Here are some videos from the Mackinac Center for Public Policyof Canadians talking about their failed health care system. These Canadians have a variety of serious and painful health issues but had to wait for treatment:So, instead of waiting a couple years for treatment, they come here:There are so few family physicians that they have to use a lottery system to add new patients. Patients are on the waiting list for years:The doctor’s fee is set by the government, they get paid for the amount of patients they see. Canadians only get 5 minutes with the doctor and they aren’t treated like the customer because the customer is the government (sort of like public schools without the school board). There’s a shortage of surgeons and state of the art equipment:When an insurance company tried to offer wait list insurance (after 45 days you could go to a private physician), the unions complained so loudly it was dropped:The politicians know the system is not sustainable but any reform is met by opposition from the unions. The unions have such power that when they go on strike, they can usually get what they want, taking even more money from patient care (which only receives 20-25% the rest goes to infrastructure and salaries):Canadians know that if we follow their failed system, then they will no longer have access to our superior medical facilities when they need them. Where will we go when we face wait lists?What’s amazing about the videos is how ingrained in their thinking that their health care is free but you know how ridiculous that is if you’ve ever gone to Canada and paid their exorbitant sales tax. They are footing the bill and are getting substandard care and there is nothing they can do about it. I don’t want that here.We will be paying more in insurance premiums and the middle class families will be paying more in taxes and fees:
Most astounding of all is what this Congress is willing to do to struggling middle-class families. The bill would impose nearly $400 billion in new taxes and fees. Nearly 90% of that burden will be shouldered by those making $200,000 or less.It might not appear that way at first, because the dollars are collected via a 40% tax on sales by insurers of “Cadillac” policies, fees on health insurers, drug companies and device manufacturers, and an assortment of odds and ends.But the economics are clear. These costs will be passed on to consumers by either directly raising insurance premiums, or by fueling higher health-care costs that inevitably lead to higher premiums. Consumers will pay the excise tax on high-cost plans. The Joint Committee on Taxation indicates that 87% of the burden would fall on Americans making less than $200,000, and more than half on those earning under $100,000.
We’ll be paying more for less care and allowing the politicians to take over our health care decisions. Don’t tell me they aren’t going to politicize the process, I know better. They’ll do what it takes to give them greater power.(via)
posted October 14, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Thank you. Wonderful post.
posted October 14, 2009 at 1:04 pm
How fortunate to be a “have” in America. Now if only Michele could discover the “have nots” that the Bible tells us to care the most about.
Look beyond your privilege and self-interest, Michele. It’s good for the soul.
posted October 14, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Infant Mortality Rate pr 1000 live births
Canada 5.04
USA 6.26
Life Expectancy in years
Canada 81.23
USA 78.11
Per Capita Healthcare Expenditures (in US $)
Canada $3173
USA $6096
The United Stats even has a much higher rate of medical tourism, citizens travelling to other countries for healthcare.
posted October 14, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Could we stop making the Canadian/British comparisons of health care, please? There is not one bill in either house of congress that would create anything similar to what those two nations have. Continuing to cite them as examples of where health care reform could take us for either good or bad is simply creating fog as to what actually is happening.
posted October 14, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Why do Democrats (Liberals and Progressives) hate the United States so badly. They are driven by Marxism and little else.
Creepy.
posted October 14, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Why is contemporary Christianity so allied with Right Wing Conservatism? J.C. would decidedly not support Republican ‘fierce individualism’ and the expense of our less fortunate brothers and sisters. J.C. was a capital “L” Liberal. And this post is nonsense. Canadian health system is vastly superior in costs and outcomes to the US system (for that matter, every system in the developed world beats the US system). This post is just more lying, fear-mongering, pandering for the insidious Insurance Companies.
Health Care is a human right, not a marketable commodity. Maybe J.C. was a canuck.
posted October 15, 2009 at 12:26 am
1. the proposals being made are not even close to what canada has.
2. while you may find a very small percentage of cases like these, the vast majority of canadians love their health system and would never trade it for what we have now.
3. the canadian healthcare system is far from “failed”.
4. if you hate government healthcare systems so much, take away the veterans health association and medicare and medicaid and schip. i dare republicans to run on that plank.
5. why do republicans hate their country so much that they are willing to let their fellow americans die so that some insurance CEO can buy that seventh mansion to park his 15th car in front of? they’re so driven by fascism and nothing else.
