I think this is the very first RELIGIOUS commentary made by this blooger on this religious website!!! The title of her blog is REFORMED chicks blabbing, not, what would usually be more appropriate for her content, EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN chicks blabbing. Hopefully she has had a change of heart and will be sticking to the purported content of this website. If not, I wish she would leave Beliefnet.com and go to a far right-wing political site instead!

Well said, Michele.

“”I think this is the very first RELIGIOUS commentary made by this blooger on this religious website!!!”"
You demonstrate that you haven’t been reading my blog very long since I comment frequently on religion. I suggest you go to the front blog page and see where this blog is listed and to click on the link where I explain why I blog about politics.
BTW, I’m not a Republican. I’ve left the Republican party because they refuse to follow what they say are their principles (lower taxes, smaller government, etc.).

“It would be un-biblical and cruel to treat them as outsiders”?
Well, how about treating them biblical? See: Deuteronomy 21:18-21, or Exodus 21:15, Exodus 21:17 or Proverbs 30:17
I sure hope that you and your congregation do not follow the word of God, especially in that regard.
Teach children how to think, not what to think…

Teach children how to think, not what to think…
It’s ironic that the article title takes off the Floyd song. C. S. Lewis treated all this relativism, in education firstly like the Floyd, in The Abolition of Man.
Yet children are routinely labelled
By so many things, especially by where they live and who they hang out with. What’s one more thing? Religion is a piece of culture and cannot be escaped. “You can take the child out of the church, but you can’t take the church out of the child.” I happen to think God has grandchildren … and then some. Deut. 5:10. But all ultimately choose for themselves.
Does anyone think that atheists would fairly present the religions of the world to their children
My oldest asked me what makes Presbyterians different from us and I started with listing the three main countries where Presbyterianism originated and then described limited atonement. He was sure that belief was mistaken. Making a fair presentation presupposes the presenter knows something.
cruel (as anyone who has taught their child they can’t take communion until they are older knows).
I’m sorry, I don’t follow you here. Do you advocate paedocommunion? If not, something’s cruel about making them wait?

“Sorry, atheists! But I think it’s pretty dangerous for us to abandon our kids to their own devices when it comes to a belief system.”
Why? What’s the “dangerous” part?

“Does anyone think that atheists would fairly present the religions of the world to their children and then let them decide which belief system is true?”
i’m not an atheist, but this is exactly what i do. why shouldn’t i expect that an atheist could do the same?
“Sorry, atheists! But I think it’s pretty dangerous for us to abandon our kids to their own devices when it comes to a belief system.”
that’s because you are afraid that they may decide that your belief system doesn’t fit them. that’s why people like you favor indoctrination. but the danger isn’t to them, it’s to you and your organized church. no matter, if the kids are smart, they will eventually choose for themselves.

“Teach children how to think, not what to think… ”
I don’t have to teach my children how to think, they’re not idiots, they’ve figured it out. As to teaching them what to think, we can’t do that either. But teaching them about what we believe? That we can do.
BTW, those passages are the requirements for the nation of Israel (Provers 30:17 is wisdom literature — if you noticed, it’s not written in the imperative), since I don’t interpret the Bible in a woodenly literal way (the way atheists tend to do), I understand the distinction.

“that’s because you are afraid that they may decide that your belief system doesn’t fit them. ”
Not really. You forget that I’m a Calvinist and believe that salvation is of God. I have put my trust in him where my daughters are concerned.
“that’s why people like you favor indoctrination.”
Actually, I’m not the best at indoctrination. We take them to church and help them to understand the word of God when they ask, helped them memorize the shorter catechism. But that was about it. But whether they believe it or not is up to them. Not too much I can do
“they will eventually choose for themselves. ”
What you don’t get is that they already do that themselves. They will either reject it outright, or just stop listening and when they leave home, they will fall away just as I did when I got married. I didn’t return to church until the birth of my first child.

