Amen!
I was present throughout the ELCA convention as a volunteer for Goodsoil, an LGBT advocacy group. I may attend the Presbyterian convention next summer, which will also be in Mpls. I think something’s in the water from the 10,000 lakes we boast.
My guess is that some folks will exit the ELCA stage right, but others will enter stage left. While the numbers may not change, the tenor of the church may become more progressive.
You may follow my impressions from the assembly floor as the events played out at: http://theliberalspirit.com.

In my opinion…Those who choose to leave because of any church becomming more inclusive and less intollerant, the church can well do without since in all likelyhood, such foolish hate filled people would only wind up dishonoring said churches at some point anyways.
And the guest blogger is right when he points out that the new blood comming in will only make for better spiritual growth.
Blessed be.

Please read this and may you allow God to guide You in HIS Infinite Wisdom Romans 1:21-32 (New International Version) 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Please change your way of thinking before is too late to do so. We don’t have the assurance of tomorow and the consequences that follow certain actions have too great of a price tag (The Loss of Your Immortal Soul among others). Matthew 16:26 (New International Version) 26What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?. Ecclesiastes 11:9-10 (New International Version) 9 Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment. 10 So then, banish anxiety from your heart and cast off the troubles of your body, for youth and vigor are meaningless.

It makes me feel good to see religions finally opening their doors to all people. Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people have a disproportionately high rate of suicide and depression due to the negative reactions they receive from those around them. Having a religion also shun them, especially one like Christianity where everyone is supposed to love one another, can just push them over the edge.
I’m a transgender woman and have finally come to love and accept myself for who I am. Over the years I tried everything to “cure” me, one of which was diving wholeheartedly into Christianity for many years. I had been atheist or at least agnostic from a very early age. During the many years I was in the church I participated in all I could, small study groups, multiple church services per week, Christian counseling (where my therapist just gave me reading assignments on how to be a better Christian man), etc.
But over the years the one and only constant thing that came through is that my religion hated me because of who I was. Full body immersion baptism didn’t change that. My love for Christ and my fellow man didn’t change that. My celibacy didn’t change that. My church stated clearly that the GLBT community was in need of being “straightened out.”
Over the years of my life I have seen religion used to justify utterly horrible treatment towards the GLBT community. So called Reparation Therapy, denying GLBT people their civil rights, justification of hateful actions (the Phelps clan of crazies comes to mind), families justifying disowning their GLBT children, etc. So I returned whence I came from, atheism and humanism philosophy.
It does warm my heart to see some religions beginning to accept people in the GLBT community and gives me hope for those much younger than myself; maybe they will find their acceptance in their church and from their families. One day I hope to see all religions so enlightened.
And to Jonah that posted above:
Well, the Bible can be like statistics and numbers, taken in different contexts each can be used to prove about whatever you want to. Like this passage from 2 Samuel 1:26 (NASB) where David proclaims to Jonathan “I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; you have been very pleasant to me. Your love to me was more wonderful than the love of women.” Sounds like David had more than a passing interest in his boy Jonathan.
Or in Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10 where a Centurion asks Jesus to heal his beloved servant; in that day and age it was not uncommon in the Roman culture for masters to have sexual relations with their male slaves or other boys. But I digress…

These acts and opinions disturb my spirit greatly. I don’t understand how people could dishonor church by making a stand for the founder of it. It is not the people(sinners) that are the source of anger but the behavior(sin). If you read 2 Timothy 3 & 4 it lays out everything that is occurring. If read with the guidance of the Holy Spirit scripture will not be misconstrued and truth will be revealed.

I think you make a very good point about recognizing not only the individuals, but also gay people in their relationships. My experience has been that while LGBT people are welcome to come into the church, it seems to be more comfortable for some to see us as eunuchs rather than as people who have a life-long partnership rivaling some marriages. So that is a very interesting point.
As for those who disagree with the Lutherans and the Episcopalians: the Good News is that God is love. And God loves all of us… including the ones we’d hope he wouldn’t love. How much more should we be going out into the world, loving our neighbors as ourselves?

