call him names but it doesn’t make your claim true. Some keep saying that he’s a muslim, not true. Some say he wasn’t born here, not true. Some say that he is a socialist, again, not true.
Your understanding of the formation of western civilization is simplistic. A Christian ethic is clearly one of our foundations but to suggest that it is the only one is absurd. You said before that the “entire” ethos of western civilization was based on Christian principles. Now you acknowledge that there were other contributing elements. Thus you acknowledge that you overstated your case. I suggest you do that often.
I am a Christian and there are many elements of the Democratic platfrom that I don’t agree with but to suggest that they are all bad all the time only betrays your bias. I have no doubt that if I presented you with a copy of a document titled the Democratic Party Platform you would reject it out of hand and call it socialist, etc., etc. If I then told you that it was really the Republican platform I’m sure you would rationalize your prior condemnation. What you are is a Republican first. I suggest try being a Christian first. Jesus was neither a Republican or a Democrat and he’d find much to condem and commend in both of them. I’m certain that he wouldn’t counsel anyone to become “more Machiavellian.” At the end of the day Barak Obama is a fellow Christian who is trying to do his best to serve his country and to walk the path that Christ has shown us.

Ms. Meecham:
The fact that you think Republicans need to become Machiavellians, after eight years of the most Machiavellian and lawless leadership this country has ever seen, wrecks any credibility you might have had on just about any issue.
How can you look at Karl Rove’s sly and mendacious plotting of the Bush campaigns and call that anything but Machiavellian?
How can you look at the campaign of lies and deceit that led up to the immoral U.S. invasion of Iraq and call that anything but Machiavellian?
How can you look at the rhetoric that came out of the White House in the days following 9/11, in which dissent was labeled treason, and call that anything but Machiavellian?
How can you look at the 2004 campaign, which featured the Bush campaign drumming up fear and demonizing their opponent (who actually fought in war, in contrast to Bush’s being too lazy to even serve the post in the Texas Air National Guard that his daddy got him) as an effete European type, and call that anything but Machiavellian?
How can you look at the Bush administration’s willingness to use torture – torture, for goodness sake – and call that anything but Machiavellian?
Your implication that Republicans are pure as the driven snow would be laughable if it weren’t being used in a rather transparent attempt to smear Democrats as conniving and manipulative. There are numerous more occasions of Republican Machiavellianism going back well past Reagan into Nixon. Your claim that it is Democrats who are Machiavellian and Republicans who are pure is rather pathetic on its face. Both parties have their Machiavellian tendencies, and that’s just the way government works in this day and age. I’d advise you to remove the rather simplistic “Republican good, Democrat bad” filter from your eyes and see the big picture.

An,
Bush admits that he abandoned free market capitalism in the nationalization of AIG etc. Bush was a traitor to our country in this regard. Moderates like Bush are basically Democrats (except on national defense issues). And yes, Democrats are socialists, both in training and in government regulation. They are not pro-business, pro-police, or pro-national defense.
Obama may not be muslim, but I don’t care about that. He is not a natural born citizen, and even though such constitutionally prohibits him from being President, the constitution is only applicable when Republicans are in charge. Dems follow rules and ethics only when it hurts the Republicans (Note that Obama is currently placing known tax-evader, Timothy Geithner, as head of the IRS. Amazing, but typical for Democrats, who strongly defended a philandering Commander-in-Chief who committed gross sexual harassment of a college intern in the Oval Office and got away with it.)
One cannot overstate the role of Christendom in the institutional development of the West. And so I restate that it is part of Republicanism to preserve that great heritage and continue it. You should also seek to preserve this unique heritage.
I don’t dislike Democrats. It’s just that they are ignorant in supposing that progress for society and the poor can occur in an environment that rejects free markets, constitutional government individual rights, economic freedom, and Christian morality. Lenin, Stalin, and Marx possibly meant well, but the road to hell is often paved with good intentions, and so some 40 million Russian citizens were slaughtered for the socialist regime’s good intentions. It can happen in the U.S. if socialism continues its takeover here.