“Do you advocate paedocommunion? If not, something’s cruel about making them wait? ”
Of course not! That’s the point of what I was saying. My children wanted to take communion long before I allowed them to do so.
Of course if my children ask me about another religion, I try to explain it to them as accurately as I can.
“Religion is a piece of culture and cannot be escaped.”
That’s a good way to put it.
“what makes Presbyterians different from us…described limited atonement. He was sure that belief was mistaken. ”
You might want to tell him that we take the covenant seriously and believe that we are in union with Christ as well. Limited atonement is part of our larger systematic theology. Explain the whole thing to him and maybe he might see why we believe it
“

“Why? What’s the “dangerous” part?”
It’s dangerous for the children to be raised without guidance (Lord of the Flies came to mind). I do care how they’ll be spending eternity (given the fact that I believe there is hell). Also I was thinking of Mark 9:42.

tell him that we take the covenant seriously and believe that we are in union with Christ as well.
Well, I couldn’t because I don’t know how we differ there. Folks who know tell me we differ, but I don’t know it myself.
When I told him that Christ died for the elect, my son countered that Christ died for everyone. I could have argued a bit further from Sproul – not much further and I probably couldn’t sound convincing – but I also didn’t want to turn him off to discussion altogether. IOW, I let him think he won one to keep him going.
Peace.

I think that parents should not force religion onto kids at an early age. Wait until the child is old enough to make his or her decision, and let them decide.

“It’s dangerous for the children to be raised without guidance (Lord of the Flies came to mind).”
Well, that has nothing to do with this ad campaign. These ads aren’t urging people to raise children without guidance, they’re urging people to not label children with the religious & political beliefs of their parents, which is completely different.
“I do care how they’ll be spending eternity (given the fact that I believe there is hell).”
Inquisitors cared so much, they tortured people to save their souls. No thanks.

I am positively disgusted that one would frighten its own child with the concept of hell, looking them straight in the face saying: You will burn in hell for eternity if you don’t accept Lord Jesus as your savior. How utterly evil is that? Since there is not the slightest evidence that such a place even exist. Where is hell Michelle?
It turns my stomach thinking of the fears and nightmares you are causing your own child because of an ancient book written by man.
I am an atheist, but I would never tell my child that there is no God. That is something they have to figure out themselves by looking at the evidence.
The reason you would not give your child that choice is probably your (well founded) underlying fear it is likely to not be religions if it would objectively look at the evidence.
Oh…and the simple fact that you do not take the bible literally proves that you know right from wrong despite what the bible says.
Congratulations! Clearly a secular accomplishment of society.
(Hell by the way is in invention of the new testament and was not mentioned in the old one)

Sorry Michelle, you are wrong. I was brought up by atheist parents who encouraged me to learn about the various religions, to respect people’s right to their beliefs, and to make up my own mind. And my children were brought up the same way. So when one of my daughters came home from her non-faith but very Christian community primary school and announced that she believed in Jesus and started to read the Bible every day, that was fine by me. She knew that we didn’t share her beliefs, but also that she we respected her beliefs and would encourage her to explore and decide for herself. After a few years she changed her mind – but that was her choice. I think most humanists would take the same line.

Sorry to bring down the intelligence but I think I might simplify things:
Use your brain + use common sense + look at the evidence =
NO GOD
No God = No Relegion = Better World
: )

Religion**

Dale, your argument is invalid due to something called the Tinker Bell effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinkerbell_effect.
A great example is that money has no real value. It only has apparent value because people believe it has value and act accordingly. The minute the farmers realize that money has no real value we’ll all starve.
Which means that humans can derive value from things which are not real. But they must believe in them and act as if they were real.
So an atheist should be willing to admit that this might be true for religion as well. For your statement to be true you must prove that religion had no benefit before assuming its absence would lead to a better world.

