Wow, so I guess this isn’t a parody? Good gravy.

But this hokey-pokey charade undertaken by actual adults is something else.
It’s just an excuse to pursue an ecstatic experience. It’s sort of refreshing in it’s transparency. Some religions go to great lengths to justify the same thing, building complex theologies around a pretty basic human desire. Better the hokey-pokey than hallucinatory drugs. Mind you, I have no such desire, so I might be completely wrong.
I happen to live down the street from St. John Coltrane African Orthodox Church.
http://www.coltranechurch.org/
I’m unclear on their theology, but their taste in ecstatic vehicle seems a lot better than that of the video above.

Exactly, Rod, which is why, though this is quite funny to watch on one level, it is so deeply damaging it is to the body of Christ.
Rod, this video clip appears to be from MorningStar Ministries.
I’ve written several times in the past here about the harmful “prophetic movement” that is worming its way through American evangelicalism right now — what you see in this video is the leading edge of that movement. It is hypercharismatic, the most extreme expression of charismania.
It is truly blasphemous. I urge any Christian who adheres to mere orthodoxy to familiarize yourself with some of the leading lights of this movement, such as Bill Johnson (Redding, California) and Mike Bickle (Kansas City).
It is an outgrowth of harmful and heretical latter rain theology, which has led to various iterations such as the prosperity gospel, Word of Faith movement, and the signs and wonders movement of the 1990s. It is completely experiential, is based on sheer emotionalism, is anti-intellectual, revives paganism, adopts New Age practices, and is utterly devoid of any doctrinal understanding or theological depth.
What you’re seeing in this video is the sort of thing that caused the now-deceased iMonk blogger Michael Spencer (rest in peace ) to declare in a column last year that American evangelicalism was headed for a quick demise: http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-prediction-the-coming-evangelical-collapse-1
I don’t come to these criticisms lightly. If you’d like to see a far more disturbing sample of Morningstar’s “worship,” then go to this YouTube clip. I’ll warn you it’s very difficult to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDM7HWapwPs

My 3 yr old daughter was watching this with me and her unasked for opinion: “I really don’t like it.” LOL.

Rod-
That was the wrong link to Torquemada. I think you meant maybe this interpretation of Torquemada was on to something- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppHeMlaLVM
A church rented our facility this Easter and out of what I assume was an attempt to be relevant, had a hip-hop Passion Play where Jesus broke out his b-boy moves.
I was somewhat aghast to say the least.

Just a last observation here: Everyone who is a faithful Christian needs to understand what this is all about — it’s emblematic of an entire movement that is charging rapidly through American evangelicalism, not just in the traditional charismatic settings.
It is not something that is idiosyncratically limited to the South, but is emerging all over the United States (Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church in Redding, California is a prime example).
From my armchair historian’s standpoint, here’s what I think basically occurred: As the traditional evangelical churches emptied out and lost membership to the nondenominational mega-churches, people initially were excited by these new venues. But the banality of the mega-churches soon began to create a longing for more authentic spirituality. This led to the rise of the house church movement in the late ’90s and earlier part of this century.
The prophetic movement has now swept into both mega-church settings and house church settings as the “answer” to the longing for a deeper experience. It is essentially a form of neo-gnosticism.
As Michael Spencer predicted, “Charismatic-Pentecostal Christianity will become the majority report in evangelicalism. Can this community withstand heresy, relativism, and confusion? To do so, it must make a priority of biblical authority, responsible leadership, and a reemergence of orthodoxy.”
On the evidence, I’d say the opposite is happening from what Spencer would have hoped for — no reemergence of orthodoxy but the revival of something else entirely. Strange days are here.

Yeesh. I don’t even like holding hands in Mass.

Of course, people lining up for the body and blood of Christ seems pretty nuts to most people. Or standing around while guys in robes swing incense and chant with the crowd chants back like zombies.
But here’s the thing. We all have different ways of experiencing the Scriptures and God’s love. Maybe it’s with puppets or maybe its with guys in robes chanting and swinging incense. Maybe it’s doing the Spiritual Hokey Pokey or maybe its lining up for the actual Blood and Body of Christ.
Focusing on the aesthetics (or the music) of the experience misses the entire point.

Sorry Peter, I respectfully disagree.
That’s a common comeback used by those steeped in this movement — to each his own “worship style.”
While there is a good deal of diversity in the body of Christ, this is about something much more. It is a troubling development, much more about substance and content than any differences of aesthetics or taste.
Incidentally, I am speaking from personal experience. I know well what the prophetic movement is all about, and how it divides churches.
Watch the YouTube clip I linked above to see a little bit more of what I’m talking about.

Leave it to Christians to turn the hokey pokey into a bacchanal.
In all seriousness, though, I don’t understand this. I understand people may be looking for a deeper spiritual experience, or an ecstatic experience. But what do you have to do to convince people that they can use the hokey pokey as an incantation to heal people?
That ain’t grace, it’s magic.