Jonah-you are misled as many who follow the Bible are-the Bible is NOT God-the council of Nicea proves this-look it up. Many passages in the OT are evil-selling your dauighter, stoning, murder, rape, etc
Elizabeth-I pary you find God some day-the real God-the God of love-God does not make gay peopel then condemn them-that doens’t make sense
The REAL God is not concerned with matters of the flesh-He only cares that we do right by others and embrace them-that is all-you are being tested-do not fail lest you risk your immortal soul
Look into your heart, cast away your hate and find Him

I do so want to be as optimistic as you are. Well written piece, by the way, and I join you in celebrating this step in the right direction.

It is a step in the right direction.
I find it far to easy to overlook the positive changes in this culture when surrounded by so many people making really stupid decisions.
Healthcare reform and the opposition among conservative Christians comes to mind, to name just one.
I miss my church back home in Europe. Very traditional, very welcoming, very happy to have my husband and me.
Right now, we are driving two hundred miles every Saturday night, staying with distant relations (so distant, we are both related to them) and going to a wonderful church which accepts our marriage. Back home Sunday afternoon (without the dog for a week, keep your fingers crossed for puppies, we’d get pick of the litter).
In our area in the US, there is not single, solitary church which welcomes us.
Sad.
Keep up the good work and don’t worry about those who will “leave”. They are invariably the ones who do the least to help people in the community and do the most to spread hatred. Good riddance.

Has anyone read the book of Leviticus lately??? While society has become accepting of many wrongs, many perversions, Gods law remains a rock in these dark times. It is unlikely that one can claim to be a christian and live a homosexual lifestyle. Homosexuality is in fact a “perversion” much like any other sexual perversion. While some are child molesters, some rapists, some are into bondage. Being sexually atytracted to the same sex is nothing more than a perversion. Society demands that the child molester controls his or her perversion( at least they still do at the time I right this). They have allowed the perverse behavior between adults to manifest itself. Which explains the “explosion” of homosexuality in recent years. But, beware brothers and sisters……Gods laws to not change just because society says so. Who will you stand before on the day of judgement??? Other Homosexuals?? You will stand before the Almighty God, and what reason will you give Him for ignoring His law?? For twisting His word to suit your perversions?

I do not judge you…..I pray for you everyday…that you will control your perverse behavior and turn to God’s word. ALL OF IT. I love you all

todd Kundert,
You equal us to child molesters and then say you love us?
It is exactly because of Christians like you that gay Christians find it so very important that the Lutherans have chosen to follow God’s way and not man’s in permitting us to serve in the ministry.
Every time a conservative Christian says one of us is being unfair to claim we are denied human status and civil rights, I want to clip and paste a post like yours.
True Christian love means charity. You can’t be charitable as long as you refuse to accept what science and medicine have taught us.
Being gay or transgender is not a sin, we are simply part of God’s wonderful plan for His natural world.
Comparing our love which is predicated on mutual acceptance to that of a monster preying on children is not only deeply false, it is to insult and agitate at the most base level. Your ‘love’ is hatred.

I love all of God’s children. You have simply chose to follow a path of perversion. I pray that you will follow the path to heaven. Just because you reside on this planet does not make you a “part of God’s plan”. He gave us free will, what you choose to do with that is entirely up to you. Is the serial killer accepted by God? Is the rapist? Is the satan worshipper? No. Only those who ask for His forgiveness and repent(turn away from their sin) are accepted into His kingdom. We cannot pick and choose which scriptures and which books of the bible we believe in. The bible is taken as a whole or not at all. According to God homosexuality is an “abomination”. Part of a world that has turned ugly. But I tell you….you are a necessary part of the end times. I welcome you. I love you as a part of the “end of God’s plan”. Have a wonderful Blessed Day!