James,
First, we won the Iraq War.
Second, the Iraq War was started by congress, and the vast majority of Democrats voted for it.
Finally, by “Machiavellian,” I mean “rule breaking.” Think of Blago in Chicago, or Franken stealing a senatorial election, or Obama’s appointment of a known tax evader to head the IRS, or Pelosi’s rewriting of House rules to prevent alternative bills proposed by the Republican minority. Such power plays are not typical of Repubs.
Like it or hate it, Repubs are always going to be strong on national defense within the American tradition of war. We are not pacifists or peaceniks, for those movements are self-defeating and suicidal in the face of aggression.
Again, the Bush Administration has never tortured. Waterboarding is *psychological* coercion, and is only used to get information on known terror plots. As such, it is just and necessary—that is, if thousands of innocent human lives are to be spared from terror attacks. Jesus would agree that it is just for law enforcement to coerce one person in order to save thousands from brutal injury and slaughter.

First, we won the Iraq War.
That is a debatable proposition at best. Furthermore, that (in your opinion) we won the Iraq War is not incompatible with its being irresponsible and immoral.
Second, the Iraq War was started by congress, and the vast majority of Democrats voted for it.
Congress voted to give Bush the authorization to start the Iraq War – a mistake on their parts, true, but given that the Bush administration was feeding them faulty and misleading intelligence, a mistake that still makes them less culpable in the war’s waging than Bush. The Iraq War was started by George W. Bush and his cronies in the Administration who cooked the intelligence. It was indeed authorized by many Congressional Democrats, to our shame, based on that cooked intelligence.
Finally, by “Machiavellian,” I mean “rule breaking.” Think of Blago in Chicago, or Franken stealing a senatorial election, or Obama’s appointment of a known tax evader to head the IRS, or Pelosi’s rewriting of House rules to prevent alternative bills proposed by the Republican minority. Such power plays are not typical of Repubs.
I’m tempted to spit-take here, since this whole paragraph is full of laughable propositions.
First, Blago wasn’t exactly beloved by Democrats in Illinois either… his popularity rating before the scandal was hovering in the teens.
Second, I’d like to see your evidence – from nonpartisan, authoritative sources – that Franken is “stealing” a senatorial election.
Third, regarding the Geithner appointment, given the complexities of our tax code and the IMF’s relationship with it, it’s easy to make a mistake on one’s taxes – and Geithner paid back the taxes he owed in full.
Fourth, the House rules are voted on by the entire House. By definition, it isn’t breaking the rules if the rules are changed according to the mechanisms set forth as being appropriate for rule changes.
Like it or hate it, Repubs are always going to be strong on national defense within the American tradition of war.
The “American tradition of war” is not exactly a tradition I’d go hitching my horse to. Sure, it’s easy to be filled with patriotic fervor when considering World War II, but we forget that the immoral and irresponsible war in Vietnam is also part of “the American tradition of war,” as is the U.S. invasion of Iraq, which was based on lies.
We are not pacifists or peaceniks, for those movements are self-defeating and suicidal in the face of aggression.
Nor are Democrats. Democrats, however, (a) recognize the importance of diplomacy in resolving problems before they reach the point of moral failure at which war is necessary, and (b) recognize that if we are going to commit American servicemen and -women to war, it should be for a good cause, based on true intelligence. Given their shameful actions over the last eight years, Republicans don’t appear to share these values.
Waterboarding is *psychological* coercion, and is only used to get information on known terror plots.
Wow. Just wow. That you continue to hold this position, in light of the overwhelming consensus of just about any expert on the matter who isn’t carrying water for the Bush administration, is morally repugnant. I don’t often say this, because it’s an incredibly big thing to throw around, but I don’t see how anyone who justifies the use of waterboarding or any other form of torture can call him- or herself a Christian. It is so clearly and obviously immoral that to admit its utility in any way is a form of deep moral compromise that calls into question the very existence, to say nothing of the orientation, of the conscience of the holder of such an opinion.
As such, it is just and necessary—that is, if thousands of innocent human lives are to be spared from terror attacks.
Numerous case studies have demonstrated that in addition to being plainly and grossly immoral, torture is completely ineffective in gaining intelligence, as it will pressure the victim into telling his or her captors what they want to hear – regardless of whether or not it is true.
Jesus would agree that it is just for law enforcement to coerce one person in order to save thousands from brutal injury and slaughter.
This – this is the final straw. To claim that Jesus would support torture is blasphemy of the highest degree.

