Slow Words

Wowie Zowie! Absolutely! Amen and Amen!...GREAT stuff!

And, yes, I thought long and hard before I wrote that! :-)

Obama has yet to officially Apologize. He is skirting that need.

What does he have to apologize for, and to whom does he owe this apology? Please spell it out in detail rather than assuming that it's self-evident that Obama owes someone an apology.

It is not for him to feel wrong in anything he says, only to cover the polls and media's expression of concern for his mistake and lack of judgment in making claims without foreknowledge of the facts.

And yet, as the facts come out, they seem to confirm his opinion. The police were wrong to arrest Gates and had absolutely no cause for doing so, as is made abundantly clear by their releasing him without charges.

At what point did it become a conservative principle that it's right for a man to be arrested, on his own private property, for simply mouthing off to a police officer? I thought conservatives believed in things like private property and limits on government power.

I wonder if Jesus was a profiller?

I love the concept of the Slow Word movement, as one who is often too quick to form and express an opinion. Thank-you for this wonderful sentiment.

Given, I tend to shoot from the hip when it comes to conservative Christians and probably shall always assume the worst when it comes to them.

That said, I think you have touched upon an important point here and I thank you.

One of the worst things to happen in the conservative world of American Christian Politics was for the intellectuals to abandon the party in droves after the downfall of Richard Nixon. What remained was a group of people who are incapable of reflection.

There is nothing we can do about them - just take a look at any random topic over on cruncycon to see how impossible it is to teach a conservative Christian anything.

But if we moderate our tone (I know, I'm a fine one to say that), we may well be heard and listened to by the independent Christians, those who don't define their love of God through hatred of those of us who are gay, transgender or independent thinking women.

Oh, and Tom Balderston, either you haven't been following the news this week on the matter or you should just plain openly admit that you are a racist.

William Brown,
It is common here to refer to those whom we address or from whom we cite by name. An old-fashioned gesture, 'tis true.

Tom Balderston's comment may signify other than ignorance or racism. I, however, am unable to think what else. As a progressive man, perhaps you would be so kind as to suggest another possibility?

Seriously, one of the most annoying things about people who make snide comments about others not being 'progressive' or 'tolerant' or whatever the current double-plus good thinkspeak of the day is, is their own inability to see how verbally abusive they, themselves, are being.

I fear, as regards myself, I am more a slow-thinker than a slow-speaker. You, however, are using the cover of slow words to justify being nasty.

after reading the comment/opinions they are like a__holes, everyone has one.

I always thought that your entry failed means it was not posted, well anyway you got mine twice.

Panthera, I simply pointed out a little bit of the message seemed to be lost on both the author, Ms. Bass, and one of the readers, Panthera. I try to always walk in the other man's (woman's) shoes before I speak (type) and I could not see Christ in the statements. Why is Glen Beck and his reaction, based on "his" experiences, somehow less valid than Mr. Gates'. Beck is a Mormon, they have been ridiculed and impuned for a long time. If the former president, Mr. Bush had characteized someone "a typical [insert race/ethnic identity here] person" then said that it meant they distruted others based only on a superficial trait, I might find it reasonable that the progressives and maybe the conservatives might have called it racist. Had Mr. Bush attended a church for 20 years where the pastor spewed what is viewed by many as anti-american, anti-[pick your favorite race/ethnicity] hate speech, many progressives and conservatives alike may very well have called him a racist. Had Mr. Bush inserted himself in a local legal matter before he knew the facts and then denigrated the officers that responded to a potentially deadly situation, where all officers of all races at the scene said the officer performed properly, many progressives and conervatives alike would probably call him a racist.
I spoke about this with a co-worker (forgive me Panthera for not sharing his name, but I am not sure he would want me to) who happens to be black, he too thinks the officer acted improperly, I am the son of a police officer I do not think he the officer was outside his authority to do what he did. We didn't call names and swear. I have only experienced a taste of discrimination based on my skin color, it has not permeated my daily existence, I get that! I try to understand the other side of the argument and I don't use foul language when conversing with those with whom I disagree [Secondson70]. Maybe you should not just assume Mr. Beck has no experience neyond skin color that forms his viewpoint. And I will add to Mr. Gilmore and Panthera, there was nothing racist I could find in the Balderston post he dimply stated President Obama never actually apologized and that he skirted the issue. I still fail to see any racism, but maybe I am missing the attitude that is talked of in Mr. Gilmore's post. I think that understanding must come from all sides. My step-grandfather was a full blooded Cherokeee, born on the reservation and adopted to be a slave by a white couple from southern Illinois. He ran away at 8 years old and took care of himself till he died at 82. He did not blame all white people for that family's actions, that would be ignorant. He knew they were individuals making individual decisions not based in the inherent ignorance of their pigmintation but just their own unenlightened, unChristlike attitudes and he knew there were others like them. However, he let them prove their ignorance, he did not assume it. I am proud of the man my gradfather was and the example he set before me.
Mr. Gilmore I know a few nice and gentle progressives, and I am always happy to talk with them. You need to drop your rocks too. Remember the whole point is to be Christ-like not dem-rep or pro-con.