This video varies little from the Charismatic Pentecostal Church in which I grew up, and accounts for most of the reasons I left it.
Also, it very much mirrors the emotional abuse that is common in this frenzied ecstasy in that tradition. It is similarly (and accurately portrayed in the documentary, “Bible Camp” – only their the intended target are youth who easily emotionally ‘persuaded’.
What a painful reminder of the emptiness of that faith’s message for me.

While there is a good deal of diversity in the body of Christ, this is about something much more. It is a troubling development, much more about substance and content than any differences of aesthetics or taste.
But yours isn’t an aesthetic concern, but a substantive one. I don’t believe in faith healing any more than I believe in transubstantiation. Again, focusing on the aesthetics is missing the point.
To athiests, believing Jesus was crucified and rose three days later, after being born after immaculate conception, is as ludicrous as faith healing or the Holy Hokey Pokey. So where’s the line?

I couldn’t even make it to the 2 minute mark. My skin was crawling off of me to get away.

Houghton
I don’t come to these criticisms lightly. If you’d like to see a far more disturbing sample of Morningstar’s “worship,” then go to this YouTube clip. I’ll warn you it’s very difficult to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDM7HWapwPs
You weren’t kidding. I wonder what a trained anthropologist would make of that video. Disturbing doesn’t begin to describe that.

What would an anthropologist say about this? Men in robes with mystery water and a mystery spoon praying over a baby who is now saved for eternity while people chant and sing in the background.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l09khpR4XVk
Many people find this very “disturbing.”
One man’s sacred is another man’s crazy.

Jesus died. You mock. Many were healed. You can’t tell those folks who no longer have pain, or other symptoms, that God is limited and can only operate in a certain way – the way YOU think He should.

Oh, dear sweet Lord, we SO do not ever, ever want to see that guy release his glory…

Holy Pokey, Batman (and Gumby) – is that really “what it’s all about”?

Peter
Point taken. I will point out that all cultures have some common features such as gender division of labor and sacred rites of some form. The ‘ceremony’ shown in the link provided by Houghton looks like a mishmash of Eastern mysticism, pagan influences and charismatic Christianity. I could not make heads or tails of it, but I would have left the church had I been there. An anthropologist, especially with experience in religion, might be able to shed some light on the aspects of what was happening and where some of the more bizarre (by our cultural standards) aspects of the service originated.

My Dearest Beloveds -
With all due respect to those who claim that they would flee from such if they encountered it in real life:
Good luck with that – the emotional confusion, the strangeness of the behaviors, the pounding, throbbing rhythms, the seeming cries for help – you would be drawn in and seduced by these warlocks and even as you realized that you were acting in a crazy way, you would keep doing it. Your reason would detach inself like a soul floating over its corpse and you would marvel as you lost yourself into the experience.
This is primal, reason-destroying/corrupting stuff, and as much as you might blather about your repulsion at, and rejection of, a grainy video of it, until you set foot in the fire, you will never grasp the burn.
“When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them” (Acts 2:1-4).
Captcha: “duped month” – perfect.
Bless you!

BobSF: Better the hokey-pokey than hallucinatory drugs.
I don’t know about that….

On the one hand, these people are clearly more “spiritually alive” than the cradle Orthodox. After all, they put their whole body in, and that’s what it’s all about, right?
I now hope Stayin’ Alive never goes into the Public Domain.

White people at our worst.

“This is primal, reason-destroying/corrupting stuff”
Truth of the year, that. Then again, evangelicals aren’t much into “reason”.

I looked at some of the other YouTube videos on Morningstar Fellowship, and they make the Holy Ghost Hokey Pokey look innocuous. This group is not evangelical, much as they may claim to be; they are playing with fire. They may indeed be calling down spirits, but to my eyes, anyway, those spirits don’t look holy.

The keyword is … power, and you here it “commanded” in all such gatherings.
While virtue and righteousness are always from G-d, power … not necessarily.
It seems to me that these congregations are in serious (no make that dire) need of some of the Gift of Discernment.