Look what He did to Sodom . Does that look like He was happy with them??

O. My. Word.
Now he compares us to serial killers, rapists and Satan worshippers.
OK, all you Christians out there who insisted you loved me and were not hateful in any way, shape or form to homosexuals. This is your chance to prove it.
Any of you want to tell Todd Kundert why his attacks are way off base?

I urge all Christians to read their bibles.
God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.
When a church allows men and woman who are engaged in
any behavior that God’s word strictly prohibits it is
a gross abomination to our creator.
The bible does warn of false teaching and embracing any
doctrine other than Jesus Christ.
Did Christ give his life for you to live the way you
want and not by the using the basic information before
leaving earth guide, which is I say again is the bible.

Todd Kundert: I guess you need to read a little more of your Leviticus. In that book of the Bible a multitude of things are listed as unclean/perversions that run of the mill Christians partake in on a daily basis. Shrimp, clams, oysters, crabs, lobster, pork, etc. are all forbidden foods yet are considered by a lot of Christians a treat or delicacy.
The Old Testament also promoted polygamy, the marriage and sexual intercourse with very young brides (around 13 years old), Levirate marriage (husband dies before his wife bears children so she is forced to marry his brother and have his children), slavery was perfectly alright in the Old Testament as well as sex with slaves, you aren’t supposed to have sex with a woman on her menstrual cycle as she is unclean, semen was considered unclean as well.
If your children disobeyed your wishes in the Old Testament you were called to stone them to death, how many of your children have you killed so far? Also forbidden was exogamy (marriage to non-Israelites), the naming of sexual organs, nudity, masturbation, birth control; whereas it allowed prostitution, polygamy, slavery, sex with slaves, concubinage, the treatment of women as property, etc.
Do you see how outmoded your thinking is yet? Parts of the Bible read like a Marquis De Sade text. The Bible was unfortunately created by man and man is very fallible, it was further edited for content at the council of Nicea by men. To continue to take literally words that were written way too long ago is to doom yourself to failure, you must progress and alter yourself to the world as it changes.
Your Bible is nothing more than a fable of epic proportions on the scale of Homer. The fact that so many people take it literally instead of as a way to live a good life scares me to death…

Amen Patti. Zb…. If you read the teachings of Christ , He declares all things to be eaten “clean” in the New Testament. He does not however, say that sexual misconduct is ok. To say that the Bible is nothing more than fable is an abomination in itself. The way to salvation is not by good works, but by living by the word of God. I do not say that you are equal to serial killers or child molesters. Only that they are all perversions.
If tomorrow society said that it was ok to have sex with children, by next week there would be child molester survivor, child molester reality shows, child molester rights protests. It is not society we have to please…if you do not believe that the bible is true…you are already in danger. All these other sins you mention from the old testament are still sins. Just because Dr. Ruth says its ok to masterbate, it doesn’t override the word of God.
I hate NOONE. I would give the shirt off my back for anyone straight or gay. But I still pray that you will come to know God and turn from this sinful behavior.

Todd again,
You keep comparing us to child molesters.
What part of the clear scientific and medical evidence showing we are normal, healthy and perfectly sane people don’t you understand?
Honestly, you are using the Bible as an excuse to be able to advance your hatred towards gays.

Why do you insist that whoever doesn’t agree with you….hates you??
Sodomy is a perversion like it or not. There is nothing normal about a man having sex with a man. Or woman with woman. You ARE a child of God…..just misguided by a world gone astray.
Again….I don’t hate you…I love you.

Todd,
You are so far wrong, it is impossible to even know were to begin.
First, with the exception of christianist wackos, the entire medical and scientific community – even in the United States – is in agreement that we are not perverted, not disordered and not in need of being ‘cured’.
Second, sex with my husband is normal, for me. It wouldn’t be for you, tho’ the passion you evidence on this issue is typical of closet cases, so who knows. Heterosexuals should have sex with other heterosexuals. Gays should have sex with gays.
Third, we are married. A committed, loyal, faithful, true, monogamous, legal partnership. Sex is reserved to just us and nobody else and has been for over 25 years now.
Forth, I don’t care what you do behind the closed doors of your church of a Sunday. I very much care that you feel you have the right to deny my human and civil rights.
Fifth, if this is your concept of love, then I am quite certain your definition of love for God is hatred of the other.

