We often look at the religious landscape in binary terms - believers vs. nonbelievers, churchgoers vs. atheists, the "religious" vs. "secularists". It's time too add a new group: "pious but not religious." For a while now, some pollsters have tracked...
==How do they feed their spiritual thirst? They have become their own spiritual general contractors, pulling information and nourishment from a variety of sources.==
Each going their own way:
(Ecc 12:12) And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
(Mar 5:9) And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
(Mat 7:13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
(Joh 10:9) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(Rev 3:20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(2Ti 3:1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2Ti 3:2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(2Ti 3:3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(2Ti 3:4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
(2Ti 3:5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
(2Ti 3:6) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
(2Ti 3:7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
(2Ti 3:8) Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(2Ti 3:9) But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
(2Ti 3:13) But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
(2Pe 3:3) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
(2Pe 3:4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
(2Pe 3:5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
(2Pe 3:6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
(2Pe 3:7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Mr. Incredible
June 27, 2008 11:52 AM
==...information and nourishment from a variety of sources.==
After all, didn't Jesus say
"Goeth into all the world and teacheth men to liveth as they wish, urging each to pursue and findeth his own path to God.
"Letteth not any one of you maketh another to feel inferior, nor victiminized, because of their beliefs. Above all, I saith unto you, be tolerant, even of those who choose not to follow Me.
"Verily, verily, I saith unto you that what you believe and how you live do not matter, as long as you are pure of heart in your own judgment and might in your pursuits.
"I am a way to God, a truth and just one possible life, and, if you are a good person, you walk that way, that truth, that life, for that is all it takes, and, if you choose not to come to the Father through Me, rather through some other, simply being a good person will enter you into the Kingdom of Heaven regardless of the way you choose.
"Now, goeth forth into all the world to liveth according to the strength and ways of your own conscience, dreams, wishes and vision."
Charles Cosimano
June 27, 2008 12:06 PM
If the Bible is against it, if there are church folks who are worried about it, it can only be good.
Mr. Incredible
June 27, 2008 5:11 PM
==If the Bible is against it, if there are church folks who are worried about it, it can only be good.==
Well, that was most certainly the Devil's message to Eve in the Garden. The Devil is happy that his message is still taken so seriously.
Mr. Incredible
June 28, 2008 12:27 PM
==If the Bible is against it, if there are church folks who are worried about it, it can only be good.==
What's "good"?
Mr. Incredible
June 28, 2008 12:32 PM
==If the Bible is against it, if there are church folks who are worried about it, it can only be good.==
"Thou shalt not murder." The Word of God is against murder.
Soooooo, according to you, if the Word of God is against murder, murder can only be good????
If the Word of God is against adultery, adultery can only be good???? [I'd buy a ticket to see the look on your wife's/husband's face when you tell him/her that.]
cychan
June 28, 2008 2:17 PM
reading the Bible says we must also fellowship. t.v. and radio are not particularly interactive.
Mr. Incredible
June 28, 2008 2:47 PM
==reading the Bible says we must also fellowship. t.v. and radio are not particularly interactive.==
However...
(1Jn 1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another...
Teevee and radio can educate and encourage brothers and sisters in Christ, and, so, there is a fellowship there.
La Dolce Vita
June 29, 2008 10:56 AM
Many earnest people seek to reconnect with brick-and-mortar houses of worship only to discover that the experience challenges their faith more than nourishes it. The social dynamic at the congregational level is often rife with bewildering varieties of interpersonal dysfunctions ranging from the harmlessly creepy and annoying to the downright disturbing and destructive.
The impulse to cite 20-odd Bible verses as a means of summing up and dismissing a thoughtfully articulated observation that deserves more serious discussion is off-putting to many people. But it is by no means the worst offense one is likely to encounter inside a church.
Mr. Incredible
June 29, 2008 2:23 PM
==Many earnest people seek to reconnect with brick-and-mortar houses of worship only to discover that the experience challenges their faith more than nourishes it.==
That's because God's House is not made with hands.
==The social dynamic at the congregational level is often rife with bewildering varieties of interpersonal dysfunctions ranging from the harmlessly creepy and annoying to the downright disturbing and destructive.==
We know you're trying to sound academic in order to impress. Translate that for those of us who are not as intelligent as you are.
==The impulse to cite 20-odd Bible verses as a means of summing up and dismissing a thoughtfully articulated observation that deserves more serious discussion is off-putting to many people.==
The impulse to dismiss 20-odd Bible verses as a means of dismissg a thoughtfully-articulated observation that deserves more serious discussion is off-putting to many people, too.
