Thanks, Diana, for such a compassionate response to the situation many people actually face. It’s so easy for some to lump everyone into a category that advances their view without stopping to recognize the complexity that truly exists. I fought tears thinking about your friend Mary because she’s got so much company in her plight. I’m always inspired by your posts.

I respectfully disagree. While I have compassion (and empathy) for those negatively impacted by the current, and long overdue, economic crisis, I find nothing moral about forcing the balance of the American taxpayers and currency holders to subsidize the losses of individuals and/or corporations. I believe Mr. Santelli’s use of the word “loser” should not be the focus. It is absolutely immoral for a government as a whole, or any of its entities, to force the entire economy to suffer for the malinvestment or fraudulent actions of a few. My wife and I make it a point to live well within our means. Despite our frugality, we will be punished via direct and indirect (inflation) taxation alike. As if it isn’t difficult enough to save a few bucks for an uncertain future, our government and those being hood-winked into a more socialist state are making it downright impossible. As a Christian, I’m actually saddened that one’s Christian faith would be used to excuse the government’s monopoly on force and coercion. Supporters of government intervention on behalf of the few, double as enablers for future economic crises. Pick up a copy of “Economics In One Lesson” by Henry Hazlitt… for the sake of future generations.

YES! I saw that clip on MSNBC and I thought “what a a@#&$#@” – Obama went out of his way to talk about why housing assistance was important to our communities d how this was not rewarding speculators, and how important it is to help our neighbor in trouble – and this guy just tears apart the fabric -from the moral high ground of the Chicago Mercantile! Well said, and shame on Santelli.

@Mike
You are not a Christian. You do not have compassion for those hurt by the housing crisis. Our economy is collapsing and not because of the actions of a few people. Unless you count AIG, Bears Sterns, Lehman Brothers to be just a few people. Wall Street destroyed our economy with their greed, creating new ways to cheat people.
Where were you when Bush was given a blank check for Iraq? Did you complain about the 2 trillion dollar debt or do you consider that a sounds investment? The Iraq war put us in debt long before the collapse of the financial markets.
Shame on you. Shame. You disgust me.

RT, as a Christian, I do not believe in force and coercion. I am capable of giving, and I do, without needed to be forced to do so by government. Don’t assume for one second that because of my disdain for Obama’s economic plan, that I am somehow supportive of Bush and his policies. I was very much opposed to the war in Iraq. I am for very limited government, a very limited military, an honest, hard currency, in order to preserve liberty for the people. I think the debt that has been run up by several fraudulent Congresses and Presidential administrations is disgraceful. I’m sorry if I disgust you, but I see it nothing short of immoral to sanction government theft of private property, simply because YOU agree with the program. I disagreed with the bailout that was pushed through by the Bush administration too. Thievery is the best way to describe these plans.

RT, honestly, today’s economic crisis was set in motion decades prior. The Iraq War certainly contributed and hastened it along, but decades of government growth and deficit spending has contributed. Decades of government interference and coercion in the economy has contributed. It isn’t simply what Obama is doing; I don’t place the entire blame on him. However, he is doing NOTHING to actually fix the problem. If you disagree, sit back, watch and wait.

Mike,I agree with you.
Are we our brother’s keeper? I would like to think we are. So, why is it then, at a time when there is despair and worry about jobs,income and providing for the general welfare for our familes,that greed and corruption seem to undermine all that we hold dear. How many families could have been provided for with money to protect the salt water harvest mouse? How many jobs would be saved by redirecting the money for a rail system between California and Nevada? How many people could have been saved from the ranks of the unemployed by using money targeted to teaching people about STD’s?
Prior to the French revolution when people were starving, Marie-Antoinette’s statement was “Let them eat cake.”
“Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?”
“Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?” These people,our brothers and sisters need the government’s help now! Will our government offer a stone, or will it tell them to eat cake?
God forbid that a major catastrophe befall this United States. The underdogs,the weak,the poor and less fortunate would all be trampled in the name of self preservation

Your example does not seem to indicate that Mary was taken advantage of (perhaps she was, but the situation you describe does not prove this). She was in financial trouble and tapped equity in her home to get by. What rate was the old mortgage and what rate was the new mortgage? Did she pay closing costs that were too high?
If she was getting calls from debt-collectors two years ago, it sounds like she was in trouble then and should have reduced her expenses and perhaps downsized. I fail to see the greed here – it may be there, but you do not show it!
….When her husband died, she faced a number of unexpected bills for medical and funeral costs. At the top of the market, an unscrupulous lender offered her a new mortgage–on the house she nearly owned–to pay off the unpaid expenses and relieve the pressure from debt-collectors. ….
….Now, just a few years later, she is too ill to work and lives off of Social Security and help from her children. Because the housing market in Arizona collapsed, her mortgage is worth more than her house and she is “underwater.” Her own medical bills are difficult (due to the thoughtless prescription drug “benefit” left-over from the last administration). Every month, she sits at her kitchen table and cries over the bills while struggling to pay the mortgage to keep a roof over her head.

