Americans of German descent – Oktoberfest

Hey, maybe I missed something but here in DC there are ethnic festivals all the time from Caucasian groups, from the Swedish to the Ukrainians to the Mennonite Church’s German Christmas festival market.
I’m an Anglo Orthodox convert and my husband is a Catholic of French descent, and St. Patrick’s day is always a great teaching moment to tell our son about being a brave saint. (Being kidnapped by pirates makes it cool…)
We have to get up too early to have any green beer, I’m afraid.

Schmitz has a point. Everyone likes to be a victim these days. Here in Chicago, last night there was a special on PBS about the Irish in Chicago and there was a pretty big focus on how hard they had it in Ireland and then the US (in the beginning). But, to the film makers’ credit, they mentioned in some detail the race riots early in the last century precipitated by Irish youth drowning an African-American youth who mistakenly ventured on to the “white” beach.

Like Caroline, I grew up in a big city where there are ethnic festivals all the time. The food is great at every one of them, btw. I never went to the St. Patrick’s Day Parade thinking of victim status. It is to celebrate Irish heritage, and the fact that St. Patrick brought the Gospel to Ireland, not to brood over colonial oppression. The Irish have a way of moving on, and somehow in the midst of difficulty, they managed to write great literature and see the good things in life. My grandfather was part of the Irish Rebellion, and he always told my mother in regard to the English, “That was then, this is now.” That is my experience with my family anyway. And the family back in Ireland seemed to be able to send out several missionary priests around the world, and did not sit around feeling sorry for themselves.
I wonder what he means by the privileged? Has he not seen the old “Irish need not apply” ads from the old days in this country? They were not privileged, and any blessing their descendants enjoy is due to the hard work done by those immigrants. Most of the people at these parades are just average Sheamuses and Patricks, not at all what I would consider privileged. Check out some $300 a plate fundraisers if you want to find the privileged.
Ok, I am off my soapbox. Time for some soda bread.

Thanksgiving is the religious and ethnic feast for Americans of English descent. My father’s family wasn’t off the boat in Plymouth, rather Salem in 1682, but that’s more than close enough.. The Puritans are my kin, and growing up in New England, I was always aware of that.
As for Italian Americans, if you are in Providence (Federal Hill) or in NYC on St. Joseph’s Day – which is March 19th – or on Columbus Day, you get the same sorts of public festivities that you’ll find on St. Patrick’s Day – not as universally celebrated as St. Patrick’s, but still pretty well and passionately feted in the traditionally Italian neighborhoods.
I went to school at Providence College in Rhode Island, which is all Irish and Italian Catholic, and St. Joseph’s Day is just as much an excuse to get smashed in the midst of Lent as St. Paddy’s Day is..

Funny I was talking about this with a co-worker from Ireland on Friday. More people of Irish descent live outside of Ireland than in Ireland, so it’s a diaspora and they have an out sized influence of world culture. It’s why Irish music is so popular too.
However, it’s clear that Matthew Schmitz hasn’t been to Boston. Most people here are of Irish descent and they celebrate St. Patrick’s Day. However, they also celebrate cinco de mayo, the French library’s Bastille day party, Oktoberfest in Cambridge, and Columbus day in the North End Italian.
So that’s a counter example to his claim.

Whaddaya mean, Scandihuvian festivals are no fun! We have plenty of fun, building Wiking ships for the Sons of Norvay parades!

Wha? You didn’t even consider those of us of Scottish decent?! I live in an Irish dominated city in NY. I’m tired of suffering this anti-Scot holiday.

I always thought that part of the fun is that, for both Irish and non-Irish Catholics who live in Irish-dominated dioceses, it’s a feast day that usually falls in the middle of Lent. Back when the Lenten regulations were stricter for Catholics, it was a good excuse to let yourself go for a day. Things kind of snowballed from there.

Since Patrick wasn’t Irish, it should be acceptable for the non-Irish to celebrate his day, don’t you think?

Rod,
Speaking as someone from Boston, I assure you that Italian-Americans are quite into celebrating their heritage, as well. Check out one of the parades on some saint’s feast day through the North End. Or, as MH notes, Columbus Day.