1 Corinthians 6:9 “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be decieved: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders….”
Leviticus 18:22 “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable”
Romans 1:26-27 “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and recieved in themselves the due penalty for their perversion”
1 Timothy 1:10 “The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine”
But most importantly —- 2 Thessalonians 3:14 “If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother”
I want to make note of these as solid examples of the scriptures stance against living life in lust, living life being led by the brain inbetween our legs. The push for gay rights for our country’s future is a faulted pursuit that I feel if we continue to seek, will confuse our kids even more. I hope all of you remember how confusing being a kid already was. And weren’t we always taught and continue to teach that making decisions thinking with our genitals (lol erections) is the worst way to make a decision? With that thought, i connect the entire gay movement to this idea, because it is a political push entirely based on sex….really? Politically (and morally) we are so confused now that we can’t sit back and say that an entire legislation movement stemming from in between our legs is the wrong place to begin a sensible conversation? Come on America. And lastly, as an African-American male, it really burns me to hear people connecting the gay movement to that of civil rights. The civil rights movement was one of black people fighting to be able to remove themselves from poverty and starvation? (Which still hasnt entirely came lol) But I’m insulted that the necessaty for food, financial potential, being able to stay alive that blacks battled for which are needs, are compared to a movement that is based on sex, a want.

Well you should also remember that your precious Bible supported having other people as slaves, does that mean we should reverse the Emancipation Proclimation? Start plantations again? No, because we have evolved, we have moved on and tried to provide equality to people, not keep them as property.
Jesus also preached that divorce is a sin, check out Luke 16:18 and Mark 10:12. Not allowing the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender population marry another consenting adult is indeed discrimination. Don’t you remember Jim Crow and “separate but equal?” Domestic partnerships/civil unions are the same thing all over again and the main argument that many use against gay marriage is *drum roll* the Bible. Maybe allowing the LGBT community to wed would help the abysmal 50% divorce rate that our country currently boasts. Any marriage can be said to be about what’s “in between our legs” as some people would have you believe.
In a lot of areas around the country it IS still legal to fire someone for being gay/lesbian; to evict them from housing, to refuse to serve them at a restaurant, to refuse service at libraries, schools and homeless shelters. The percentage of places where it is legal to do these same things to the transgender community jumps drastically to about 80% of the United States. This is denying people a living, making them live in poverty……civil rights. The main reason against denying these people their rights, because the Bible says so.
It warms my heart to see an organization like the Lutheran church welcoming the LGBT into their fold. If people find comfort in religion then good for them; as long as that religion doesn’t try to impose its views upon others and deny them their rights. I think that the religious sects are starting to realize the error of their previous ways by shutting out a whole portion of the population, it’s a blessed evolution of something that has been so repressive in the past.
I was born an atheist/agnostic but did come to find God in my early 20′s. I prayed and went to church without a reservation in my heart and was baptized willingly. God did not take away my problems, did not ease them and I was told basically by my pastor to grin and bear it. For me, a loving God would not make someone live a life in pain and suffering. I moved on, was able to admit my transsexuality and fix my life; it’s far from perfect but my spirit is now at ease. Atheism/humanism is my route (with a bit of buddhism thrown in) but for those that find joy in Christ then good for them and good for the Christian sects that take them in.

