FOCA would be "the equivalent of war"

Whatever you may think of abortion, and I'm opposed to it, it is utter hypocrisy for the Catholic Church to be pontificating about cooperating with evil. When have they not?

in the strongest language condemned Obama's extreme policies on abortion.

Maybe Obama will listen.

Hmmm...so a group of pedophiles is threatening to take action if FOCA is passed. Are they afraid that abortion might deprive them of future altar boys and girls to play with?

You act like this is all about the Catholic church.

I hear the Presbyterians run some good hospitals ...

"The Catholic Church is the only organization on record to dispense money from a slush fund set up solely for the paying off of abused children's families. So always remember you can not judge a man by his collar."

ds0490 and all: What exactly are you defending? The right to bash Catholics or the right to kill babies?

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Just pointing out how odd it seems to hear pedophiles and their enablers telling others about what morality should be.

Or do you feel that pedophiles are qualified to speak on moral issues?

"Will the Catholics in the pew join the fight? A majority of them voted for Obama. Maybe they'll care when the church closes hospitals instead of being forced to perform abortions."

It's simple -- The Church has no business making medical decisions for patients, and should NOT run hospitals or other care centers if they cannot provide appropriate care for the patients.

The Church can close its hospitals and Congress can pass a law allowing victims of clerical abuse to sue in Federal Court with no statute of limitations, as well as making concealing that abuse a federal offense.

They'll keep those hospitals open.

ds0490, you're making an ad hominem argument. We should evaluate the argument irrespective of who it comes from and then draw conclusions.

In reality if the Church closed their hospitals that would create a market opportunity for the other health care providers. They would expand and fill in any losses in coverage and the patients would be fine. The Catholic Church would end up as beautiful losers.

Charles, all they need to do is enforce laws that are already on the books. Knowingly covering up for child molesters is a serious crime. After the indictment and trial of John Geoghan, there was outrage in Boston, particularly among Catholics. There was speculation that part of the reason Cardinal Law ended up in Rome was to get him out of the reach of the secular authorities in the Boston area. Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly's report was pretty damning and you could see where it was leading.

As long as Catholics are content being led by pedophiles and their enablers, why should the rest of us listen when they start talking about morality. Let them clean out their own cesspools first, then maybe the rest of us will take their calls for moral action seriously.

ds0490____I am not an enabler. I do not approve of the actions of pedophiles, nor have I every contributed to their actions. Not all pedophiles exist in the Catholic church. The Catholic church is still the church that Christ founded. Christ is not a liar. A long as the Catholic Church has the truth in its fullness it will always be persecuted by people like you and those who hate the Catholic church. Yes, there are sinners in the Catholic church just like there are in every other church. This is not what Christ intended when he founded the church. Don't you think that by now we would have seen the end of it. It has existed for 2000 years and it will always exist. The evildoers will be purged out of the Catholic church but the gates of hell will never prevail against it. You can insult priests and bishops all you want. I know that not all of them are guilty of being pedophiles. Anyway, the focus of this post was to discuss FOCA. I can't see why anyone would not oppose killing innocent babies. Do you oppose FOCA or is your aim just to spew hate against the Catholic church. And by the way, WMDKitty, do you think killing babies is appropriate healthcare?

The RCC has no business trying to tell the next president of the United States what to do...in fact, they really have no business telling women (non-Catholic) what to do either. If a Catholic woman wants to follow orders/their faith, then that is their business. However, all women have the right to determine what happens to their own bodies. This country has no "state" religion, thus no church has any business interfereing in the running of it. There is a reason for "the separation of church and state". ____The RCC needs to continue to try and clean up it's act regarding the child molestation mess. It also needs to stop seeing women as vessels for making more Catholics and allow artificial birth control...many already use it as all priests don't agree. Also starting to discuss allowing priests to marry, and ordaining women priests should keep the Big Dogs busy...so they can stay out of government business. ____Many Catholics voted for Obama...they realized that this wasn't a single issue vote....smart folks.____BTW, no woman is FORCED to have an abortion, or will a doctor be forced to perform one. So what is the RCC worried about?

"A long as the Catholic Church has the truth in its fullness it will always be persecuted by people like you and those who hate the Catholic church."

As long as there are moonbats like you who believe this, there will be enablers who cover for pedophiles in the Catholic Church. Clean up your house of worship before you come out and tell the rest of us how to live.

Does your priest still abuse children, V?

"What is it about these women that can't say no..."

Doesn't the Bible say that you are not to withhold yourself from your partner save by mutual consent, and then only for a short while lest the Devil tempt you with lust?

"...or take precautions,..."

Surely you know the Catholic church's position on birth control!

"...why so weak."

It's simple. When you believe that if you disobey the priest you go to hell, you'll do pretty much whatever he asks you to do. Even if it means being quiet about a little "incident" with an altar boy.

That sounds like a statement of despair.

One hopes only residual despair. I've decided to throw my lot in with them, with the people they've hurt and the people they still attempt to serve. I can't say how it's all gonna turn out.

has no business trying to tell the next president [or] women (non-Catholic) what to do either.

I reading the book of Ruth right now. I don't know whether you've read it. It's very short. But what strikes me is Ruth's willingness to follow Naomi wherever, even though Ruth is a foreigner and not an Israelite. The same opportunity is offered here.

You have obviously been hurt by someone in the Catholic church

Ain't necessarily so, V.

Then please explain to me what could be the cause of such hate.

I'm trying to learn from my own mistake ... or weakness: I didn't resist a temptation above (11/22 @ 9:05AM) and I regret it. ds0490, I regret it.

So, V, my explanation would be that it's really hard to speculate about what motivates other people, especially online. I take that back; it's easy to speculate, but difficult to be correct.

If people really knew what we as Catholics fundamentally believe

They do know, trust me.

I appreciate your zeal, V, but, you see, I am lumped with them. I said that above.

"Then please explain to me what could be the cause of such hate."

Matthew 23

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Here's something on the original post of FOCA:

Still, Obama’s victory does change the equation: It actually makes it less likely that FOCA will receive genuine congressional consideration. If John McCain had won, FOCA would have been a much livelier issue because the Arizona senator was perceived as a threat to Roe.

“With Roe v. Wade [in place] there is no practical need for the legislation, there is no crisis,” a Senate aide intimately familiar with the bill told me last week. “And Roe v. Wade is going nowhere soon,” he said.

There are genuine abortion-related issues worthy of debate right now -- [...] FOCA, however, is not among them. In fact, it’s not even close.

How a bill doesn't become law - National Catholic Reporter, 11/28/08.

cf. Gibson's got it all.