Not mine since I’m still preparing for my doctrine of God final:
In the end, the document seems to be saying something like this: “We’re tired of being lumped in with the fundamentalists, who are always angry and rattling on about America being a ‘Christian nation’ and that kind of junk. We’re tired of being treated as the lapdogs of the Republican party. We’re followed the Republicans all these years because of one issue — abortion — and while we don’t want to abandon our pro-life stance, we think that we’ve ignored a lot of other Christian values and convictions in order to get leverage on this one matter, and now we’re thinking that that wasn’t such a good idea. And by the way, some of us have been Democrats all along. But we’re not telling you how to vote, so don’t jump to any conclusions. We just want to be seen as polite and reasonable participants in the American public sphere, unlike the red-faced old dudes you always see on TV presented as ‘the evangelical voice.’ We’re sick and tired of all that.”
I share many of the feelings that prompted this document, I admit, but I think this so-called Manifesto raises more questions than it answers, and creates more confusions than it resolves. The authors call themselves “representative evangelicals,” but are they? Or do they represent a highly educated, culturally elite subset of evangelicals? If they want to claim the name “evangelical” and deny it to fundamentalists, then what happens if the people they call fundamentalists want to call themselves evangelicals? Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University (an organ of the Religious Right if there ever was one) calls itself the world’s largest evangelical university — should it stop using that adjective? (“Evangelical,” I mean, not “largest.”)
I think from the little I’ve been reading about the document, it’s written to someone like me who is tired of Christians trying to reshape the Republican party in their image and the Republican party letting them because it helps them obtain power. To some that means abandoning it altogether and joining the Democrats or admitting that you’re already a Democrat. For me that’s a bridge too far to cross because I really am a Republican. I have no intention of voting for people who will fund abortions, raise my taxes, pull out of Iraq in defeat and spend at a greater clip than even the Republicans could imagine. Not to mention how bloated the federal government would be when they were done. No, I can’t see jumping from the pan into the fire.
posted May 10, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Hmmm . . . let’s see: Democrats left office after eight years with a 5 trillion surplus . . . Republicans leave office after eight years with a 9.5 trillion DEFICIT. (Who’s the party of financial responsibility, again?) Size of government vastly bigger after eight years of Republicans. War that should never have been fought and has proved to be a huge strategic error costing thousands of lives, more thousands of injuries, and billions of dollars, much of it going into the hands of corrupt contractors, pals of Cheney et. al. like KBR who are now responsible for electrocuting soldiers due to crappy wiring jobs, among other outrages. Taxes cut for the wealthiest during time of war, a decision McCain rightly called unconscionable before he sold his soul and decided it was OK if it won him campaign contributions.
That leaves, let’s see, abortion. Last I checked, nobody was forcing anyone to have one. If you don’t want any of your taxes to pay for poor women’s abortions, I suggest you take out whatever portion that amounts to and tell the IRS you refuse to pay. That’s what some courageous people have done to protest the billions of dollars used to kill people in our name. But I guess you’ll just vote Republican. Problem solved.
posted May 10, 2008 at 3:17 pm
“Democrats left office after eight years with a 5 trillion surplus”
Yes, Clinton was lucky to have been in office during the booming 90′s. Surplus had nothing to do with him.
“War that should never have been fought ”
Tell that to the families of Saddam’s hundreds of thousands of victims.
“Taxes cut for the wealthiest”
i.e people who actually go out and EARN a living. Taxes are on WAGES, genius, not wealth.
posted May 10, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Anyone who thinks we went to war for the noble aim of overthrowing Saddam Hussein is either hopelessly deluded or naive. Hussein was our ally not so long ago; he only morphed into the worst man on earth when Cheney et. al. decided it was time to seize control of Iraqi oil.
And don’t tell me the entire system isn’t rigged to protect the wealth of the richest 1-2 percent, many of whom have never worked a day in their lives.
Clinton’s economio policies created millions of new jobs and great prosperity, genius. I guess Bush just had really really bad luck? No, wait, it was US who had the bad luck. Because people like you voted for him twice.
posted May 10, 2008 at 5:26 pm
“That leaves, let’s see, abortion. Last I checked, nobody was forcing anyone to have one. If you don’t want any of your taxes to pay for poor women’s abortions, I suggest you take out whatever portion that amounts to and tell the IRS you refuse to pay.”
I’m sorry but that’s just ridiculous. How about I just vote for the Republican and then I won’t have to “protest” and I won’t be arrested either.
“Democrats left office after eight years with a 5 trillion surplus . . Republicans leave office after eight years with a 9.5 trillion DEFICIT.”