You know, it’s a woeful thing to judge the whole by only a couple of the more chaotic, undisciplined parts.
I’m sure some of the people making these criticisms are the exact same ones who say, “Don’t blame the Catholic Church just because of a few perverted priests and corrupt bishops…”
I’ve had recent experiences with charismatic worship. I have listened to Bill Johnson (via computer video). He is not a fanatic. He is not an overly emotional zombie. I have never heard him call down spirits. In fact, I have never heard anybody call down spirits. His presentations from the pulpit are calm and logical.I have attended numerous charismatic services over the past six months. As someone who was baptized as a Catholic, I find them more honest and spiritually committed than the Mass, transubstantiation or no transubstantiation.
Why? Not because of the more melodramatic expressions of “charismatic” behavior but because of the genuine love and caring that congregants express not only to each other but to strangers.
I have personally experienced this in the wake of my mother’s death six months ago from a quickly metastasizing cancer. Through such people, God has provided me with a spiritual cushion that has enabled me not only to retain my faith in Him, but to have that faith deepened in ways I never thought possible.
As far as “intellectualism” is concerned, I’ve had my fill of “intellectualism.” That doesn’t mean that Christians should not use their minds or explore questions deeply. That does mean, however, that intellectualism is rather cold comfort when the soul experiences tremendous anguish and pain, even unto death. Remember Christ in Gethsemane and on the cross, people! Remember, also, that the religious sophisticates, like the Saduccees, put Christ on that cross!!
Besides, when it comes to sin, among the best practitioners are the “intellectual” bishops who have allowed the innocent to be destroyed in the name of institutional self-protection — and the professional “apologists” who refuse to look at those sins in the name of distorted notions of “apostolic authority.”
Now, I’m perfectly aware that charismatics can become so infatuated with “signs and wonders” to the extent that other things are excluded. I recently had an argument with one on Facebook. His desire to heal exceeded the compassion and sensitivity to the broken-hearted that all Christians are called to display.
But I should tell you that the liturgical churches can get so infatuated w/liturgy and sacraments, and the fundamentalists churches can get so infatuated with their own interpretations of Scripture. This is a human problem, not a theological one.
Besides, ask yourselves if the bishops’ “intellectuality” helped them confront moral evil among their own ranks.

On second thought, maybe Torquemada was onto something…
Rod, do you really want to go there, even in jest?

Joseph,
I understand what you’re saying. Good points all. But I can say that I have personal experience with this movement, and it is not what it appears to be. What I’m going to write below may seem harsh, but I’m hoping it will wake people up.
I would say that I think you need to look a little more into Bill Johnson — he presents a calm front, but has also been a part of the angel-feathers-and-gold-dust craze and he is expressing the worst elements of “signs and wonders” heresy, all of which can be traced back to latter rain theology. He also endorsed Todd Bentley (a fact he later came to regret) — Morningstar is Bentley’s home base currently, as he is undergoing “restoration” after a scandal during his Florida “revival.” One of the worst “praise songs” at Bethel, which found its way into worship at my own church, asked heaven to come down and touch earth with a “big wet sloppy kiss.”
I think theology matters, and doctrine matters. And they matter because you can get very far off track in churches like this that disregard both. And what I was referring to in talking about anti-intellectualism is an attitude that rejects rational thought in favor of emotionalism and subjective experience. That attitude is the prevalent attitude in hypercharismatic churches and in the “charismania” of the prophetic movement. Gentle questions and legitimate concerns are met with a dismissive attitude — you’re just “turning away from God” or “missing out on the new move of God” (My question kept being, “What about the old move? What about the miracle of the Resurrection?”).
The best example that sums up the anti-intellectualism in this movement is the catch-phrase/conversation stopper, “God offends the mind in order to reveal the heart.” This is neither rational nor Scriptural, and it is used over and over to shut down people who are feeling unease in their spirit about the sorts of things you see in the Morningstar videos.
In case people are wondering what the connection is between the “hokey pokey” video Rod links and Morningstar and Bill Johnson — they’re all part of a closely-knit “prophetic movement,” “prophetic evangelism,” “the apostolic-prophetic revival,” etc. The shifting names are hard to keep up with. Many old-style Pentecostal churches have also dropped their old names in favor of generic “Apostolic Worship Center” names in order to attract new people.
Recently, Johnson and his wife also linked arms in a special service in Kansas City in a sort of “triumvirate” with Mike Bickle in Kansas City and John and Carol Arnott (founders of the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship). The Arnotts, of course, are responsible for the “Toronto Blessing” at TACF that featured “holy drunkenness,” being “slain in the Spirit” and “holy laughter.”
Bickle is the progenitor of the “24-hour prayer” at his home base in Kansas City – International House of Prayer. This amounts to endless extemporaneous prayer (they don’t like form prayers in the prophetic movement) which themselves become cliched and lifeless and it is definitely a manifestation of fear of man. It is a mistaken way of seeing God, that we must call Him down and He will only show up if we engage in zealous amounts of ecstatic worship and mind-numbing repetitive “praise music.”
At Johnson’s Bethel Church, they engage in “treasure hunts” in which a group of people develops a paper list basically by practicing diviniation (they call it “hearing a word of knowledge” which is of course mentioned in 1 Corinthians, but in the “Signs and Wonders” movement it ends being forced and concocted or the equivalent of a magic trick) . Anyway, with this list — “blue shirt,” “yellow car,” “man with a beard,” etc. — they fan out into Redding to see if something matches the descriptions on the list. If they find something that vaguely represents the conditions on the list, they approach that person to ask if they can pray for them. Bethel has even put out a book on the practice: http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Treasure-Hunt-Supernatural-Evangelism/dp/0768426022/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272151446&sr=8-1
Here are some additional stories about Bethel and Bill Johnson:
http://www.redding.com/news/2010/jan/19/bethels-signs-and-wonders-include-angel-feathers/
http://www.redding.com/news/2010/jan/18/faith-healings-dead-raising-teams-part-of-bethel/

I’ve had recent experiences with charismatic worship.
This is no more charismatic than your dog.