Artboy,
I decided to leave this group of threads yesterday. The entire focus across all the threads had pretty much narrowed down to me fighting with the conservative Christians and there wasn’t much opportunity for anybody else to contribute anything of value.
There will be other threads on which we can continue our discussion.
I did, however, say rape, murder, torture and beatings. Add in the beatings and you will find that sad number. If I left out ‘beatings’ in one mention, I do apologize.
Oh, and URLs get beaten up on this system frequently. Don’t know why, either I enter them incorrectly of the gotcha! messes with them.
We will never agree, but I do appreciate that you are capable of reasoned discourse. When people who say they love me back constitutional limitations on my rights (gays are the only group to ever have their constitutional rights stripped from the in the US!) it is very hard, indeed, to consider that love.
But enough, when I leave a thread, I leave it. Just logged back in to do you the same courtesy you have done me.
Oh, and for the idiot saying I am a sock-puppet for Tony Jones: Wrong. Tony is an honorable man who doesn’t resort to such games. Nor, for that matter, do I. What a wonderful display of Christian charity that was. Not.

Sigh.
I really, truly, do not like this gotcha! interface.
Sorry about that, folks. My comment to this thread was replaced by one I wrote for another thread.
Out of time for now, will try back later.
Could someone at beliefnet. please do something about this horrible software?

EndOfTheWorld,
I think we will never agree on whether being gay is ‘sinful’ or not. If you take the Bible literally, every single sentence, then, I am sure we will not.
Of course, if you do take the Bible literally, then by supporting equal rights for Negroes, you are working against the Word of the Lord, as you understand it.
That is the problem with literal, unreflected viewpoints.
One of the myths which many conservative Christians have about homosexuals is based on the belief that all we do is run around looking for sex. This is false.
Oh, sure, just as there are some heterosexual men who think of nothing else and do nothing else, so there are also some gays like that.
That is only a small group. I don’t judge my heterosexual friends on the basis of a few sluts like Brittany Speers and her marriages which only last a few hours. Please don’t judge me on the basis of only sex.
My husband and I live in a committed, monogamous, faithful, true, loyal and loving relationship. We have been together for 25 years. He has covered me with his body when I was attacked and nearly beaten to death. He has changed jobs at the peak of his career to help me take care of my elderly parents, who live in another country. We have raised generations of hounds, built a real life together and I am proud to say we will soon have been legally married (our home country is in Europe) for five years.
Reducing our love and affection to only sex is just plain wrong. Inaccurate and false.
Now, I agree with you that, bad as it it, the situation for gays in America is not at horrible as it was for Negroes. We are only denied human and civil rights, you were enslaved. After the civil war, in many ways, your status was worse than before.
This was a very unchristian thing.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks both said that homosexuals also deserved civil rights. Can you imagine that granting us civil rights is not an attack on your fight? It isn’t.
Two things you might want to consider. First, the same percent of Negroes are homosexual as are all the other races on this planet. Civil rights for gays is not a color issue.
Second, no other group in America suffers so badly from homosexuals committing suicide in their teens as do Negroes. The lack of compassion for young homosexuals in the conservative Black churches has nothing to do with Christ’s love. You can oppose us, you can retain your beliefs we are sinners, you can reject everything medicine, science and commons sense tells us, but the treatment of these young people is shamefully unchristian.
If you can’t support my love, fine, ok. Please, don’t put your conviction ahead of my civil rights, tho’. That mob in California which took away my constitutional right to marriage last year used exactly the same arguments against interracial marriage just a few generations before. Many, very many of them opposed your status as a human until their great mug-wump decided you were just a few decades ago.
If my rights can be stripped so easily, yours aren’t safe, either. Just the opposite. By opposing civil rights for me, you are opening the door for the hateful ones to attack your people again.

endoftheworld-the OT rules were for the jewish priests-nothing in that book matters anymore
Otehrwise, you go to hell for mixing fabrics, cutting bangs, etc
religious nutballs…if only you fools knew that the bible has nothing to do with God…

“if only you fools knew that the bible has nothing to do with God…”
okay, “expert”, what DOES the Bible have something to do with? Quite the reaction for a book just like any other – but without meaning, of course.
Denying the truth of the Bible and then using the Bible as a basis for arguing against the Bible, is, well ABSURD.

