We are going to pay more for not only energy but for everything we buy. All of these cost will be passed to us, making China’s products even cheaper than they are now. This bill will mean further reduction in jobs and a doubling of your energy bill:
The hit to GDP is the real threat in this bill. The whole point of cap and trade is to hike the price of electricity and gas so that Americans will use less. These higher prices will show up not just in electricity bills or at the gas station but in every manufactured good, from food to cars. Consumers will cut back on spending, which in turn will cut back on production, which results in fewer jobs created or higher unemployment. Some companies will instead move their operations overseas, with the same result.[...]Even as Democrats have promised that this cap-and-trade legislation won’t pinch wallets, behind the scenes they’ve acknowledged the energy price tsunami that is coming. During the brief few days in which the bill was debated in the House Energy Committee, Republicans offered three amendments: one to suspend the program if gas hit $5 a gallon; one to suspend the program if electricity prices rose 10% over 2009; and one to suspend the program if unemployment rates hit 15%. Democrats defeated all of them.
Notice how the Republicans are trying to mitigate the damage and the Democrats aren’t letting them. It’s amazing to me that in the middle of a recession the Democrats would do something that means we lose even more jobs than we are now. Unemployment is at 10% and they’re voting for a bill that they would mean the loss of even more jobs.But why take the WSJ’s word for it, Obama himself says that under his plan “energy costs would sky rocket:”If you want to know exactly what you’ll be paying when, you can read the 1,000 page bill (with it’s 300 page amendment just added this morning, yeah they’ll have time to read that before they vote).And that doesn’t bother him. Does it bother you?Update: More Democrats admitting it’s a huge tax on energy that will mean your rates will go up. And here’s an analysis of the cost ($4300 per family per year).
posted June 26, 2009 at 11:10 am
Conservatives like markets. Cap-and-trade is a market-oriented solution to a serious pollution problem. You object and point to someone’s claims about the cost, but the Heritage analysis was not supported by any others and the CBO analysis is $175/year.
The critics assume that no one will change their behavior to stop this pollution, even though we have seen people make changes in the past based on market signals.
Since you don’t like cap-and-trade, what do you want to see done to cut this pollution?
posted June 26, 2009 at 11:30 am
We are one of the least-taxed countries in the industrialized world. While I realize fiscal conservatives would rather have people die in the streets for lack of medical care or people get sick of environmentally-caused cancers before they raised taxes a penny, that’s not a sustainable way of running the country.
The market has proven it is unwilling or unable to control pollution, provide proper health care, etc. This is a market failure, so now more regulation is necessary to do what private industry is unwilling or unable to do.
posted June 27, 2009 at 12:46 am
What pollution? C02 is NOT a pollution! The biggest con of all time has been that the more C02 produced the higher the temperatures. ALL studies from ice core samples to Al Gore’s infamous “Inconvient Truths” to a British court shows that higher temperatures produce higher C02 amounts. Let me repeat, CO2 FOLLOWS temperatures NOT the other way around. The warmer the temps the more the oceans release stored C02….Besides humans produce less than 5% of the planets CO2!
China and India have said they will not sign onto any type of C02 restrictions that will hurt their economy.
This bill has nothing to do with climate change, and everything to do with raising taxes especially for the lower and middle classes that use the vast majority of fossil fuels. Obama knows he can not raise the upper class taxes alone high enough (since there isnt enought of them) so this is his way of making the lower classes pay.
posted June 27, 2009 at 9:45 am
Michael, maybe you are least taxed in your income rate. But the US has the world’s second highest corporate income tax (which we all pay for). Here in California, I pay 36% federal and 10% state income tax. In 2010, that 36% will go to 39.6, but you know it will not stop there. We also pay around 8% in state sales tax here. Oh, let’s not forget FICA and medicare. Taxes on gas, tobacco, phone services, blah, blah, blah. It never ends.
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.
posted June 27, 2009 at 11:05 am
Toby, your claims are not consistent with the scientific evidence or the concensus of scientists involved in this.
Anti-Michael, if your taxes are that high, it tells us that you have been very blessed. It is too bad that you feel the need to complain from within your riches. I also note that, despite your acknowledged great income, you felt the need to exaggerate the tax rate you will be paying this year and forgot to mention that this is a marginal rate, not the average that you pay.
The corporate tax thing is less onerous than advertised by the Heritage Foundation and other corporate shills and our country was doing much better when that tax was higher. It is selective in the way it is calculated by those who think that there is a benefit in not paying to have a good government. Our total tax burden is far less than average among the developed nations. If you don’t like the cost of civilization, you are free to go somewhere else.
posted June 27, 2009 at 11:19 am
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.
Actually, you don’t know what you are talking about. But thanks for playing.
Americans, regardless of income, pay less in taxes than people in almost any industrialized nation. We also have the most poor people, the most people unable to access health care, the highest rates of abortion and unplanned pregnancies, and the weakest environmental protections.
posted June 27, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Going DOWN TO THE STANDARDS OF EUROPE AND THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES is not a priority of many!
Have you forgotten lately that people are dying to come to America. Perhaps, we should start an exchange program for those who have SOCIALISM ENVY. Trade your place here in America, with a resident from IRAN, or Kenya, or CUBA, or any other socialist country. They would die for the chance to come here and make something of themselves under the CAPITALIST system — because, you see, under SOCIALISM — they are not FREE TO BECOME TRULY ALL THEY CAN BE.
So, Michael, why not work on trading your place here in America with some one from a country that is not as blessed as ours — & check in with us in a few years and let us know how you are making out.
posted June 27, 2009 at 12:45 pm
The Bible says “… the heavens and the earth… are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(II Peter 3:7).”
Whether we pay high taxes or low taxes, God’s fiery judgment will come. Are we ready to meet our Maker?
posted June 27, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Let’s see, Jesus told us that the love of money is the root of all evil; greed is one of the seven deadly sins; and we have folks here who worship the philosophy of Gordon Gekko.
posted June 27, 2009 at 5:26 pm
People who scream in all caps and toss around the term “socialism” in the context of U.S. policy are people too irrational to argue with.
So I won’t.
posted September 21, 2010 at 12:38 pm
How are you so ill informed? Cap and trade has absolutely nothing to do with gasoline or cars. It’s targeting coal burning plants and other gross polluters. On top of that, it’s something that is slowly phased in — it’s not WHAM overnight these companies owe millions upon millions of dollars. They’ll be given ample time to forecast the expenses and adjust their corporate direction. Yes, most coal burning plants will be put out of business. But that is a GOOD thing for the environment!
There are too many readily available energy alternatives to stir up paranoia about some drastic energy hike as well. Coal burning plants will likely invest their assets into wind or solar power and continue to stay in the business. Those who do not evolve will simply die – that is how the world works folks.
I’ve been reading about this all morning and this is THE most biased, misinformed and hyperbolic crap job of “reporting” I’ve seen on the topic so far. And I’ve read stuff from RUSH LIMBAUGH for christ sake.