Pro-life protesters nearly run over by pro-abortion driver

"The left hate it when you express an opinion that they don't agree with and want to shut you up. Don't agree?"

Nope, not in the slightest; this is one incident in which an individual made a wrong choice. Besides, I've never heard of a "pro-abortion" individual; what is that? Is that a person who advocates abortion for every pregnancy? Never heard of that movement before. How do you know that was his motivation for aiming the car at the protesters? I am a member of the 'left' and I believe you have the constitutional right to say whatever you believe as long as you are not physically preventing anyone from receiving the legal health care inside.

Furthermore, kindly refer to people who support choice as pro-choice. The pro-choice movement is about abortion reduction, not through signs or protests but through the MUCH more effective way of advocating for adequate sex education, availability of birth control, and supporting candidates and legislation that would help improve socioeconomic status, fight for equal pay for women, and make college affordable and health care a 'right' not a 'privilege' for every American. I doubt you would like your movement to be called "pro-poverty", pro-women's oppression" etc.

Lauren

Considering the behavior of the sort of people who do the protesting, my sympathies are with the driver.

Of course I remember one hilarious incident back in the 90s when the pro-lifers were actively campaigning for Bill Clinton even though they did not know it, when one protester handcuffed himsef to the muffler pipe of a car. And then the person came out and started the car.

Then she put the car into gear.

The protester screamed like a stuck pig!

Everyone laughed at the protester and cheered the person to start driving.

A group of onlookers surrounded the protesters and started chanting, "Kill! Kill! Kill!"

The protester under the car managed to release himself and ran for his life, followed by the other protesters who left their signs as trophies for the mob.

We don't have fun like that any more.

Lauren and Sherry, someone who is pro-abortion favors legal abortion. If you're so concerned by the phrase, there must be something about abortion you don't find good. What is it? And if abortion isn't a good thing and you don't want to say you support it, why keep it legal? That seems inconsistent.

Someone who is pro-abortion is also someone like Barack Obama. He supports keeping abortion legal for any reason throughout pregnancy. He supports forcing taxpayers to fund abortion, he opposes any limits on abortion like informed consent or parental notification or a ban on partial-birth abortions. His record is very clearly PRO-abortion as he's never voted for any abortion limit either on the state or federal level.

"The party's over...it's time to call it a day..."

egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/my-own-private-focus-group/?8ty&emc=ty

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Down the road, Focus on the Family is still in a bit a of dither over what to do about John McCain. James Dobson, the founder of what is essentially a political action committee for evangelicals, had said earlier this year he would never vote for McCain. Never. Not under any circumstances.

Now he’s changed his mind. Sort of.

“While I said I will not endorse either candidate this year, I can say I’m now supporting John McCain,” he said in his October newsletter. However, “the senator continues to embrace issues that concern me.”

Dobson’s Web site contains outdated-looking scare alerts with headlines like “American Airlines extends special benefits to homosexuals.”

Dobson is yesterday. Boyd is tomorrow, saying that the environment, the poor, and helping those in his church who’ve lost a job or a house are things that matter to his congregation.

Abortion? Homosexuals? Bill Ayers?

“To be focused on those things at a time when people are hurting would really be to the detriment of families,” said Boyd.
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The Pastor Boyd referred to in the article is the pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, the church formerly pastored by Ted Haggard (you remember, the adulterous homophobe who was caught going to a prostitute).

My how times change. It's going to be a long eight years for you, Michele. I'd suggest you start therapy now.

Steven,
Thank you for your comments.
I can not speak for Lauren. I personally do not like abortion and I am grateful that I have never had to consider such a thing. If you pay attention you will find most people who are pro-choice are not pro-abortion. That is why there is a movement to reduce abortions through sex education and the like.

Calling someone "pro-abortion" is charged with as I said "morally superior" overtones period.

I can not begin to get inside the head and heart of a woman who believes this is her only option. If she believes it is her only option she will have an abortion whether it is legal or not. The God I worship does not call me to be judge and jury to people who are in pain, confused and hurting.