One of the clips shared above reminded me of the late, great Andy Kaufman. Talk about glossalalia…

“among the best practitioners are the “intellectual” bishops who have allowed the innocent to be destroyed in the name of institutional self-protection — and the professional “apologists” who refuse to look at those sins in the name of distorted notions of “apostolic authority.”"
Valid enough points, Joseph. Regarding the apologists you dealt with, I think many probably know who we are talking about, their behavior not only toward you (and Rod for that matter) but also their general attitude toward the scandal is atrocious and embarrassing. To me, some of them take the concept of sola scriptura they held as protestants and super-impose it on the papacy. Not really an accurate attitude. By the way, if anyone wants to become ill to the stomach, head over to American Spectator and check out an article on the scandal written a few days ago–the article itself I wouldn’t call sick but rather many of the com-box writings.
Regarding some of the bishops, yes, even those who are highly intelligent can become so blind that their actions defy basic common sense (and decency).

Hey Rod; if you overlap the Hokey & Suzanne Hinn simultaneously (viewing the lovely Suzanne w/Hokey in the background) you come out with a pretty kick-a$$ clip

I’m not sure if it makes this seem better or worse for me to point how much this reminds me of both a rock concert and an Obama campaign stop.

Several points:
1. Rod, it’s profoundly disingenuous (to say the least) to post one video clip and say it accurately represents an entire movement or theological approach. That’s the exact same thing Mark Shea did to try to destroy Peggy Noonan’s credible criticism of the Church’s handling of the clerical sex-abuse crisis, and it’s way beneath you.
2. “This is no more charismatic than your dog.” Well, Chris, tell that to Rod and the other posters on this thread. They’re the ones who made the connection between one foolish incident and an entire approach.
3. Houghton, specifically how much experience have you had with this movement?
4. While I understand the concerns about doctrine and theology, I also understand that doctrine and theology can be (and have been) used to divide fellow Christians unnecessarily and create an attitude of self-righteous vanity that dishonors God (seen any blogs, lately?). From my own brief experience, the charismatics I’ve met stress God’s profound love for his creation and His desire to draw people into relationship with Him. What is so wrong with that fact, which is Scriptural, even in the face of the excessive behavior of some people?

3. Houghton, specifically how much experience have you had with this movement?
Joseph,
Plenty and let’s leave it at that. Enough for us to leave our church and seriously contemplate becoming an Orthodox (what’s weird is that I hadn’t read Michael Spencer’s piece on the demise of evangelicalism as I began considering the Orthodox church, but what he wrote before he died about many evangelicals becoming increasingly disenchanted and looking to Orthodoxy now makes perfect sense to me).
Everything I’ve related above comes from a two-year-long saga. Contrary to what the leaders of this movement try to claim, God doesn’t “offend the mind to reveal the heart.” This is used to excuse things that lack discernment as “spiritual.” No, if the mind is offended, it’s for a reason — because God gave us reason.
The God that I have encountered would not debase humans and make them get down on all fours and make animal noises or act as if they’re getting a contact marijuana high from the Holy Spirit.

Houghton, thank you very much for your honesty. I will do some more exploration and consider your perspective under advisement. If you wish to contact me privately, you may e-mail me. Rod has my e-mail address, if you wish to contact him.
Don Altobello, thank you very much, as well, for your support and understanding of my predicament, Rod’s and others’ concerning these “apologists.”

I skimmed through it after the first minute, stopping at a few points. Shared delusion and mass hysteria, IMO. Yes, I find it troubling. On a related note, I’ve watched several interviews with the family of Nadia Bloom, the young girl recently rescued from the Florida swamps, which certainly stands as a miracle. Yet, as I listen to her church members and parents talk about what the Lord has done, I start yelling at the television. Robots is what they sound like to me. Cult members. It is truly disturbing, even though I am thrilled that Nadia was rescued.

I’m kind of confused, wouldn’t the very name “Morningstar” (an epithet of that Lucifer fellow Evangelicals are always going on about) be a dead giveaway that something is a little fishy here? I mean, really? Is there a “Lightbringer Ministries” out there? A “Church of the Accuser”?

Allen, “Morningstar” also is a synonym for Christ. See Revelation 22:16. According to that verse, Christ applies it to Himself.