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the ethnic festivals in Milwaukee. Every weekend in summer has one–Polish-, German-, Italian-, Mexican-, Pride- and Irish-fest; Bastille Days; Indian Summer; Arab World, Asian Moon, uhh, that’s off the top of my head. Amazingly, they all involve beer.

I assume that also means that the huge St. Patrick’s Day parade and festivities in Dublin, Ireland are fake? I grow increasingly tired of those who think they must affirm or deny anything other people do, no matter how different. I for one intend to have a cold Guinness today, along with some traditional Irish fare at a pub in the USA, listen to some trad and enjoy some great kids Irish dancing. And being Scots-Irish with a full blooded Irish national for a wife, I enjoy the traditions of both.

Gee… the white guilt and self-loathing here are really overboard. Just exactly why and how are we to be ashamed of English or German heritage that it’s an “end zone dance” of colonial history? Are English- or German-ancestry people supposed to be ashamed of themselves and their heritage for something that happened hundreds of years ago? Did Dr. King’s plea to be judged by the “content of one’s character” get usurped by “race/nationality guilt” as an obligation? Does the author believe in the notion of “reparations” being still owed?
I don’t know where the author lives but Oktoberfest and the Italian Street Fair are big events here in my southeastern USA city. And they are harmless, fun, and worth celebrating. Oh yeah, and we see people of all colors having fun, just like us whiteys enjoy a good Cinco de Mayo party, too.
Point of views that hopelessly politicize, guilt-engender, and attempt to over-think such holidays are one of the reasons we don’t live in the sought-after “post racial” society we imagine we should have accomplished by now. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, nobody hates white people like a white liberal.

http://www.germanparadenyc.org/

St. Patrick’s Day is not “Irish Day.” It is a celebration of St. Patrick who used the 3 leaf clover to explain to the Irish people about the Holy Trinity. This day is a Christian day of celebration of a truly remarkable man.

I respect everyone’s comments and points of view. All are very valid. What I was understanding from reading this article is that there was a time not so long ago that most of the world’s society looked down on the Irish community. It wasn’t “cool” to be Irish and now everyone loves to be “Irish” at least for a day as it provides another reason to party. However, as was pointed out, this is happening to all cultures, but I’m not so sure there was as much disdain for the other cultures – except for the Polish. Yet, this is the beauty of our society today slowly finding a way to accept other ethic groups, and unfortunately a lot of society only do so when it’s “convenient.” Too many people treat Mexicans horribly and yet the majority love to celebrate Cindo de Mayo! Same concept.
I really didn’t feel that the author of the article was trying to cause a huge rift, only merely point out his views.
Cheers & Happy St. Paddy’s Day everyone!!

I have heard from some police officers that St. Patrick’s Day is the worst holiday for them because it is people drinking for absolutely no reason (unlike, say, New Year’s Eve). That “absolutely no reason” tells you that St. Patrick’s Day has long been divorced from celebrating the saint in question or Irish heritage or what have you. It’s just a reason for my college students to get drunk. This is why I take no account of St. Patrick’s Day despite being Catholic with some Irish background.

Sadly, St Patty’s Day is as much about Patrick’s faith as Easter is about Jesus’ resurrection. We have excised the Holy from our holidays and made them excuses for poor and boorish behavior. Ever wonder why some of the African American’s do not also celebrate St Patty’s day, though many of them may also have Irish in their ancestry – perhaps even more than many Anglo celebrants? Because their ancestors may have been unwilling participants in the blending of the peoples.
Ah, but I’ll no further spill catsup in your corned beef ‘n cabbage. It is an American tradition not to think too deeply about our revelries. Even it you’re a poser, a wan’na-be Leprechaun, or simply wear green to avoid a pinch – have a joyous day and may the Green Spring soon between your toes!

I think it’s simpler than all that. It’s an excuse to get drunk. Irish people are famous drunks, and people who want an excuse to binge will seize on any excuse they can get. It’s why Halloween has become such a major bar night as well. And New Year’s Eve, because starting the year with a hang-over is so awesome!
Seriously, people double-think these things to excess.

