Progressive Revival

Vatican Woos Conservative Anglicans: This is News?

Thursday October 22, 2009

This week, the Vatican announced that it would make it easier for conservative Anglicans and Episcopalians--those uncomfortable with women priests and accepting gay people--to join the Roman Catholic Church.  The move surprised Anglican leaders who, evidently, had no idea...
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Comments
revdocdavem@aol.com
October 22, 2009 10:48 AM
http://revdocdavem@aol.com

Diana, the news is in an open door to several new married clergy, I think -- at least for the media. If it's sexy it sells. Oh to be a faithfully married Catholic/Anglican priest with the starpower of a newsmaker like Father Cutie!

Rev. Fran Ota
October 22, 2009 11:01 AM

Diana, this is my experience as well. In virtually every wedding I conduct, either the bride or groom is Roman Catholic looking elsewhere. There are new families coming in the door of the church - not in droves, but numbers enough to notice, whose first words are "We're Catholic but we don't want to raise our kids in the Castholic church." Ditto for baptisms.

However, I am really somewhat appalled at the blatant attempts of the Roman Church to grab more membership and, truth be told, find a few more ordained men to replace those who have left. That isn't the answer to their problem.

David Justin Lynch
October 22, 2009 11:48 AM
http://www.attorneylynch.com

This is distressing news. It is an aggressive assault. Time for countermeasures, such as an all-out conversion drive aimed at the classic issues that have always brought Romans to us. start with divorce, birth control, abortion, women clergy, and lack of respect for differing opinions.

Don Heatley
October 22, 2009 12:02 PM
http://www.donheatley.com

Great points, Diana. It sounds to me as if the Vatican is just doing what many Protestant churches here in the Northeast have done for years. Although not as overt about it, many mainline churches have subtly "sold" themselves to lapsed Catholics as a church where you can be divorced and take communion, get remarried, use birth control, be pro-choice etc.. I don't mean to imply we are deceitful, just that our membership rolls have benefitted from dissatisfied Catholics, as you rightly point out. Now the Vatican is benefitting from dissatisfied Anglicans. Ah... the circle of life.

BTW, Diana nice having the chance to meet you in person in Minneapolis.

A deacon in my own Church, thank you very much
October 22, 2009 2:59 PM

In the Church I was raised in, this would be called sheep stealing.

The reality is that the Anglican Church (and any other) is just as able to be welcoming to disaffected Catholics. The reasons one might wish to leave the Catholic Church are myriad.

Heck, we could set up an official prisoner exchange.

Chris
October 22, 2009 3:20 PM

You know, it seems to me that this article is really about turf, and supporting a turf war, at that.

By picking on less important issues, such as women's rights, homosexuals, etc, you have effectively lost why this is such a big deal in the life of the Christian church at large-- and that is the notion of truth.

Christ didn't institute 30,000 different churches, with differing versions of truth-- He instituted one, and only once Christian body in the world has the evidence to support her claim as that One Church, the one founded by Christ, headed in Rome by the successor of Peter. (Mt. 16:18)

It makes sense that in our society today, any number of you would lose concept of an objective truth, towards more of an individualistic "feeling" of what is right or wrong, but sorry, either 2+2=4, or it doesn't. Tell me honestly, have any of you ever looked at the Catholic Church's teachings on anything? Actually read what they teach? It would amaze you.

This is a time of great joy, and should be acknowledged as such, for the opportunity is being made easier for large numbers to come back all together to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

The invitation is extended to you, as well.

Judy Knighton
October 22, 2009 3:33 PM

The ‘conservative’ ‘liberal’ labels should not be significant to what will happen next, except in so far as the lack of teaching authority displayed in the Anglican church has caused some of its members to question whether this is what scripture described.

My understanding is that those asking for this move were already convinced about Catholic teaching on disputed points, but didn’t want to lose their Anglican tradition.

The key is sola scriptorum. Once you reach the conclusion that the Catholic view on this – that scripture and tradition are equally inspired by the Holy Spirit – is correct, then you have only to decide which church has the body of inspired tradition, and join it.

I was a liberal when I converted from Anglicanism to Catholicism. Once I had decided that it was illogical that Jesus meant 38,000 denominations when he talked about his church, I decided the weight of historical evidence was with the Catholic Church. Whether or not I agreed with every point of doctrine, dogma and practice was irrelevant.

However, I was not asked to leave my brain at the door. Though I’ve changed my view on some matters as I’ve understood them better, I’m not an uncritical minion – nor does my church require me to be so. In fact, I am urged by the great church fathers to put my conscience, my informed conscience, ahead of any other consideration.

Many liberals may well reach the conclusion that I did, if they consider the real meat of the matter. Many conservatives will stick to sola scriptorum and stay put.

Your Name
October 22, 2009 3:58 PM

"Tell me honestly, have any of you ever looked at the Catholic Church's teachings on anything? Actually read what they teach? It would amaze you."

More like 'It made me wanna hurl.'

Kurt Hill
October 22, 2009 4:00 PM

Look on the bright side--–maybe the Brits can clean out the Anglo Papalists once and for all from the CofE. Although I’m an Anglo Catholic Episcopalian, most of us American High Churchmen/women don’t have much time for the type of Anglo Papalism that is so present in the Church of England. This particular school of thought has never been very popular in TEC---not since the Rev. Paul Wattson took the Franciscan Friars of the Atonement to Rome in 1907. Our anti-Roman, anti-authoritarian attitude no doubt also reflects the native American High Church tradition, and the fact that the Catholic Revival began here about 1783, rather than 1833 as in England. In fact, our American revival undoubtedly influenced the one in the UK (eg, Bishop JH Hobart’s visit to England in the 1820s, for example.)