Steven,
I am pro-choice, I favor choices in women's reproductive care; be that continuing her pregnancy OR opting for a legal abortion. My problem with being referred to as someone who is "pro-abortion" is that it does not reflect choices; it reflects ONE choice, one option. I believe more than one option should be open to women in regards to their reproductive health.

Abortion is a complex issue because it affects complex human beings. Regaling it to the terms "good" or "bad" is, in my opinion, oversimplifying the issue. For example, I may think that abortion is 'good' in the instance of an eptoptic pregnancy. It may be 'good' because : (1) save the woman's life (2)save her fertility if she hopes to get pregnant again (3)if she is a mother; save her children heartache at losing their mother.

Or, for example, I may think that an abortion is 'bad' if a woman decides to have an abortion because she doesn't have the money to afford a child. I may think it is 'bad' that our government doesn't offer universal health care or (unlike many other countries) we don't have government subsidized maternity leave. I might think that it's 'bad' that women still systematically make less money then men. All of these may play a crucial role in a woman's choice.

But, fortunately, I don't make these decisions; unless I am the one pregnant I incur zero physical risk from a woman's pregnancy and therefore I offer zero input into a woman's decision about her pregnancy. Not my pregnancy, not my business.

Lastly, as Sherry put beautifully,

"I can not begin to get inside the head and heart of a woman who believes this is her only option. If she believes it is her only option she will have an abortion whether it is legal or not. The God I worship does not call me to be judge and jury to people who are in pain, confused and hurting"

Lauren

the guy was clearly out of his mind to do something like this, but the pro-lifers are no angels either. Didn't some of THEM go on a FIREBOMBING campaign against family planning clinics?

MzEllen,

"pro-choice"...such a nice, sanitized description for bloody, murderous business. No."

"You support the right of a woman to kill her child (you call it fetus). You are pro-abortion."

I am sorry if term accuracy offends you; I was merely trying to alleviate blatant misunderstanding. I do understand you are trying to bait me into an pointless argument in which nothing is gained. I will, however, respond to you courteously and respectfully, a consideration you have denied me. Watch and learn.

I do not support infanticide. I do not support abortion above other options in reproductive care. I support structural, systematic interventions that improve standards of living and subsequently reduce abortions to only those cases you yourself deemed 'necessary'.

Unless you address my posts again (in which I ask you to refer to me as pro-choice or I will not respond), you may refer to me as a pink elephant or anything else if you wish. Your choice in terminology will not make me any less pro-choice any more then calling a rabbit a squirrel makes it so.

Lauren

MzEllen,

The word 'choice' is bloody.

Its a hope built on the bloody hangers desperate women wrenched in their vagina in the 1960s and earlier to try abort for a multitude of reasons and often died.

Its built on the bloody knifes careless butchers used on desperate women, often leaving them dead or sterile; taking advantage of the fact that they had no where to turn.

Just as the Prohibition of the 1920s failed to stop the consumption of alcohol, so will overturning Roe v Wade fail to stop abortions.

Lauren

Mz Ellen,

You seem so angry, almost hateful. I understand that abortion is a very difficult subject. It is charged with emotion. It causes divisions in families and among friends but until we can dialog in a sane adult manner nothing will be solved. Each person must answer to his or her God about the choice they make.

If we are people of faith here (and I know that is a huge assumption) we should be seeking to understand and not just to be understood. Some of us may be brothers and sisters in faith so how can we be enemies.

Harsh retorts and lashing out using graphic language is not helpful. And Lauren is right, The word 'choice' is bloody.

We live in a difficult and fallen world, legislating morality has never stopped the immoral from happening.

May God have mercy on us all.

MzEllen plays the word game, but I suspect she is like most pro-lifers. They are pro-life until it starts to cost them some money.

For example, they are all for overturning Roe. But when it comes to spending some tax money to improve pre-natal and post-natal care for women and children in poverty (something that has been shown to reduce abortions in this country, unlike the Republican Party), she snaps her purse shut and screams, "CUT MY TAXES."