Winning the Iraq Was just, if only for liberating the citizens from a horrifying and brutal dictatorship. Generally speaking, more Americans are killed in Chicago each year than in the Iraq War annually.
Glad we agree Congress sent us to war against Iraq. Moreover, Bush was misled by the U.N. data, as well as data handed to him from the Clinton/Gore intelligence on Iraq. Everyone said Iraq had a nukes program, and I can’t think of anyone who said otherwise. If you knew differently and withheld this information, you are responsible for the outcome, and I blame you.
Blogo is simply making my point that the ultimate principle of democrats is “stay in power” no matter what. To lose one’s office is the ultimate vice or failing, from the Democrat perspective. Stupid Repubs willfully step down at the whiff of controversy. Idiots.
Franken is stealing the election, as has been proved by the *impossible statistical odds* that the contested ballots broke in his favor the way such reportedly occurred.
Geithner evaded his tax responsibilities. And now he’s nearly head of the IRS. Classic democratic party politics. He paid back his taxes *after getting caught*, of course.
Yes, Pelosi’s rules were lawfully changed. But they were changed to prevent Repubs from offering any competing bills. That’s suppression and censorship, in principle, to ensure that Democratic agendas have a monopoly and to ensure that Repub voices are censored.
You say Democrats aren’t pacifists, but I have no evidence of this within my lifetime. Sorry, but though I wish I could believe you on it, my personal experience says no. Dems would wait until it’s too late.
Waterboarding is practiced upon U.S. soldiers for training purposes, and is psychological. If you want to see torture, see this manual posted on SmokingGun: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0524072torture1.html
Maybe you think spanking a child is “torture,” too.
You say “torture is ineffective,” but that’s nutty. And, while waterboarding is not torture, we foiled terrorist plots via ACCURATE information gathered from waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.
Finally, you said that “to claim that Jesus would support torture is blasphemy of the highest degree.” James, read what I said: I said that Jesus would agree that it is just for law enforcement to coerce one person ***in order to save thousands from brutal injury and slaughter.***
It’s impossible to imagine that given the choice between roughing up one person and watching thousands killed in a terror attack, Jesus would choose to let the thousands die. If you believe otherwise, you believe Jesus is a wicked evil being.