Just a teeny problem with his analysis – St Patrick Day celebrations in the US predate the massive immigration of poor Irish Catholics – who then experienced all this hatred, discrimination etc. The first official St Paddy’s Day in the US was proclaimed by none other than George Washington in Morristown NJ during the Revolution.
The St. Patrick’s Day parade in NYC is 250 years old and was originally an affluent Irish Protestant event. There originally was an attempt to keep those wretched Catholic Irish out of the parade but after some fisticuffs – the Catholics immigrants got in and took it over.
Sure among the young and the foolish St. Patrick’s Day is about getting drunk but that does not mean that for many it is not a day to celebrate other things like heritage. And frankly – affluent white Irish Americans should celebrate their origins and what they have accomplished. It is the realization of the classic American myth of opportunity right?
I do agree that St. Patrick tends to get ignored in all this. So in honor of this great man – he was the son of a Roman citizen and was probably born in Wales. He was kidnapped and enslaved for about 15 years. He escaped and returned to Rome where he enters a seminary and eventually becomes the Bishop of a Roman province. At the age of 47 he goes back to Ireland. The first letter we have that protests slavery was written by Patrick. He Christianize d not just Ireland but then the Irish go off and convert the Scots and the north of England. He gives the Irish an alphabet which starts their great literary tradition. He starts a monastic movement which helps to preserve literacy and libraries after the collapse of Rome and then those Monks move into western Europe and help to restore literacy, libraries and learning. He is also responsible for the practice of ongoing/frequent confession/penance. So he is quite an important figure. We have comments from him in his book “The Confession” expressing his appreciation for red haired Irish woman and their proud spirit. And of course – he banished the snakes from Ireland. So hey – raise a glass of Guinness to his memory. And don’t forget to leave some milk out for the little people.

Oh, hell, here where I live, even Black people are walking around in Green today. And Hispanics. Nobody cares. It’s America. Anybody’s holiday is everybody’s because all of us are one of us. Party on!
I have two growlers of locally brewed beer in the fridge. Took it home on the city bus. Discussing the vagaries of the Veteran’s Affair rating system with a fellow Vet (he did his time in ‘Nam.) Trying to convince my uncle to come over and join us tonight.
Beer and Star Trek Original series – a series so rich for drinking game possibilities, because it’s so repetitive. Red shirt dies, drink up. “He’s dead, Jim.” Drink up. “Phasers on stun.” Ditto. Vulcan mind meld, yep. Kirk kissing alien woman, got it. “Hailing frequencies are open.” You’d better believe it…

Andra:
Are English- or German-ancestry people supposed to be ashamed of themselves and their heritage for something that happened hundreds of years ago?
Both of those groups have unique histories in the U.S. To a very large extent, popular celebrations of ethnic or religious heritage need an on-going commitment over generations to perpetuate themselves. For pretty obvious reasons, up to, during, and after the American Revolution, loudly proclaiming and celebrating ones Englishness became less and less uh… popular.
German or Prussian pride, on the other hand, was quite acceptable and real up to WWI. It suffered somewhat due to WWI, but the killer was WWII. The de-Germanifation of America was pretty dramatic. Changes in place names, people abandoning their family names, entire towns switching to English. The awkwardness of celebrating ones shared heritage with the nation’s enemy in war was further complicated by the attitude of the new wave of immigrants from “German lands” before and after the war. Many of them wanted nothing to do with Germany.
nobody hates white people like a white liberal
yawn

” It really would be weird to think about an ethnic festival for any of the other major white groups in this country. Can’t do English because of their complicated relationship with the founding of America (we fought them, after all). Germans? Self-explanatory. ”
Oktoberfest.

Ever heard of Columbus day and the Columbus day Parades? Kind of a moronic post by Rod

You may not be aware, but Columbus Day is very much celebrated by Italian-Americans (at least where I live in San Francisco). Of course THAT is complicated, because Native Americans take a different view of Columbus…

Re: We have excised the Holy from our holidays and made them excuses for poor and boorish behavior.
An old, and widespread problem. In the Middle Ages many holy days were occasion of riotous popular festivity. In Greece Easter Eve is treated the way we do New Years Eve (but with ouzo). The Puritans didn’t hate Christmas for no good reason: it was a drunken party day for yobs back in the 1600s.