William Brown,
Typos on this system are inevitable. If they really bug you, Chrome and Firefox use spell-checkers which work fairly well within this nasty interface. IE and Safri's spell checkers don't work in this interface for me.

Many of the reactions one sees around here are based upon the previous history we share. After a few years of being called every name in the book, told my Christian belief is a sham, my marriage not real and my love equivalent to pederasty or loving a stone...my temper and patience is very thin.

That is certainly my problem to work on.

Personally, I think Obama was right in his assessment - the police did act stupidly by handcuffing and taking Gates in.

When one is in a position of such very great power as the police are (and need to be) then one must also exercise the authority appropriately.

The sergeant did not. He had already established that Gates was in his place of legal residence when he arrested him.

We are living in the US right now, and will until certain family affairs have been completed. Our home, however, is in Europe.

I remember by grandfather telling me about a story his grandfather had told him - this puts us back in the 1870's, not all that long ago. My gr'gr'gr'-grandfather was riding along one day when a peasant did not tip his hat to him. My dear ancestor got down off his horse and whipped him there, in the road.

He could do this with impunity, his title conveyed such power. Had he exercised the authority properly, he would not have done so.

I remember this story twice a year, when I am grading my students' final exams and when compelled to sit on a committee listening to a student defend their thesis. Our power is absolute, as is Crossley's, as was my ancestor's. It is incumbent upon us to exercise this power with authority. Crossley didn't.

It is a bit ironic that you are, rightly, calling me out on me intolerance while defending a policeman's enforcing a policy of 'zero-tolerance'.

This whole affair very much mirrors the state of our relations to and among ourselves in the US after several decades of unresolved culture war.

Why are you ashamed to call yourselves liberals?

I'm not at all. I'm proudly liberal.

Chairman Obama is indeed a racist. But then, this is merely the opinion of a "typical white person".

Chairman Obama?

And your opinion isn't one of a "typical white person." The "typical white person," as is shown by exit polls, voted for President Obama in November 2008. Not only is your opinion not typical, it's not based on anything remotely resembling a fact. Opinions, too, need to be validated by evidence in order to be accepted in discussions between rational people. Simply saying "that's just my opinion" doesn't mean your assertions get to go unchallenged.

It seemed the hate spewing Jeremiah Wright found a disiple in Obama.

Again - evidence. This is a place where rational adults converse; supporting assertions is necessary. Present your evidence.

Excuse me, its Sunday afternoon and I always clean my rifle after church.

Another reference to cleaning your rifle. I still don't understand how exactly that's relevant.

Mr Gilmore
I guess this is not really a place to meet and discuss it's just a place to vent...have fun with that. It is truly tragic that while I at least try to see the point you are making, you lend no credence to the thoughts and opinions of others. This is why the divide continues, everyone has to make their point and give no quarter to the other. I understand that peoples experiences form their opinions and prejudices, our moral point of reference, but I know Jesus was supposed to remove us from those places and give us a different vantage point. I have not gotten there, but I am trying. If you keep striving for your pound of flesh, it will never satisfy, and it will never end.

Panthera
Thank You. As someone who, in service to his country, has sat on the East German Border with guns constantly trained on his position, I understand the police officer a little; his job entails going into potentially life threatening situations everyday...seemingly safe situations can turn deadly at a moments notice, every move they make is questioned, every word they utter is dissected, and this they put up with in order to serve and protect their fellow man, always having to be careful to follow the book, because someone may yell racism, abuse..etc. I was not there, yet every individual who was, except for Professor Gates, says the officer was correct...okay maybe it is the Blue Line at work, but it isn't like he was beaten, it seems that it was a pretty respectful arrest, as arrests go. I know that won't go over well, but I (in a previous life) was arrested in New Orleans during Mardi Gras, and that arrest was anything but respectful and I bear the physical damage to my nervous system to this day, 25 years later, and the charges were dropped, which doesn't mean I wa totally without responsibility, just they weren't goint to try me. The police as a whole are no ones adversary but the criminal's, a single policeman may be, but to assume "one is bad - all are bad" is simply a prejudice, like racism and is the thought process of the ignorant and unforgiving. And for the PRESIDENT to weigh in on it without the facts, simply diminished his moral authority and executive credibility. So I don't quite agree that the officer gave zero tolerance, I have been the recipient of zero tolerance, it was different. Mr. Gates may have felt he was inappropriately targeted based on his race, given; however, had he thought before he spoke (which is what I should have done in New Orleans) and said to himself " there is a public servant who constantly puts his life on the line to keeps drunks off the road, rapists away from our daughters, drug dealers out of our schools and burglars out of our houses, I wonder what is happening?" instead of assuming that the Nazi cop racist pig is on my porch and i am going to drop a load on him that he has not earned, if he had done a little thinking fisrts I suspect if the police officer had arrested him, he would have answered for it and the Professor might indeed have a reason to sue and rightly so. But that is not how it went down. Everyman is responsible for the things he brings to the table.