Mr Incredible
June 29, 2008 2:27 PM
==The impulse to cite 20-odd Bible verses as a means of summing up and dismissing a thoughtfully articulated observation that deserves more serious discussion is off-putting to many people. ==
You don't have to accept our evidence, and we don't have to accept yours. It's a two-way street, dontcha think?
The fact of the matter is that these and other message boards are nothing but ping-pong games. Somebody hits the ball; the other person hits it back. The person hits it back; the other person hits it back. And so on. Oh, well.
Elinor Dandrea
June 30, 2008 10:42 AM
"By thy fruits I will know you"
I believe its more how we live His Truth, than where we learn it or whose church we attend.
What good is any of it..if we dont make ourselves His living Word?
If our daily lives arent the best expressions of He who sent US?
Mr. Incredible
July 2, 2008 9:18 AM
=="By thy fruits I will know you"==
Who said THAT?
Mr. Incredible
July 2, 2008 9:21 AM
==...its more how we live His Truth...==
How is that?
Rob
July 3, 2008 7:48 PM
Unbowed (A "Jeffersonian" hymn)
Concerning what is sacred, often I'm alone:
Set apart from other men; a sect all my own.
Pious men of good report assume that I've no God
Because the path I've chosen is not the path they trod.
But I have a god—though not the God of most:
No distant king, or vengeful Judge, or angry Lord of Hosts.
The glory of my God is everywhere revealed,
In burning sun, in languid moon, in heaven, sea and field;
In every law which keeps the earth and all things in it bound
The mind of my most gracious God is waiting to be found.
And man—of all God’s creatures—can learn his grand design,
so in the name of nature’s god, I hold this truth divine:
Free each man was born,
And free each man remains
Though he’s beaten and he’s torn,
And weighted down in chains.
In the strength of his convictions
He can stand before the crowd:
His heart beats free
And his head remains unbowed.
For there’s something in a man
That should not be denied—
Though it’s often sacrificed,
And for its sake men have died,
Paying the ultimate price.
Let persecutions come,
Let calumny defame;
The cause of human liberty
Flows onward unrestrained;
Should other voices fail,
I will sing strong and loud:
“My heart beats free!
My head remains unbowed!”
(From the musical play, "First Freedom." )
www.firstfreedomproductions.com
Anonymous
July 14, 2008 8:29 AM
Who said, "By thy fruits I will know you"?
Mr. Incredible
July 16, 2008 12:54 PM
I guess nobody, including the poster who claims it, wants to answer the question, "Who said, 'By thy fruits I will know you'?"
Dan Nygaard
February 18, 2009 8:09 PM
http://www.hopecommunity.org
I'm guessing 75% of the participants at my church attend less than every week ... most two or three times a month. Where does that put them (and us) in this analysis?
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==How do they feed their spiritual thirst? They have become their own spiritual general contractors, pulling information and nourishment from a variety of sources.==
Each going their own way:
(Ecc 12:12) And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
(Mar 5:9) And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
(Mat 7:13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
(Joh 10:9) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(Rev 3:20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(2Ti 3:1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2Ti 3:2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(2Ti 3:3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(2Ti 3:4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
(2Ti 3:5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
(2Ti 3:6) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
(2Ti 3:7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
(2Ti 3:8) Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(2Ti 3:9) But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
(2Ti 3:13) But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
(2Pe 3:3) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
(2Pe 3:4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
(2Pe 3:5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
(2Pe 3:6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
(2Pe 3:7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
==...information and nourishment from a variety of sources.==
After all, didn't Jesus say
"Goeth into all the world and teacheth men to liveth as they wish, urging each to pursue and findeth his own path to God.
"Letteth not any one of you maketh another to feel inferior, nor victiminized, because of their beliefs. Above all, I saith unto you, be tolerant, even of those who choose not to follow Me.
"Verily, verily, I saith unto you that what you believe and how you live do not matter, as long as you are pure of heart in your own judgment and might in your pursuits.
"I am a way to God, a truth and just one possible life, and, if you are a good person, you walk that way, that truth, that life, for that is all it takes, and, if you choose not to come to the Father through Me, rather through some other, simply being a good person will enter you into the Kingdom of Heaven regardless of the way you choose.
"Now, goeth forth into all the world to liveth according to the strength and ways of your own conscience, dreams, wishes and vision."
If the Bible is against it, if there are church folks who are worried about it, it can only be good.
