Michele,
It is a shame that you can only see negative in anything related to Obama. It is also a shame you cannot move beyond your know everything attitude.
Yes, Obama has considerable work to accomplish. Cleaning up one of the worse crisis a president ever faced is a tough job.
While you repeat the same old worn ineffective Republican talking points, the job situation will continue to get worse.
I suggest reading about the credit default swaps (derivatives) crisis that occurred under Bush’s watch. Until people obtain a basic understanding of the $175 trillion credit default swap liability, they will not understand the complexity of the situation.
polls show that a very large percent of people understand that Obama did not cause the crisis and they have realistic expectations about what Obama can accomplish.
Maybe because the majority of Americans are not looking for something negative to say about Obama.

Michele, keep up the good work.
There is a lot of information out there. While it would benefit our government to be cautious, it seems as though the liberals would prefer rushing our children and grandchildren into debt.

Neither Obama or anybody in government can clean any of this up. Whether you view it through the lens of the default swaps or anything else, the fact is Americans have been living WAY beyond their means for the last 20 years and this is the correction. We’ve buying been bigger houses, bigger cars, and bigger TVs than our wages justified, and we did it on credit. It was insanity and the party’s over. Maybe we’ll come out of this a more frugal, sober nation.

“one of the worse crisis a president ever faced is a tough job”
HA! This isn’t even as bad as the ’82 slump yet, let alone Carter’s 70′s stagflation. And it’s nowhere near, nor will be, anything like the depression. And what about WWII? WWI? The CIVIL WAR?
Putting Obama in the same league as the presidents who mastered these crises just shows historical ignorance.

ZZ, when you compare the confederate states leaving the Union, when you compare the “great depression”, when you compare the infancy of our nation…
there is a lot of – I wouldn’t call it “ignorance”, a lack of historical perspective, certainly.
I’m not planning on putting my head in a hole in the ground any time soon in order to avoid seeing negatives.

“While it would benefit our government to be cautious, it seems as though the liberals would prefer rushing our children and grandchildren into debt.”
Cautious…you mean like the Bush administration was?

“And though he’s saved 25 jobs, 651,000 jobs were lost in February. It appears that Obama has his work cut out for him keeping pace with the jobs lost under his watch. ”
Hmmm…does this mean that 9/11 really happened on Bush’s watch and was not Clinton’s fault?
Didn’t think so…

“HA! This isn’t even as bad as the ’82 slump yet, let alone Carter’s 70′s stagflation.”
That depends on how you do the calculations. The inflation is down, but most of that cut has to do with energy costs, not food. And with the revision in the way unemployment is calculated there is no accurate way to compare unemployment levels of ’82 or ’70 to now. But generally you are correct…so far. We’ll see how far this Bush recession goes before it hits bottom.

The magnitude of the current crisis has yet to be felt.
Your name: “the fact is Americans have been living WAY beyond their means for the last 20 years and this is the correction.”
I totally agree. All Americans also include the wealthiest taking too much risk with other people’s money. The so-called experts advised people that housing was a good investment – history said that was true. Alan Greenspan encouraged people to buy more house with adjustable rate loans.
The credit default swap (CDS) greed caused more damage than the subprime loans. If it had been only individuals defaulting on loans, the financial crisis would not be anywhere close to what we are experiencing.
The Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley investment banks that made big money on CDSs also were the major cause for gasoline going to over $4 a gallon. It has been proved that supply and demand was not the cause. The price of gas started going down in July when congress finally told the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to do their job. Speculators started pulling out of the market because they knew their actions would finally be observed.
When did the price of gas take a big plunge? Right after Paulson made the announcement about the economic crisis and banks were failing. Why? Because the trading speculators were coming from the big banks that were failing.
MzEllen said, “there is a lot of – I wouldn’t call it “ignorance”, a lack of historical perspective, certainly.”
I have never said that Obama or anyone else has all the answers. Obama has already said some of the things are going to fail. I believe there is no easy fix and as many economist have said it is not possible to know for sure what will work because the current situation is different than any previous situation – the reason using history has limited applicability
My definition of ignorance is someone that thinks they know what will or will not work, but they have absolutely no support for their “now it all” comments. They are not trained in finance or economics. They have not worked in the field. They are not open to possibilities that they do not know everything or that they could possibility learn something new. They are intent on saying someone else is wrong, but have no support for why the person is wrong.
If you want to go on history:
Data for the whole period from 1948 to 2007, during which Republicans occupied the White House for 34 years and Democrats for 26, show average annual growth of real gross national product of 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents versus 2.78 percent under Democrats.
http://tinyurl.com/67gclx