Thank you Dr. Bass for your thoughtful posting.

a person can only take so much abuse til he explodes. you must walk in our shoes to know how it feels. at barber shops we ask to cut our hair a certain way and we get the lousiest of hair cuts, so we cut our own; at restaurants we are told that there is a sign at the window which reads "no dogs allowed"; at reunions we are made feel inferior; at work we are given menial jobs even if we prove to know more than our supervisor; studies that degrade us and call us mentally challenged.
there used to be a commercial, if you will, where a native american would shed a tear at the sight of what we had poluted. that's in essence how we constantly feel. we want to shout at you guys that are so full of understanding and so full of advice that unless you have walked in our shoes you have no idea as to how it feels.
i empathize with the gates and kings and chavez. we have not done enough to stop the abuse and for that i only blame ourselves. time will not right the wrong. it has to change by our action not our inaction.

William Brown,
I certainly can not speak for the moderators, my understanding, however, is that all are welcome here.

Now, some blogs at beliefnet.com are quite exclusive. Crunchycon welcomes racists but kicks all supporters of gay marriage and those whose arguments pose serious challenges to conservative journalism off their blog.

Most of the Jewish and Pagan blogs here as well as The New Christians encourage people who don't share the moderator's views to interact.

Personally, I am a very progressive Christian on social issues. I firmly believe in human rights for gays, transgender and all people, regardless of skin color or ethnic origin. I also firmly believe in a woman's right to chose, universal health care and education.

I strongly oppose torture but am a firm advocate of the death penalty for drug dealers and those who prey on children or torture animals - Michael Vick is lucky I wasn't responsible for his sentencing, he'd be rotting in the seventh ring of Hades right now, had I been.

Being both a public employee (I teach) as well as a private business owner, I am a firm advocate of the European style of capitalism and not so convinced that the laissez-faire capitalism the Republicans advocate works.

Tho' I believe in global warming, I have my doubts that recycling in separate containers which are then all thrown together is really the solution to our problems.

In other words, by European standards, I am a moderate. By American conservative Christian standards, I am the Anti-Christ.

Worse, I am married to another man. Happily.

I suspect you will find that most people who post on this blog routinely share some of my views, radically disagree on others - we had quite a nasty discussion here last year when some very politically correct demanded I refer to Negroes born in the Carribean as African Americans...and an even nastier one when I wrote that people who abuse children are monsters.

All in all, tho', there are good exchanges here. Most are not as inflammable as I am and you have just happened to walk in on some discussions which I have very strong feelings about.

Christ's teachings are much harder to follow than Paul's. Paul's work is easily perverted by fundamentalists to justify their hatred. Christ's love doesn't excuse us from trying even when it seems futile. My greatest failing, by the way.

“I strongly oppose torture but am a firm advocate of the death penalty for drug dealers and those who prey on children or torture animals - Michael Vick is lucky I wasn't responsible for his sentencing, he'd be rotting in the seventh ring of Hades right now, had I been.”

What is sad about your progressive attitude towards the Word is your views towards life in general. You would convict and put to death Vick for animal abuse……but you are pro-abortion, even partial birth abortion and condone the millions of murders that have taken place since Roe. You think a woman has a right to kill. How warped is that?

“In other words, by European standards, I am a moderate. By American conservative Christian standards, I am the Anti-Christ.”

By Biblical standards and the way you interpreter the Word you are a liberal. You condone certain sins above others.

“Christ's teachings are much harder to follow than Paul's.”

No they aren’t. Not if you love and give him the reins. And it doesn't matter how hard one thinks the rules are, they are to be followed. Rules about sin aren’t for a select few they are for all mankind. Jesus made it clear what sin was. You struggle with accepting certain rules.
If you only looked at what CHRIST said that’s all YOU would need to live by. But I believe that the entire Bible was God breathed like it says, therefore those that penned the Word were handpicked by God.

Standing on the Word does not mean one hates another. Christ gave us the Bible for a specific reason. It is our guide on how to live. Because I believe sex outside marriage, same sex relationships are sinful if they involve sex does not mean I hate the people. No more than I would hate someone else in sin. The fact is I sin, I repent and I try never to do it again. That is the key, knowing when you do something against God, repenting and making it right. Those that love me help me, they keep me in check because they love me. My mother often would ask me kindly and with love if I thought my actions were aligned with Gods Word.

Unfortunately you think if someone disagrees with you about something, they hate you and are out to get you. I believe in my heart that you are a kind person and I am sure you love your partner. But I also believe you are sinning based on what the Word says. I love the Word and will follow it.

"Progressive" and mainline churches are about as diverse as Vermont or North Dakota and whiter than sour cream.
I get a massive kick out of watching groups with the demographic profile of New Hampshire and an average age of 54+ talk about "celebrating their diversity" and "renewal".
Still wondering why people don't take mainline churches seriously?