Like I need an atheist to tell me to be good. They're just as preachy as the Christians :-) Though, I have to say in this debate with Bill Donahue, the atheist comes off as much more reasonable (and all the atheists in the house go, "Well, yeah").
(via)
Here's what the arguing is about:
Ads proclaiming, "Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness' sake," will appear on Washington, D.C., buses starting next week and running through December. The American Humanist Association unveiled the provocative $40,000 holiday ad campaign Tuesday.Yes, it's much more rational to believe all this complexity was created from nothing, that one day the entire plant burst forth into existence and not only the planet but other planets as well and stars and they all just happened to follow a pattern of rotating around the sun which also just appeared one day.[...]
"We are trying to reach our audience, and sometimes in order to reach an audience, everybody has to hear you," said Fred Edwords, spokesman for the humanist group. "Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion."
To that end, the ads and posters will include a link to a Web site that will seek to connect and organize like-minded thinkers in the D.C. area, Edwords said.
Edwords said the purpose isn't to argue that God doesn't exist or change minds about a deity, although "we are trying to plant a seed of rational thought and critical thinking and questioning in people's minds."
And of course I needed to see that ad to begin the "critical thinking" process and it was so brilliant that it planted a "seed of rational thought" that I'm sure I'll give up twenty years of thought and study to "be good for goodness sake." Sorry but after all the years of studying God's character and revelation I'm going to need something more than an invitation to be good, as if Christianity is summed up and refuted by ethics alone. If there is no God, I'm partying like it's 1999! The heck with being good!
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Apparently, Stan, though people DO disagree on which ethics are correct, even when within the same religious tradition (you aren't claiming that all theists... all Christians.. heck, all Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod attenders at Emmanuel Lutheran in Nashville, agree on every point of ethics, morality, or even orthopraxy, are you?) there are points of dissent, nonetheless, we somehow manage to muddle through without continually defaulting to 'But GOD says THIS'. And all without accepting that, just because we don't all agree, that 'kill anyone that gets in my way' is an acceptable ethical position.
Not even mentioning when Divine orders sure seemed to coincide with that particular position.... (Check out most of Joshua for examples.)
I find Donahue's reaction to be hilarious. He reminds me of the Muslims who pop a
gasket over a misnamed teddy bear.
Michele, you final paragraph is basically a restatement of the teleological argument. The Wikipedia entry above has a good section on counter arguments and why a rational person could find it unconvincing.
Stan
You said: Exactly the problem. You devise your own and I'll devise mine. There is nothing in any of them that would compel another to agree. It isn't "morals and ethics" at that point; it's pragmatism. And if Bob's version includes "kill anyone who gets in my way," on what grounds could anyone protest?
Boris says: If Bob's morals lead him to break the law then he will have to suffer the consequences. The problem really is with Christians and Muslims who think that the law given in their holy book supersede any man-made laws. This is why people like you Stan are very very dangerous.
You said: Oddly, it appears that using a Christian set of morals and ethics is consider a bad thing ...
Boris says: The hijacking of morality and ethics by religion just makes me sick. There is nothing original in the Bible. All the morals and ethics in the Bible were take from much older civilizations that existed long before there were any Christians or Jews. The Christian claim that their religion is the basis for all morality is nothing but a big fat lie. Christianity stole everything it has including the myth of a dying and resurrecting savior king.
Someone else's post on this topic - I don't often agree with her, Julie D., but she's right when she says, "Give me a real atheist any time." Amen.
All the morals and ethics in the Bible were take from much older civilizations that existed long before
And ... so what? I just don't share your "us & them" view of humanity.
"Being good for Goodness' sake" - anything less simply won't wash.
"...one day the entire plant burst forth into existence and not only the planet but other planets as well and stars and they all just happened to follow a pattern of rotating around the sun which also just appeared one day."
Funny, I was under the impression that the bible said just that. Except of course that god did it. Atheists are very unlikely to tell you that this all happened in a day. It was a gradual process over a ridiculously long amount of time that humans can't even begin to fathom.
I find it sad that you only behave as a good person because of your belief in a god and a fear of punishment.
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