MarcM…
9/11 was in 2001. Like most large attacks, it was planned for years ahead of time.
This recession was years in the making also…reaching back to the Carter years.
Many conservatives condemned Bush for starting the pork-fest/bailouts.
The inflation is down, but most of that cut has to do with energy costs, not food.
Inflation was up during the Carter years, most of that had to do with energy costs. Most everything was up during the Carter years.
The cost of food depends on the cost of energy. When it costs more to transport a gallon of milk (from the farmer to the plant, from the plant to the warehouse, from the warehouse to the grocer) we see a per-gallon increase.
We have yet to see unemployment like during the Carter years. Wealth is created by the private sector and it remains to be seen whether raising taxes on businesses helps they create wealth or jobs.
We have yet to see interest rates like during the Carter years. We may see that yet, but interest rates are being held down artificially.
We’ll see how far this Bush recession goes before it hits bottom.
I have said here that there’s enough blame to go around. Democrats in Congress did their fair share also. Bush should have stuck to conservative business principles. I blame both.

Julie, I would love to interact with you, but choose not to until you choose to make a commitment to civil discourse without making accusations.

The impact is just starting:
Colorado business bankruptcy filings jumped almost 50 percent in 2008, according to data released Thursday by the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts. 965 businesses
Personal bankruptcy filings — which represent the bulk of all filings — increased 31 percent, to 1,074,225 from 822,590 in 2007, according to data released by the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts.
2008 Business bankruptcy filings filings jumped 54 percent, to 43,546 from 28,322 a year earlier.
Feb. 2009 consumer bankruptcies up 29%
American Bankruptcy Institute sees filings in 2009 surpassing last year’s level.
Just a few recent bankruptcy announcements:
— AnnTaylor said it expects to close 163 stores by fiscal 2010, 46 more than the 117 closings announced in January 2008. The chain shuttered 60 stores last year.
— Golden Gate Fields is expected to be put up for sale after the owner of the horse racing track filed for bankruptcy
— Solstice, Resort Property Club, Enters Bankruptcy
— Visteon shares at 2 cents; bankruptcy feared
More hotels are facing foreclosure, bankruptcy
— Ilikai – the first luxury high-rise hotel in Hawaii
— Renaissance Grand & Suites Hotel in St. Louis, and W Hotel and InterContinental Montelucia Resort, both in Scottsdale, Ariz. Owners of Ritz-Carlton Lake Las Vegas, Sheraton Downtown Orlando and The Tropicana in Las Vegas have filed for bankruptcy. MGM Mirage said this month that it “might not be able to stay in compliance” with a loan, which could lead to default.
— Oakwood Village in Orange County is part of the Bethany Group of southern California, which owns properties all over the country.
— Magna Entertainment Files For Ch. 11 Protection
— Struggling recreational vehicle manufacturer Monaco Coach Corp.
— Connecticut School of Broadcasting – Radio/TV school to file for bankruptcy
— Joe’s Sports files for bankruptcy protection
— Analyst predicts Harrah’s will land in bankruptcy court this year
— Blockbuster Said to Hire Firm for Advice on Possible Bankruptcy
— First Americans Insurance Service in its bankruptcy
— Certifichecks Files For Chapter 7 Bankruptcy
— Muvico Theaters
— Last employees leave Eclipse; Albany worker files lawsuit
— AC’s Resorts casino hopes to avoid bankruptcy
— TelePlus World Corp., a publicly traded telecommunications company
— SLS International files bankruptcy, plans to sell assets
— RES parent files for bankruptcy

Employment Plunges: Fastest Rate Drop On Record
The deeper the United States gets into the economic crisis, the further back the media’s “since dates” get for various economic and employment indicators. Most, though, have only dated to the ’70s and ’80s, while political rhetoric reaches back to call the downturn “the worst since the Great Depression.”
One indicator in the data released by the Department of Labor on Friday, though, zipped right on past the Me Decade. The drop in the employment rate is the sharpest since the number started being measured in 1948.
In the months since the downturn began, it’s fallen 3.1 points. During the worst downturn since the Great Depression, in the early ’80s, the employment rate fell only three points over two years.