For being a website dealing with religious issues, there sure are a lot of anti-religious bigots here.

Now, for an actual religious reply. The author fails to mention that the Lutheran group going through with these changes, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, is the most liberal of all the Lutheran bodies by far. This is due largly to the groups lack of any concrete standards. The ELCA’s value system is decided by popular vote. Very popular in our society today. But, as shallow as shallow gets from a spiritual standpoint. These are not the views of the rest of the Lutheran world. The majority of Missouri and Wisconsin Synod members (both of which hold more conservative, traditional Lutheran views) should not be thrown in with the ELCA.

I have been a Luthern all of my life, 53 yrs, I was Baptised in the Luthern Church, Confirmed in the Luthern Church, I will not quote the bible as others for I am not a scholar of the Holy Word. I try to keep in mind the Bible was written by man and has all of his biases, however I for one am struggling with this decision. I do not judge ones choices in life, I have had to ask for forgiveness way too many times myself for sin I have committed to do that. I feel unfortunate that I now have to chose between my church, perhaps that’s the problem, and my belief that knowingly acknowledging support for something I have been taught is a sin now positions me in a manner that it puts me at odds with the one constant in my life I was able to fall back on for comfort and support.

I am not a Lutheran but I am a Christian. I agree with the steps that some churches are taking to live the Word of God and not just talk it. So many religions overlook their own misgivings and become judgmental of others. I don’t remember reading (and I do reading) Jesus saying “thou shalt not be a homosexual”
However, I do remember God saying the 10 Commandments which include not lying, cheating, committing adultery, stealing. But, I do know that it says to love your neighbor as yourself and honor thy mother and thy father. Religious people tend to be judgmental and forget the log that is in their eye because they are looking at the speck in the eye of the one he fails to call his brother or sister.
I know a priest (Fr. Jim Callan) who is loved by many and he ministered at Corpus Christi. He had a great following. He allowed LGBT to join the choir and a female preach (who has since become a Rev.) For this, he was ex-communicated from the church. He did not stop his ministry and 80% of the church followed. Of all the churches that I have attended, this one has shown more traits than any other of the love of Christ. They reach out to ALL and are all-inclusive. They have started many outreaches including a mental outreach where those in the medical field donate their time. They have never asked anything from the congregation that they didn’t get more of. I believe Moses had the same outcome. This church, Spiritus Christi (Spirit Christ), truly lives up to its name. .
I applaud the steps that the Lutheran and Episcopal churches are taking to further the Gospel and I hope that they don’t get discouraged. The Holy Spirit is our Guide, let Him guide you.
My name means salvation and that is what I wish for ALL of God’s people.

Todd, I hope and pray that the Holy Spirit gives you eyes to see and ears to hear. You are quoting from Leviticus. Do you also believe that the garments the Catholic leaders are the garments that every church leader should wear? Do you also believe that garments of different fibers should not be intermixed?
I find it disconcerting that you would consider child molesters and others as having problems and homosexuality as perverse. Perhaps you should read more than Leviticus.
I honestly believe that your comments are made to get others to engage in conversation with you or to play “devil’s advocate”.
I wanted to reply to you to give you further homework but I do not intend to feed your need to further this propaganda.

I am one of those who has left the ELCA. Not just because of the issues about sexuality, but from a general theological drift away from classical Lutheranism regarding Biblical interpretation, adherence to the Lutheran Confessions, “re-imaging” God in terms of “feminist theology” and just a lot of things I can no longer in good conscience live with.
I’m not going to quote any Biblical verses, because I think most of us know what they are. I will say this: there is NO passage of Scripture supporting homosexuality, whether or not it be in “committed, same-sex relationships” or pub-crawling the gay bars. This is where I stand, and if some want to call it “hateful” or “homophobic,” go ahead. I know the truth, and I am neither “hateful” nor “homophobic.”
My most likely route is a return to the LCMS, but I am also looking at the American Association of Lutheran Churches. Are either of those perfect? No, absolutely not. However, at least there is some consistency of application of doctrinal standards, which the ELCA has not had for quite some time.
Actually, I was not really surprised that the ELCA took this move, because there has been a “wink, wink” approach with the standards that were already on the books regarding homosexual ordination. In short, for about the past two years, they’ve just been words on a page. So at least the ELCA has come clean about where it really stands…and it is not something I am standing with.