Kurt Hill
Brooklyn, NY

Laura
October 22, 2009 4:01 PM

I've said for years that we ought to set up an exchange between the RC and Episcopal churches - they take those who don't like women priests and out gay people in ministry and we get the Catholic Workers. I think it would work out great!

D Bosley
October 22, 2009 4:33 PM

There are 2 billion Christians on this globe and over a billion of them are Roman Catholic. I'm not sure that qualifies as "sagging membership." In contrast, the Episcopal Church has lost 200,000 communicants in the last five years - that's 200,000 out of a total of approximately 2.1 million. Now that's "sagging membership."

Kurt Hill
October 22, 2009 4:58 PM

If it were not for the influx of Latin American immigrants, the Church of Rome here would be “sagging” even worse!

Ann Moczydlowski
October 22, 2009 8:37 PM

My hope would be that each person worships God in a place that feels congenial to her/his spirit..... I'm not particularly interested in numbers or "sheep stealing" so much as I am in how well we honor the divine spark in one another, feed hungry people, etc. Peace and all good to us all...wherever we gather.

Your Name
October 23, 2009 1:06 PM

Yes, I've read what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, and, no, I am not amazed. What does amaze me is how the RC Church can go on throughout the centuries without ever once admitting the need for repentance. Mistakes were made, they might admit that, but that those mistakes might lead to self-examination and changes? No, as long as they perceive themselves to be the one, perfect church, they cannot allow for anything approaching repentance. Everyone else must change, return to Rome and its ways, no matter how wrong they might have been. The tragedy of denominations is not just a protestant problem. The Roman Catholic Church in its stubbornness and error bears a great deal of responsiblity, both historically and presently. Inspiration is not the same thing as perfection--we are followers of Christ, not Christ himself. Christ's church will always need to be reformed, after all, we follow a Savior who calls us to repentance. Until the RC can admit that, its claim to be the one true church is an illusion.

ScottM
October 23, 2009 1:30 PM

"...a massive sheep stealing campaign." WHAT A HOOT! Dianna, you had me laughing so hard I nearly hurt myself...thanks for that!

Joyful papist
October 23, 2009 4:34 PM

Catholic teaching is contained in the Catechism, which can be found here: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

It is extensively footnoted, to show where teachings come from. 90% of the footnotes are to scripture, and most of the rest to people from the early centuries of the church.

If I understand "your name" correctly, he/she is saying that even if the teachings are correct, actions of individuals claiming to speak for the church mean he/she is not going to agree.

I'm not coming home till daddy apologises?

lentes
October 24, 2009 1:11 AM

All Pope Benedict is trying to do is lay the foundations for an Anglican Use/Rite Catholic Church, similar to all the other 22 or so Catholic Churches linked up to Rome (i.e., Chaldean Catholic Church, Maronite, Byzantine Catholic Church, etc.) so that it can shuttle future converts to their own Anglican Rite Catholic Church and have a Church for the Anglican Use parishes in the US. Nothing more!

Greg
October 24, 2009 1:04 PM

Seriously, folks. "Nothing more?" The Roman Church has not made this kind of foray into the life of another tradition for centuries. This is not poll-reading, Diana, this is a significant move to provide a means for healing the breach with the Anglican tradition,
at least the Anglo-Catholic wing. Pope Benedict XVI does not respond
to polls. He is reckoning with the very likely re-allignment of Christianity in the 21st century with those who appeal to what has been called the Great Tradition on one side and liberal/revisionists on the other while the "mushy middle" continues to shrink. He is also likely looking at the global picture and not the U.S. particular.
Only Americans still think they are the center of Christianity. Receptivity to the papal offer may be much more significant outside the U.S. than inside. The Holy Spirit continues to move among the churches of the great tradition. Other spirits are,I believe, at work among the mainline religionists.

Catalina
October 25, 2009 12:40 AM

As a Catholic (Liberal) I find it extremely funny that this is happening. The church is loosing many people so what better way to gain - let's invite the conservative Anglicans. A more important issue in my eyes is let's look at the churche's condition right now with all the sexual abuse happening and why is it happening and what can be done to stop it. However nothing will be done about it by this pope as he was and is the one who has transferred the sicko priest to other places!! I for one will attend the Liberal Anglican church.

Catalina
October 25, 2009 12:47 AM

As a Catholic (Liberal) I find it extremely funny that this is happening. The church is loosing many people so what better way to gain - let's invite the conservative Anglicans. A more important issue in my eyes is let's look at the churche's condition right now with all the sexual abuse happening and why is it happening and what can be done to stop it. However nothing will be done about it by this pope as he was and is the one who has transferred the sicko priest to other places!! I for one will attend the Liberal Anglican church.

Joyful papist
October 25, 2009 1:46 AM

Catalina, Damian Thompson at the Telegraph gave a detailed response to these false claims about the Pope. You can read it at: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100011864/the-guardian-has-blundered-in-throwing-wild-accusations-at-pope-benedict/

Not to be rude, but if you think the behaviour of a few evil people, and a few more misguided idiots trying to cover it up, is a good enough reason to walk away not only from all the good people but also from the Real Presence of our Lord in the Eucharist, then you should do it.

Be true to yourself, I say.

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Diana Butler Bass and Paul Raushenbush both stand firmly within the Mainline Protestant tradition and, along with guest bloggers of all religious backgrounds are dedicated to the revival of religious progressivism and its influence in American politics.

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Diana Butler Bass is a commentator and scholar in American religion. She is the author of seven books including A People's History of Christianity: The Other Side of the Story (HarperOne, 2009).
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