This is why the GOP has never passed the Human Life Amendment, the holy grail of the GOP platform since 1980. They need abortion to motivate pro-lifers like MzEllen to support them.

The GOP...the party built on abortion.

MzEllen,

Thank you for your reply.
Peace be with you.

bloody... guess you forgot that even birth is bloody. stop trying to embolden your case against abortion with your hyped up gore, ellen.

MzEllen,

What ideas do you have to you end elective abortions? You seem not to care for mine.

Lauren

I do not believe a fetus prior to the second trimester is a living human person.

Therefore, I have no problem saying that if an abortion occurs prior to the second trimester, it is completely acceptable. In that case, I am pro-abortion.

I do not believe a fetus prior to the second trimester is a living human person.

Therefore, I have no problem saying that if an abortion occurs prior to the second trimester, it is completely acceptable. In that case, I am pro-abortion.

Thank you for your honesty in your self-description.

Truth be told, I do believe that all abortion is wrong, but the hardness of heart that it would take to elect the abortion in the sixth or seventh month of a pregnancy astounds me.

What it would take to be so bent on killing a child that the child would be allowed to die after being "born alive? What is that called?

I also found it surprising that a candidate would oppose federal funding for crisis pregnancy centers.

I do not believe a fetus prior to the second trimester is a living human person.

Merely for the sake of discussion, is there a physical change that happens at a specific time that creates an "not alive/alive?" border? I spoke at length with one person who believed that border happened when brain waves could be detected.

Merely for the sake of discussion, is there a physical change that happens at a specific time that creates an "not alive/alive?" border? I spoke at length with one person who believed that border happened when brain waves could be detected.

I believe when the organs are fully formed and begin to grow (not develop), then the possibility for viability occurs. At that point, abortion would change from a medical procedure to the termination of a human life. That occurs towards the end of the second trimester, so the 13th week is a safe cutoff. There have been premies born in the fifth month, I think, that have survived.

In my opinon, punishing women for having sex is not the best way to go about ending abortion.

"Personal responsibility is indeed a thing of the past."

And if a woman is raped? Is it her responsibility to pay the cost for his actions? And your one-night stand example, maybe, for that woman, having an abortion is taking responsibility. You seem to be laboring under the misconception that abortion is equal to getting your nails done. It is a difficult choice and please don't insult these women whose circumstances you aren't privy too. Why do you believe another woman's pregnancy is your business? Why do you believe your judgment is superior to another woman's?

How do you make birth control attractive? Or do you mean make it more accessible?
Lauren

"I meant attractive. Simple. If using birth control was more attractive than NOT using it, more people would use it."

Are you saying we need to make birth control....cool? I'm 21 years old and I don't think many in my cohort think that going without contraception, is the cool thing to do. Remember, I was born in 1987, I don't know a world without AIDS.

Lauren

Michele, there is a comment being held for moderation. Could you please make sure it gets posted? Thanks.

ellen, you defined yourself as pro-abortion in an earlier thread. do you stand by that definition?

No. YOU chose to label me as something that I don't agree with. That's your deal, not mine.

In the case of a medical emergency that endangers the mother's life, that's not a decision, that's a necessity.

Anonymouse, you amaze me...then again...not.

I am intellectually honest, perhaps you are upset because I do not pander to your inaccurate characterization of me?

That's wonderful that your friend found solace after her ordeal in choosing to continue her pregnancy. I support her choice wholeheartedly. But it is fallacious to assume that your friend represents the feelings of EVERY woman who suffers a rape and would find the same relief in carrying the fetus to term. The same with your friend with the one-night stand.

Your personal experiences do not equal an objective world view, they do not pertain to everyone. You are not gatekeeper of morality. Leave that to God, He is better suited for it.

Women own their bodies and therefore have the only say in what they do with it. The fetus is physically dependent on the woman solely for 9 months, months in which she assumes ALL physical risk. Therefore she assumes all choice in the matter.

Just as you are not forced legally to give blood or your organs to a dying/incapacitated individual, neither should a woman be legally forced to have another individual use her organs for months.

How many children have you adopted, MzEllen?

Lauren