@ noramsey
Yes, Columbus Day is uncomplicated in light of Native American protests. However, I have also seen San Genaro festivals take place as sort of an ‘italian ethnic’ festival thing, not just a religious celebration. Of course, those festivals are nowhere near as widespread as St. Patrick’s day festivities.

Um, what about the Scots? I spent the whole day ‘green-free’ choosing instead to wear a vest with the McKenzie Clan(on my mum’s side) tartan. I wished everyone I saw a “Happy St. Andrew’s Day”.
The vest is part of a vest-kilt combo, but I thought that might be too much.

what, you folks never went to a Renaissance Faire?
Full of Merry Olde England (and other areas as well.)

I’m with the others who live in festival-prone cities. Irishfest, Scottish games, festa italiana, germanfest, polishfest, juneteenth, asian moon, indian summer, bastille days, arabian fest, bristol renaissance faire … and all the groups too small for their own fest can go on stage at State Fair. We celebrate any crowd large enough to pay rent on the festival grounds.
St. Patricks’ day is a little different though, in that it’s celebrated all over the city, just (almost exactly) like Friday fish fry. It’s fascinating to read about how it got started here.

Considering that a plurality of white-Americans are of German ancestry and the ubiquitous nature of German-American contributions to the country (Christmas trees, beer, hamburgers, blue jeans, Kindergarten, etc.), I’m surprised that German heritage isn’t more acknowledge regardless of WWII (German-American generals commanded American troops in both World Wars by the way). Outside of politics, Irish contributions to the U.S. pale in comparison to the Germans.

I live in a small Southern town. At Wal-Mart today, I saw one African-American checker with green shamrocks painted on her face. She gave her big green clothespin to another checker to wear for St. Patrick’s Day. When my husband and I go on vacation, we love to visit ethnic festivals. We’ve been to some Italian and Greek festivals with great food and music. Everyone is welcome, and we haven’t seen any drunks. Makes me proud to be an American.

Here in Seattle we constantly have festivals celebrating ethnic heritage. St. Patrick’s Day is a big one, but so is Syttende Mai (Norwegian, with a parade), Chinese New Year, and lots of others (Hmong, Vietnamese, Polish, Russian, African-American). They are all open to the public and many people of all ethnicities and races take part.
Syttende Mai, BTW, is one of the biggest public celebrations here, and is across the U.S. I don’t speak for all Norwegian-Americans, but I certainly don’t think it’s “weird” to celebrate our ethnic heritage. Perhaps you should just relax, take a deep breath, and enjoy the thing.

Not a hint of St. Patrick’s day celebration here in Ohio, but Oktoberfest is a day-long celebration.

The only ones who celebrated St. Patrick’s Day here were the bars, with week long specials on beer. There are numerous lutefisk suppers and a big Scandinavian-American festival here every fall, however. The Germans are more plentiful but they’re pretty careful to make sure you know they’re actually Germans from Russia. I’m an American mutt. I have ancestry from every country in northern and several in western Europe. I can celebrate any of the ethnic festivals from Octoberfest to Norsk Hostfest to St. Patrick’s Day and be perfectly within my rights.

@ Rosh (and others): Actually, German heritage festivals used to be a Very Big Deal in this country, as did all things German. To give you a sense of how ubiquitous it was—there are quite a lot of American towns where all the 19th-century official documents are actually *in German*! Which puts a different spin on “English-only” protests now…
What stopped it was the war—not the Second, but the First. During WWI, there were waves of anti-German feeling in the country, and the huge parades and street fairs that used to happen all across the Midwest and Northeast stopped more or less overnight.

Yeah, I have to second another commenter. I am visiting in New Orleans right now and there are a lot of black folk celebrating St. Patrick’s Day, as there also are in NYC, my hometown. To call it a white thing isn’t exactly right.

We had corned beef and cabbage (in soup form) for Tuesday dinner, and are having left overs today. So a statistician would say we had it for St. Patrick’s Day on Wednesday.