This really demonstrates your fundamental lack of knowledge as to what has happened in government over the last two presidencies. Since 1994 Clinton was blessed with a Republican Congress who kept spending down. And as ZZ mentioned a very good economy. Bush was cursed with 9-11 which tanked the economy. He also added to his own problems by spending way too much money and allowing Congress to spend too much money. And then he was doubly cursed with Democrats who have spent like there was no tomorrow. If they are the party of the deficit hawks that you people stupidly believe, then why are they spending so much money? Hmmm?
posted May 10, 2008 at 5:27 pm
“Clinton’s economic policies created millions of new jobs and great prosperity,”
Oh, come on, name ONE. That’s crazy.
“don’t tell me the entire system isn’t rigged to protect the wealth of the richest 1-2 percent, many of whom have never worked a day in their lives”
Sheesh, like absurd conspiracy theories much? Sure, there is a TINY fraction of the population that lives off investments rather than wages, and yes, their tax rate is low, but SO WHAT? I HAVE INVESTMENTS TOO, and so should YOU. The 80% of the population that hold securities benefits directly from low capital gains taxes. You’re speaking out of pure jealousy and nothing more.
“Hussein was our ally not so long ago”. Ummm, it’s called realpolitik, and every country on earth does it. Everybody on the PLANET, including Saddam’s OWN GENERALS, thought he had WMD. Well, now he’ll never get the chance to have them because he’s in a pine box. So the lesson is, tell everybody you have WMD, get hanged. Good lesson to have out there.
posted May 10, 2008 at 7:21 pm
And by the way, some of us have been Democrats all along.
Ha, good one!
“We’re [evangelicals] tired of being lumped in with the fundamentalists,”
They’ve spent more time trying to break from fundamentalism (60+ yrs) than they ever shared with fundamentalism (20 yrs?).
Sounds like the best you’re gonna get is another split. Sorry to be so negative, but that’s how I read it.
posted May 10, 2008 at 8:57 pm
These comments prove we will never rise above our differences and work together for the real good of the nation. I personally could care less about abortion. Even if Roe is overturned, it will always be legal in most states, including mine. I would gladly see Roe overturned, if it really would make a difference in the political unity of the country. It would not. Christianity functions best when Christians feel they are wronged and persecuted. You guys would just find something else to snivel about, while our great nation turns to rot.
posted May 10, 2008 at 9:24 pm
It’s so sad when someone is completely and utterly wrong and yet “knows” that they’re right. One is reminded of how St. Paul must have perceived his actions before his conversion experience. I fear Michele is going to need a personal visit from Christ herself before the message in that Bible she’s been reading all these years finally bores its way through her skull.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
It’s really quite simple.
posted May 10, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Gee, Ben, so Jesus was all about killing babies. How do you get that? Oh, I’m sorry, being against baby killing is not “nice”. Because being “nice” means not offending anybody, and since the murdering mothers are able to pout, and the babies are not, being on the side of the babies is not “nice”.
Shallow, juvenile, childish reasoning. I hope you never get old and have to depend on somebody else for your life. I think at that point you will find the murder of helpless ones less convenient.
posted May 11, 2008 at 12:55 am
I never said anything about abortion. I was mostly referring to economic and foreign policies that benefit only big business and the wealthy to the detriment of everyone else. Which is a huge part of the republican platform. They sure lure you suckers in with that abortion thing don’t they? “Pro life till they’re born” should be your motto.
posted May 11, 2008 at 12:29 pm
“benefit only big business”
Oh, like the companies that grow and deliver your food and made you car and clothing and who EMPLOY you. Way to pick your enemies, bub.
posted May 12, 2008 at 12:16 pm
“I really am a Republican.”
No kidding! Whodathunkit?
“I have no intention of voting for people who will fund abortions”
As if Rethuglicans have stopped abortions. You would prefere the good ole back alley (TM) method?
“raise my taxes”
Go ahead and “read [his] lips”, Michele.
“pull out of Iraq in defeat”
Seems you would prefer 100 years of staying in Iraq in defeat.
“and spend at a greater clip than even the Republicans could imagine”
I doubt ANY Democrat could spend as much as fast as the U.S. has wasted in Iraq: “[Bush] also added to his own problems by spending way too much money and allowing Congress to spend too much money.” YOUR words, Michele; YOUR words.
ZZ,
“I HAVE INVESTMENTS TOO, and so should YOU.”
That’s kinda hard for the person who has to choose between paying the rent and/or feeding the kids and/or paying for needed health care since they are lucky enough to work for a company that doesn’t provide it. Get a clue.