I think the UK atheists are tilting at windmills with this one. At some level they’re asking parents not to raise their children. Children naturally model their parents behavior and will self identify with their parents’ religion. When they become adults they may or may not continue to do so.
I read over at the Friendly Atheist blog that the motivation for this campaign are British parochial schools which are eligible for tax payer money. If that’s the case they’re not really getting that message across at all.

Michelle wrote: “Atheists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. all share the values of their belief system with their children. And like Christians, atheists label their children with their religion.”
What do you mean by “religion?” I’m an atheist. I believe that there are no Gods. I don’t have a religion.
Michelle wrote: “Does anyone think that atheists would fairly present the religions of the world to their children and then let them decide which belief system is true?”
My parents are atheists, and they “fairly presented the religions of the world to” me and my siblings. Every atheist family I know well has done the same. And I know a lot of atheist families.
Michelle wrote: “Their children will follow in the path of their parents, just as our children do until they either believe it or reject it.”
Some people have atheist parents, and they themselves are not atheists. I know one person like that.

Michelle wrote: “Sorry, atheists! But I think it’s pretty dangerous for us to abandon our kids to their own devices when it comes to a belief system.”
Could you elaborate on that? What do you mean by a “belief system?” My parents taught me the importance of rationality. I turned out well.

Michelle wrote: “It’s dangerous for the children to be raised without guidance (Lord of the Flies came to mind). I do care how they’ll be spending eternity (given the fact that I believe there is hell). Also I was thinking of Mark 9:42.”
What do you mean “without guidance?” I do think it is important for children to be taught ethics and how to reason well. But I wasn’t brought up in a religious house. Both my parents are atheists. And my siblings and I are good people.

Sounds like the non-believers are running away with this one. Come on the Other Side!

I’m an agnostic by the way, but do people really teach small children about Hell? Surely not.

@Reg. I recommend watching the documentary “Jesus Camp”…
The brain washing done to children by some religious predators, (who truly believe they are doing Gods work) almost rivals Koran schools. My wife walked out under tears…
Nothing like telling 4 and 5 year old how sin-full they are and what awaits them if they dont shape up! Done to thousands of children everyday…

This is merely more atheist propaganda as Richard Dawkins wonders whether there is occasion for “society stepping in” and hopes that such efforts “might lead children to choose no religion at all.” Dawkins also supports the atheist summer camp “Camp Quest.”
Phillip Pullman states the following about his “fictional” books for children, “I don’t think I’m writing fantasy. I think I’m writing realism. My books are psychologically real.” But what does he really write about? As he has admitted, “My books are about killing God” and “I’m trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief.”
More evidence here:
http://atheismisdead.blogspot.com/2009/11/deceptive-manipulative-propagandist.html

Mistake in the article. As an athiest, I can tell you, athiesm is not a religion. I do not go to church. I do not believe in a god. And for the most part, I do not organize or force our beliefs on other people (perhaps to a fault).
Saying Athiesm is a religion is false. Athiesm is the LACK of religion or a belief system with no rituals, dogma, and authority structure (Pope, Cardinal, Bishop etc). Stop calling Athiesm a religion and call it what it is, the lack of one. Common sense developed through seeking a greater understanding of science, the universe, and reailty is what it means to be an Athiest. Calling Athiesm a religion is like calling a mammal a plant. Plain stupid.

Nevertheless, there are atheists, such as Michael Newdow, who claim that atheism is a religion.
Therefore, correct other atheists before attempting to correct theists.

“Does anyone think that atheists would fairly present the religions of the world to their children and then let them decide which belief system is true?”
Well that certainly depends on how you define fairly. My parents never introduced me to religion or any opposition to it. When I was older and came in contact with it my parents pointed me to books talking about both sides and asked me what I thought. When I was in my late teens my parents became open about what they personally believed because I had already decided I was certainly Atheist. I was never told that religion was evil or bad or wrong, but through my own reading came to my own conclusions. I think that is truly the best way they could have gone about it.