News Flash that will not be seen on Michele’s blog:
Sarah Palin appoints former Planned Parenthood board member to Alaska Supreme Court
Anchorage Superior Court Judge Morgan Christen

CB doesn’t need the add’l cops, of course, ‘cuz it’s a safe town but imagine getting out of a very specialized school and not having a job? In a few months, maybe michele will tell us all what that’s like, actually.
Anyway, this small move, gesture really, is meaningful to those graduates. They don’t have to re-tool. These jobs are 100% taxpayer paid jobs either way – it’s simply a matter of whose pot of public funds is tapped.
Could they have collected unemployment benefits otherwise? I’m not sure, but, presumably those 651,000 can.

Julie, I’d love to respond to you (newest) Palin attack, but would need to have a commitment to civil discourse with no accusations first.
Moonshadow, my kids have both been out of work for over a year. They are not on unemployment.
Our governor’s latest…we need more tax money to fix our roads, so we’re going to “restructure” the way gasoline is taxed. But don’t call it a “tax increase” because even though we’re going to be paying more taxes, it’s not an increase – it’s a “restructuring”.
January’s unemployment rate is 11.6% and we’ve heard that February’s worse. Perfect time to raise gasoline taxes for the people who need a break most…those driving to the next job interview.

maybe you should start a small business and hire your kids. use that conservative economic savvy.

“Julie, I would love to interact with you, but choose not to until you choose to make a commitment to civil discourse without making accusations.”
i have to say, the discourse between the two of you has become much more civil since you have chosen to not “interact.” let’s just leave a good thing be, huh?

anonymous reincarnate,
Yes, I agree.

Yes, since Julie cannot commit to civil discourse, the best thing is to not interact.
Until her next attack…

Anonymous Reincarnate, do you think that civil discourse was ever on Julie’s agenda?

Rod has posted several blogs about the economy that have been leaning in the same direction I have been leaning. Today he included information from another blog that is good background information. This is serious stuff we are facing.
What does financial collapse mean? Friday March 6, 2009
http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2009/03/what-does-financial-collapse-m.html#comments

I’m inclined to give Obama more than six weeks to get his act together. But I did think it was just plain dumb to congratulate himself on the saving of 25 jobs (although I am sure 25 families are thrilled). I was thinking revitalizing the economy might be done for less than $80,000,000 a worker.

Oops.
Here I go messing up the math of big numbers like I complain about in others.
Make that 2 trillion divided by 25 or $80,000,000,000 a worker, not just $80,000,000 a worker.

I was thinking revitalizing the economy might be done for less than $80,000,000 a worker.
I think you’re one of the few liberals around here that have any reservations, Robert. Not many people (here) have looked at very many lines with a view to how cost effective they are in creating jobs or stimulating the economy (or at least have expressed it here).
Anonymous Reincarnate thinks that given San Jose $50,000,000.00 for an airport people mover (240 jobs) is a good idea.
Julie seems to think that conservatives believe that we’re not in trouble. We are. We just don’t happen to think that all these consecutive huge spending sprees are the way out of it.
Can less money be spent more wisely? Does our country getting even deeper into debt create wealth in the private sector?
While we are in a difficult situation, nobody knows if all this spending will work! But most liberals here applaud this spending spree.
Some spending in needed…but this much and this many times? I don’t think so.
January’s unemployment for my state was 11.6%. They haven’t released February’s figure yet, I think it will top 12%. Granholm’s answer? Get more money from gasoline taxes!