So much emotion, so little thought; so much social conformity, and so little reverence for The Revelation of God.
To the clear application of The Word of God from Jonah, I add the words of Luther, who must be of some interest to the ELCA:
“…I find that there’s nothing but godliness in marriage. To be sure, when I consider marriage, only the flesh seems to be there. Yet my father must have slept with my mother and made love to her, and they were nevertheless godly people. All the patriarchs and prophets did likewise. The longing of a man for a woman is God’s creation – that is to say, when nature’s sound, not when it’s corrupted …”
The ELCA has lost its way, having plucked up its roots in sola scriptura and planted them firmly into the dung of culture worship.

Hello? Sodom and Gomorrha? Romans 1? Genesis 2:20-25? Why are we still arguing this? There is not one scripture in the Bible that even remotely suggests that homosexuality is anything less than detestable in God’s sight. Why even pretend otherwise? It’s just as detestable as any other sin – including that of judgmentalism, hypocrisy, fornication, etc… It’s a sin, people. If you don’t like it take it up with God.
I think the real beef (and a pretty legitimate one) is that many of us act like scripture is saying that it is the homosexuals that are detestable in God’s sight. God forgive us. They are not. Neither are liars, adulterers, thieves, or even judgmental hypocrites. It is our sins that offend God. Yours and mine. Why would He send his Son to die for creatures He detests? God’s love is for all of us, and He desires that not one of us be lost. Surely we can agree on that right?
Then why do so many of us treat homosexuals as if their sin is worse than ours? Conversely, why do some of us believe that they don’t deserve to be told the truth – that homosexuality is a sin, and that God loves them enough to forgive them if they repent, turn their sinfulness over to God and trust Him? After all, how can someone be forgiven of their sin if they are told that their sin is – magically – not a sin? Isn’t that just as cruel as judgmentalism?

The Lutherans are following culture and worshipping at an odd altar. Christians should love homosexuals — and there are many hiding out in the churches of all denominations — but the object of this love should be to help those who are acting out on same-sex attractions find a way out of the lifestyle.
Temptation is not a sin, but acting on sinful temptations is. The Bible is clear that those who are homosexual — regardless of the reason — should, through the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit, work through the issue and reject the sin of acting out. It’s not easy, as I know from experience, as a man who has struggled against unwanted same-sex attraction for far too many years, struggling also against what I know is God’s will for me. God is unchanging, regardless of the outcomes of debates within our denominational leadership.
It may be that some “gay” men and women never move beyond the temptations, never find them completely removed from their lives. Resisting is not easy, but redemption is free for all. The decision by the Lutherans to put a human stamp of approval on a lifestyle clearly identified as sinful will not benefit their denomination or its members . . . and certainly does noe reflect God’s design for man.
Thom Hunter
http://thom-signsofastruggle.blogspot.com/

What is it with the Christians commenting on this article saying the ELCA is a “culture worshiping” church? Whenever a debate about same-sex marriage comes up conservatives are quick to say that most people are against same-sex marriage. Furthermore, polls show that a majority of Americans don’t even believe in the doctrine of evolution. That’s a pretty strong indicator of our culture. Of all Western nations we have the lowest belief in scientific evidence. If all of this is the case, then clearly our culture is not pro LGBT, and thus the Lutherans are not culture worshipers or followers or whatever the right wingers want to say it is. Just accept that they have their beliefs and you have yours.