Not surprising that he'd use it. What other Bible story fits as perfectly as David does the situation that he's in? Though, he could have used the woman caught in adultery, it would have been the perfect time to remind his detectors of their own sin when he got to the, "Let those without sin cast the first stone" part.
I have been doing a lot of soul searching on that front. What I find interesting is the story of David, and the way in which he fell mightily, he fell in very very significant ways. But then picked up the pieces and built from there.I wonder if he's willing to accept David's punishment as well?[...]
I remain committed to rebuilding the trust that has been committed to me over the next 18 months, and it is my hope that I am able to follow the example set by David in the Bible - who after his fall from grace humbly refocused on the work at hand. By doing so, I will ultimately better serve in every area of my life, and I am committed to doing so.
BTW, I saw this yesterday and thought it said a lot about these "marriage boot camps" that an adulterer like Sanford could go through them with "flying colors." It didn't do him any good and didn't bring about repentance or a recommitment to his marriage. Maybe it would have been more profitable for him to contemplate what his adultery was saying about his faith:
ESV 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.And then there's this:
In an interview with The Associated Press this weekend at his Columbia office, just blocks from the State House, Culbertson said he believed his friend when he said that this was his only marital transgression. He thinks Sanford was simply caught off guard by "the power of darkness."Caught off guard by "power of darkness?" That's a euphemism for the devil made me do it. Sorry, but it's more helpful to put the blame where it should be on the flesh and not the devil.
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Per your suggestion to "look it up", I invite anyone to look at:
1 Samuel 18:1-4
1 Samuel 20, noting verse 41, and
2 Samuel 1: 17-27
Look at as many translations as you want.
Again, suppose for the sake of argument that David was describing a sexual relationship in his lament for Jonathan. Why would he have ordered his soldiers to memorize it (2 Samuel 1:18)?
It's just nonsense.
until one of them "exceeded" (look it up),
Look at as many translations as you want.
Here's a bunch.
David's grief surpassed Jonathan's.
Exactly right, Moonshadow, and thanks for the link.
Michele,
Interesting that you asked: "I wonder if he's willing to accept David's punishment as well?
Seems it wasn't David who was 'punished' but his innocent child instead: "13 David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord, [1] the child who is born to you shall die.”"
Such a perverse 'god', killing an innocent child instead of the actual sinner. Fie on't!
Dear Moonshadow and Jeff,
Thanx for the different translations. (Odd, ain't it, that there are so many different versions of what took place. Maybe one of you could point out the 'correct' one to us all. And, more interesting still, is that not a one of them is the ESV from which Michele quotes. Wonder why the next set of interpreters had to 'Revise' the "perfect Word o' God" (TM)?)
Now to the crux of it all...
First Jeff's claim that "It is obvious that passage does not speak of a sexual relationship." It is not "obvious" at all, what with the stripping naked, and the kissing etc. Sounds very sexual to me.
Re: 1 Samuel 18:1-4 - "seems "Jonathan ... loved him as his own soul". I have no problem with 2 men loving one another. Sort of proves my point, tho I doubt you'd agree.
Re: 1 Samuel 20, noting verse 41 - um, that was the very verse I cited. Do you have a point?
Re: 2 Samuel 1: 17-27 - that's where the "surpassing the love of women" quote comes from. Again, that's what I cited. What's your point?
Now, of the 13 translations you provided, eight of the say "until [or "till"] David exceeded [or "exerted himself"]" v. the other five's "but [or "and"] David wept the most" {or "cried the loudest"]. My contention is with the meaning behind the word "exceeded". Two people cannot "weep" 'until' one 'weeps the most'. (They can both be weeping 'and' one can weep more than the other.) The "until" means they wept "until" something other than 'weeping' happens.
Then there's the ridiculous (imo) Bible in Basic English Version that says "till David's grief was the greater" (or, Moonshadow's insistence that "David's grief surpassed Jonathan's"). Um, this passage isn't even about "grief" (what with all the stripping and kissing going on). But again, either one's grief is great or it isn't, but you don't kiss "until" one party's "grief" is "the greater".
Jeff, you asked, "Why would he have ordered his soldiers to memorize it (2 Samuel 1:18)?"
Um, perhaps David was so proud of his love for Jonathan, (a love that 'surpassed the love of women', remember) that he wanted his soldiers to understand that a love between two men can be greater than one's love for women.
All of this is simply to point out that, since there are so many differing versions, it is impossible to know which one is the (one and only) "correct" one. Which is why I insist that it is not "obvious" at all that this "does not speak of a sexual relationship". It is highly debatable, but not a one of us will ever know for certain until that Great Day.
(Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - I've been out of the country.)
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