6. right-wingers have zero credibility.
posted October 15, 2009 at 6:01 am
Regarding the statement that “health care is a right.” I do not believe that the uninsured or otherwise disadvantaged are really helped by such a philosophy. Surely food is a more basic need than health care and no one suggests that we should ask the gov’t to provide us with food; instead we do expect the gov’t to maintain trade and a viable economy so that then we can get the food, etc. that we need. Applying this to health care, the more effective approach would be to address unemployment; remove restrictions in purchasing health insurance across state lines; compensate primary care providers so that medical school graduates can choose primary care and still pay their education loans and work less than 80 hours/week; tort reform so that lawyers no longer influence medical decision making; adjustments that will remove the third party payers from the buffering role that they play between consumers and providers (including hospitals) so that prices have more meaning than merely whatever the most recent negotiations with Medicare determined. This could be done in a step-wise fashion that would address the issues in a way that makes sure that we have a way to pay for them beforehand.
posted October 15, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I suppose Michele’s examples could be just as valid as Michael Moore’s examples of other systems (including Canada’s) that treat patients so much better than the U.S. does.
I am Canadian. I have had 3 operations in my life. Waiting list? Well, if you consider calling up a specialist and making an appointment a waiting list, I guess we do have them. Or, is the specialist supposed to drop all of his/her other patients and treat me first?
The (in-)famous Canadian who went to the U.S. to have her cancer operated on was simply buying her way to the front of the line – something I would have thought Americans would be against (guess not).
My husband has had 7 major operations – on his knees, his head (from a car accident) – the last one, I took him to the Emergency dept. and he was in the operating room 3 hours later. Hmmm, that’s SOME “failure”!
My father had colo-rectal cancer operations. My mother had gangrenous legs. My eldest sister stomach cancer. My middle sister a brain injury. My youngest sister, arthritis.
And for all of these – there was no bill to pay. We get to choose our own doctors and which hospitals we visit. If this is “failure”, let’s all ‘fail’. We’d be healthier (and probably richer) for it.
Sure, we pay more in sales tax – something is always more than nothing – last year while in Florida, I had my sister’s bicycle repaired and there was no sales tax on the parts or on the labor! (Ever think you folks might be under-taxed? Oh no, not possible – see Capitalism thread.)
Heck, even in Cuba, the object of health care is to care for the sick, not figure out ways of denying them treatment (pre-existing conditions? = oh yeah, like that “fat” 3 month old who was denied insurance because of pre-existing conditions.
America, you have lost your soul and your heart. (Not that I see much evidence of either on Michele’s threads.)
posted October 15, 2009 at 2:59 pm
From the first video:
“Most of the doctors are booked up for 2 or 3 weeks”
oooooo, scary. Isn’t 2 or 3 weeks better than, um, NEVER?
“If you want to see your doctor, you’ve got to wait your turn?”
But in America, you can buy your way to the front of the line. That’s SOOO much ‘better’.
“I wore diapers”.
So? Is that better than wearing nothing and soiling yourself? (And reall nice editing job – 3 words clipped with absolutely no context whatsoever. Michael Moore himself would be proud of that hack job. She later adds, “I couldn’t bend, I couldn’t lift, I couldn’t take care of myself or my kids.” These are all symptoms, not a comment on the treatment tehy received for the symptoms.
“I couldn’t put my own underpants on.” (another woman, again without context.) It sounds like a disabilitiy that needs to be treated, not an indictment of the system doing the treating of it.
“(Another woman): “I can’t believe they would let somebody suffer for that long”. Too bad “that long” is never clarified. Scare-monger much?
“They have to be patient with patients in Canada.” Being patient with them is better than refusing to see them at all, imo.
Sorry, Michele, but as usual, you’ve done a (rather piss-poor) hack job. All of my debunking is from the first video alone. If it was so full of Scheisse, I’m not going to take anything else in the others as remotely true either, nor anything else you type with a grain of belief.
Your attitude to the uninsured would make the baby Jesus weep. I’ll just betcha you had insurance to cover your cancer, no? Hope it doesn’t come back ‘cuz methinks then you’d ahve a pre-existing condition.
What a trash heap this junkyard blog is.
posted October 16, 2009 at 9:20 am
The World Health Organization’s ranking of the world’s health systems.
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
posted October 16, 2009 at 9:57 am
The WHO is as credible as the Nobel committee. Laughable.