==If the Bible is against it, if there are church folks who are worried about it, it can only be good.==
Well, that was most certainly the Devil's message to Eve in the Garden. The Devil is happy that his message is still taken so seriously.
==If the Bible is against it, if there are church folks who are worried about it, it can only be good.==
What's "good"?
==If the Bible is against it, if there are church folks who are worried about it, it can only be good.==
"Thou shalt not murder." The Word of God is against murder.
Soooooo, according to you, if the Word of God is against murder, murder can only be good????
If the Word of God is against adultery, adultery can only be good???? [I'd buy a ticket to see the look on your wife's/husband's face when you tell him/her that.]
reading the Bible says we must also fellowship. t.v. and radio are not particularly interactive.
==reading the Bible says we must also fellowship. t.v. and radio are not particularly interactive.==
However...
(1Jn 1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another...
Teevee and radio can educate and encourage brothers and sisters in Christ, and, so, there is a fellowship there.
Many earnest people seek to reconnect with brick-and-mortar houses of worship only to discover that the experience challenges their faith more than nourishes it. The social dynamic at the congregational level is often rife with bewildering varieties of interpersonal dysfunctions ranging from the harmlessly creepy and annoying to the downright disturbing and destructive.
The impulse to cite 20-odd Bible verses as a means of summing up and dismissing a thoughtfully articulated observation that deserves more serious discussion is off-putting to many people. But it is by no means the worst offense one is likely to encounter inside a church.
==Many earnest people seek to reconnect with brick-and-mortar houses of worship only to discover that the experience challenges their faith more than nourishes it.==
That's because God's House is not made with hands.
==The social dynamic at the congregational level is often rife with bewildering varieties of interpersonal dysfunctions ranging from the harmlessly creepy and annoying to the downright disturbing and destructive.==
We know you're trying to sound academic in order to impress. Translate that for those of us who are not as intelligent as you are.
==The impulse to cite 20-odd Bible verses as a means of summing up and dismissing a thoughtfully articulated observation that deserves more serious discussion is off-putting to many people.==
The impulse to dismiss 20-odd Bible verses as a means of dismissg a thoughtfully-articulated observation that deserves more serious discussion is off-putting to many people, too.
==The impulse to cite 20-odd Bible verses as a means of summing up and dismissing a thoughtfully articulated observation that deserves more serious discussion is off-putting to many people. ==
You don't have to accept our evidence, and we don't have to accept yours. It's a two-way street, dontcha think?
The fact of the matter is that these and other message boards are nothing but ping-pong games. Somebody hits the ball; the other person hits it back. The person hits it back; the other person hits it back. And so on. Oh, well.
"By thy fruits I will know you"
I believe its more how we live His Truth, than where we learn it or whose church we attend.
What good is any of it..if we dont make ourselves His living Word?
If our daily lives arent the best expressions of He who sent US?
=="By thy fruits I will know you"==
Who said THAT?
==...its more how we live His Truth...==
How is that?
Unbowed (A "Jeffersonian" hymn)
Concerning what is sacred, often I'm alone:
Set apart from other men; a sect all my own.
Pious men of good report assume that I've no God
Because the path I've chosen is not the path they trod.
But I have a god—though not the God of most:
No distant king, or vengeful Judge, or angry Lord of Hosts.
The glory of my God is everywhere revealed,
In burning sun, in languid moon, in heaven, sea and field;
In every law which keeps the earth and all things in it bound
The mind of my most gracious God is waiting to be found.
And man—of all God’s creatures—can learn his grand design,
so in the name of nature’s god, I hold this truth divine:
Free each man was born,
And free each man remains
Though he’s beaten and he’s torn,
And weighted down in chains.
In the strength of his convictions
He can stand before the crowd:
His heart beats free
And his head remains unbowed.
For there’s something in a man
That should not be denied—
Though it’s often sacrificed,
And for its sake men have died,
Paying the ultimate price.
Let persecutions come,
Let calumny defame;
The cause of human liberty
Flows onward unrestrained;
Should other voices fail,
I will sing strong and loud:
“My heart beats free!
My head remains unbowed!”
(From the musical play, "First Freedom." )
www.firstfreedomproductions.com
Who said, "By thy fruits I will know you"?
I guess nobody, including the poster who claims it, wants to answer the question, "Who said, 'By thy fruits I will know you'?"
I'm guessing 75% of the participants at my church attend less than every week ... most two or three times a month. Where does that put them (and us) in this analysis?
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.