MzEllen, you hit the nail on the head. Some spending is needed, but this much and this many times????
Since the beginning, I have been saying, DO NOT give the Stimulus packages to the Business….The top execs have already abused their companies monies, they are sure to abuse the stimulus money.
Give the money back to the people, the tax payers, the middle class and poor that are loosing their jobs, their homes and their self worth. They would use the money to pay their mortgages, to pay off their credit cards, and to buy new cars, to be able to afford to go grocery shopping and buy gas. Those 2 things have NOT gone down in price at all. And then when the money is being spent by the people, jobs will come back because of the demand of supply.
The $600.00 Bush gave was nice, but do something grand. Give us each $100,00.00 for the people that make less than $200,00.00 (or even $100,00.00) a year or less and we will restimulate the economy because we will use that money to get out of debt.
Think about it….it will work.

787 billion? Lets’ try this instead. issue a million dollar cash card to every american with a job. must be used on goods and services only. no cash refunds. broken up into maybe $3,000 per month max/min that you have to/can spend. You quit your job, you lose your card. get a job reinstate your card or if no card yet issued a new one. carried out it would give a worker a $36,000 raise for 20+ years. Confidence, security, JOBS!! Talk about money getting back into the economy quick! and all for a sliver of the cost of an Obama plan. A percentage of regular wages could be saved, spent, whatever. Even if every living soul in the USA got a card it would still more effective and afforadble then the billions being talked about now. Talk all you want, $13.00 a week in a paycheck from a tax cut is a joke. A couple of value meals at the end of the week is a waste of time. Bold? Your kidding. money in the hands of consumers that has to be spent will fire up the economy in short order. Of course this is a raw idea that needs tweaked but, we can let the shining stars in Washington take that on.

obama had better do something fast

do something obammma

Think about it….it will work.
That would be a stunning idea…I’d go a bit further and require that the money go first for catching up on “behind”. A late mortgage payment, car, etc. A lot of people are a “little” behind.

Truth be told, all of this is part of a bigger picture. As soon as the US became a global economy, our standard of living was bound to go down. Our wages were bound to go down. The playing field had to be leveled for all businesses to be competitive. As wealth increased in India and China, ours deteoriated. Corporate America has been sending American jobs oversears for years. My company just cut my pay by 20% and many companies are following suit. I wonder how many of them are using the economy as an excuse to fatten their bottom line. Out of all the industrialized nations, Americans work the hardest but Corporate American has no vested interest in the American worker anymore since they can now tap into a huge pool of foreign workers. Corporate American builds colleges in other countries and provides free education for those workers because they can then in turn hire the graduates for a lot less than an American worker. I say, that if a salary cut is forced on me, then let my rent be cut, and my bills be cut. Why is it the worker is making all the sacrifices? What sacrifices has Corporate America made for us?

Your Name
March 8, 2009 9:10 AM
“Truth be told, all of this is part of a bigger picture. As soon as the US became a global economy, our standard of living was bound to go down. Our wages were bound to go down. ”
From some of the thing I have been reading, the above statements may be true.
The statements leads to the idea that no one can fix the ecomomy in a way that will improve our standard of living
- it is a reason for anger from the have nots to the haves that have continued to increase the divide between the two groups
- it is a reason to support a president that is focused on improving live for 95 percent – not continuing increase the non-trickle done 5 percent.
By the way, I know that is possible that Beliefnet captures the Ip address when comments are made. Other sites do.

I know that wordpress does and I can get the location (city), IP address and referral address from most of the visitors to my site whether they comment or not. But I own my own site.

Okay,,, we’ve bailed out every greedy banker and AIG. We’ve WASTED TRILLIONS of dollars. Did anyone think of this? There are only about 306 Million people in the U.S. We could have given every man, woman and child in America ONE MILLION DOLLARS and we’d have saved a lot of time and debt. They want the peons to stimulate the economy, get rid of the housing mess, get back in stores and spend, spend spend. Why didn’t they just put the money in at the bottom and watch it percolate UP?????? No one in government has a two brain cells to rub together and their too busy trying to load bills with pork to get RE-ELECTED!