Your example does not seem to indicate that Mary was taken advantage of (perhaps she was, but the situation you describe does not prove this). She was in financial trouble and tapped equity in her home to get by. What rate was the old mortgage and what rate was the new mortgage? Did she pay closing costs that were too high?
If she was getting calls from debt-collectors two years ago, it sounds like she was in trouble then and should have reduced her expenses and perhaps downsized. I fail to see the greed here – it may be there, but you do not show it!
….When her husband died, she faced a number of unexpected bills for medical and funeral costs. At the top of the market, an unscrupulous lender offered her a new mortgage–on the house she nearly owned–to pay off the unpaid expenses and relieve the pressure from debt-collectors. ….
….Now, just a few years later, she is too ill to work and lives off of Social Security and help from her children. Because the housing market in Arizona collapsed, her mortgage is worth more than her house and she is “underwater.” Her own medical bills are difficult (due to the thoughtless prescription drug “benefit” left-over from the last administration). Every month, she sits at her kitchen table and cries over the bills while struggling to pay the mortgage to keep a roof over her head.

California…
People bought homes with no income, no job, and no assets. How, with subprime NINJA loans. A busy boy in my neighborhood had 3 homes. These people were GREEDY- not victims.
In another scenario, in Salinas people expect a bailout for the loss on their investment (home). A Hispanic man who presented his situation on the radio, expected bailout money even though he could pay his monthly mortgage, which was cheaper than renting.

This widow friend of yours had a run of bad luck and did not seek proper financial counseling it sounds like – for whatever reason, she was taken advantage of. I feel sorry for her – but what does that mean for the rest of the nation??? What obligation does the rest of the country have for her? I certainly think that charity organizations/church can help. maybe she needs to lose her home. It’s sad but it’s life.
You can’t make choices in life and not bear the consequences.
This argument about being my brother’s keeper is not appropriate. This is assuming that I am better off than my brother -
I don’t see the government as being my brother. What I see it as is a thief who steals from me so that I am much worse off so that I can not help my fellow man.
There are so many laws and bills that are passed with the best intentions. Yet there are also people out there that are waiting to take advantage of them. Therefore the best way to help your fellow man is by giving your own time or money directly or through charity organizations that do not have any political agenda. I live in western Kentucky and a couple of weeks ago a very bad ice storm hit this region. I heard and saw so many neighbors helping each other. There was no mandate, no law that required us to do so. Just the right thing to do.
I guess my reservation for going against the housing or any bailout plan is that you can not force people to help each other.
Secondly, if you borrowed more than what you can afford or if you did not fully understand what you were signing up for, maybe you alone need to face that consequence – ie lose the home and go rent an apartment…

Keith Olbermann on his MSNBC Countdown 20 February program last night had a great response to Mr. Santelli.
In awarding Santelli the bronze in his Worse Persons segment Olbermann said, “I don’t’ know Mr. Santelli but I’m wondering if it occurred to him that his arguments against the government promoting bad behavior and subsidizing the losers and paying for their neighbor’s mortgages, that those comments carried to their logical extreme are the best arguments for not bailing out the bad banks, not bailing out the bonus crazy wall street guys, and not bailing out any of those mercantile traders who happen to be standing behind him. Geez t Louise man come back and join us in the real world. Business people in this country right now are viewed like actors were after Booth shot Lincoln. While we try to fix what you all did to this country just sit down and hush-up!”
Watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd58xavWfTc
http://community.beliefnet.com/northernimager

For many people, this is their first dose of Rick Santelli. It should be noted that he was also against the first bail out of lending institutions back in the fall.

Ms. Bass, you missed the point entirely and you twisted the facts. His point was simple as it was against bailing out the banks is that using our tax dollars to bailout bad decisions by anyone. Furthermore, you try to make it a class issue which based on Obama’s Stimulus package: taxes the wealthy while cutting everyone else. Some mortgage broker in Cal. has no relationship to Mr. Santelli or floor traders for that matter. The bottom line is why should my tax dollars be used for someone else’s mistakes? Are you willing pay me for the losses in my stock account on the stocks that I made bad decisions on and lost money. Why not bailout all the people who have lost money in their 401 k Plans the last year? What do the people that can pay their bills because they are frugal and live within their means get? For every Mary there are 3 people who took advantage of the system or were specking homes. Give me break!

So if I balk at bailing out Mary, I’m a bad Christian? I was in her place–MIA husband, no support, three small kids, and a mortgage to boot. I sold the car, took a second job, and paid off the house. When predatory lenders called me asking me to take out a second mortgage, a secured loan, to “help” pay bills, I told them to take a hike.
Since Mary probably got more than chump change on her second mortgage, how far in debt was she anyway?
My financial situation still isn’t perfect but I agree with Santelli on this one.