“I can’t think of anyone who said otherwise.”
Did you forget the entire Valerie Plame affair and what happened to her and her husband Joe Wilson when they offered evidence to the contrary? Did you not hear about the request of the UN weapons inspectors for Bush to not move against Iraq? Do you not remember that it was Bush who told Saddam to “get out of dodge” or the US would attack. Your inability to think of anyone with a different viewpoint shows willful ignorance.
“Blogo is simply making my point that the ultimate principle of democrats is “stay in power”
It is profoundly foolish to claim that the actions of a single person represent the standards and principles of all persons. Part of the Republican problem is the tendency of their supporters to paint with a broad stroke. Larry Craig’s indiscretions do not mean all Republicans have moral failings. The Abramoff scandal is not proof that all Republicans are guilty of bribery. Your point of accusing all democrats of exhibiting a behavior by pointing to the failings of a single individual shows a lack of critical thinking ability.
“Stupid Repubs willfully step down at the whiff of controversy.”
Nixon hung on until it became apparent that not only was there enough evidence to impeach, but he was informed there were enough votes to convict. He quit because he would have gone to jail. He also knew that Gerald Ford would issue a pardon.
“Geithner evaded his tax responsibilities.”
He made an error, one that has been made by others. Even Republicans recognize this. Our laws differentiate against willful evasion and error.
“But they were changed to prevent Repubs from offering any competing bills. That’s suppression and censorship”
That has been going on for the 6 years that the Republicans controlled the senate and house. But now that the Republicans are in the minority, you see it as a problem.
“You say Democrats aren’t pacifists, but I have no evidence of this within my lifetime.”
Well Johnson probably holds more responsibility for the escalation in Vietnam than any president. Nixon won office by promising to end the Vietnam conflict. A promise he broke.
I can only assume that your lifetime is quite short. Try reading history.
Of the declared wars, only one was declared by a Republican. World war 1 and 2 were both presided over by Democrats.
“Waterboarding is practiced upon U.S. soldiers for training purposes,”
Yes, because US soldiers need to be prepare for encountering torture. If the whole world followed the Geneva conventions, it would not be a necessary part of training. Unfortunately, we have joined the nations who lack the civility to refrain from inhumane practices.
“It’s impossible to imagine that given the choice between roughing up one person and watching thousands killed in a terror attack, Jesus would choose to let the thousands die.”
As a truly spiritual person, I don’t think Jesus would see death as the ultimate bad. Do you not believe in life after death? You also make the assumption that the information received from torture is accurate, will save lives and the person being tortured is guilty. All evidence ever gathered proves that it is not the case. Thousands of lives have not been saved as a result of torture. I do not believe that Jesus would consider it acceptable to engage in such acts under any circumstances. To claim that it is justified because you “know” it is for a good purpose displays an arrogance in your own infallibility that makes me wonder if you know anything about Christianity.
We know that innocent people have been executed by our legal system. In the last few years a number of people have been released from death row as a result of DNA testing that revealed their original conviction was in error. These are people that had the full benefit of a trial, and still we got it wrong.
The people we water boarded, were not tried and found guilty. They were tortured on suspicion because they were in a certain place at a certain time, and were the right nationality.
I find it bone chilling that people can be so full of hatred that it does not occur to them that we fall off a moral abyss when we permit our soldiers to torture. We have lost all moral authority, and yet Ms. Meecham can justify it within the belief of Christianity.
“Franken is stealing the election, as has been proved by the *impossible statistical odds*”
This is not at all a true statement and once again demonstrates a willful ignorance. The recount was handled by a bi-partisan group every step of the way. Republicans and Democratic officials have agreed. I have no idea what impossible odds you are referring, but statistics and odds have never been the deciding factor in an election. The judges, legal authorities and election workers in Minnesota have spoken out quite forcefully against these claims by the radical right. It is an insult to their entire process, the hard work they put into making sure things were handled fairly and according to law.

“It’s impossible to imagine that given the choice between roughing up one person and watching thousands killed in a terror attack, Jesus would choose to let the thousands die.”
One more thing. Thousands died in the earthquake in China, thousands died in Katrina, thousands died from the tsunami in Indonesia.
Thousands die all the time due to natural events. The potential death of those thousands did not lead Jesus or God to perform any miracle to avoid it. The earthquake happened and the storms happened, regardles of the death and destruction of innocent life. If they can’t or won’t alter the course of a flood or storm, I doubt they would stoop to torture to avoid deaths.

Joan,
If you and your family were set to board a plane of 400 people that was secretly targeted for explosion, and if law-enforcement officials could prevent your murder by roughing up a conspirator being held in custody, would it be moral to *refuse to coerce the conspirator*, leaving the 400 to die?

As someone who realized years ago that my Republican values were interfering with my Christian values, I have to say that I’m grateful to see the party in such turmoil.
The Religious Right has gone way beyond the boundaries set for us in the Bible and has even turned our nation into an idol.
Meanwhile, the non-religious Right have used churches as pawns in order to get votes for their own agenda, which bears little resemblance to the reign of God on earth.
Maybe now Christians will realize they’ve been had by the political right, and maybe now they will realize they do not have the biblical authority to impose Christian morality on people who make no claim to follow Christ.