The Obama administration is continuing the failed policies of the Bush administration by giving tens of billions of dollars to AIG and then KEEPING THE AIG BENEFICIARIES A SECRET! What happened to Obama’s promise of transparency? It turns out many of those beneficiaries are foreign banks! Why should we be taking money from our children and grandchildren and giving it away to foreign banks? Are those foreign banks building roads and bridges in America?

“There are only about 306 Million people in the U.S. We could have given every man, woman and child in America ONE MILLION DOLLARS and we’d have saved a lot of time and debt.”
huh?
306,000,000 x $1,000,000 = $306,000,000,000,000
i’s a big number, so let me do this slowly in parts for you.
306,000 is 306 thousand
306,000,000 is 306 million
306,000,000,000 is 306 billion
306,000,000,000,000 is 306 trillion.
please rub two brain cells together and explain how dishing out $306 trillion dollars is saving debt.

“There are only about 306 Million people in the U.S. We could have given every man, woman and child in America ONE MILLION DOLLARS and we’d have saved a lot of time and debt.”
This exact comment is why we are in the fix we’re in. What money do you think the government is giving away? It’s own? NOPE. I know it hard for you to follow so let me say it slow:
THE MONEY THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING AWAY IS YOURS! IT’S TAX PAYER’S MONEY.
I wish people would listen to this. It’s so freaking simple.
IT’S YOUR MONEY THEY ARE GIVING AWAY.
Why don’t more peopel realize this?

Conservatives realize this…
Or rather, its our children’s money…and our grandchildren’s…and most likely great-grandchildren’s…

“I was thinking revitalizing the economy might be done for less than $80,000,000 a worker.”
“I think you’re one of the few liberals around here that have any reservations, Robert. Not many people (here) have looked at very many lines with a view to how cost effective they are in creating jobs or stimulating the economy (or at least have expressed it here).”
ellen, it’s funny that you should latch onto this! sure, if i expected that the stimulus plan alone was $2T (it’s actually less than half that) and that it would only create 25 jobs, i’d be more than miffed at the $80M/job price tag. as it is, many economists are predicting that it will actually create 3.5M or more jobs – that’s around $230K per job on average, without calculating the cost of materials and services which are also paid for by the stimulus.
as for the “people mover,” this isn’t something that obama chose. the people of san jose and the governor of CA will choose. i thought you’d like that… you know, more power to the states and all that. as stimuluswatch.org states, “These projects are not part of the stimulus bill. They are candidates for funding by federal grant programs once the bill passes.” maybe you don’t understand that, either.
“While we are in a difficult situation, nobody knows if all this spending will work! But most liberals here applaud this spending spree.”
i applaud obama and the democratic congress for doing what most economists say must be done. it’s fair to say that nobody knows if this will work, but we do know that tax cuts for the upper crust (making $250K or more) didn’t help.
if i had my way, i would withhold any money from states who’s majority of representatives voted against the bill and then we’d have a more comparative experiment. again, i encourage ellen, michele, and other opponents of the stimulus bill to call their republican mayors and republican governors and plead with them to not take stimulus funding. i encourage republicans to refuse to accept their tax cuts that are also tied to the stimulus package – donate it or send a check to the u.s. treasury to pay down the national debt.

liberals realize this, too…
we’re just less likely to whine about it when it’s being invested in this country’s crumbling infrastructure and to stave off unemployment and a deepening recession instead of pissing it away like the republicans did. at least our children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren will reap the rewards of this spending.
fyi – yelling doesn’t convince anyone that you’re an intelligent voter, either.

i encourage republicans to refuse to accept their tax cuts that are also tied to the stimulus package,
Republicans say “tax cuts, tax cuts…” no,,,we won’t take those tax cuts…
duh.

then you should support the stimulus plan. isn’t that how you like it? take it or leave it – no shades of grey!
40% of the cost of the stimulus bill is targeted tax cuts, mostly for the middle class and small businesses. the rest is meant for spending on infrastructure that will create jobs for people like you, your kids, and your boyfriend.
no, you prefer to keep whining about it because a democrat happens to be in office.