The point seems obvious, but everybody is missing it: If we let everything go to hell because these “irresponsible” people “deserve” it, well, then everything goes to hell. Sometimes helping the few helps the many. Not helping the few creates a large chance of hurting the many. Which will it be? The foreclosure epidemic has hurt us all–our property values, etc.–much more than we will be hurt by helping to stem the tide of foreclosures. This thing is snowballing. Don’t push it down the hill.

By “helping the few”, we actually hurt others and the economy as a whole. Government cannot cannot do anything without first TAKING from people. The taking that government must do in order to “help” does nothing but damage the economy further. If we want to help everyone, we should allow the free market to work. Allow property values to drop to the true market prices, and you’ll see a lot of people who would otherwise not be able to afford a house, all of a sudden be able to because the prices have fallen to the appropriate level. And everyone would be “helped” without anyone having to be taken from. Recessions are not the problem, they are the cure. Cheap money, malinvestment, and over-consumption are the problems. The more interference you want from government in the name of “help”, the more frequent and severe the economic downturns will be. Don’t believe me? Wait and see.

ms bass, i would love to live in the utopia that u think we live in where we can save everyone. unfortunately there are many “mary’s” out there that through their lives seem to have worse experiences than most other’s and they have to deal with it themselves mainly. on their own, with the help of family n friends, maybe a church, etc, but the govt should not help u. and while i feel for these people i am not paying for them and their misfortune. tell “mary” that she has to file for bankruptcy, downsize her place (maybe move in w/ children), and get a fresh start. it may not be fun, but its how it is. afterwards things will improve. financial pain is coming to this country n the sooner it happens the sooner we will get through it. a recession/depression is a garage sale for the rich. the people that have $$, will buy the “bad debt” of the “mary’s” of the world, at a 30% discount. and then things will slowly get better, and the rich will get richer. sorry but thats capitalism and its better than the alternative.

I posted this on another site, but it works equally well here:
“Too embarrassed to trouble her children, and full of that noble sense of middle-class pride, she listened to him, signed the papers, got a check, and cleared the old bills.”
but not too embarrassed OR noble OR middle class to ask the rest of us to foot the bill for her pride.
Diana, you really need to get in touch with “everyday citizens” like myself. Mary is living outside of her means. My mother and father worked hard their whole lives. Lived in the same house, just like Mary.
I have two special needs children and when my father died, he didn’t have any life insurance (and if he did, he’d have wanted it to go to my mother’s needs and not a fancy funeral)
Chances are, if you are describing the predicament Mary was in due to “funeral expenses” it cost near 30,000 for her to bury her husband. I love my father so dearly, I nearly died after he did. All the same, he was cremated, and his “funeral” (one hour wake/no reception afterwards) cost under 1,000 dollars. Mary overspent, obviously.
I’m white, barely middle class, a registered nurse, and have two special needs children. Trust me, if I died, I’d be cremated and leave this world without much fanfare.
My mother and father lived with us for five years before my father died. My mother has lived with us now for 13. If Mary can’t afford her “Arizona” home, one of her many children should step up, not the rest of the taxpayers. Honor your father and mother.
“Mary choking back tears” isn’t reaching me. Mary had other choices, none of which she obviously considered. I didn’t bury my father on 1,000 dollars so Mary could keep her fancy funeral and home. Get real. Get in touch.
As for bible verses and finances:
“The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender” (Proverbs 22:7).
I agree with the other posters who mentioned funeral expenses, life insurance, lending disclosures. I’ve signed no less than (counting on fingers) 9 mortgages (including some with “adjustable rates”) and the disclosures were all over the place. If someone is that ignorant, they SHOULDN’T be living on their own.
It doesn’t take a “village”. It just takes Mary’s children caring as much as you expect the rest of us to.
My mother lives with us quite comfortably on her social security check.
Having the elderly in a multi-generational family living situation is the NORM for most of the civilized world. People having a retirement that is more financially solvent yet more luxurious than during their working years is just that—a dream. At least for the vast majority of people. It’s the very same financial institutions that helped get people in this catastrophe that sold them that scenario.
My mother has her own room, has the love of four grandchildren, (I have four children total) never worries about where her meals are coming from or a single utility, has her own car (which my husband maintains for her) although it sees little miles since I generally can drive her anywhere she wants to go. She’s 82. She gives our family something we can’t buy: Continuity and unconditional love. She humanizes us.
What disturbs me is someone thinks their children have such high expectations of not being bothered that they couldn’t ask one of their own children (or all of them) for a hand in a situation where they might potentially be facing moving or homelessness.
We have a three bedroom home, and we’re FINALLY in the stages of converting another room in the house to a bedroom. Putting up some dry wall and a door is far less expensive than moving. We’ve waited three years to do it, but I wouldn’t call it a hardship.

May God deliver us from those who would profit off the financial misfortunes of others. May those who keep the poor in their poverty, who turn charity into personal gain, who get rich off the interest of other people’s debts — may they be scattered like dust and brought to repentance. And may God teach the rest of us how to live within our means, to be an example of wisdom to the world.

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